Buying and Cleaning Woodys

[Johnny Kleso]

I am far from an expert on woodys so if any one can enlighten me please do...

Below is several pics of planes I just won last week..
(drive by gloat)

I was lucky and got this whole lot for $264 delivered

98% of the planes are a very good english maker W. Greenslade Bristol and 98% of the planes are marked with only one owners name Bm (Benjamin) Roberts the other 2% Wm (William) Thomas' name as well This is pretty rare to fine these many one owner planes at least for me

http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/woody/woody-1.jpg

You can se the Hollows and Round planes have been lighty sanded to remove the dirt.. They looked just like the beading planes and after I applied the Bri-Wax and polished the with a cotton cloth.. I think the transformation is stunning..

http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/woody/woody-2.jpg

There are five Beading Planes mostly used by Carpenters not cabinet makers from what I read and three Molding planes used by cabinet makers and carpenters


http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/woody/woody-3.jpg

Home made marking gauges and 2/3s of a Moving Filister Plane Chopped Up and shaped into a rabbit plane..


http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/woody/woody-4.jpg



http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/woody/woody-5.jpg

I'll go over what stamps say ..
All but two planes are stamped
W Greenslade Bristol, England. It was a long-live company
(1828-1937) and one of the last to make wooden planes.

The Smoother is makers Henry Thomas Birmigham and Street Address
Trying plane is unstamped execpt Ohio Tool Co. on blade..

About 1/2 Greenslades are stamped Exhibition Medals London 1862 and Dublin1885 this dates the plane to between 1865 and 1880..

Some have a double stamps that says EJ Griffith's Iron Monger Llanelly on the tail with W Greenslade on the toe.. A monger is a Worker so maybe they just made the blades..

All planes are stamped with owners mark Bm Roberts and 2% with Wm Thomas name as well Roberts..

I have three marking gauges stamped Roberts and just a base of one marked Thomas

http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/woody/woody-6.jpg

Here you can see the Rays of quarter saw Beech I just read in a magazine where it showed what looked like cracks that ran with the grain as beening Rays and also showed Vessels like Mahogany has.. I always thought Rays are the vertical figure you see clear on the first plane, not long horozontal crack like (vessel) lines, that look like the short vessel lines in mahogany...

http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/woody/woody-7.jpg

Here are three modling planes that often go for big $$
These go for about $30-$40 each in this size, wider planes as much as $100 or higher..

http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/woody/woody-8.jpg

Beading plane profiles seen above.. Often the least expensive, about $10-$15 each

http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/woody/woody-9.jpg

Here is the 2 1/2" smoother, when buying woodys you want to make sure there are NO CRACKS (Checks) if possible..

The longer trying plane near begining is the only US made plane and is not owner marked and was full of checks.. The blade had only 1/16" before it was all used up.. It had checks on sole and both ends but not super bad but not worth buying... By looking at the photos of the Trying plane in in pictures at top it looks to be the best condtion plane of the lot as it is not been cleaned.. So remember to make sure you get pics of toe, heel and sole before buying a woody..

All in all I am so happy with these planes and seller inclused the home made making gauges as well..

I just wish these planes could talk :)

Have a good day I did...

[Bob Smalser]

You can se the Hollows and Round planes have been lighty sanded to remove the dirt..

AHHHRRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Never, ever sand an antique except as necessary where you're made a repair...and then only the new wood, not the old. I hope you demanded a big discount because of that.

Use nothing coarser than #0000 steel wool and mineral spirits to clean old wood. You'll hear antique fans talk about oil soap, a coarse sponge and warm water, but I wouldn't apply that to a wooden plane.

Afterwards rub in a light coat of raw tung oil or paste wax to the wood, and that's all these need.

Paint and other goo splatter that doesn't belong can be safely removed using Formby's Refinisher (a trichloroethylene product - wear thick rubber gloves) and #0000 wool. Only if some idiot applied polyurethane will you have to resort to stronger paint strippers.....and in that case I'd probably leave the poly alone.

Of course there are planes and then there are planes, your molders being more important and more valuable than a run-of-the-mill coffin smoother where nobody cares much about historical integrity. But that's only for now. A hundred years from now I'd get hammered for converting all those good originals into spar planes. ;)

[Johnny Kleso]

Bob,
I know you know way more then I..
Does it hurt the plane or just the value?

I'm not one to worry about the value but if it makes the planes warp out of shape more then I would worry..

The planes almost had a fuzzy feel from all the years of dust and just MS they still had his fuzzy feel..

I though if I waxed them they would feel like they had a thick coat of waxed fuzz :)

[Mike Henderson]

Never, ever sand an antique except as necessary where you're made a repair...and then only the new wood, not the old.
I'm interested in why you recommend this, also. Those planes do not seem to be particular rare. When I get an old plane, either wood or metal, I clean it to make it look as close to new as I can get it. I just don't like working with grungy, beat-up tools. If a tool has real historical value it doesn't belong in my shop - it belongs in a museum.

I fall into that same category with furniture. I would never live with ratty old antiques where people won't clean them up or change the dirty upholstery for fear of affecting the value.

Mike

[Bob Smalser]

Does it hurt the plane or just the value?

I though if I waxed them they would feel like they had a thick coat of waxed fuzz :)

What even light sanding does is remove all that priceless age patina that took 80 years to develop beneath the dirt. Why remove more than the dirt anyway? Sanding just makes more work besides ruining the piece's value as an antique.

Then there is the dynamic that if somebody's ignorant enough to sand an antique, they likely also sanded it very badly. Your planes are likely all hard beech, and shouldn't either be fuzzy or show scratch marks. I'd have to see them to recommend where to go from here. Scratch marks across the grain in beech may have to remain there if spot steaming and fine paper won't remove them.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/19850601/320727830.jpg

As a machinist, you can appreciate that the grandson of the late owner of a priceless WWI relic doesn't have a clue how to "clean up" the piece, let alone using hammer, punch and sandpaper. While I can't replace even 20% of the lost value, I can still make out handsomely for myself while providing the family good return on investment.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/19850601/320727233.jpg

[Stephen Shepherd]

I have to agree with Bob.

While these planes may be common now, in one hundred years they will not. They don't make 'antiques' any more. To be an antique it must be 100 years old and 80% original (U.S. Customs standard). But patina is everything and daily use doesn't hurt wooden planes, it helps them keep in good order.

Whether a tool should be used or should be in a museum is a bit of a conundrum for me, as I work in a living history museum, so my common pieces are museum pieces along side my museum pieces.

I do admit that I will wash of grime with soap and water, but without soaking. Also an unsharpened scraper can be passed over surfaces to remove paint spots. I only sand wedges, if necessary and just the part in the body, not the part exposed.

Stephen

[Dave Anderson NH]

I'm in Bob and Stephen's camp on this one. On both of my sets of hollows and rounds and other molding planes I've done nothing more than clean off the grime and crud with mineral spirits and steel wool. The exception to this is after checking the fit of the wedges. If the plane body has shrunk and is too tight, and the wedge mortise is slick and cruddy, I will either use sandpaper wrapped around an appropriately shaped sliver of wood or a plane float to dress it to an appropriate size. This must be done VERY carefull so that the mortise does not become loose. Other than that, all of my attention is spent on getting the iron shaped properly and sharpened for use.

[Robert Rozaieski]

I agree with Bob, Stephen & Dave. I only clean up with 0000 steel wool and mineral spirits. Then they get a coat of Howard Feed-N-Wax which is a blend of beeswax, carnauba wax & orange oil (in a mild solvent base to keep it fluid). The oil/wax blend sits on the wood for 15-20 minutes and then gets wiped off.

Planes start out like this:
92836

And end up like this:
92837

Here's the stuff. I think Formby's make's a similar product. It's made for use after a refinisher.
92838

[Wilbur Pan]

What even light sanding does is remove all that priceless age patina that took 80 years to develop beneath the dirt.

So just to play devil's advocate, why is patina priceless? Isn't that just an aesthetic consideration to some extent?

I would understand more if patina actually played some protective function for the plane. Maybe it does, and I'm just being ignorant here, in which case I'll withdraw the question.

But it seems to me that for hand tools, there seems to be a bit of a dichotomy in the value of patina:

Wooden planes: patina good
Metal planes: patina is disposable
Hand saws: patina good
Chisels: patina is disposable

And just to clarify, I'm not talking just about the functional areas of these tools. I've seen many examples of metal planes where the restoration process removed patina from noncritical areas, such as the sides of the plane as opposed to the sole, or in the case restoring a chisel, cleaning up the shaft of a chisel, away from the cutting edge. And I really do mean patina, not rust.

As far as the value of these planes goes, a new half set of hollows and rounds from Clark & Williams is going for $2455. The only other commercial source I know for 18th century style hollows and rounds is Philly Planes in the UK, at £120 for a matched pair, which converts to about $2150 for a half set at today's exchange rates. I've seen used/antique matched half sets of hollows and rounds sell for around $500, with one set with an asking price of $1200. (That one doesn't seem to be selling.) As long as the prices of used wooden planes continues to be well below that of new ones, I'm not sure that the value of old wooden planes is as high as we might think.

[Robert Rozaieski]

So just to play devil's advocate, why is patina priceless? Isn't that just an aesthetic consideration to some extent?

I'll take a stab at this, but keep in mind this is my own opinion and I am by no means an expert. Also, keep in mind, I care not about collector value. No collector will ever want my tools since 1) I use them, they never just sit on a shelf, 2) none of my tools are rare or particularly valuable as I can't afford to purchase this variety and 3) most of my tools were already way below collector value when I bought them and no amount of restoration will make them desireable to a collector.

In my opinion, the arguement not to overdo metal planes, saws, chisels, etc. is pure an issue of collector value so I say clean them to look like new if that's what you want and and you plan to use them. If you want them as collector pieces, then don't touch them. Of course, with truly rare collector pieces like antique furniture, guns, truly rare tools, etc., I'm all in favor of leaving them alone as you will likely do more harm than good, as Bob pointed out above.

Now, with wooden planes, my motives are slightly different. Collector value isn't a big issue unless you have something truly rare or in pristine, unused condition, in which case, the price will likely dissuade you from buying it in the first place. For user grade tools, I still try not to overdo the cleaning. Any time you expose fresh wood of anything old and made of wood (furniture, tools, etc.) you open it up to additional moisture ingress and potential movement. The patina on the outside of planes is accumulated oils from workers' hands and also the burnished surface of the wood from decades of handling. When you plane or sand these surfaces you remove these and expose fresh wood. This allows the potential for additional wood movement. Note I said potential. I have no scientific evidence to say that this will happen, but it could. With wooden planes, movement of the stock can ruin the useability of the tool. With metal tools, movement can still occur but is less of an issue as it is less pronounced. Maybe, it's not that big of an issue with wooden planes either, but I like to play it safe as I want to be able to use them for a long time. I don't even like to flatten the soles of my wooden planes for the same reason unless they really need it. If I do, I apply a heavy coat of wax to the sole and let it sit for a few weeks before I touch it in case it moves. Again, maybe I'm overly cautious but I don't want to ruin the useability of the tool.

[Stephen Shepherd]

Wilbur,

That is a very good observation, here is a correlative, talking of old things:

Brass Musical Instruments the patina is polished away
Wooden Stringed instruments keep the patina

Antique Silver objects are polished bright
Antique wooden furniture should not

You treat the wooden handle of an old saw differently than you threat the blade, at least I do.

I have no problem removing rust from tools, that is not patina, and I have no issues with restoring the metal to original bright or blued condition as this will preserve the blade and make it easier to use. This is probably a whole other topic.

Stephen

[Bob Smalser]

So just to play devil's advocate, why is patina priceless? Isn't that just an aesthetic consideration to some extent?


1) Because on wood patina has a glow about it that can't be easily faked like it can on steel. Collector value involves a heckuva lot more than what it will sell for today. On steel it's just hard, rubbed-out rust duplicated to perfection daily today by the makers of antique black powder reproductions. I can teach you how to do it in 10 minutes.

2) Those that don't understand are more likely to mess up an antique more important than a molding plane.

3) Those tools will outlive you, and any sense of propriety handling objects of importance no longer made should make you feel you owe something to the next owner. Tools unimportant now will have a different value a hundred years from now, and if you like this kind of history you should be thinking further ahead than the end of your nose. But junk glues and building things than can easily be repaired is a problem with modern woodworking, too....isn't it?


While I modify old coffin smoothers regularly to suit my purposes, I've never had one this nice and would preserve this one as an original:

http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/woody/woody-9.jpg

[Mike K Wenzloff]

Hmm, all interesting I suppose.

One factor not mentioned when talking antiques is whether it is a product made by the bazillions and commingly available. Greenslade is one such maker. An incredibly easy maker to find in the wild.

Even Bob's example of patching mouths is an anathema to collectors. Same with making a saw blade bright, repairing the horns on a saw, gluing cracks in handles, repairing/replacing jappaning on metal planes, etc.

It is to a great extent a personal line to draw that may not be applicable to everyone--anything one might do will raise the hackles of someone somewhere.

My personal line is pretty non-existent. There are few exceptions amongst the vintage tools I own. I clean, polish, grind blades that are now too wide to fit and or widen the escapment at will. Nothing anyone says or writes will change that fact.

My personal exceptions include a few 18th century planes and a couple saws from that era. I did what I consider a minimum amount of work on them. But I do use them and a couple are extremel rare. They are tools to be used.

Talk about honoring the past, aside from being a relatively modern sentiment, honoring the past includes using the dang things. Our "ancestors" wouldn't understand our modern idea of honor as not using them. Of course, they probably wouldn't understand the relatively modern idea of making a tool look better than new or putting such effort into the tools we buy as many do, either.

So RB, I think the onus is on you to decide what you will for these tools and stay true to that.

Take care, Mike

[Mike Henderson]

Talk about honoring the past, aside from being a relatively modern sentiment, honoring the past includes using the dang things. Our "ancestors" wouldn't understand our modern idea of honor as not using them.
Mike's statement pretty much sums up my feelings. The things I do to clean up an old tool are just part of the life of that tool, the same as whatever the person who used it 100 years ago did to it when they were using it. To me, they are TOOLS and not museum items. Tools wear out if used - and I buy older tools to use. And the reason I buy the older tool is because it's less expensive than a new one. People like me will be priced out of the market as soon as the tools become rare enough and desirable enough that people are willing to pay more than a new tool for them.

There's a limit to preservation. Should we preserve every iPod made today because one day it might be an antique?

I'll also point out that when someone buys a tool, they own it and can do whatever they want with it.

Mike

[I would challenge each of you to give value to your old tools by using them to make something. For example, I can imagine someone saying, "This old tool was used by Sam Maloof to build his rockers. It's pretty worn out but it means a lot to me."]

[Peter Quadarella]

I'm having a hard time placing a WWI era S&W with a shrouded extractor rod, but I'm not a very serious collector. However, showing that picture reminds of the constant contention with gun owners between those who keep "safe queens" and those who prefer to use their old guns. I have to say that unless you are purely collecting, or unless your item is so rare that you may damage something unique in the world, I'd much prefer to get real use out of the item. These things were made to be used as tools, not to sit on a shelf, in my opinion.

[Bob Smalser]

I'm having a hard time placing a WWI era S&W with a shrouded extractor rod, but I'm not a very serious collector. However, showing that picture reminds of the constant contention with gun owners between those who keep "safe queens" and those who prefer to use their old guns. I have to say that unless you are purely collecting, or unless your item is so rare that you may damage something unique in the world, I'd much prefer to get real use out of the item. These things were made to be used as tools, not to sit on a shelf, in my opinion.

It's a First Model Hand Ejector .44 (Triple Lock) pulled out of commercial stock, converted to .455 Webley and provided to the UK in 1914 on an emergency basis at the beginning of WWI. Only 6000 were made, and few survived. Later models shipped to Britain lacked the TL feature. A rare and valuable revolver when you consider a revolver of similar age....now called the Smith Model 10 and all its variants now top 10 million in production.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/19850601/326446101.jpg

Here you can see the features unique to triple locks.....the ball detent in the face of the crane and its corresponding notch in the frame beneath the shroud. You can also see the spring-loaded ejector rod catch protruding from the tip of the shroud.

And if you think buggering the barrel pin and the surrounding area around the frame is normal and honest wear and tear, I have this bridge you should look at. Not the least of which is he tried to drive the pin out from the wrong direction. Hence an example for a machinist.

[Joe Cunningham]

Our "ancestors" wouldn't understand our modern idea of honor as not using them. Of course, they probably wouldn't understand the relatively modern idea of making a tool look better than new or putting such effort into the tools we buy as many do, either.

Take care, Mike

Not sure I can agree with this idea that modern cultures are unique in this respect.

In another life, I was an archaeologist and one of the things that always struck me was the number of *ancient* tools we would find with absolutely zero evidence of use. None. Usually they were, aesthetically, the most impressive tools as well, often fashioned with a level of craftsmanship that most would find hard to duplicate today. Sometimes we would find them in more recent levels without any evidence of bioturbation (critters moving dirt around) and on sites with no other evidence of the originating time period. How'd they get there? One idea is that the more recent cultures actually recognized (and collected) the older, high quality tools. They recognized quality when they saw it, and often times the more recent group did not possess the skill level to duplicate that quality.

Humans have been collecting pretty tools for a very long time.

[Mike K Wenzloff]

Not sure I can agree with this idea that modern cultures are unique in this respect.

In another life, I was an archaeologist and one of the things that always struck me was the number of *ancient* tools we would find with absolutely zero evidence of use. None. Usually they were, aesthetically, the most impressive tools as well, often fashioned with a level of craftsmanship that most would find hard to duplicate today. Sometimes we would find them in more recent levels without any evidence of bioturbation (critters moving dirt around) and on sites with no other evidence of the originating time period. How'd they get there? One idea is that the more recent cultures actually recognized (and collected) the older, high quality tools. They recognized quality when they saw it, and often times the more recent group did not possess the skill level to duplicate that quality.

Humans have been collecting pretty tools for a very long time.
Perhaps. But there is another explanation (and probably more). That is there have been "exhibition" tools made at least since the 1700s. Likely, by extrapolation, the wealthy may have commissioned and or bought such tools back much further.

But, the Greenslade planes you and I will ever likely see are not of the sort. The objects of RB's thread.

The working stiff's tools, the real user of tools, are those people I do not believe would understand--and they likely didn't then *if* there are tools which never saw use as you say. I know I have never seen pictures of such tools. Really well preserved woodworking tools (the point of my statement) I have seen pictures of are definitely used. Others (the vast majority) are so decaded that it would be impossible to determine use.

Williamsburg once found axe heads in wells. Well preserved. Beautiful examples. The smiths recreated them in every detail. That's when the users of the recreated versions found they weren't worth a crud. Most likely why they were tossed into the well to begin with. So just because a good example is found, it doesn't mean they were "collected" and preserved for posterity because they were great tools.

Unless, of course, you also found written evidence it was so. Else it is daydreaming on the part of the archaeologists. Doesn't mean it isn't true, but it does mean in lieu of written record, all else is a guess.

Take care, Mike

[Peter Quadarella]

I think those were built with .455 chambers and barrels as opposed to truly converted, but yes the triple lock design is considered by many to be the best revolver design of all time (more of a relation to than an ancestor of the Model 10). (Edit: I couldn't resist and looked more into this - it looks like a small number of these were actually converted (~700?) and the rest were built that way) It didn't occur to me to see one on a woodworking forum, very nice! :D

However, I still think I would feel a great urge to take 'er for a test drive if I owned one myself, even moreso if it were a .44 triple lock (an even more valuable variant, although not as rare). Besides I'm not geared up to reload .455 ;). You only live once!

There are different schools of thought on this, but wouldn't it be nice to have a beautiful collection of planes or whatever one collects, and be able to say you've made shavings with each and every one? I guess the point is, we could go around in circles on this all day, and at the end of the day, everyone collects/purchases/gathers things for their own reasons.

[Ray Gardiner]

Everyone will have a different take on this, but my view is that old tools should be restored to usable condition.

That is the condition that a good craftsman would maintain his tools in.

I realize that this may reduce "value" in some circumstances, but I think value is really a question of perspective. I wouldn't polish the brass back of a saw to a mirror finish, (well ok, I have done in the past. but now I know better. :rolleyes:) but a good clean and scrub is ok.

As far as the planes, I would restore them to usable condition, sharpen, tune up, polish, what ever it takes to get to a good usable condition.

If you feel unhappy about using a dirty grungy tool, then you should clean it to the level you feel happy about using.

There is a place for museum pieces, and they are a vital part of our history, but history is as much the story of how things are used, not just artifacts frozen at some arbitrary point in time.

Let's skip forward 100 years and look back at these planes, the future woodworker/historian will no doubt appreciate the fact that someone, valued these tools sufficiently to restore them and use them, possibly citing this instance as an example of how early 21st Century woodworkers, cared about recapturing hand crafted woodworking tools and techniques from a earlier time.


Regards
Ray

[Ganthan Rhodes]

Johnny, I think you can take comfort in a few things:

* The woodies cost you less than $10 apiece.
* You like the way they look after you cleaned them up.
* In 100 years when they become scarce, they'll have 100 years worth of patina on them.

I love reading threads on restoration and refurbishment techniques, probably because many people are very passionate in their opinions.

GR

[Wilbur Pan]

Interesting replies, all.

I'm left with the impression that the "value" of patina is still a bit arbitrary if you look at the tool from a functional standpoint. You could just as easily determine that having a plane in as new condition as possible is the desired outcome, which would mean removing patina as it develops. It would also imply that the value of a well used plane with patina would be higher in the collector's market than the same plane in mint condition.

In fact, one could argue that if you are interested in preserving the plane for historic reasons, removing the patina would be warranted if it is obscuring the maker's or owner's mark on the plane, or making it difficult to determine how the plane was made or used in some other manner.

It still seems to me that disparity in prices between new and used wooden planes is a sign that most antique wooden planes may not be as valuable as we may think.

[Greg Stanford]

When I was in college I went w/ a friend to an estate sale. I had no money to spend, I was purely a tag along. We walked through the house & looked around & somebody mentioned there was more "in the shop". Turns out the fellow had been a woodworker. He'd spent years collecting & using tools, the shop was clean & organized & obviously something that he'd cared about & been proud of. It struck me as very sad that nobody valued that life, the tools were sold off, dissipated, he was just gone.

So I think about that guy when I buy tools, I clean 'em up, sharpen, & use them but I like that I can see & sometimes feel where they've been used before. I dont want to erase that person, that past.

I dont see any value in making an old tool look like a new tool, but that's just me.

g

[Bob Smalser]

Wonder how many things worth small change 50 years ago will pay half a year's tuition today?

And when ya sand em boys, be sure to go across the grain like my example. And don't bother cleaning them with 4-ought and solvent first - you'll clog up 4 times the quantity of paper you would otherwise, so be sure and use a coarser paper to prevent that.

Another mark of a craftsman is he knows when to stop.

[Johnny Kleso]

Its a Happy Day :)

I had asked Seller if he was related Bm Roberts or knew any info of these planes..
Turnes out he is a collector of Civil War stuff and I this is what he sent...


The tools were a gift from Paul Roberts of Gardner St. in Plymouth, Luzerne Co., PA.
He gave them to my wife and me as a gift for helping him clean his basement before moving to a nursing facility. He had a second set, which he gave to a nephew.
The tools belonged to a Paul's grandfather, Benjamin Roberts, born Apr 1841. He was a carpenter by trade.
Paul Roberts passed away 5 Sep 2007 at the age of 86. (His great-grandfather was the magistrate in Plymouth for many years.)


I seen the Beading planes and thought carpenter tools and Beaders have more waer than H&R so this makes sense... I wanted to think they came from a cabinet maker but this is more info than I thought I would get...


As I look back this thread reminds me very much to my first posts several years ago when I just started refinishing metal planes..

It strikes me that it has been a long time since I seen a strong discussion on patina on metal planes, I dont think I'll be changing opinions on cleaning wood planes though :)

Cleaning wood is not like cleaning metal and re-japanning..

In my mind these planes where full years of heavy basement dirt / coal furnace dust as the patina was more black in color than brown..
I should have tested cleaning one first with MS but thought it would just set the black dust in to the wood pores..

When I test and cleaning the Molding and Beading planes and post the pictures when I am done..

Thanks all for your opinions, I appreciate them much...

[Mike K Wenzloff]

Wonder how many things worth small change 50 years ago will pay half a year's tuition today?
Hasn't that always been true, Bob?

The trick is in the guessing what people will be buying 50 or more years down the road. I mean, there are plenty of rare woodworking tools that go for dirt prices in comparision to relatively non-rare items simply because some yokels decide they have greater value.

But you probably have a much better guesser than I have. Therefore, I won't worry about so-called value and use the tools I own, clean them to please me, etc. Including the molding plane I own that is older than our country, the saws and other planes darn near as old. Might as well. Collectors decided these items have less value than younger widgets. Guess they have a better picker than I have, too.

And when ya sand em boys, be sure to go across the grain like my example. And don't bother cleaning them with 4-ought and solvent first - you'll clog up 4 times the quantity of paper you would otherwise, so be sure and use a coarser paper to prevent that.
Witty retort. Especially seeing how no one here has espoused such a thing. I seem to recall you praising RB for other restorations. Hmm...

Another mark of a craftsman is he knows when to stop.
Yes, quite.

Take care, Mike

[Wilbur Pan]

Wonder how many things worth small change 50 years ago will pay half a year's tuition today?


Hasn't that always been true, Bob?

The trick is in the guessing what people will be buying 50 or more years down the road. I mean, there are plenty of rare woodworking tools that go for dirt prices in comparision to relatively non-rare items simply because some yokels decide they have greater value.

Amen to that. If investing in future antiques were that easy, I would be retired by now given the awesome comic book collection I amassed in the 80's. As it is, I'm still working. I sold the collection in the 90's for a decent amount, and looking at the current prices for some of the titles I had, I would have done just as well to contribute to my 401(k).

(And it was an awesome comic book collection, including 1st printings of all four issues of the Dark Knight Returns. A set goes for about $500-1000 depending on how much of a sucker you are, still nowhere near half a year's tuition.)

[Greg Stanford]

After my Grandmother died, my Father & I were up cleaning out her house. My Brother showed up, looks around & says "I thought Grandma never had much money." My Dad says "Well she didn't." Brother says " How'd she afford all these antiques?"

g

[James Mittlefehldt]

Many moons ago when I was young I used to hang out at auction sales with my dad, and in the late sixties or so, one hot ticket item was those mass produced oak pedestal tables made around the turn of the twentieth century. They routinely went for $100 at the time which was pretty expensive.

Every one was buying those and now they seldom go for much more than that, and on a bad day not even that much.

Another item was those old pine blanket boxes, and there was a cottage industry of people stripping off all that nasty old paint and showing the nice knotty pine. Well the nasty painted ones when you find them are worth a lot more than the refinished ones.

My point, not sure I have one just that I enjoyed thinking back to those aution sales and that very few who thought that they knew then what the future fortunes would be were seldom right.

[Johnny Kleso]

Wilbur,

In the 90's I to got caught up in the crazy or Comic Books and Baseball cards as there was Shows all over the plane every weekend in the ATL area..

I see now that I would be lucky to sell loose cards by the pound and might have problems selling the star cards.. I am almost to the point of just trashing several boxes just to make room as it not worth to sell a box 3,500 cards for $10 and ship them.. I'd just ratter trash the $100-$200 I spent on them than sell'em