Done With Forrest

[Brian Knop]

:mad:I sent in my woodwork II back to Forrest for sharpening. In the past when I would get the blade back it would leave a cut as smooth as a baby’s bottom. When I got this blade back its cutting quality is like any 10 to 20 dollar through away blade you get in any hardware store. It leaves saw marks on the wood. I Emailed them complaining about the sharpening job that was done. That was 2 weeks ago and still no response from them. I will not be using there service or purchasing anymore saw blades from them. The quality service in this country is really going downhill!

[Brad Noble]

>>The quality service in this country is really going downhill!<<

Whoa now. Lets not declare the entire country to be of this caliber. I have used Freud a few times in the past and was very happy with the results and I know of a couple of guys on this and other forums that offer sharpening services and are highly regarded by those members who have used them.

Along those same lines, I have a WWII blade by Forrest and I have never been impressed by the job it does. YMMV.

Brad

[Scott Haddix]

I also had a bad experience with Forrest recently, two actually. I bought a new blade and lost a tooth after only a few passes of 3/4" red oak. After multiple calls and emails, I finally got a response and they said to send them back the blade (at my cost) with a copy of the email from them saying to replace it rather than fix it and they'd replace it with a new blade. (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=785463#poststop)

At that point I was satisfied they'd at least addressed my complaint adequately. What I got back from them was NOT a new blade, it was either my original blade back with the tooth brazed back (which I'd told them I did not want) or a refurbished blade from someone else. It had clearly seen use. At that point, I just kept it and use it, but won't be going back to them for another blade.

[Jay Jolliffe]

If your done with Forrest what are you going to use now...I have 3 Forrest blades that are still sharp so when I need to change what brand would you use instead.

[jerry nazard]

If your done with Forrest what are you going to use now...I have 3 Forrest blades that are still sharp so when I need to change what brand would you use instead.

Jay,

I have a Freud Premier Fusion - it is a very good blade, similar to the WWII.

-Jerry

[Bruce Benjamin]

Infinity has sure treated me right with all of the blades and bits they've sold me.

Bruce

[CPeter James]

Try Ridge Carbide. John and his people are some of the best in the sharpening and saw blade business. I have both Ridge and Forrest and Ridge is much sharper and when I get them back from sharpening, they are better than new.

CPeter
http://www.ridgecarbidetool.com/

[Bruce Page]

I have two WWII blades and love them both. I’ll let you know if my opinion changes after the next sharpening.
It is inexcusable not to return your email.

[Jeff Duncan]

I can see having a bad experience and going off somewhere else, but I wouldn't lump the whole country into the your gripe. I personally have over a dozen Forrest blades and about a dozen other manufacturers blades. I have had many, many sharpenings done over the last 10 years. I send them in 6 at a time. In the many dozens of sharpenings I only had one small problem and it was taken care of quickly.
Unfortunately these days people expect everyone to be perfect, and when they're not, and they don't get an immediate response to an e-mail, they go off the deep end.
I suggest picking up the phone on Monday and calling them. Then if you still don't get your problem resolved, at least you'll have a legitimate reason to complain.
There are other blades that cut as good as the Forrest, but I haven't used any that cut better. And the cheaper blades I have cut better after Forrest sharpened them than they did new.
that's my experience anyway,
JeffD

[Brian Knop]

Sorry but I do not not see why I should have to jump through hoops, by spending alot of time on the phone trying to get them to do what they should have done in the first place. As for which saw blades I will be buying, I 'll have to do a little resreach. Does anyone know, has Forrest changed hands or something. They use to do great work.

[Bruce Benjamin]

I have two WWII blades and love them both. I’ll let you know if my opinion changes after the next sharpening.
It is inexcusable not to return your email.

Judging by the number of complaints on this and other WW forums, a company not answering an email isn't all that uncommon. Even this forum's, "Darling", a company that starts with an, "F" failed to respond to my one and only email to them.

I just don't understand why a company would bother to put up an email address for correspondence if they aren't going to answer every email. If they aren't going to have time to at least briefly answer every email then they should probably just not offer an email address at all. For a busy company that's overworked and understaffed it is understandable that they sometimes don't have time to type out a long and detailed response for every email received. But even just a note acknowledging the receipt of the customer's email and instructions to call them on the phone would be helpful.

On the flip side of that...I understand people are busy these days but when they don't get an answer to their email(s) why not just pick up the phone and call them? Too busy to call? C'mon! You mean you can't find 5 or 10 minutes during the whole week to make a phone call? That must be some busy life you're living that you don't even get a single break all week.:rolleyes:;) Just about every company has a phone number and most are toll free. The only company I know of that doesn't have a phone number is Wixey. But in their favor, the 2 or 3 emails I've sent to them were promptly responded to by Barry Wixey himself.

But one thing that I've seen quite a few times on this forum is that it's not always the fault of the company. Many times the email, (either the original or the reply) is unintentionally diverted to a spam folder and the intended recipient never even realizes it's there. It's especially bad when a person gets all bent out of shape and tells everyone on the WW forum that company XYZ has lousy customer service and then it turns out that the reply from the company is sitting in the customer's spam folder.:eek:

It seems that these sort of threads are becoming so common that it's like complaining that the clerk at the grocery store was rude to you or they accidentally charged you twice for that can of soup. It's not supposed to happen but it does more and more often. It seems that before it literally becomes an international incident they should just pick up the phone and at least try to call the company. Then if you don't get through to them or get the satisfaction you want this is the place to vent.

Bruce

[scott spencer]

It's very possible that either they didn't receive your email, or that their response was blocked. Hate to see you write them off if they haven't really ignored your complaint. I've give them the benefit of a phone call first.

[Mike Heidrick]

Sorry but I do not not see why I should have to jump through hoops, by spending alot of time on the phone trying to get them to do what they should have done in the first place.

You do not see why you should??? Go out and look at your blade and the cut it is making.

[Greg Sznajdruk]

Most companies today hire a firm to create their web site and as a matter of routine they include an e-mail address to contact the company. I’ve come to the conclusion that most of these companies do not check their e-mails at all.

I’ve sent follow-up e-mails asking why they have an e-mail address if they never check the e-mails. Normally I don’t get an answer to this e-mail either. I would appear that the person who checks e-mails is someone who has other responsibilities more important than responding to e-mails. In my experience if you have to register with the site to ask a question what you will get is a lot of spam.

I always get better results from suppliers who include a phone number.

My .02

Greg

[Bruce Page]

Judging by the number of complaints on this and other WW forums, a company not answering an email isn't all that uncommon. Even this forum's, "Darling", a company that starts with an, "F" failed to respond to my one and only email to them.

I just don't understand why a company would bother to put up an email address for correspondence if they aren't going to answer every email. If they aren't going to have time to at least briefly answer every email then they should probably just not offer an email address at all. For a busy company that's overworked and understaffed it is understandable that they sometimes don't have time to type out a long and detailed response for every email received. But even just a note acknowledging the receipt of the customer's email and instructions to call them on the phone would be helpful.

On the flip side of that...I understand people are busy these days but when they don't get an answer to their email(s) why not just pick up the phone and call them? Too busy to call? C'mon! You mean you can't find 5 or 10 minutes during the whole week to make a phone call? That must be some busy life you're living that you don't even get a single break all week.:rolleyes:;) Just about every company has a phone number and most are toll free. The only company I know of that doesn't have a phone number is Wixey. But in their favor, the 2 or 3 emails I've sent to them were promptly responded to by Barry Wixey himself.

But one thing that I've seen quite a few times on this forum is that it's not always the fault of the company. Many times the email, (either the original or the reply) is unintentionally diverted to a spam folder and the intended recipient never even realizes it's there. It's especially bad when a person gets all bent out of shape and tells everyone on the WW forum that company XYZ has lousy customer service and then it turns out that the reply from the company is sitting in the customer's spam folder.:eek:

It seems that these sort of threads are becoming so common that it's like complaining that the clerk at the grocery store was rude to you or they accidentally charged you twice for that can of soup. It's not supposed to happen but it does more and more often. It seems that before it literally becomes an international incident they should just pick up the phone and at least try to call the company. Then if you don't get through to them or get the satisfaction you want this is the place to vent.

Bruce

Bruce, contrary to what you may have read into my post, up to this point, I have always been very happy with Forrest products and their sharpening service.

You raise a good point about spam filters. My email software moves spam into a separate folder and tells me when it does so.

[Frank Drew]

I've never used Forrest blades so don't have a dog in this fight, but you've got to wonder about Scott's experience involving two service errors (tooth comes off -- I've never seen that -- and then they sent him back a used blade after promising a new one.)

But as an example of responsiveness: I got an e-mail today from someone at New Balance asking if I was happy with the pair of shoes I'd recently bought online; I was in a good mood so I replied that I've been very happy with their products in general and that I'd recently noticed that several other guys in the ER I work in also wore their shoes. Within an hour -- and this is today, Saturday -- I got a return email thanking me for my remarks.

So it can be done.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Jay,

I have a Freud Premier Fusion - it is a very good blade, similar to the WWII.

-Jerry

Ditto. Just got one (std kerf 1/8") and it's the nuts!!! As my other blades die off I'll be getting another for sure.
.

[Bruce Benjamin]

Bruce, contrary to what you may have read into my post, up to this point, I have always been very happy with Forrest products and their sharpening service.

You raise a good point about spam filters. My email software moves spam into a separate folder and tells me when it does so.

Bruce, I was really just replying to your comment that it is inexcusable for a company to not return an email. While I agree that it's very annoying and a bad business practice, it seems so common that if we write off every company that ignores an email then we will be writing off a lot of companies. I suppose it just a matter of what your tolerance level is. It varies with me. It's just like with a restaurant. Would you rather go to one with great food but horrible service or one with great service but mediocre food? Sometimes I'll put up with bad service to get the great product but I almost always end up sort of ticked off even if I like what I got. Other times I'll tell them to $%#^ off and I'll take my money elsewhere. This example applies to both restaurants and tool companies.

My Gmail account doesn't tell me when it sends spam to the spam folder but it's so amazingly accurate that I have all but given up on checking it before I delete it. I sometimes get dozens of spam emails a day on that account and in the couple of years I've had it I think I've only missed 2 or 3 emails I was waiting for. And I rarely get more than one spam message a day that slips past the filter into my inbox. My Outlook Express account uses Norten and it does very briefly tell me when something goes to the spam file. But I hardly ever use that account anymore since Gmail works so well.

Bruce

[Ken Fitzgerald]

It's amazing what Spam Filters can and will do!

The past couple of weeks I've been receiving as many as 30-50 pieces of spam each day.

Today a fellow Creeker sent me an email with some information about inside-out turning. The Spam filter through that into the Junk mail file. If I hadn't been expecting it, it would have deleted after 7 days. Whew!

[Phil Thien]

But as an example of responsiveness: I got an e-mail today from someone at New Balance asking if I was happy with the pair of shoes I'd recently bought online; I was in a good mood so I replied that I've been very happy with their products in general and that I'd recently noticed that several other guys in the ER I work in also wore their shoes. Within an hour -- and this is today, Saturday -- I got a return email thanking me for my remarks.

So it can be done.

+1 on that. I've corresponded w/ NB via E-Mail. They respond quickly. Shoes made in U.S.A., too. Great company.

[Ken Tucker]

Hello . not to change the subject but what does it cost to have a 10" blade sharpened ,and will they sharpen most any blade make ?

[howard s hanger]

This is a basic question. I haven't been using my blade long enough to have it sharpened. How do you know when it's time? I'm cutting a lot of 8/4 maple and purple heart these days so what's reasonable?

Howard

[Clifford Mescher]

A friend in my WW club lost tooth on a Forrest WWll blade. He had bad experience over the phone and billing dept. Clifford

[Ray Newman]

About two weeks ago, Forrest returned my sharpened WW II blade which also needed 7 tips replaced as I hit a hidden nail.

Turn around time was about 8-10 days (WA ST to NJ & back) & the blade is like new....

[Per Swenson]

Everybody has a opinion, I have one also.

In the age of internet communication with out, ya know

actual human interaction, like the telephone.

All it takes to ruin a companys good reputation is Joey

down in the sharpening shop, hung over on Monday morning,

or just having a real bad day, like his goldfish died, I dunno,

then sending out 5 bad blades to the same people who post on internet forums.

Come on don't tell me this combination of events is not hard to imagine.

Folks I am not defending Forrest here, but I am suggesting that

you call first and vent to the company like the disgruntled customer

you are. And rightly so. Then and only then, if satisfaction is not obtained

would it be justified to equate said company with Satan's spawn.

The internet and this forum in particular is a powerful tool for both

building and destroying reputations. I would consider that before

metaphorically speaking, bringing a family disagreement down to

Clancy's woodworking bar on a Saturday night.:D

Per

[Clifford Mescher]

Favorable opinions, unfavorable opinions and indifferent opinions, that is what forums are about? No? Clifford

[Per Swenson]

Of course Clifford,

But the point of a opinion and to share it

is to sway the reader.

I am merely suggesting that a opinion backed up with

due diligence carries much more weight.

I am not going to beat around the bush here.

The title of this Thread "Done with Forrest"

is a unfinished headline with the subtext of,

"and you should be also."

If the thread then continued, I called Ted Rogozinski at

Forrest, he is the Vice president in charge, and Ted told me to take a leap,

then by all means, be done with Forrest and tell us exactly why.

By the way Ted answers the phone, here is his number. 973-473-5236.

Per
PS
I have no idea why the type changed:confused:

[Jim Becker]

Please note that I'm not responding relative to Forrest on this, but as a general commentary on the "email" discussion.

I'm in the contact center solutions business (my employer has over 40% global market share in this category) and can speak with some authority around the very real issue with trying to work with many companies via email. Unless you have an address for an individual, you unfortunately have a real good chance of not getting a timely response when you attempt to use that method for contact, even though it's 2008 and email is somewhat ubiquitous. It drives me nuts, too, since I'm personally very email and web oriented relative to commerce. The reason for the issue? A general email box is often not monitored on a regular basis. It may not even be monitored by the same department/people that monitor the phones. This truly is a serious business problem these days and one that does have solutions from any number of vendors. Way too many businesses, however, are still very voice centric in their customer service operations and fail to realize that there can be seriously good return on investment when they opt to handle all modalities of communication with equal priority and effectiveness.

So if you do run into this issue...and we all do way to often...consider telling them via phone or snail mail of your dissatisfaction with being a second class citizen when you try to contact them via a published email address!

[Ron Dunn]

Per, what browser are you using?

Your posts in any forum are always very narrow and double-spaced ... much more difficult to read.

[Clifford Mescher]

I agree that "titles" can be inflammatory. They can set a tone from the very beginning. Clifford

[Bruce Wrenn]

About two weeks ago, Forrest returned my sharpened WW II blade which also needed 7 tips replaced as I hit a hidden nail.

Turn around time was about 8-10 days (WA ST to NJ & back) & the blade is like new....I too hit something with my WWII. It was one of those staples that hold a SKU tag on. I can cut one in half with my pocket knife. Blade had less than a half hour running time on it. Lost FIVE teeth. After Forrest's repair and double sharpening charges, along with freight, a new blade was competitive. Sent a damaged blade to Dynamic Saw, and their sharpening / repair charges were much more reasonable. (This wasn't my blade, but a friends.) Personally I find Forrest to be way over rated. If their blades cost less, most probably wouldn't buy them. I have yet to see a production shop in my area running Forrest blades. Mostly they cater to hobbiest, who are willing to spend more than necessary, just so they can say they did.

[Per Swenson]

Sorry Ron,

It has nothing to do with my browser.

Its my peculiar way of typing.

Per™

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Everybody has a opinion, I have one also.

In the age of internet communication with out, ya know

actual human interaction, like the telephone.

All it takes to ruin a companys good reputation is Joey

down in the sharpening shop, hung over on Monday morning,

or just having a real bad day, like his goldfish died, I dunno,

then sending out 5 bad blades to the same people who post on internet forums.

Come on don't tell me this combination of events is not hard to imagine.

Folks I am not defending Forrest here, but I am suggesting that

you call first and vent to the company like the disgruntled customer

you are. And rightly so. Then and only then, if satisfaction is not obtained

would it be justified to equate said company with Satan's spawn.

The internet and this forum in particular is a powerful tool for both

building and destroying reputations. I would consider that before

metaphorically speaking, bringing a family disagreement down to

Clancy's woodworking bar on a Saturday night.:D

Per

Per,

I agree completely. Take it to the company first and don't count on email getting the communication done.


But I have a bone to pick.....my name ain't Clancy and this ain't no bar!:D

[Per Swenson]

And you are no metaphor either

Per™:D

[Chris Barnett]

Hopefully a lot more folks will drop Forrest. Then perhaps the price will drop again and I can pickup a third WWII. Made a big mistake not ordering one that showed up in my cart at $73 :(. Really love mine...even after cutting through a hardened screw....ouch that hurt....broke some carbide and it still beats any of my other blades. Guess its ok as long as I don't have to send it in for sharpening.

[Tim Morton]

Sorry but I do not not see why I should have to jump through hoops, by spending alot of time on the phone trying to get them to do what they should have done in the first place. As for which saw blades I will be buying, I 'll have to do a little resreach. Does anyone know, has Forrest changed hands or something. They use to do great work.


I wonder when "making a phone call" turned into jumping thu hoops?:confused::confused:

per Per:

call Ted Rogozinski at

Forrest, he is the Vice president in charge, and Ted told me to take a leap,

then by all means, be done with Forrest and tell us exactly why.

By the way Ted answers the phone, here is his number. 973-473-5236.

[Ron Dunn]

Why is it so popular to beat up on Brian? He got a defective product and an unsatisfactory response. He made the effort the first time around. After that, in my opinion, he is entitled to complain publicly about bad service.

I give a company one chance to resolve a problem. After that, we're no longer on good terms. Thankfully, the number of times I've had to make that decision have been rare.

[Per Swenson]

Why is it so popular to beat up on Brian? He got a defective product and an unsatisfactory response. He made the effort the first time around. After that, in my opinion, he is entitled to complain publicly about bad service.

I give a company one chance to resolve a problem. After that, we're no longer on good terms. Thankfully, the number of times I've had to make that decision have been rare.


No, its not popular to beat up on Brian. I don't think we are

a collection of bullys. I am suggesting that the one chance you give

a company should not be left to the vagary's of one e-mail.

To quote Brian himself, "I Emailed them complaining about the sharpening job that was done. That was 2 weeks ago and still no response from them."

He never talked to a human. Thats my point.

And here is the kinda guy I am, I use Forrest products.

My name is on their website somewhere as a satisfied user.

Now, If Brian had reported here that he talked to a human and the issue was not resolved to his or anyones satisfaction.

I would take it upon my self to give Ron a call and discuss my endorsement of his product.

And yes, I have contacted Ron about this thread to see if there is

any satisfaction to be had.

My real issue and it burns me often is our ability to condemn with out

any real effort. Folks, my daughter lives across the street.

I e-mail her almost daily. I go over and ask her if she thought something I sent her was funny. She says what are you talking about, I didn't get that.

I check her computer. Nope. she didn't.

Folks I turn 50 in a month, Am I that old that I fondly remember when we were angry we used a stamp on our important communications?

I wish everyone was aware of how far and wide your message goes on the intertubes today.

You are not writing to a bunch of tool guys on this forum, you publish to the world.

By Monday this thread should be on Page one or two of a google search for Forrest blades.

Per

[Chuck Tringo]

If a company is willing to have its name published along side of a contact number or email, then in my opinion, they had better damn well respond through that. Forrest isn't a fortune 500 company with 5000 employees and 10000 email addresses. If their name is on it, they need to respond, it should not be on the customer to repeatedly try to get an issue resolved. My time is worth a lot to me, I am in the military and work 60 hours a week with a 35 minute commute each way. I personally hate calling because it does take more time than email, especially if you factor in time on hold or busy signals, which in my experience are much more frequent with smaller businesses. If Forrest feels they can charge $100 for a saw blade (way overrated in my opinion, I run Freud 50 tooth combo, as well as dedicated rip and crosscut blades, all of which together cost probably less that 1 WWII, IIRC) than they better be able to back it up. At $100 a pop they should have plenty to pay $5 an hour for someone to check the stinkin email.

[Clifford Mescher]

I wonder when "making a phone call" turned into jumping thu hoops?:confused::confused:

per Per:

call Ted Rogozinski at

Forrest, he is the Vice president in charge, and Ted told me to take a leap,

then by all means, be done with Forrest and tell us exactly why.

By the way Ted answers the phone, here is his number. 973-473-5236.

Talked to my friend last nite. He said a female answered phone and when transferred to billing he talked to another female. Don't know if one is called Ted. He said they were pleasant over the phone.Clifford

[Ron Dunn]

Here are a few reasons why people won't use the phone any more:

* Your call is important to us, please hold the line for the next available operator

* In the interests of coaching, your call may be monitored

* You have moved in the queue for the next available operator. Your call should be answered within 27 minutes

* etc.

IVR and related phone technologies have been so badly abused that I just don't bother reaching for the telephone when I need to contact someone.

Not only that, but I've got no record of a telephone conversation. When I want a record of a conversation - good or bad - I use eMail.

[Peter Quinn]

So, My WWII needs sharpening. When it was new it was the best blade I had ever spun, so I really don't want to be done with it, I just want it sharpened as well as it came new. I have a forrest dado too, good stuff. I may go with Ridge Carbide for the sharpening on price. I bought a ridge blade to use while the WWII gets sharpened and I'd say its equal in terms of cut quality with the Forrest but cost me a bunch less. $85? Not cheap, but less expensive.

I can tell you that if any company sends me back a $100 blade with a $35 sharpening done wrong, they are going to get a phone call, not an email, because its tough to hear the disappointment and irritation that the inflections in my voice would communicate quickly in an email.

The local grinding shop I use for most things is a pretty serious industrial operation. They have a limited amount of stuff for sale on their website, most things require a phone call. I ordered something from the website once a while back, then realized I had ordered the wrong size arbor, sent an email, finally called them. Turns out there was one guy who processed all the on line orders, every other Tuesday or something, same for emails. Call on the phone and you have a responsive professional immediately.

I wouldn't assume that just because a company posts a web site, even a pretty decent looking one, that they are an outfit of modern, over connected tech heads just waiting to rapid fire back your email. Lots of places still use the phone, or even fax, as a primary means of communication. The grinding shop I use is a modern automated CNC driven high tech operation on the production floor, but in the office its still "Hey, Mike, its Peter, I need a set of cope and stick insert knives for the........"Plus with all the unlimited minutes my phone company gives, its cheap to call too.

Maybe I'll call Forrest and ask em why I should pay them more than Ridge wants?

[Clifford Mescher]

I do not have patience for telephone. Menu requires you to listen to many options and rarely get a human. In frustration, I hang up and wife calls back.Clifford

[Per Swenson]

All true Ron,

But what we are really discussing here is

issue resolution, due diligence and the problem solving

skills we should have learned in grade school.

There is no doubt in my mind that Forrest screwed up.

There is also no doubt in my mind that Forrest will rectify the problem.

I am also a firm believer in using the internet as a tool to

hold business accountable.

After you have exhausted all reasonable efforts.

I don't think one e-mail is living up to the bargain.

Per

[Ron Dunn]

Per, I think you're right, but I think that Forrest had the chance to make it right the first time. Then they had the obligation to respond to the follow-up complaint, and they appear not to have taken this step.

You know, I think the difference here is that you seem to be a natural optimist when it comes to customer service, and I'm a grumpy old pessimist. I'd rather be you, but I've had enough bad dealings to sour that possibility.

[Per Swenson]

Ron,

The difference is I will get satisfaction or I will burn down the village.

I know this about me.

It is not pretty.

So I learned that before I light that match for the sake of my own karma,

I better have the right village and the right reason before I rush to

judgment or I have

become what I despise.

Per

[steve reeves]

If you haven't taken the time to make a simple phone call yet are trashing someone's reputation then I have my reservations about your ability to deal with anything that doesn't just turn out "peachy"...

No one here has any idea whether your complaint as stated on this forum is even legitimate, or perhaps exaggerated. it could be just exactly as you state it. However you've done little to nothing to get it solved.

I don't care how "busy" you claim to be... everyone gets a break at work even if it's your lunch break....

As another poster mentioned many companies do not do business via email. In this case likely a "clerk" or perhaps receptionist is charged with checking this general use email account... IF they even got the email...

I fail to recieve emails all the time.... some emails I send never arrive in the recipients inbox.

You chose a very poor method of voicing a complaint about the poor quality work you claim to have recieved and then want to throw the company under the bus..

You found time to ship the blade to them..... but can't find time to call?

I realize I rarely post here and I'm certainly not PC in expressing my opinions but I think you've gone way overboard and acted very prematurely in posting this before you've given this well respected company any meaningful chance of satisfying your complaint.

Were I a member of Forrest's management, I'd rectify your issue and ask you to please take your blade business elsewhere... I'd love my competition to have you as a customer..

[Larry Marley]

I like Forrest. Sam Maloof told me he sends all of his TS blades to Forrest for resharpening, including blades not made by Forrest.

Note thinly veiled gloat that Sam said something to me....

[Brent Smith]

I have to say that I agree with much of what's been said here. Email may very well be the easiest way for you to communicate with Forrest, but that doesn't mean it's the best way. I routinely phone a company if I have a problem. There's nothing like actually talking to a person to sort things out. Comming on a forum and complaining about it, then reading all these responses has to take at least as much time as an initial phone call would have???

[Scott Whiting]

I just hope my ISP never drops an email to or from some of the posters in this thread. I might end up out of business.;)

[Bruce Benjamin]

I just hope my ISP never drops an email to or from some of the posters in this thread. I might end up out of business.;)

Scott, your point has already been made but it's a good one worth repeating, especially from your perspective as a business owner who sharpens blades. Another point worth repeating is that if a company is going to list an email address then they darn well better have someone monitor it regularly and respond promptly. In my opinion, a company with no email address is better than one that has an email address but doesn't use it properly.

That email thing is tricky. You never know if that company either didn't receive the email or just didn't bother to respond to it. Or possibly their reply didn't make it to you or your spam filter is a bit overzealous. None of these things should happen but they do.

It just seems to me that with the unreliability of an email, (no matter who's fault it is) a simple phone call is what's in order. The guy who was complaining about being put on hold or being recorded is exaggerating just a bit. I've had this happen usually only with the companies who's best interest is to not talk to you. Credit card companies don't want to hear from you. Government agencies don't want to talk to you. That's because the call is usually either a complaint or a request for something for nothing. But a company that regularly receives orders, (People spending $$$) does want to talk to you.

To the OP: In case you haven't learned anything from this thread already, just pick up the phone and quite your whining and moaning. You've spent way more time on this forum with this thread than several phone calls would have taken. This applies to anyone who claims to be too busy to make a phone call. That's absolute garbage! If you have time to visit and read this or any other forum then you have time to make a phone call.

Bruce

[Clifford Mescher]

To the OP: In case you haven't learned anything from this thread already, just pick up the phone and quite your whining and moaning. You've spent way more time on this forum with this thread than several phone calls would have taken. This applies to anyone who claims to be too busy to make a phone call. That's absolute garbage! If you have time to visit and read this or any other forum then you have time to make a phone call.

Bruce
Only seen 2 posts from OP yesterday.Clifford

[Ken Tucker]

I know that I will go out of my way to please the customer . I will back up my work . I expect the same thing as a customer . if i dont get the service that deserve then ill let the manager or owner know (verbally talk to them) . If he or she makes it right ,then all is well , but if not oh well , Ill go to another company . We all let everyone know when we have gotten bad service , if only to save you the headache . Any company can win back my business . anyway I hope the original thread dude get everything right . And may we all have a Bless Day .:)

[Ted Baca]

This is a sad thing to read, as I have used Forrest blades exclusivly in my shop for about 12 years now and have alwasy ahd very good experiences with their sharpening service. However next time I send one in I will be very critical of what I get back. It is a shame that our country is losing the older self conscience craftsmen to a younger "I am here for the paycheck" mentality. I have seen the quality of service diminish in a number of business and am sorry to hear that Forrest is possibly joining those ranks. Maybe as mentioned an alternate sharpening service is the solution, but it seems wrong to take a Ford to a Chevy dealership to get good service.

[David Cramer]

Slightly off-topic here, but my method is to do 3 things. Call, then email, and send a quick letter certified mail where a signature is required. I am talking about a 5 minute letter with a full explanation of the problem and who I spoke to on the phone on such and such date. Doing these 3 things fully covers me and I've done my part. The company in question, no matter who it may be, cannot say you should have done this or should have done that.

Anything can happen with emails and phone calls where someone can say they "forgot" to give the message or just plain out admit that they "dropped the ball", it happens. Or, as some have mentioned, emails that never arrive.

I assure you this, if I made a phone call and said I was a philanthropist and wanted to donate $10,000 to a company, the message would immediately get into the right hands (no, I can't afford to do that:)). Don't believe me, try it:cool:. You'll get someone higher up to talk to real quickly. Then tell them your problem.

But when there is an issue, we as consumers sometimes (not always) have to work harder. I'm not bashing Forrest and I don't own any of their blades. I've never had ANY experience with the company. I am merely making a generalized statement about the majority of companies. I live in the Great Lake State. Businesses are closing up left and right. Company A, a supplier for the Big 3 is getting squezzed by the Big 3 to lower their prices, the wages for workers go down at Company A, they can't afford to vacation up north, the worker up north gets laid off with less vacationers, etc............

I don't know what's going on at Forrest, but if Mr. Haddix said that he got back a used blade, I believe him and I don't believe it was on accident. They've now saved on a new blade that they can sell for a profit and help them to stay in business.............see the above paragraph.

Again, I'm not ripping on Forrest, but I believe Mr. Haddix, who was not the original poster, on getting back a blade that was clearly not new. There is no excuse for that, period. Some will say they test out the blade before sending it out, but that is not what appears to have happened to Mr. Haddix.

Hey, that's just my take and how I make the effort first. Then, AND ONLY THEN, can I play the game. Unfortunately folks, with some companies it is a game and it's called the avoid game, but I didn't say Forrest was doing that.

After a phone call, an email and a short letter, there is no excuse period. When I call to order a product, I'm never blown off. So please don't blow me off when an issue arises.

David

p.s. The preceding statements were strictly my opinion and NOT the opinion of Sawmill Creek, its owners, its moderators (including but not limited to Chris Padilla), its subsidiaries, or any of its members. Thank you and have a nice day:D!!! Just funnin' ya Mr. Padilla!

[Dar Lounsbury]

Seems to me after one dead-ended email as the ONLY communication, your main interest is the complaint and not getting your blade fixed. Too busy to make a phone call, it is your $100+ saw blade you are throwing away.

People make mistakes, even you. Lighten up and call Forest and vent your complaint to a live person, where it just might get results.

Per, as usual, you are 100% correct.

Dar

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I'm guessing they have a couple of new hires who aren't up to snuff.

[Steve Perez]

Comparing blade manufacturers, Forrest is obviously up there. And so is Freud with their Fusion blade. When a Freud wears, where are you going to take it for a resharpening? Not back to Freud. They've wiped their hands clean once you bought the blade. It would have to be somewhere local. Maybe Freud is smart in minimizing their liability by not offering direct resharpening services stateside but I am glad Forrest still does. However, I think it is important that we voice any dissatisfaction directly to manufacturers to let them know of the importance of QCQA and let them try to make things right first.

If you aren't happy with them, Ridge Carbide, another premium blade manufacturer just around the corner from Forrest also offers resharpening services by mail. Pretty reliable from what I've heard and yes they do Forrest blades as well. Or again go somewhere locally.

[jerry nazard]

Comparing blade manufacturers, Forrest is obviously up there. And so is Freud with their Fusion blade. When a Freud wears, where are you going to take it for a resharpening? Not back to Freud. They've wiped their hands clean once you bought the blade. It would have to be somewhere local. Maybe Freud is smart in minimizing their liability by not offering direct resharpening services stateside but I am glad Forrest still does. However, I think it is important that we voice any dissatisfaction directly to manufacturers to let them know of the importance of QCQA and let them try to make things right first.

Steve,

Freud does offer sharpening services on the Fusion blade: the information is on the "Owner's Instructions" packed with the blade. Shortly after I purchased my Premier Fusion, I ran into the Freud rep at my local hardware store and got the full sales pitch. When my blade needs sharpening, I'll send it off to Freud, and will report back.

Best!

-Jerry

[Phil Thien]

I sent them (Forrest) several blades, a FTG blade among them. The FTG came back with a slight (probably several degrees off of square) ATB.

That peeved me enough that next time I'm sending my blades to Scott. Just haven't had any dull blades yet.

[J. Greg Jones]

Steve,

Freud does offer sharpening services on the Fusion blade: the information is on the "Owner's Instructions" packed with the blade. Shortly after I purchased my Premier Fusion, I ran into the Freud rep at my local hardware store and got the full sales pitch. When my blade needs sharpening, I'll send it off to Freud, and will report back.

Best!

-Jerry

Just as a FYI, Freud doesn't have their own (owned/operated) sharpening service here in the US. The address included with the Fusion is one of their authorized sharpening service centers, Wurth Wood Group/The Hardwood Group located in Charlotte. Freud has a list of 22 authorized sharpening centers in the US on their customer service page of the Freud Web site.

[Chuck Tringo]

Wow, its sad to see that many of the people here are jumping on a manufacturers bandwagon and bashing a person who got some bad service. While many offered some good advice on how to resolve the problem, some of you sound like you want to crucify the customer, what a pity. He came here with a legitimate complaint and I agree with him whole heartedly. If I get bad service, I most likely wont go back. And it was not just the email he was complaining about, his FIRST complaint was that they did a poor job sharpening his $100 blade after paying for shipping and sharpening; the SECOND is that they didn't respond to his email in a manner even resembling timely. The company is in the wrong, twice, not the customer. As I stated before, if they are willing to publish an email address tied to their name, then they had better darn well make sure its accessible. This is 2008, not 1978...email is far surpassing the phone as the most prominent communications medium. 9 times out of 10 I will always agree with a burned customer, it is on the company to provide excellent service, not the customer to send emails, make phone calls, sit on hold, leave voice messages, and hope to get through to someone who gives a crap. If you don't agree with Brians choice to avoid Forrest in the future, good for you. I know I would say the same thing and I thank him for letting me know about bad service from a company so I can avoid them in the future.

[jerry nazard]

Just as a FYI, Freud doesn't have their own (owned/operated) sharpening service here in the US. The address included with the Fusion is one of their authorized sharpening service centers, Wurth Wood Group/The Hardwood Group located in Charlotte. Freud has a list of 22 authorized sharpening centers in the US on their customer service page of the Freud Web site.

Greg,

Thanks for the correction/heads up. I am constantly amazed at how much information is available on this forum. Also, didn't someone recently post RE a bad sharpening experiance with Wurth Wood Group?

Best!

-Jerry

[Tom Veatch]

...didn't someone recently post RE a bad sharpening experiance with Wurth Wood Group?



http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=88167

[Alex Shanku]

I find it odd/funny that some of you guys thinking email is not a valid/reliable method of communication.

I worked in the research/scientific/medical community for years and 100's of emails a day were sent back and forth, as well as forwarded and mass forwarded. Never once was there a case of not receiving it.

I think it is much more likely that whomever answers Forrests emails filed that under "low priority" or just plain forgot.

[Scott Haddix]

...I don't know what's going on at Forrest, but if Mr. Haddix said that he got back a used blade, I believe him and I don't believe it was on accident. They've now saved on a new blade that they can sell for a profit and help them to stay in business.............see the above paragraph.

Again, I'm not ripping on Forrest, but I believe Mr. Haddix, who was not the original poster, on getting back a blade that was clearly not new. There is no excuse for that, period. Some will say they test out the blade before sending it out, but that is not what appears to have happened to Mr. Haddix.
...

David, you are correct. The blade was well beyond tested. It was used. And I had included a print-out of the email thread from them stating I was to be sent a new blade with the blade I returned.

[David Cramer]

Scott

Well I hope everything worked out in your favor, and for the original poster as well. After reading the thread that you linked, you definitely did your part and then some. I feel bad for ya that you had to go through what you did, and then to pay return shipping on top of it. Many will disagree, but for this situation, that's just not fair. Based off of your post, you are not responsible for the tooth coming off, Forrest is.

Good luck and I sincerely hope it has all been resolved with a fair and just resolution.

David

p.s. Disclaimer: No positive or negative connection to Forrest in any way, shape, or form. To my knowledge, my name is not located anywhere on their website:D. I am a hack and I think they'd make me pay them to have it on there. Besides, I use a different blade that is manufacturered by a man who lives in a cave high on Mount Kilamanjaro, located in the country of Tanzania. He only makes 3 blades a year. Norm gets one, David Marks gets the other, and I pay a steep price for the 3rd one. They last one year and can't be sharpened.

[Sean Kinn]

I find it odd/funny that some of you guys thinking email is not a valid/reliable method of communication.



It is not.

It all depends on all of the systems/servers/it support staff and internet service providers that are in the loop between you and the person you send it to. There are usually many redundancies built into the systems....but it can all go downhill quickly. I work in a large federal office building, and when we had a large syetm go down (and the backup system failed as well) literally thousands of emails vanished into thin air and never made it to an individual users inbox. This should not have been possible, and there were numerous backups in place....but they all failed for various reasons. This can happen even more so with smaller companies that might not have a large (or even have one) IT support staff on their end to keep things running smoothly. Fact of the matter is that most small and midsize businesses don't even have 1/1000th of the resources that a giant like Google has dedicated to just keeping your Gmail functioning properly.

That was a bit long winded....but seriously, email is not 100% reliable. I'm just like you and rely on email (and ususlly use it before picking up the phone), but sometimes nothing beats picking up the phone.

[Jim Becker]

I find it odd/funny that some of you guys thinking email is not a valid/reliable method of communication.
Alex, as I pointed out earlier, I'm in the business of providing customer service solutions to businesses and can honestly say I have significant expertise in that area. The percentage of businesses that do a good job with the email channel is deplorable, even today in 2008. I cannot tell you how hard it is for many businesses to accept that they can no longer have any kind of "general mailbox" when they have a web presence (or other advertisements/collateral) that lists an email contact. It just doesn't get serviced with the same effectiveness as voice for far too many companies. Unfortunately, the scientific community, of which I'm also familiar with due to my previous work in a non-profit as well as Professor Dr. SWMBO's work, is much more likely to use and be responsive with email than commercial businesses.

Again, I'm not making excuses for the vendor cited in this thread...they SHOULD be responsive to email and apparently failed...'just putting out what the unfortunate situation is in real life "out there" along the email subject.

[Paul Johnstone]

Most companies today hire a firm to create their web site and as a matter of routine they include an e-mail address to contact the company. I’ve come to the conclusion that most of these companies do not check their e-mails at all.


Email is the absolute worst way to contact anyone. That's a general rule in life. Even at work, I am so bombarded by emails that don't concern me that I only skim and delete. I occasionally miss something important, but I just can't spend 2 hours/day reading all the company generated spam.

It's sad, because email is a good idea in theory.

Call them up. Sorry they hosed you.. I agree you shouldn't have to be tracking them down.

[Rob Bodenschatz]

I find it odd/funny that some of you guys thinking email is not a valid/reliable method of communication.


I find it odd/funny that you think it is.

[John Keeton]

I find it odd/funny that you think it is.
All forms of communication short of "one on one" lack reliability in varying degrees. That is why we have "certified mail", "return receipt requested", "registered mail", and also why you can set your email program to give you a receipt when the email is opened.

If you don't have one of the above, there is simply no way to conclude that the individual on the other end received the communication.

The essence of this whole thread is that we have lost to technology the art of communication. We used to say - "I think we have a problem here we need to talk about." Now we just email them, text them, or any method of venting that avoids personal contact. Most people fear confrontation, and the result is nearly always miscommunication and greater conflict.

As an attorney, perhaps I should be OK with this situation??!!?? After all, most of what I do involves the inability or lack of desire to communicate and resolve conflict. I nearly always ask "Have you all talked about this?" The answer is nearly universal - NO!

That is when they get out the checkbook!

[Rob Bodenschatz]

All forms of communication short of "one on one" lack reliability in varying degrees. That is why we have "certified mail", "return receipt requested", "registered mail", and also why you can set your email program to give you a receipt when the email is opened.

The email receipt is not reliable either. The recipient can easily disable that functionality on many email clients (including Outlook).

There are so many things that go wrong with email, it's foolish to presume that any single message has been received until the recipient acknowledges that he/she has.

The question is: Where is the OP? This is looking a lot like a hit-and-run to me.

[Ron Dunn]

Rob, click on his name then look at his other posts ... well reasoned, wood working topics ... nothing drive-by at all.

He is probably sitting back wondering why no-one is piling on Scott Haddix for having the same experience with the same company.

[Al Willits]

""""""""
And yes, I have contacted Ron about this thread to see if there is

any satisfaction to be had.
""""""""

Maybe I missed it, but did they say they got his email????

The answer to that would make a big difference I think.

I've used emails for first contact many times and can't remember them not working, but I guess after two emails and no response, I'd be wondering if they are ignoring them, or possibly not getting them, and if they had a 800 number I'd prob call.

I'm also tired of the "press here for English" and then press here for whatever else they want you do do, and rarely continue the phone call, you want my business answer the phone.

Personally I think the OP pulled the trigger a bit early, a phone call may have cleared all this up, key here for me is the chance that they never got the email.

Had they got it and not responded, I'd say good by to Forrest and go buy a Freud.

fwiw
I have both Freud and Forrest, they both work great and watching for sales can make buying one a bit less painful for those who don't have accounts pay for it all...:D

Al

[David Cramer]

Rob, click on his name then look at his other posts ... well reasoned, wood working topics ... nothing drive-by at all.

He is probably sitting back wondering why no-one is piling on Scott Haddix for having the same experience with the same company.


Why would anyone pile up on Scott Haddix, or the original poster for that matter? The original poster could have made a phone call, but he didn't, no biggie? There's no reason for anyone to pile up on anybody. The OP, Brian Knop, didn't rip Forrest apart or anything close to it. Companies have to take the good with the bad. They like it when positive comments are made on the internet, but don't like the negative.

The OP shared his experience and members post their opinion in response about how they would have handled it. The OP may have had great experience with email before and this time he didn't, which didn't make him feel too good about the company, in this case Forrest. So he posted about his experience and people respond with advice on what they would've done or have done in the past by experience. That's how forums work.

What could Scott Haddix have done differently? Me confused? He went well beyond and should be reimbursed for shipping, in my humble opinion.

Nothing personal Ron, but neither of these 2 fellas did anything wrong. The OP could have done more, but he should not have been "required to". Did he have to do more when he purchased the blade? Why have email if no one is going to respond or it's not gonna get through. Stuff happens.

Brian Knop (OP) and Scott Haddix didn't have the connections that some people on this site have with Forrest. So they did the best they could and contacted the company with the means available to them. What's wrong with that?

David

[Ron Dunn]

David, I agree! That is the point I was trying to make, just not as well as you did it.

[Terry Leger]

""""""""

I've used emails for first contact many times and can't remember them not working, but I guess after two emails and no response, I'd be wondering if they are ignoring them, or possibly not getting them, and if they had a 800 number I'd prob call.


Al

Al, they do have an 800 number. Its on their website. I would not recommend calling it though. I sent a WWII to them about two weeks ago. Last week I called to find out how long it usually takes for sharpening to get an idea of when I should get my blade back. However, the person who answered the phone, upon hearing the question, went into a rant about being short handed and employees leaving and telling me that they are doing their best. It was so unyielding that it was almost a minute before I could get another word in, and when I did she just talked over me. I hung up when she put me on hold to answer another call. I did not figure the call would somehow become productive when she came back. I sent an e-mail to their customer service and Ted Rogozinski complaining about the call but it went unanswered.


On the plus side, I got the blade back on Friday. It cuts good as new, no problems.


Terry

[Tom Walz]

There is a theory that quality is exactly what the customer says it is. (Dr. Deming)

Following this idea then you should be able to communicate effectively with a company any way you wish. We use a web page, email, fax, telephone (800 number with people answering) and US Mail. (I received a real hand written letter from a customer last week.)

There should be a person readily available to take calls who speaks the advertised language and who has decision making authority.

Again, following Dr. Deming’s theory, it is the responsibility of the supplier to be available to any reasonable waythe customer wishes to communicate.