Freud stacked dado question - also are box joint blades worth buying?

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,
What's the difference between the Diablo DD208 and the Freud SD208?
Is it just the name/color or is one better than the other?

Also, right now Rockler has the Oshlun box joint blade - 1/4" and 3/8" on sale for $59.00.
Does it make any sense to buy one for roughly 60% the cost of a stacked dado blade?
It would seem to me, that since plywood dimensions are all over the place, that a 3/8" rabbet would be too wide most of the time for what passes for 3/4" plywood.
A dado, I guess would be ok since the 3/8" setting would require two passes, and could be adjusted for.
Still, that seems like extra work/effort/chance for something to go wrong, rather than using a dado blade set to the right width.

Or - should I just chuck the whole dado idea and use a router? <--which I'm heavily leaning towards.

[scott spencer]

Hello,
What's the difference between the Diablo DD208 and the Freud SD208?
Is it just the name/color or is one better than the other?

Same blade, different color. You have to move up to the 506,508, or 608 to get better.

Also, right now Rockler has the Oshlun box joint blade - 1/4" and 3/8" on sale for $59.00.
Does it make any sense to buy one for roughly 60% the cost of a stacked dado blade?
It would seem to me, that since plywood dimensions are all over the place, that a 3/8" rabbet would be too wide most of the time for what passes for 3/4" plywood.
A dado, I guess would be ok since the 3/8" setting would require two passes, and could be adjusted for.
Still, that seems like extra work/effort/chance for something to go wrong, rather than using a dado blade set to the right width.

Not sure which is "best", but there are some differences...the box joint sets have FTG teeth which yield a perfectly flat bottom. They also offer just the two size cuts...1/4" or 3/8". Dado sets all have at least some ATB teeth on the outside cutters which leave some minor "bat ears", though there are some sets that include some FTG teeth on the cutters to minimize the bat ears....Infinity for example. I've read many positive comments about the box joint sets, but so far I haven't been able to justify the cost...I think a stacked dado set offers more versatility, but perhaps it's not as convenient for the specific box joint cuts.

Or - should I just chuck the whole dado idea and use a router? <--which I'm heavily leaning towards.

Matter of opinion I guess, I've used both, find both to have some benefit, but typically use the TS and stacked dado. The router requires multiple passes to dial in a kerf width unless the bit happens to be exactly the width you want, which can increase variability and takes longer. Router bits leave a true flat bottom but tend to have more tearout on the back side, depending on the tearout tendencies of a particular stacked dado set. The stacked dado sets can be tweaked for nearly any width within their range.


...........

[Chris Kennedy]

I have the Freud set, and it is good.

I use both a router and a tablesaw with a dado stack. I find the TS much faster in certain cases, but if the stock is large, the router is the way to go. So, I would go with both.

Cheers,

Chris

[Charles McCracken]

Hello,
What's the difference between the Diablo DD208 and the Freud SD208?
Is it just the name/color or is one better than the other?

Also, right now Rockler has the Oshlun box joint blade - 1/4" and 3/8" on sale for $59.00.
Does it make any sense to buy one for roughly 60% the cost of a stacked dado blade?
It would seem to me, that since plywood dimensions are all over the place, that a 3/8" rabbet would be too wide most of the time for what passes for 3/4" plywood.
A dado, I guess would be ok since the 3/8" setting would require two passes, and could be adjusted for.
Still, that seems like extra work/effort/chance for something to go wrong, rather than using a dado blade set to the right width.

Or - should I just chuck the whole dado idea and use a router? <--which I'm heavily leaning towards.

Rich,

The SD208 and DD208 are identical except for the coating. The DD version has our red PermaSHIELD while the SD has Silver I.C.E.

As you may know, Freud invented the Box Joint Set and our SBOX8 is very useful for its intended purposes of finger and box joints and can be used for grooves (with the grain). However, it won't substitute for a dado set for cross grain cuts because the geometry is similar to a rip blade. There are no bevel teeth to score the fibers and cuts in man made materials will not be as clean due to the high hook angle.

[Scott Whiting]

Box joint sets have a very real use. I have a customer with 3 SD508 sets and 2/3 of the time he was cutting 1/4 drawer bottom slots with it. I talked him into using the box joint set and his sharpening cost went down as well as his dado sets won't wear out as soon. Granted this is a commercial application in a 3 man shop but I wanted to illustrate that there is a good reason for the box joint set to exist, albeit hard to justify for a hobbyist.

[Charles Lent]

If you will be making a lot of box joints on the table saw, the Freud box joint set will be a good buy because it makes more perfect square cuts with flat bottoms than any dado set. I have one and am very satisfied with it. I also have one of their dial adjustable dado sets, which I am also very satisfied with, but I prefer using the box joint set over the dado set for making box joints because of it's superior cut.

Charley

[John Thompson]

First.. I sold my Freud 6" stacked dado set. The Freud was as good as any but I do not relish having a set-up that has gang cutters inside the outer blades. You are basically "punching" out stock with gang cutters. And if you take too deep a pass... it can lead to kick-back without an over-head guard. I consider them dangerous personally as I have seen too many with too little patience take all the stock in one pass.

I went to a router.. but found with 3 different brands of top bits... none are exactly 3/4".. 3/8".. 1/4".. etc. So.. since I do a lot of box joints I gave the Freud SBO X8 box joint set a try. It was like the discovery of a hidden treasure as I see it.

Perfect (I micrometered them) 3/8" and 1/4" cuts with flat bottoms and absoulutely no tear-out with a backer board. And to take it a step further I attempted dados in both long grain and cross-grain. Perfect 1/4" and 3/8" dadoes. To get perfect 3/4" or 1/2" I do a double pass which I find more accurate than router bit diameters.

I don't do man made materials as Charles mentioned.. but I get excellent results with a backer board on cross-cut dadoes also. He is technically correct about cross-cuts being similar to a rip blade but I will take the extra few minutes and not take the entire depth if over 1/4" with one pass.

BTW... I use if for lap joints... tenon shoulders.. etc. Would I ever purchase another dado set. NO... period... Would I purchase another set of Freud Box Joint cutters.. Give me a dozen.. one for back-up and the others as gifts to deserving friends.

I rest my case.... :)

Sarge..

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, I have the Forrest finger joint blade set, and they make perfect finger joints, although only in two sizes.

When I made finger joints with a standard dado set, there were always little triangular gaps caused by the ATB tooth profile.

The finger joint set is also ideal for ploughing grooves in solid stock such as drawer sides as mentioned previously, however I normally do that on the shaper.

I find a stacked dado cutter to be ideal since you can shim it to metric dimensions for plywood.

Regards, Rod.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I prefer to do box joints on the TS and not the a router table, The reason is side loading. The router wants to push the work off to one side. The saw blade pushes it into the fence.

I've done some pretty damn complex box "type" joints using my router table but I avoided the side loading by taking several passes each nibbling a little more stock off for each cut. I have a Triton in the table and I used the winder on it while sitting on a bucket.

However when it comes so one pass box joints:
Just give me the smooth power of the table saw
Give me the steady feed-rate of the circular blade
Give me freedom from torsion twisting as I plough away.
Just give me the straight flow of the saw
Give me the comforting sureness of the straight pass
But please take all the torsion twisting side loads away-eee-aaa.

Apologies to David Crosby & Graham Nash

[Reed Wells]

Jeeze Cliff, You showed your age there! Giggles

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,
Thanks to all - excellent info!
I believe Cliff's explanation of the side loading sealed the deal.
Makes sense. I've felt that "pull" before using a router for other things and can easily see how it would affect doing box joints.
I'll have to keep an eye out for a good deal on the box joint (Freud) blade.


Granted this is a commercial application in a 3 man shop but I wanted to illustrate that there is a good reason for the box joint set to exist, albeit hard to justify for a hobbyist
I guess for a hobbiest it comes down to what you "like".
I've always liked the appearance of box (finger) joints, so I can easily see getting a lot of use out of it.

[glenn bradley]

I use a router or a dado depending on the cut. The dado can cut more at once and deeper (taller?). For large sheets a hand held router will follow the wave (if any) of the sheet and give you a consistent depth of cut. The router table or dado blade cannot do this unless you want to overpower the warp of the material while feeding your stock (danger, Will Robinson). I don't do much with sheet goods anymore so the dado gets more use but as I said; depends on the cut. My .02.