Jointer - parallelogram or dovetail...lever vs wheel

[Chris Barnett]

Cannot decide between the Grizzly 490X and the 495X for an 8 inch jointer with carbide bits, or perhaps the 12 inch 609X. Always thought weight meant higher rigidity and thus, accuracy, which pushes me toward the 12 inch (the price pushes right back :D). Also Griz's web site shows photos of both knives and carbide cutters on the 495X, so I'm not sure which type of cutting head it has.
All of these jointers have long beds; I have exhausted looking for a short bed jointer (60 inch max) 8 inch minimum width with carbide cutters. Is there a model available for new equipment et. al, that I did not find?
Thanks for any help. Need it here soon, but cannot decide. At the price of the 12 inch though, PM looks good with their 8 inch. Saw it at WC...a beauty. Maybe I need to go back to Griz showroom...their's are beauts too.

[Jeff Duncan]

Well if your looking for opinions here we go:)

Parallelogram vs Dovetail...doesn't honestly matter, once you get it set up you'll likely never have to mess with either again.

Levers vs Handwheels... doesn't matter much, if you move your tables a lot then the levers are quicker. I adjust mine pretty often, some guys don't move them much at all.

Weight...absorbs vibration, the heavier a machine is the more vibration it soaks up.

As far as size, that is really dependant on what type of work you do. Personally I'd go with a better quality 8" over a cheaper 12", but that's just my opinion:D
good luck,
JeffD

[David Giles]

I've owned a used Delta dovetail and a PM parallelogram and agree with Jeff that once it's properly setup, it doesn't matter. That said, I messed with the used Delta for days shimming tables. The PM arrived in perfect setup. I've never moved the outfeed table (set the knife height with a dial indicator).

After owning two longer bed machines, I'm convinced that bed length is overrated. 99.99% of the boards are rough cut to 36" max before face jointing. The other 0.01% are long and flex sufficiently that they don't need to be perfectly flat.

The infeed table is set at 1/32" and probably doesn't move twice year. Handwheels are a little easier to precisely set the infeed table. More importantly, levers obstruct the floor storage at either end.

8" is sufficient, but there are those occasional wide boards...

[glenn bradley]

I would get the spiral 8" vs. the knifed 12". Oh, wait a minute, I did. I have the G0490X. What sold me after looking and saving for 18 months:
- I read too many posts on fussing with shims in DT ways for adjustment.
- The consistency of gap at the cutter head at different heights.
- Mostly it was post after post after post of satisfied G0490(X) ceekers; I figured why try something else?

All that being said, a hobbiest would have to be pretty busy to wear his DT ways to the point of needing adjustment.

[Wade Lippman]

After owning two longer bed machines, I'm convinced that bed length is overrated. 99.99% of the boards are rough cut to 36" max before face jointing. The other 0.01% are long and flex sufficiently that they don't need to be perfectly flat.


That might be true for you, but I use many boards over 36", and it is darn nice when they are straight.

[Frank Drew]

I agree with Wade on stock length/jointer table length. I think David's situation (99.99% less than 36") is not the norm, at least for anyone taking on a variety of jobs.

[David Giles]

I agree with Wade on stock length/jointer table length. I think David's situation (99.99% less than 36") is not the norm, at least for anyone taking on a variety of jobs.

Apparently I'm a skinny wood(worker). Which makes y'all.... well, never mind.:p
I confess, most projects are 3/4" thick. But then, I'm still a newbie.

[Chris Friesen]

After owning two longer bed machines, I'm convinced that bed length is overrated. 99.99% of the boards are rough cut to 36" max before face jointing. The other 0.01% are long and flex sufficiently that they don't need to be perfectly flat.

My first two projects after getting my jointer have been a king-sized bed and a workbench with a solid wood top. 7-foot long pieces that don't flex much have been fairly common.

My next project is a 6-foot storage frestanding maple chimney cabinet. More long lumber.

[Peter Quinn]

After owning two longer bed machines, I'm convinced that bed length is overrated. 99.99% of the boards are rough cut to 36" max before face jointing. The other 0.01% are long and flex sufficiently that they don't need to be perfectly flat.


So......I make passage doors from 8/4 stock, 6" wide, typical 80", occasionally longer styles. For me short bed=no dice or big headache. I'm often jointing stock close to 8', just not easy on a short bed.

Parallelogram vrs dovetail? For a production shop over the long haul with lots of infeed adjustments and lots of hard working years, definitely parallelogram. For most of the wood working world? Probably doesn't matter, until your tables get out of plane, which may never happen, but then good luck trying to shim a dovetail table.

Handwheels vrs levers? I prefer levers, I have owned and used both, I find that on a well tuned and lubricated QUALITY machine both are equally accurate and precise, but it is largely a matter of personal taste rather than performance.

Grizzly vrs powermatic? Well, send me a new model of each and I'll let you know what I think. Never used a grizzly jointer, have only used PM jointers painted green ie:old arn built to last.

8" vrs 12"? Depends on your needs, budget and work space. I say get the biggest you can realistically fit and afford. At my home shop I have an 8', wish I had a 16" some days, may get a 12" some day, but a good 8" can do much work and is heavy enough to be a serious machine. At work I use several 12" jointers, wish we had a 20", can easily joint a 15" board on a 12" jointer though with a little creative thinking (no, not the dreaded planer sled).

Straight knife vrs spiral carbide index head? Depends on you. Spiral heads cost more, but knife changes are easier, highly figured grain may go through better, and they are considerably quieter in operation. But straight knives make a fine cut too. You can always add an index head if the need arises. I wouldn't say a spiral head is essential to woodworking but it may be a great convenience to many depending on their work.

[John Shuk]

I prefer a wheel. Much easier to dial in for me.

[Chris Barnett]

Thanks for all the comments. Was partial to the wheel, thinking it would be more accurate, although slower, than the lever. And the 12 inch jointer had wheels.
Might be a moot point now, since I learned from Grizzly that the 609 comes assembled in a crate 88x29x40, and is almost as large as the crate. Must move down a hallway and make a turn into the shop. Doubt the 88 inches will make that turn. Had decided I would go with the 12 inch since my planer is a 20. Come to think of it, I haven't moved it into the shop either :o but at least the extension tables are not installed yet.
Wonder if the Griz guys would know how easily the 609 bed could be removed?
Suppose I will do some more looking at old postings on jointers. Thanks.

[Chris Barnett]

Before I let this one die....since I am still trying to purchase a nice jointer....and have decided on maybe the 8 inch G0490X, but preferably them 8 inch G0495X or even the 12 inch G0609X.
Have a slight problem that movement into shop requires that the jointer be disassembled....the top from the base cabinet stand. I have space for the machine in the shop but the table lengths cause problems moving the assembled jointer into the shop.
Have spoken to tech support, but they are less than confident about how to accomplish this and its effect on accuracy after non-factory reassembly.
Question...has anyone removed the machine top from the base on the 495 or 609, and can this easily be done without being a factory trained machinist.
My only other option is to purchase jointer from a different manufacturer (at much higher price, maybe meaning no jointer) and pay the factory tech to disassemble and move into the shop, which is 100% possible and have the tech identified and for a reasonable fee, probably willing.

[Ron Knapp]

I guess if you talked to tech support and they say its one unit, it is. My Delta DJ20 (older model so maybe they changed) came in two separate units. The motor and base was one and the whole upper assembly was another. All I had to do is release the motor a little as it was bolted inside the case for shipment, align the top with the bolt holes and secure it. Reposition the motor, add the belt button it up and turn it 0n.

The Grizzly may have some sort of complex way of connecting the top with the base but I can’t see how you could complicate something which should be simple.

I hope someone who has a Grizzly can help you because I know having it in two separate units made it much easier to move even though I’m on ground level. Good Luck.

[Jim Becker]

Parallelogram vs Dovetail...doesn't honestly matter, once you get it set up you'll likely never have to mess with either again.

Levers vs Handwheels... doesn't matter much, if you move your tables a lot then the levers are quicker. I adjust mine pretty often, some guys don't move them much at all.

Agree totally. On the first point, the parallelogram design does have advantages if you are adjusting the cut depth a lot and to the extreme since it keeps the edge of the table equidistant from the cutters at all settings, but in practice, few do this. Similar on the adjustment method...hand wheels might seem "easier" at first, but in practice it pretty much doesn't matter since most folks set the machine at a given height and leave it there. I have not adjusted my jointer cut depth since I bought the machine...in about 2003.

[Greg Cole]

Chris,
Looking at the manual for the G0609X, I can't see anything terribly involved to remove the tables & cutterhead ass'y. The base parts drawings shows holes for the worm gear shaft and e bolt holes to attach the base and the table ass'y. If that was all that was keeping me from a 12" jointer, I'd make it happen. From what I see you might have to remove the ring gear, bushing, washer etc off the vertical shafts, but that shouldn't be terrible nor should it require a factory tech, simply someone with mechanical aptitude. A grease pencil can be a good friend if you have any worries about gear positioning etc etc etc.
I've have the G0586 for a few years now, no issues with the dovetailed ways (other than a couple days of an OCD impuse I had this winter to give it a "real" tune up). After spending a couple of evenings getting tolerance to very close to perfect all around, I have not touched the jointer since December other than turn it on & off.
Levers versus handles has been well voiced.
Blades versus indexable carbide head is discussed alot too, I would love to add one to my G0586 & might add one if I don't get a wider one "somday".
Long beds on the other hand I consider a must.
Cheers.
Greg

[David Clawson]

Hi Chris,

Like you, I had to disassemble the G0490 to get it into the basement. If is easy to remove the the sliding tables from the base and reassemble to specs (actually, my specs were better after reassembly) using a good dial guage and straight edge. Easiest way to do it is to set it on saw horses so that you can access the underside or flip it over. Essentially two steel bars run through the top (2 on each side for a total of 4) and the base (2 on each side for a total of 4) and these rods are connected by a metal bracket. Revmove the bracket from the rods (be careful of set screws on the rods). The end bracket furthese away from the blades has the adjustment handle attached to it.

Mark the location of everything (brackets, etc) with a sharpie before you start and number the rods so you can put them back in the same place. Align as described in the manual.

One final thing is that when you tighen the table once it has been adjusted, you may see deflection due to tightening. I shimmed the side of the outfeed table such that tightening it didn't pull to the side.

Hope this helps, I have pictures if you want.

David

[Charlie T. Bear]

I bought a Grizzly a few months ago, The base actually ships in a separate box. Unpack it and set the jointer on top. I think its 4 bolts. The jointer is fully assembled. The instructions fail to let you know that you have to move the motor its bolted into the base but at a different spot for shipping.

I bought the Go490. It works great. I bought the straight knives. I personally couldn't see spending the cash for the Hyped up Spiral cutter head.

[Greg Cole]

The base actually ships in a separate box. Unpack it and set the jointer on top. I think its 4 bolts. The jointer is fully assembled.

That is how the 6 & 8 inchers come, the G0906 series or the 12" is fully assembled and removing the tables & cutter head ass'y is a little more than 4 bolts.... but still worth it if thats the only snag on going up to the larger machine. Least it is in my simple noodle.

Greg

[Paul Gatti]

The G0495X also comes fully assembled.

The other thing you might want to consider is whether you need a mobile base on your jointer. I've been seriously considering the G0495X (see this thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=87647)) but have not been able to find a mobile base that will fit. The G0490(X) comes with a built in base.