Grizzly G0651 Tablesaw Arrives

[Mark McGee]

Grizzly G0651 Tablesaw Inspection Report
with photos

I have been building furniture off and on for 25 years using hand planes and a Sears tablesaw. I have wanted a cabinet saw and a jointer for a long time, but kept putting it off. I finally decided on the Grizzly G0490 Joiner and the G0651 Tablesaw. I choose Grizzly because of what people here have said about their good customer service.

The jointer came a week ago and the tablesaw came on Friday.

I will provide some coverage of my receipt and initial inspection of the G0651 Tablesaw.

Delivery: UPS freight delivery was without incident and the drivers helped me move the crates to my garage. There was minimal damage to the crates.

Uncrating: Well packaged. Pallet was intact. Initial impression is one of high quality. Fit and finish is good, decals are properly aligned. Outstanding paintwork.

Arbor Runout: Much less than .001" (more like a tenth of a thousandth).

Table Flatness: The table dips .015" in the middle, all around the blade cutout. This was measured with a new 4 foot Starrett straight edge and feeler gauges.

Extension Table Flatness: One end dips .006".

Fence Tube: Arrived with rust on the polished slide surfaces. And the attachment bolts are too short.

Fence: Looks good. Flat and straight.

Operation: I put on a plug and plugged it into 240VAC. It ran smoothly. I did not cut anything because I have the table off. The cast iron handwheels and locking knobs work well and feel good.

Today I notified Grizzly of my findings. They tell me the spec on table flatness is .015" to .020".

I think this saw has potential and I will work with Grizzly to resolve these quality issues with my saw.

Pictures follow.

[Mark McGee]

Grizzly technical support tells me the spec for table flatness is .015" to .020". So I think I'm out of luck getting a replacement table for my saw. The encouraging news is the table flatness is better with the bolts loose. So maybe I can shim it in to an acceptable flatness. And Grizzly offered to replace rusted the fence tube but it is a 4 to 6 week lead time item and I would have to apply the rulers myself, so I told them I would assemble the saw with the rusted fence tube. The rust spot is not as bad as the picture makes it seem.

Here's more pictures of the saw.

[scott spencer]

That's a beauty Mark. Thanks for the pics, and congrats!

[Dewey Torres]

Sawdust!

Dewey

[David Schnegg]

Nice Saw... just don't get too much saw dust on the black porsche...

[Mike Langford]

That's a beauty Mark.....

...No, it looks like a rust spot to me! ;)

[John Thompson]

Congratulations on the acquisitions to your shop, Mark. I had a Sears contractors saw from around 1972 to 1982 before I could make an up-grade. Back in those days it really was a pretty good saw with a hollow ground planer blade on board. All the "hot-shot" blades weren't available then. But... it did everything my latter acquired cabinet saws can do now... just less power and a little more time to set up accurately.

BTW.... w-h-e-r-e-'-s Loganville? Sounds to be some kind of place that might have a car dealer named Maxie Price nearby or something? Probably even has a small municipality close that is "Between" two towns? Oh well... just something I dreamed probably. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..

Regards to all in Loganville from up the street in L'ville... :)

Sarge..

[Jim Becker]

Congrats on the new saw, Mark. Looks like a beauty.

When you removed the top, were there any shims? (They would look like washers but are not washers) If so, be sure they get back in the exact same positions they were to insure that you have accurate blade alignment during bevel cuts.

[Mark McGee]

There were no shims under the table, but there were a couple of shims in a small bag. Yesterday I made a dial indicator holder for use in table alignment. Today I will start the process of table alignment and shimming.

[Mark McGee]

I just spoke to Grizzly tech support and was told the spec for table flatness is .001" to .002". So I think I got a bad table. Here's an update on what I found. When I removed the three bolts that hold the cast iron table to the cabinet I found no shims, but there was a .015" gap between the cast iron and the cabinet bolting flange. That means the table was pulled down and warped. I have shimmed it but the dip will not go away. I'll call Grizzly later to discuss my options.

[Mark McGee]

Right after the Grizzly tech rep told me the spec for table flatness is .001" to .002" I got a call from another tech rep at Grizzly regarding my inquiry about table flatness. He told me the spec is .015" to .020". That means the spec is .0175" ± .0025". So mine is out of spec. I told him mine came in with a .015" dip in the table. He told me it does not matter for woodworking machines. I'll contact them again on Monday and request a replacement table since mine came in at .015". That's out of spec. I'm not pleased with having a table that should have been rejected at the factory.

[Mark McGee]

Good news. I got a call today from the Technical Manager at Grizzly. Due to the type of the defect, my table will be replaced. The new saw will be making sawdust soon.

[Douglas Brummett]

Sometimes it is like pulling teeth to get these import distributors to dole out replacements. Glad yours is going to work out.

[Jim O'Dell]

Sounds like to me that the top missed the shimming stage, but mounted anyway, and that pulling down on the top warped it. Glad you are getting a new top. Jim.

[Douglas Brummett]

One additional comment on tolerances. Without a drawing of the actual part it is hard to say the actual tolerance. Off hand I would agree with you on the +/- for discussion sake. However one thing you are not taking into account, or at least not mentioning here, is the tolerance of your gage and straight edge(neither of them are perfect). Fortunately you didn't end up with a hard-nosed rep otherwise that may have come into question.

[Mark McGee]

I inspected the table with a new Starrett four foot straight edge that I bought specifically for the purpose of inspecting the new saw and jointer. I also inspected the table with my two foot Starrett straight edge.

I checked the four foot Starrett against the two foot Starrett. I also checked it on a granite surface plate. And the four foot Starrett arrived firmly taped to a long board which protected it from shipping damage. So I am confident in the straight edge.

But my point is that the table was pulled down to close a .015" gap and ended up with a .015" valley down the middle of the table. Due to this being the area where a square is placed to set the blade at 90 degrees, Grizzly felt a new table is justified, even though the spec allows for a .020" out of flat condition.

I have found that Grizzly will work to make things right, and I intend to buy more tools from them in the future.

[Matthew Voss]

Mark-

What are those extension tables made from? thanks

[Mark McGee]

The long extension table and outfeed table are MDF with a steel frame. Since I have not finished assembling the saw, I have not put them into use. But being MDF, I think I will place some plywood crossmembers underneath. Or I could replace the MDF with some flat plywood.

[Don Bullock]

Grizzly G0651 Tablesaw Inspection Report
with photos

I have been building furniture off and on for 25 years using hand planes and a Sears tablesaw. ...

Congratulations Mark on replacing your Sears table saw with a cabinet saw. I did the same thing last year and can't believe the difference. You're going to find a new enjoyment in cutting wood.:D

[Douglas Brummett]

I inspected the table with a new Starrett four foot straight edge that I bought specifically for the purpose of inspecting the new saw and jointer. I also inspected the table with my two foot Starrett straight edge.

I checked the four foot Starrett against the two foot Starrett. I also checked it on a granite surface plate. And the four foot Starrett arrived firmly taped to a long board which protected it from shipping damage. So I am confident in the straight edge.

But my point is that the table was pulled down to close a .015" gap and ended up with a .015" valley down the middle of the table. Due to this being the area where a square is placed to set the blade at 90 degrees, Grizzly felt a new table is justified, even though the spec allows for a .020" out of flat condition.

I have found that Grizzly will work to make things right, and I intend to buy more tools from them in the future.

That is a great answer to that minor detail. Far better than most home shops would have around. So over 4 ft you have an tolerance of .0002"/ft or just under .001" total over the entire length. I don't think you can do any better without going to a CMM or very precise open setup on a large granite slab. You are so close to spec range that every .001" of accuracy in your measuring technique could come into question (depending who is on the other end of the line). Sometimes vendors get a bit funny when an item is on the ragged edge of specification.

I am glad to hear that they are remedying the problem. I am considering them for a bandsaw purchase coming up.

[Mark McGee]

After several phone calls and a letter to the manager of technical services, Grizzly agreed that a .015 inch dip down the middle of the table was not so good. They pulled a new table, checked if for flatness, crated it up and sent it out to me.

The good news is that the new table is a major improvement with no more than .004 inch deviation from flatness in any spot. And the center is dead flat. The bad news is that the crate was destroyed in shipping and arrived in two pieces, one sitting loosely atop the other. Judging from the exposed bent nails, two or three pieces are missing entirely. The table had been degreased to check flatness and had some bubble wrap loosely tossed on top. So, there was no protection from scratching or from moisture. And of course it was raining today. The new table arrived scratched and scuffed on one corner, but was not rusted. I don't think I can polish out the scratches, so I will have to get used to them. I oiled it up to keep the rust from getting started.

As I was preparing to set the new table, I checked the trunnion bolts for tightness and noticed there were no threads showing beyond the nuts. My requirement for bolt length is at least one thread showing beyond the nut, so I ordered replacement bolts from Bolt Depot.

This is the second instance of short bolts I have found on this saw and I present this in hopes Grizzly Quality Control management will get the message about short bolts.

I am close to having this saw running and look forward to making sawdust soon.

I also am planning to purchase a dust collector, sander, and large bandsaw from Grizzly before year's end.

Pictures attached.

[Mark McGee]

I got the new table top on and shimmed up, assembled the saw, got everything squared up and made some test cuts. It runs smoothly and is very quiet. I like the large side table and outfeed table. I'm very pleased and look forward to starting my next project on this saw.

[Scott Myers]

Mark,

Perhaps you may help me, if you are so inclined. I am in the process of outfitting my shop with my first cabinet saw.

I recently went through a saw buying fiasco with another well known saw manufacturer, although the situation was nowhere near as "pretty" as yours. To make a VERY long story short, it ended up with a return of the saw and me looking for another saw manufacturer. My confidence was shaken in this particular manufacturer for a number of reasons. I hesitate to state their name at this point, as everything is not yet complete with the return process. The saw is on a truck somewhere on the way back and the local supplier still has my money. Once everything is said and done, I may divulge who they are, if at all relevant to anyone.

I thought I had narrowed it down to a Jet Exacta Deluxe or a Powermatic PM2000. Then I looked at the Grizzly G0651 on their site, talked to their technical people (not a lot of help) and found your thread. Thanks again for the great posts. It has a few things missing that the Jet and PM have, but the price point sure is super!

One thing I learned through my unfortunate experience was that the trunnion assemblies of saws and their machining quality are not created equal. Since this is the heart of the saw and key to how long it lasts, this is seemingly important. (Sadly, I'm and engineer and WAY too detail minded and perhaps look too close.) Nor are various saws' raising/lowering and bevel angle adjustment mechanisms with locking assemblies created equally, which is of course and integral part of the trunnion assembly.

My questions: When you had the table off and was documenting all of this, did you happen to take photos of the trunnion assembly? Do you have experience with other saws' trunnion assemblies? Ever seen the guts of a Jet or Powermatic in comparison? How do the locks work on the G0651? Are they truly a positive lock with a nice heavy metal center knob that don't feel "spongy" at the end as you lock them down?

Thanks.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Mark, nice to see that you got your saw running to your satisfaction, you should be able to make some nice furniture with it.

Your technical expertise, along with your ownership or access to precision measuring devices allowed you to find and rectify a quality control problem with your saw.

In addition you received a poorly packaged and protected replacement, as well as finding that the bolts are too short.

You seem quite philosophical about the outcome however. I would have been expecting in house service by a Tech, free of charge.

After your experiences with this purchase, what do you feel the vendor did for your situation that you would purchase another piece of machinery from them?

(I'm not being smart, I truly am in interested in your answer).

Regards, Rod.

[Mark McGee]

I want to respond to the last couple of posts in this thread. Specifically why I buy Grizzly.

In the last six months I have done a major shop upgrade consisting mostly of Grizzly tools. Some of the tools required a call to customer service and one required a letter to Grizzly management. But in all cases, my problems were resolved to my satisfaction.

I think the quality of Grizzly is in the same class as most other suppliers, as they are most all made in Taiwan or China now. Generally quality is good. Good manuals, good paintwork, good fit (with a few exceptions such as my G0548 dust collector) and finish . Even the labels and paintwork are first class now.

And with Grizzly, I feel like I am getting a 'deal' because I buy direct from the importer.

As for the G0651 trunnions and mechanisms, I am posting some more pictures. The trunnions are not as wide as some I have seen, but I'm not sure they need to be wider. The adjustment mechanisms feel good with heavy iron handwheels and lock screws. I did have to replace the trunnion bolts because they were too short for my liking. But I am happy with the saw after owning it for about 4 months now.

[Mark McGee]

I have been using this saw for about five months now and am very pleased with it. Here are some more pictures.

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