Do they still make TS fences like this?

[dan sherman]

When I was a kid, I learned to use a TS on my dad's 9" Delta. The one thing I loved about that old saw was that the Fence locked at both ends. Once you locked it down it didn't matter how hard you pushed, the fence wouldn't budge.

I found this photo on the net that shows what I mean. The large knob locks the in-feed side, and the small one locks the out-feed.

Do they still make fences like this? I want to upgrade my Delta TS350, and I can't find anything with dual locks.

[Pat Germain]

Actually, Dan, such fences are less than optimal. When a TS fence clamps at both ends, it usually ends up clamping off kilter. My Craftsman saw came with a fence that clamped at both ends, as many low-end saws do. Sure, once it was clamped it wouldn't move. But since it would invariably clamp crooked, it was pretty much useless.

Notice all high end fences, Unifence and Bies for example, clamp only at the front. If it's a well designed fence, it won't move and will clamp in alignment with the mitre slot.

[Alan Schwabacher]

Because the T-square type fences lock down consistently, the old jet-lock fences are readily available very cheaply from people who have upgraded from them to T-square fences. If you placed a "wanted to buy" ad in your local Craigslist, I'm sure you would find people close by willing to sell you one. Just keep in mind why they are available when you decide what kind of fence you want, and how much to pay.

[jason lambert]

What dan said, being not parelle with the blade gives a much bigger chance for kickback making that type of fence more dangress I would try to upgrade or retrofit a new fence. Should be pretty easy you just need to mount the new rails.

[dan sherman]

Actually, Dan, such fences are less than optimal. When a TS fence clamps at both ends, it usually ends up clamping off kilter.

Notice all high end fences, Unifence and Bies for example, clamp only at the front. If it's a well designed fence, it won't move and will clamp in alignment with the mitre slot.


I could see some skewing if it used a screw type mechanism, but I think if it used a lever action at both ends it would stay square. I believe this is why all the new fences are lever action.

The high end fences are good, but they still move around when you run a 4'x8' sheet of MDF.

[Alex Carrera]

I use a quick grip to clamp down the end of my Uni-fence when I am worried about it deflecting. I can't think that there would be an easier way to get one of those old fences parallel to the blade.

[Greg Cole]

My Incra TS fence can be locked in 3 places without losing any measurable accuracy. The positioner locks and there is a hand knob to lock the front of the fence and you can lock the rear with an allen key (same mechanism as the front lock, but not used as much hence the lack of the hand knob).
Locking the positiioner and the front fence lock is plenty solid for most tasks for my TS. If I lock all 3 points a full sheet of 3/4" MDF will not budge it (and I handle sheet goods solo with 96" rails).

FWIW.
Greg

[Peter Quinn]

Powermatic used to make a jig that attaches to the fence (side opposite the blade) for use with a power feeder, I had one in my hands from a close out rack at a local discount tool place and kick my self each time I realize what I passed up. But not too hard of a kick because with a simple plywood scrap jig and a big bessey clamp I achieve the same results. You don't need to LOCK the fence, you just need a block on the other side of the fence that keeps it from toeing out, at least with a powerfeed.

I'm going to be honest, if you are toeing your fence out significantly ripping sheet goods, I'd consider getting a better fence or rethinking your technique, because the fence on my saw does not move ripping sheet goods (full 4X8 sheets) or under most non power fed operations. I'm just not applying enough lateral force to move that fence, just enough to keep the sheet on the fence, and most of that close to the front rails, about half way between the front of the table and the blade.

[Vince Shriver]

If you think you may have a problem with the fence moving out of alignment with a particular cut, you can simply put a clamp on the back end of the fence. With today's TS fences I think that movement may be a non-issue - but if you feel better knowing that the fence cannot move, use the clamp.

[Don Bullock]

I sure hope that they don't make fences like that any more. My 1970s era Craftsman had one. It was a pain to adjust, especially getting the fence parallel to the blade. I'm amazed that I never had any problems with kick back when I used it. That fence was one of the reasons the LOML told me to buy my SawStop. She saw how frustrating it was to adjust one day when she was helping me hold some wood while I was cutting it.;):D

[Neal Clayton]

if it's support on the outfeed side you want, vega fences come with a rail on the outfeed side that has a bracket you can put against said rail.

[Bart Leetch]

There were many different fences on Sears Craftsmen saws.

I had an Aligna-Rip fence on my 1997 contractors saw. When I gave it away I kept the fence & replaced it with a Ridgid TS24/24 fence we purchased on line that Dad had on his 1957 Craftsman contractors saw. When I put the Aligna-Rip on Dad's saw it was dead on with no adjustment necessary. Just like it had been on my saw. My fence has a aluminum plate on the bottom of the front end of the fence than mounted on the shoe that sat on the rail & is fastened with 4 allen bolts with large flat heads down through the plate into the shoe. I aligned the fence & clamped it down & then put locktite on the 4 bolts & tightened them down this is one of the steps that many people missed & the fence would not stay square to the rail, miter slots & blade.I got a kick out of Dad he picked up the front rail from my saw & said wow that rail is heavier then the entire Ridgid fence system. This old Craftsman is as good or better than many newer contractor saws. I have the original 1 HP motor but
Dad had the saw set up with a 2 HP motor that works real good.

[dan sherman]

Thanks for all the feedback guys, it was very enlightening. I think I will use Alex's method until I'm ready to shell out the cash for a new fence.

[Rod Sheridan]

I have a General 650 with a General T square fence (biessemeyer).

It locks up perfectly even when using a power feeder for ripping.

I've had the same complaints as everyone else with the fences that lock at the front and the back, they never lock up parallel twice.

If you look at high end European machinery, the fences have a single point mounting like a Biessemeyer, must be a good reason for so many premium products to use similar single point mounting systems.

Also a single point locking system allows a short fence to be used where it would improve the safety during ripping.

Regards, Rod.

[Mike Sheppard]

My Shop Fox has a fence that looks a lot like that and locks at both ends, it does not move when locked down.
Mike

[Jacob Reverb]

The high end fences are good, but they still move around when you run a 4'x8' sheet of MDF.

I seriously doubt that you could move the far end of my Powermatic 64's Accu-Fence more than a couple thousandths of an inch if you turned the tablesaw on its side and STOOD on the side of the fence. The channel iron that the fence is made from is probably 1/8" thick and about 3" wide, fer cryin' out loud.

Who pushes that hard against a fence, anyway? For that matter, who's strong enough to gorilla-around a 4'x8' sheet of MDF by himself?

[David G Baker]

My old Craftsman fence was extremely accurate after I measured over from the slots on my saw top and used a hammer to align it front to back every time I moved the fence. A new fence was my first major saw upgrade.

[Brian Smith3]

The Ridgid contractor saw fence I believe locks down on the front and back. The inexpensive contractor fences I have heard do deflect (from a friend that used to use some model of the Jet fence). Though I have used many Biese fences that only lock from the front and never had it move on me. For a contractor saw I don't think you can beat the Ridgid fence system.

Just a note. The below quote takes maybe 5 seconds to read, but it would have saved me an entire weekend of attempting to adjust the table alignment on my first Craftsman contractor saw 10 or so years ago.

There is no rhyme or reason to how the fence will skew and it's a very frustrating process to discover that on your own. You can set the fence up using a quality square but at the very final moment of securing it, it will move very slightly and your cut will not be square. Hopefully this advice saves someone a weekend of frustration and scrap lumber. :(


Actually, Dan, such fences are less than optimal. When a TS fence clamps at both ends, it usually ends up clamping off kilter. My Craftsman saw came with a fence that clamped at both ends, as many low-end saws do. Sure, once it was clamped it wouldn't move. But since it would invariably clamp crooked, it was pretty much useless.

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[Bart Leetch]

Originally Posted by Pat Germain View Post

"Actually, Dan, such fences are less than optimal. When a TS fence clamps at both ends, it usually ends up clamping off kilter. My Craftsman saw came with a fence that clamped at both ends, as many low-end saws do. Sure, once it was clamped it wouldn't move. But since it would invariably clamp crooked, it was pretty much useless."


On most of this style fence if you square them up at assembly & use locktite then just push them against the guide rail as you clamp them they will clamp straight. As I said before I have one that is eleven years old & it clamped straight every time I never had any problem. This is like riding a bicycle if you know what to do & do it the results are the same every time.

The big problem with these fences is the lack of instruction to use locktite at assembly. My fence had all the classic problems before I reassembled it with locktite & learned to push it lightly against the guide rail as I locked it down. These fences are light & glide well on the guide rail & rear support. I also have a Shop Fox Biesmeyer style fence on my Unisaw So I have both style fences & can get along well with both.

[Wayne Cannon]

It's not hard to move the far end of a Beisemeyer T-square fence 1/32" (even 1/16" if you push hard). The fence doesn't bend, but the "T" cross-piece at the front has a tiny bit of give that is amplified by the much longer length of the fence itself. It's enough that I make a conscious effort to apply only enough sideways force on 4'x8' sheet to keep it against the fence, and no more.