is dna the best?

[curtis rosche]

i was thinking, is dna really the best thing to use to dry wet wood? i mean, gasoline is cheaper(by a lot), less flamible (by a little bit), has the same evaporitive properties as dna, at least i think it does, gasoline has a different smell but that shouldnt matter. i dont think you could use any of the dyed gasolines, that might change the wood color. i am not planning on trying this since i havent set up shop yet. but i think that unless information can be found on this subject, that it would be worth trying with some cheap wood.

[robert hainstock]

Dna absorbs water. Gas floats on top and also burns much better. Stick to DNA.:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
Bob

[curtis rosche]

but isnt dna basically the same stuff they use for racing fuels? meaning its more flamible?

i guess it wouldnt it pull the water out and down to the bottom of the bucket?

[Joe Chritz]

DNA is grain alcohol that is denatured (made undrinkable). It is otherwise the same chemically as any other alcohol used for drinking.

Obviously there are other chemical stuff involved but at the basic form it is ethanol. The same ethanol used as E85 fuel or an additive in racing fuels.

The reason alcohol fuels impart more energy isn't directly related to the flammability. It has to do with the ideal/fuel air ratio. That has some fancy name that I don't remember.

Maybe a chemist will be along to give the differences between gasoline and DNA but since they are made from two entirely different processes I doubt they would be comparable.

Joe

[Dennis Peacock]

Curtis,

As Joe has already pointed out....DNA by it's chemical makeup will help encapsulate water molecules and aid in the drying process of green/wet wood. Gasoline is not what you want to put your bowls into as it doesn't do the same thing as DNA. DNA is exactly like EVERCLEAR Pure Grain Alcohol, but you can't drink DNA as it will kill you or make your VERY sick. You can, however, drink Everclear.....but be ready for the after effects. DAMHIKT!!!! From 28 years ago. ;) :D

[Bernie Weishapl]

Curtis I have been using DNA when I clean clocks. I use a water based cleaner and rinse twice in water. I use the DNA to displace and absorb the water then put it in the air dryer. DNA absorbs the water and displaces it. It does the same thing in wood. Gasoline will displace water off something but not inside something like wood. Curtis don't even think about using gasoline.:eek::eek::eek: If gasoline was so good for drying it would have been tried long before now.

[curtis rosche]

ok, just a thought

[Jim Becker]

"Bang"..... ;)

BTW, there is NO "best" method for encouraging moisture to leave the wood faster. But there are plenty of choices. Try each that appeals to you to find what works best for your particular needs.

[Jon Lanier]

"Bang"..... ;)



ROTFL... :p

After reading all those.... you 'hit' my funny bone.

-Jon

[Nathan Hawkes]

DNA is a mix of ethanol and methanol--just enough methanol to be toxic, IIRC. I think methanol is the form of alcohol used in alcohol dragsters, not ethanol, which is added to gasoline. I googled methanol & its known as "wood alcohol". Interesting.....

[Reed Gray]

Curtis,
I am one of those who feel that alcohol, and the LDD (soap) soakings do nothing to help wood dry faster, or to keep it stable, and this is the conclusions drawn from drying several hundred bowls in DNA, and several thousand bowls in LDD. I even went so far as to cut 3 identical sets of Madrone bowls, and dry them and weigh them every day until they reached equilibrium (as dry as they would get). The results were identical, about 10 days. I turn thin, to finish thickness, and then let them dry and warp. I haven't tried this on thick turned bowls, which you dry and then return later.

All this being said, I have wondered why the DNA method seems to work so well for some. I long figured it could have some thing to do with the wrapping the outside in paper, leaving the inside open, and letting it dry. I did one test run on some cherry, and some Madrone the most difficult to dry wood I have found. I turned 40 or so bowls out of these woods and dried them with some sort of outside wrap, and turned them all thicker than I would normally do. I wrapped some in paper, and then used the plastic film that you wrap boxes in to keep them from falling off a pallet, around the rim to hold the paper in place. This worked very well. I wrapped some totally in plastic, but kept the inside of the bowl open. These took longer than the paper ones, but again this worked very well, and there was no condensation under the plastic. I wrapped just the rim of some bowls, and left the rest open. This also worked well. I left some knots in some of the Madrone bowls which would normally guarantee failure. Only one bowl cracked out of about 40 total. This is much better than normal.

At present, I think that this works for 2 reasons. One is protecting the rim. Soren Berger, did a demo in our area, and stated that any square/sharp edge on a bowl or a cylinder will increase risk of cracking because the sharp edge will lose water quicker than the rest of the wood. I saw Christian Burschard (spell???) and he would put tape over the edges of his paper thin Madrone vessels for the same reason. The plastic film covering the edge gives the same protection, and some compression which also protects.

The other reason is the theory that by drying the bowl from the inside out, as the inside drys and shrinks, it pulls the outside into it, again causing compression on your bowls.

Maybe by the time I have done a thousand or so bowls this way, I can verify whether this is theory or fact.

I still use the LDD because it makes the warped bowls easier to sand out than either air dried or DNA dried woods. The DNA actually makes the wood harder to sand in my experience.

Anyone care to air dry a thick bowl and wrap without soaking, and with soaking?

robo hippy

[tim mathis]

reed gray,
thanks for your post,
i have been having a hard time drying some wood and getting good results.
what is LDD?
thanks tim m.

[Richard Madison]

stoiciometric, miscible, and liquid dishwashing detergent.

What is ROTFL?

[Bernie Weishapl]

ROTFL is rolling on the floor laughing.

[Richard Madison]

Thanks Bernie.

[Reed Gray]

For the LDD soak, 1/2 water, 1/2 cheap brown or yellow soap, soak for 24 hours minimum, then rinse lightly, then dry.
robo hippy

[Nathan Hawkes]

I'm intrigued with the LDD thing. Does it create any problems with different finishes later down the line? Also, what is the difference in drying time between LDD and DNA? Seems like a possibly better (not to mention cheaper!!!!) method. Too bad I just ordered a 5 gallon can of DNA from the hardware store. DOH.

[Thane Duncan]

The reason that water and ethanol work to aid drying is that they readily form an azeotrope. Now you have a fancy word to use next time people are arguing the merits of this and that.

TD

[Reed Gray]

Nathan,
There were no measurable differences in drying times for the air dried, LDD soaked, or DNA soaked bowls in my test, and in general with my observations with drying a lot of bowls. I have applied both walnut oil and penetrating Danish oil (Deft), and had no problems. I don't spray anything, so don't know if there are any differences that way, but doubt it. Again, I have never used these methods on thick turned bowls that you return when dry. The soaks could make a difference there, but I don't turn that style. Usually, I turn to 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick, and drying time is about 10 days.
robo hippy

[Nathan Hawkes]

Thanks for the info. Do you complete the sanding first, or after the soak? I guess mostly I was asking for the turn thick and return later method. I have a lot of wood that I'd like to rough out and turn later, that's starting to check even though it is sealed with wax.

[Ben Gastfriend]

Curtis- stick with DNA, it works the best.

[Reed Gray]

I sand after the soak, when the wood is dry. For thick turned blanks, or any green wood, if it drys too slow it molds, if it drys too fast, it cracks, and some pieces will just crack. Don't leave any square/sharp edges. Seal the end grain:anchor seal, wax, plastic film and paper or tape. Control the drying speed: on the floor in a cool spot in the garage or shop, bag it:either plastic and/or paper, with or without shavings, burried in shavings. The exact method you use will depend on your local weather. It is different in Arizona, and Arkansas, and Oregon. You may have to experiment to see what works for you.
robo hippy

[Matt Hutchinson]

I know the details of DNA drying, I just haven't tried it yet. But since you seem to be wondering what drying process is 'best', I thought I'd pipe up.

There simply isn't enough evidence compiled scientifically to know if DNA drying is truly the best. Does it work, yes indeed. How much does it actually decrease the drying time, I don't know. I used to think that it had to, however, over the last 6 months I have been making interesting observations on my air drying rough bowls. I have a moisture meter, and I've been able to monitor their MC (moisture content). The warmer weather alone has decreased their drying time dramatically. In fact, I have a 16" hard maple bowl that's 1" thick and it went from full moisture content down to 16 percent or less in under a month, no cracks. That's a lot of moisture! This leads me to believe that climate plays a more significant role in the drying process than DNA does. Down the road I plan on making a rough bowl kiln to control their drying environment. Right now I have a suspicion that it won't take longer than DNA to dry these bowl blanks.

Obviously, I don't have scientific evidence to back up this opinion....yet. :D

So, I guess my basic point is keep up whatever you're doing, but realize that air drying may be about as fast as DNA, and it's free.

Hutch

P.S. I have found small bowls, 10" and under, air dry quite quickly, especially if you skim off the sealer once they lose the bulk of their moisture.

[Reed Gray]

What I would really like to try is to set up a vacuum chamber. I have some lumber that was dried that way, and it is wonderful. Keeps its color, and cuts like air dried lumber (rip a board on your table saw, and you get shavings, not dust). That would be the only other method that I haven't tried yet.
robo hippy

[curtis rosche]

im sticking with dna, but it was just something i wondered about