Air brush

[Dave Lehnert]

Kinda new around this part of Sawmill. Looking to learn airbrushing an thought this would be the place to ask.

What is a good basic brush to start with that is not high dollar. I guess around $60????? I have a cheap harbor freight $4.99 Job. Is that usable to get my feet wet?
A web page with basic info to get me going would be great. Basic as in computers 101. "This is the power button"

Thanks!

[Joe Pelonio]

Goodness, a $4.99 airbrush?!??!

I have a couple that were well over a hundred, but really don't work any better than the four I bought later from an online place. Actually they came as a set with the pump which I use for my laser. For airbrushing I use a regular compressor now.

Anyway, it's:

http://airbrushcity.com/

They sell everything including videos. I'd recommend single action for a beginner, which is also cheaper. You can try the one from HB, and it may not be bad, but cheap ones have a way of cracking or the needle gets bent easily.

For some tips on airbrushing and a LOT of other sign stuff:

http://www.letterville.com/steps/

[Mike Null]

I pretty much agree with Joe and have a couple of pricey ones but I use my 4.99 HF unit for sealing wood before engraving or even after engraving if I have a mask on it.

[Scott Shepherd]

I'm glad you brought this topic up, I was about to post an airbrush question myself.

I got an airbrush, Paasche VL series airbrush about 4-5 years ago. I also got a compressor, Scorpion I, 40PSI max. Since the day I got it, I've not been able to get it to work.

For the first week, after much pain, I determined I had the wrong type paint. It was too thick. I bought some paint directly from Paasche, worked for a couple minutes, then it was hit and miss. Sometimes you pull the trigger and it sprays good, sometimes it doesn't.

Tried thinning the paint (water based), and it was so thin, it had almost no color left. Not sure I want to put 73 coats to get the right color :)

Finally had enough, put it away and left it. I'd come back to it every few months with a new plan. Same result each time. Bought new needle valves and parts, tried again. Same result.

I'll be darned if I can get it to spray anything. I bought new bottles, made sure the air holes are open, everything. I went on many a forums and saw people saying how easy it is. You just put paint in it and spray. Well, after 4 or 5 years of having it now, I've never been able to use it yet successfully.

My last thought was my compressor isn't the right one, but in looking at the spec's, it should be more than enough to do it.

I tried it about a month ago, and I couldn't even get it to spray thinner! (No, I'm not kidding, it just sat and blew bubbles back into the jar. That was with a brand new needle and tip installed). It's like it won't prime and I can't get it to prime.

What am I missing?

[Dee Gallo]

The absolute easiest airbrush to learn on is the single action Paasche model H. (around $60) If you get the #3 tip, you can paint both fine lines and large areas, much more versatile than either the #1 or #5 tips. I use mine with a #5 all the time, but I have a lot of experience. This airbrush is simple to clean and use, can handle all kinds of paint and needs about 40 pounds of pressure (although a lot of us like about 50-60# depending on need) to do a nice spray pattern.

You can step up later to an Iwata, which is a super airbrush, one of my favorites. Double action airbrushes are popular but harder to control and for beginners not worth the trouble to clean. I have taught hundreds of people to airbrush and the results you can get with a single action are as good as a double action if you know what you are doing, with a lot less unpredictable accidents along the way. Stay away from plastic tipped brushes, they wear fast and are too light in the hand.

One tip you should try is to ALWAYS put one drop of thinner/water into the bowl before putting in any paint. This will help "prime" the airbrush, especially if using white, the worst enemy of the airbrush painter. A lot of people like to screen their paint before using it too, since any tiny chunk or thickness in the paint will clog your brush. When cleaning the siphon, use a pipe cleaner with little metal hairs in it.

Finally, always paint DRY! The paint should be basically touchable when it hits the substrate. Caterpillars are caused by using too much paint for the distance from the surface. This is common for beginners who are trying to put more paint on faster than it should be applied... this is not a can of spray paint. You don't want it to flow unless you are using lacquer. Too much paint will seep under your mask and ruin the job.

Hope this helps a bit, please feel free to PM me with any questions, dee

[Dee Gallo]

I'm glad you brought this topic up, I was about to post an airbrush question myself.

I got an airbrush, Paasche VL series airbrush about 4-5 years ago. I also got a compressor, Scorpion I, 40PSI max. Since the day I got it, I've not been able to get it to work.

For the first week, after much pain, I determined I had the wrong type paint. It was too thick. I bought some paint directly from Paasche, worked for a couple minutes, then it was hit and miss. Sometimes you pull the trigger and it sprays good, sometimes it doesn't.

Tried thinning the paint (water based), and it was so thin, it had almost no color left. Not sure I want to put 73 coats to get the right color :)

Finally had enough, put it away and left it. I'd come back to it every few months with a new plan. Same result each time. Bought new needle valves and parts, tried again. Same result.

I'll be darned if I can get it to spray anything. I bought new bottles, made sure the air holes are open, everything. I went on many a forums and saw people saying how easy it is. You just put paint in it and spray. Well, after 4 or 5 years of having it now, I've never been able to use it yet successfully.

My last thought was my compressor isn't the right one, but in looking at the spec's, it should be more than enough to do it.

I tried it about a month ago, and I couldn't even get it to spray thinner! (No, I'm not kidding, it just sat and blew bubbles back into the jar. That was with a brand new needle and tip installed). It's like it won't prime and I can't get it to prime.

What am I missing?

Scott -

It sounds like you are missing a seal somewhere. Check the tip that screws off and look for a small rubber o-ring. If it's missing, that will cause blow-back. There should also be a seal inside between the body and the tip. Make sure the tip is screwed on tight. Also, check to make sure your siphon is clean. A clog there will cause blow-back too.

Good luck, dee

[Joe Pelonio]

Scott, your problem can also be caused by a bent needle, and that's hard to see by just looking at it. For cleaning I have had good luck with filling the cup with a cleaner like 409 (thinner first for oil based paint) and then spraying it out, occasionally holding a rag over the tip to backwash it. If you don't take it apart as often it's not as likely to get bent. Make sure too that the tiny air inlet hole on top of the bottle is not clogged, and always strain the paint.

With my cheap ones I spray acrylic latex (house paint) with just a little water added at 30 lbs.

[Scott Shepherd]

Thanks for the input. Sounds like I covered all of those. It hasn't had a teaspoon of paint sprayed though it, I can't get the paint to spray, so it's almost always me putting paint in, trying to get it to spray, then me taking it apart and cleaning it because I couldn't get the paint to spray.

I've got new needles (not to mention the brand new one's that it came with I couldn't get to work), new tip, brand new bottles, hole on bottle is lined up and clear. I can't even get it to siphon up paint thinner, and it's been like that since day 1. I think I've had it spray paint for about 2 minutes total since I have had it.

It's not that many moving parts in it, and I've had it completely apart.

It's one of those things that just makes me feel so stupid every time I pick it up. Sure would be nice to figure out. I've thought about buying another gun just to give it a try.

I've tried Createx (is that the name? Made for airbrush) and Paasche paints, along with one shot thinned 50/50, and I've added 30% water to the paints just to see if I could get them to spray. Nothing but sputtering.

[Joe Pelonio]

Thanks for the input. Sounds like I covered all of those. It hasn't had a teaspoon of paint sprayed though it, I can't get the paint to spray, so it's almost always me putting paint in, trying to get it to spray, then me taking it apart and cleaning it because I couldn't get the paint to spray.


Something is wrong with it. Possibly as simple as a clog from dried paint left the first time you used it that you cannot get to now, but could even be a factory defect. It does spray air? Does it have a gauge, so you know the pressure is what it's supposed to be?

I'd suggest that you do buy an inexpensive one and try it. You could also find someone nearby that uses an airbrush and have them try it. Once you get one that works I know you'll use it a lot.

[Dee Gallo]

Scott,

I'm with Joe - there must be something wrong with the brush, maybe just a bad cast or something, but you should email them <info@paascheairbrush.com> and see if they will replace it. Better yet, see if they will trade it for an H. Then you won't have the needle to worry about and it's a lot easier to keep clean. Airbrushes should really be cleaned right down to the metal every time you use them. You might take it to a store which sells airbrushes and see if they have a person there who can test it for you. I'd do it for you, but I'm WAY too far away, sorry.

One last thing I thought of: when you pull the trigger back, does the needle move? There is a needle locknut which might be loose, or the needle spring could be too tight. If the needle does move, neither of these are the problem.

cheers, dee

[joe lehnert]

Hey Bro. let loose of some of the big bucks. Get you a good one.:p

[Dave Lehnert]

Hey Bro. let loose of some of the big bucks. Get you a good one.:p
My Birthday is next month. I will hold off till you get me one.:)

[Dave Lehnert]

The absolute easiest airbrush to learn on is the single action Paasche model H. (around $60) If you get the #3 tip, you can paint both fine lines and large areas, much more versatile than either the #1 or #5 tips. I use mine with a #5 all the time, but I have a lot of experience. This airbrush is simple to clean and use, can handle all kinds of paint and needs about 40 pounds of pressure (although a lot of us like about 50-60# depending on need) to do a nice spray pattern.

You can step up later to an Iwata, which is a super airbrush, one of my favorites. Double action airbrushes are popular but harder to control and for beginners not worth the trouble to clean. I have taught hundreds of people to airbrush and the results you can get with a single action are as good as a double action if you know what you are doing, with a lot less unpredictable accidents along the way. Stay away from plastic tipped brushes, they wear fast and are too light in the hand.

One tip you should try is to ALWAYS put one drop of thinner/water into the bowl before putting in any paint. This will help "prime" the airbrush, especially if using white, the worst enemy of the airbrush painter. A lot of people like to screen their paint before using it too, since any tiny chunk or thickness in the paint will clog your brush. When cleaning the siphon, use a pipe cleaner with little metal hairs in it.

Finally, always paint DRY! The paint should be basically touchable when it hits the substrate. Caterpillars are caused by using too much paint for the distance from the surface. This is common for beginners who are trying to put more paint on faster than it should be applied... this is not a can of spray paint. You don't want it to flow unless you are using lacquer. Too much paint will seep under your mask and ruin the job.

Hope this helps a bit, please feel free to PM me with any questions, dee

Thanks for the info. I know this is a basic question but what is the difference between a single and double action and why would I use one over the other.

[Scott Shepherd]

Thanks Dee and Joe, I'll pull it out and give it one last time and then start looking for other options like you mentioned.

Dave, it's clear I'm no airbrush guru, so this might not be correct- Single action is where you push the button and air and paint come at the same time. Dual Action is where you can push the button down and only air comes out, then you pull the button (trigger) back slightly and it starts the paint flowing. It's "supposed" to give you more control over the painting, as you can get the air flowing and have very fine control over when the paint comes out and when it doesn't.

I wouldn't know because I can't get the paint to come out at all :D

[Dee Gallo]

Dave-

The difference between single action and double action is simple: one handed or two handed control over the air and paint flow.

A DA brush allows you to push a button for air and pull the trigger back for paint, hence one handed operation. This leaves your other hand free for mask manipulation. It requires more control of your drawing/painting skills and does not give you more control over a SA if you have mastered the basic skills. It's a matter of personal preference.

A SA brush allows you to set the airflow if you wish, so you can just floor it and get the right flow. You would hold it as you would a pistol, one hand on top and one hand underneath. The top hand controls the air and the bottom hand can turn the cone to control the paint flow. It is a more stable way to paint, as you can pull your elbows in to create a very steady base and avoid the shaking that a lot of DA brush users experience. Your heartbeat can actually affect the aim.

BOTH types of airbrush rely on your distance from the substrate, speed of movement over the surface, viscosity of the paint and type of mask (or no mask) you use.

The SA brush is easier to clean and maintain, less likely to be damaged, although you have to be careful not to shut down the cone so hard that it splits. The DA has a needle which must be maintained clean and straight, more seals (some beeswax) and is more complex to take down completely and get back together correctly.

A gravity feed brush (cup on top) is also less likely to clog, easier to change and mix colors quickly, but holds very little paint in comparison to a siphon feed brush (cup on bottom), which is the more commonly used design for beginners.

Why would you use one over the other? In my opinion, a SA brush is a more predictable airbrush with less possible things to go wrong. It also forces you to use 2 hands for fine work which is where you need stability, while at the same time allows one handed use for large areas.

HTH, dee

[Dave Lehnert]

Ok! Not trying to be cheap or anything but....... I was in Harbor Freight today and they had what "looked" to be a better made Air gun for $19.99. Model 95810. I did a search on the web and found one guy who said it was an exact copy of a Badger 155 air gun. Said it worked as well as the higher priced guns. It is a Double action gun and the HF gun was made in Japan. Anyone ever use the Harbor Freight 95810. I am all ready to get the Paasche model H. $60 is not all that bad but just starting out you know how that goes in a month I will be into something else, But maybe not??????

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/95800-95899/95810.gif

[Dave Lehnert]

They also had available the same gun in a 6 gun kit, hose, gun stand for 129.99. Item 95923.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/95900-95999/95923.gif

[Mike Null]

I have the HF $4.99 model and I use it for shellac. It works just fine.

[Joe Pelonio]

Here's the $22 ones I got from Airbrush City and have had good luck with

http://www.airbrushcity.com/1404_pen_lg.jpg

[Dee Gallo]

Dave,

Just so you are forewarned, that Badger model is tricky to clean... I have one. It's a nice brush, good for detail, but if you don't hold the button down when you pull the needle, the inside mechanism (spring, lever) moves out of whack and it's a bear to get those little pieces back in place. It's also not great for heavy paints.

The brush Joe showed us looks like a good starter for a cheap price. It looks like it would do the job just fine to get you going.

Sounds like you at least have some options now, good luck, dee

[Dave Lehnert]

Thanks to all. Yes! a lot of info.

Is the air brush paint you buy in the little bottles already thinned, ready to use? $3-$4 a bottle I think it cost.

[Joe Pelonio]

If you mean specifically airbrush paint like Createx, yes, it's ready to spray and does not need thinning. Watch out for normal acrylic paints that also come in small bottles, mostly with a pointed cap, those can also be used in an airbrush but may need thinning.