Need red oak finishing advice

[Kevin Swindle]

I am in the process of building a mission style bed using red oak. I need some advice on how to seal and finish the red oak. I was considering sealing with shellac and finishing with tung oil. Does this sound like the proper why to go? Thanks in advance for any comments.

Kevin

[Lynn Sonier]

My favorite way is to apply Minwax Antique oil with triple 0 steel wool, wipe dry after about a half hour, and apply wax with, you guessed it, steel wool. I have gotten plenty of compliments from my customers with this finish. I have to give credit to Carl Eyman for teaching me the method.

[Chris Padilla]

Kevin,

What is your goal for finishing? Do you want it baby-butt smooth (i.e. fill in the large pores) or do you want it natural color? Any staining? What kind of protection (poly?) do you feel you need?

Shellac is always a good first coat since you can put anytihng on top of it. The tung oil may liven up the wood but it isn't fantastic protection by itself. Wax, also, isn't a durable finish but it depends on how the wood will be used.

Pick up or look at Bob Flexner's book Understanding wood finishes (or something like that).

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I just got home with 337 BF of Red Oak for a big entertainment center job. I am going to stain with Minwax Natural, the use water based poly (2 coats). This makes the grain pop nicely, but doesn't color the wood.

[Gene Collison]

Lynn,

Curious to know which flavor wax you are using with the Minwax antique oil. Your technique sounds like something I'd like to try. Thanks....

Gene

[Kevin Swindle]

Kevin,

What is your goal for finishing? Do you want it baby-butt smooth (i.e. fill in the large pores) or do you want it natural color? Any staining? What kind of protection (poly?) do you feel you need?

Shellac is always a good first coat since you can put anytihng on top of it. The tung oil may liven up the wood but it isn't fantastic protection by itself. Wax, also, isn't a durable finish but it depends on how the wood will be used.

Pick up or look at Bob Flexner's book Understanding wood finishes (or something like that).


Chris,

What I am really looking for is to fill the grain. I think my wording "seal the grain" in my original post is incorrect. My inexperience is showing. I am looking for a nice smooth feel after finishing.

Thanks.

[Ray Thompson]

First I would recommend books by Jewitt, Flexner, or Dresdner. Second go to Jeff Jewitts web site at homesteadfinishing.com where he has a finishing forum that has a wealth of data. He also answers most questions himself so you get the data first hand. Ray

[Lynn Sonier]

Gene, I'm using Minwax paste wax.

[Jim Becker]

I was considering sealing with shellac and finishing with tung oil. Does this sound like the proper why to go?
Think about that for a moment. Assuming you mean "real" Tung oil, sealing the wood means the oil has nowhere to go. Oil finishes are meant to penetrate the wood. But even a "Tung Oil Finish" (which likely does not contain any Tung Oil at all or a minimal amount or a polymerized version which is not the same thing) usually looks best when it can interact with the wood. The latter is a varnish/oil mixture and provides both penetration (on the first coat) as well as a film finish.

It would be helpful if you can describe what kind of look you want to attain on your oak furniture since there are a lot of different finishing regimens you could use.

[Kevin Swindle]

Think about that for a moment. Assuming you mean "real" Tung oil, sealing the wood means the oil has nowhere to go. Oil finishes are meant to penetrate the wood. But even a "Tung Oil Finish" (which likely does not contain any Tung Oil at all or a minimal amount or a polymerized version which is not the same thing) usually looks best when it can interact with the wood. The latter is a varnish/oil mixture and provides both penetration (on the first coat) as well as a film finish.

It would be helpful if you can describe what kind of look you want to attain on your oak furniture since there are a lot of different finishing regimens you could use.

Jim,

I am looking for a natural look with a nice smooth feel. If it darkens a little with the oil, that will be OK. I think I confussed things from the start by saying I wanted to seal the pores. What I actually want is to fill the pores , I think :o. I'm lacking in experience when it comes to finishing so I hope I'm stating this correctly.
I am using tung oil I got from Woodcraft and the bottle says it's 100% pure Tung Oil, so I guess it's the real thing. The guy at Woodcraft suggested the shellac under the tung oil and said the tung oil would absorb through the shellac. I was not convinced after I thought about it and that is why I posted my original question. Thanks for your help.

[Jim Becker]

I am puzzled by why the fellow at the store would tell you that the oil would penetrate the shellac. Shellac is often used as a pre-stain conditioner and as a moisture barrier...to that end, you would get little or no penetration of the oil through it, depending on the "cut" of the shellac.

Since you want a "smooth" finish (and infer that you want to fill the grain) the Tung Oil probably isn't going to do much for you. It also takes a long time to cure and if not fully cured and you top coat with a film finish, you can get some nasty white spots, etc. Were it me, I'd put an application of BLO on the wood to give it a glow, let that cure for a few days, seal it with a coat of de-waxed shellac, use a clear (or tinted if you prefer) grain filler, and then top coat with the clear finish of your choice in the appropriate number of coats. The seal coat of shellac can impart color to the piece and you can make it slight or pronounced depending on the grade of shellac you use. Blond or super blond is almost clear; garnett will add a slight red-brown tone to it.

As always, take some scrap material (from the same stuff you used for the project if at all possible) and "practice" your finishing regimen to insure you will get the effect you want prior to working on the real project. Nobody likes to have to strip and refinish because something doesn't look right!

[Chris Padilla]

Jim,

I am looking for a natural look with a nice smooth feel. If it darkens a little with the oil, that will be OK. I think I confussed things from the start by saying I wanted to seal the pores. What I actually want is to fill the pores , I think :o. I'm lacking in experience when it comes to finishing so I hope I'm stating this correctly.
I am using tung oil I got from Woodcraft and the bottle says it's 100% pure Tung Oil, so I guess it's the real thing. The guy at Woodcraft suggested the shellac under the tung oil and said the tung oil would absorb through the shellac. I was not convinced after I thought about it and that is why I posted my original question. Thanks for your help.
Kevin,

Just for you, I read up in Bob Flexner's book last night. If you want to fill the pores (fill the grain), you will need to get a pore filler. You can fill the pores with shellac but it will just take several coats and you'll either need to sand each coat back a bit or after several coats, sand back a bit more. Your hand and a strong light source will tell you when you've filled the pores to your satisfaction. Shellac is a film finish and so it can be built up over successive layers.

As Jim suggested, practice what you think you want on some scrap. Perhaps try the BLO/Tung, let it dry a week, then try either several coats of shellac or pick up some grain/pore filler. Oil thorugh shellac doesn't make any sense to me either unless you sand back the shellac a bit to expose some wood but I'm not sure I "get this."

As a final suggestion (and I've already made it), go find Bob Flexner's book...it will answer all these questions for you. Amazon, a book store, a wood store, and the library are great places to search. This finsihing book should be the bible for woodworkers. Jeff Jewitt also has good books out. So far, I like Bob's the best.

[Kevin Swindle]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the good advice. Chris, I think I will try to get Bob's book tomorrow. I think I will try the BLO, tung oil, shellac. One last question, should shellac be the final coat or should follow it up with a wipe on poly or something similar?

Thanks again to all.

[Jim Becker]

I think I will try the BLO, tung oil, shellac.
Use either the BLO or tung oil, but not both. BLO is less expensive, cures quicker and is pretty much indestinguishable once on the wood.

[Chris Padilla]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the good advice. Chris, I think I will try to get Bob's book tomorrow. I think I will try the BLO, tung oil, shellac. One last question, should shellac be the final coat or should follow it up with a wipe on poly or something similar?

Thanks again to all.
Since you already have the Tung, use it first. BLO is cheaper. I guess you could use Tung and BLO although I'm not sure why. Perhaps you find you like it...never know. Finishing is an art once you learn the science.

Shellac can do just fine as a final coat and for a bed, it is probably okay. Bob's book will help you out immensely...soon you'll be providing advice for the next guy asking finishing questions! :)