Calling All VFD Experts....!!!

[Dick Strauss]

I want to buy a VFD for my lathe. I've got a 3hp inverter duty motor. I'm looking at two different products from AutomationDirect (AD) and FactoryMation (FM). The two products I'm coinsidering are the FM50-203-C ($185) from FM and the GS2-23P0 ($289) from AD. There is almost a $100 difference. Are the actual differences in the VFDs worth the extra $100?

Here are links to the two VFDs:
http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.198/.f?category=32 FM50-203

http://web1.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/AC_Drives/GS2_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control)/GS2_Drive_Units_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC)/GS2-23P0 GS2-23P0


Thanks in advance,
Dick

[Paul Engle]

Could be one made in the US and the other in ????? the spec's look the same tho.

[Brian Weick]

Dick,
:confused:If you are putting 3phase on the in-feed to the VFD I would say there is no problem in getting a 3hpVFD,but my guess is that you are feeding 230v single phase in. When you use single phase in I was told directly from the tech department at Yaskawa and a few others that you should double the hp rating as it will put a tremendous strain the VFD with single phase in if you match them up directly~ If I were you I would look into this before you buy your VFD to make sure you won't have any problems.

Brian

[Marc Martindale]

Both of those drives are spec'd for single phase or 3 phase, why would you have to derate them?

[M Toupin]

VFD's have changed a TON in the last few years and there's a lot of old (or just plain wrong) information being passed around the various forums.
Both of the VFD you listed are designed for single phase input, there is no need to derate them. There are situations were you would need to derate (generally above 5hp) but this is not the situation here.

I don't know anything about the GS2, but I took a quick 30 second look and it appears the main difference is the removable keypad. There's probably more, I just didn't spend time looking. The FM is a bare bones VFD, hence the cheap price. It works fine though. You'll probably want to buy or make a remote control station rather than controlling it directly from the unit itself. Just makes things easier. You can go as Fancy as you want with commercial grade switches, or go cheap with little radio shack toggle switches for a few bucks, you decide.

Check out the practical machinist transformers & VFD forum. There's a lot of good information over there with some folks that know what their talking about.

Mike

[Rich Souchek]

Hi dick,
Great to see your post.
Regarding the VFD, I have a 2 hp version of the Automation Direct and it is a good solid piece of equipment.
About 2 to 3 years ago, that was the going price and standard for VFD. Glad to see cheaper options available, since many of the functions of the AD unit aren't used for a simple lathe function.
Don't know anything about the other unit.
Rich S.

[Bob Hallowell]

Dick,
I have the 2hp www.factorymation.com (http://www.factorymation.com) one on my lathe. I was told by factorymation that I could put up to a 2hp motor on it and it works great.

Their sopport is good as I had a few question and you talk to a real person quickly. I made a remote that mounts on my lathe with a 10k pot and a 3 position fwd/off/rev sw that hooks on easily. I bought the switches from mcmaster.

Bob

[Brian Weick]

FYI ~ I replied to this because there are certain manufacturers that "do not" have the proper protection built into the drive unit when using "single phase" as an input and could result in a countless fault protection overrides and or damage to the unit itself. It is in your best interest to do your homework and calculations before purchasing a VFD.
For some reason , and it always amuses me when this topic comes up, some individuals believe that the applications for variable frequency drives are set in stone and they are all "the same" ~ that is not an accurate assumption at all. The outlying factor here is "do your research" and talk with the technical department of that specific company which you are considering for your VFD application. I talked directly with the tech department at Yaskawa before I purchased my VFD, I was going to get a 3 HP Yaskawa VFD ~ that would have resulted in some serious problems and damage to the unit and possibly my drive motor. I have a 3hp inverter duty Baldore motor running my lathe~ and Single phase 230v in~ write away the tech rep said it was "highly not recommended" and they could not guarantee the unit would not result in damaged components and Protection fault loops and would not cover the unit if damaged. After he explained how it works it was much clearer to me that it "in fact" is not an all for one application ~ it is based on the manufacturer of the VFD and how it was intended for use in various applications.
Certain comments and assumptions made by others on this question ~ that's OK~ to each his or her own opinion,however, my point was to be aware that not all VFD drives have the same specifications on input/output and this area is in fact a "Grey area". Just make sure that the specifications and loads are suitable for your application Dick.

Here is a small discussion about A VFD situation, one of thousands that you can find on VFD's ~ http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=81283
http://www.control.com/1026211551/index_html
Brian

[Dick Strauss]

Rich and Bob,
Thanks for the feedback! I was starting to worry that I needed a 5hp custom unit.


Take care,
Dick

[Bob Hallowell]

Rich and Bob,
Thanks for the feedback! I was starting to worry that I needed a 5hp custom unit.


Take care,
Dick

That's good, If you look at the manual it says a single phase 2hp unit can run a 2hp 3 phase motor.

BTW any 10k ohm pot will do you don't need to buy their expensive one this is the one I used it's the compact single turn one part number #7436K37 at www.mcmaster.com (http://www.mcmaster.com)

Bob

[Mike Minto]

forgive my ignorance, but WTH is a VFD? A BMOC? An ASAP? lotsa non tech types, like me here. thanks, mike

[Bob Hallowell]

forgive my ignorance, but WTH is a VFD? A BMOC? An ASAP? lotsa non tech types, like me here. thanks, mike

Mike,
a very basic terms a vfd is a "variable frequency drive" or also known as an "AC drive". They are normally used in manufacturing. What we turners use them for is to make our lathes variable speed. With the units most of us use we can take a 220 single phase input and it will put out a 3 phase 220 out to a 3 phase motor. Then we can control the frequency it puts out to our motor. IE... if the motor is a 1720 rpm running at 60hz then by changing the frequency to 20hz it would turn the motor shaft speed to 575rpm and so forth.

Most of your high end lathes have them installed and a few of us have picked up some nicer old lathes that work great but wanted variable speed with the twist of a knob.

Bob

[Mike Minto]

thanks for the info, Bob! Mike

[Rick Christopherson]

I went with the GS2 because it has more flexibility in the parameter settings and external I/O and can easily be set up to reuse your existing pushbutton controls. But the biggest issue was the detachable keypad. This allowed me to monitor the display (rpm, amps, etc.) while working and had the speed control within easy reach.

http://www.waterfront-woods.com/Projects/Lathe/RemoteDisplay2.jpg