bowl internal finish trouble....help please

[lynn smith]

I am still having trouble getting a smooth,even, no turning marks or small end grain tear outs for the finish on the inside of my turnings.

Thanks much

[Steve Schlumpf]

Lynn - photos of the problem area as well as what tools you use would help everyone come up with possible ideas for you to try. Also understand that tear out on the insides of bowls are a very common problem for most turners when starting out and has more to do with proper tool control than anything else. Give us a few more details and I'm sure someone will be able to help.

[Dick Latshaw]

What tool are you using for your finish cuts? Sometimes I can get a good finish cut with a freshly sharpened gouge. When I can't, I turn:D to my round nosed scraper to eliminate any ridges. I find a shear scrape will fix most anything. If that doesn't work, I pull out the 80 grit gouge.

If you don't have it, I recommend Bill Grumbine's DVD 'Turning Bowls Made Easy'.

[lynn smith]

Thanks
I will put together a detailed description with pics.

Thanks Dick I will check out Bill Grumbines DVD

HAPPY 4TH everyone

[Nathan Hawkes]

Like others have mentioned, it seems to all be about the use of the tools. I've been turning less than a year, but I'm getting very comfortable with my tools now. One little tool toy that I love is the Veritas scraper burnisher--I think I paid about $35 for it, and it was well worth it. It lets you burnish (roll) a burr on a HSS scraper. When you turn the scraper on its side, it makes a great shear scraper. You can get ultra,ultra fine wispy shavings & get a pretty fine finish on most green wood ready for 180 or 220 grit sandpaper with little end-grain prep with coarser grits. IME, don't use a burnished edge scraper with its nose facing down--catch time. I'm still a newbie, but if there's one good thing that I heard when I was frustrated at first, its "be patient with yourself". Easier said than done in my own case!!

[lynn smith]

I only have 7 months onder my belt.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Lynn get the Bill Grumbine DVD and if you can a video "From The Tree To The Table" by Mike Mahoney. He is a production turner of utility bowls, etc. and I had the pleasure of talking with him. He told me to buy a 3/8" and 1/2" P & N bowl gouges. These have what he called a conventional grind on them. Not the swept back. Every since I have these sharp and honed for the final 2 or 3 passes. It has eliminated about 90% of my tearout.

[Reed Gray]

I am still not able to get as good of a job cutting the inside of the bowl as I am the outside. I figure that it in part because the outside is more accessable. One helpful hint that I got was to relieve the bottom of the bevel on my gouges, or round them over. The concave shape of the inside of the bowl has you riding on the back and lower part of the bevel rather than up closer to the cutting edge, but if you round it over, it works a lot better. Some people will even grind a second bevel on the gouge, which does the same thing. I have also been using a shear scraper on both the outside and inside of a bowl for the finish cuts. Held flat, they will tear out more, but with a shear (45 degree angle) they can leave it very smooth, and take a grit or 2 out of your sanding steps. Of course, tecnique is very important as well. It takes little pressure on the tools to make the cuts, and if you practice the "every cut is a practice cut" idea, it will improve your final results.
robo hippy

[Allen Neighbors]

I agree with what Reed said, above. The second bevel has helped me also.
I also turn up the speed when making those last smoothing cuts, and use very light pressure on the tools. It also helps to give a coat of wax or lacquer wash before the final cuts.

[Matt Hutchinson]

Personally, I have not been able to get a good finish with scrapers on everyday domestic woods, though I have nothing against this technique.

I used to try to finish the insides with my large bowl gouge, which is 1/2" (5/8 shaft), but I couldn't get the bevel clearance I needed, even with a rounded heel. So I finally got another, smaller bowl gouge. I went with a 3/8" Henry Taylor Kryo, and it's made a huge difference. Not only has the smaller size allowed the bevel to clear easily, but the lack of mass in the shaft is actually advantageous. The lighter weight tool is more sensitive to incorrect technique, and I know exactly when I am starting to tear grain out. The large bowl gouge would just power through every kind of cut, absorbing all the vibration, and I never even felt when the tearout was occuring. However, even with the large gouge, I got a good finish with the liberal use of course grit sandpaper.

As far as the Bill Grumbine Video goes, I have to say that the techniques he demonstrates on finishing the inside have not given me as clean a surface as other techniques I have tried. But right now I am still figuring out which techniques are most effective for which parts of the inside surface of the bowl walls. Bill's video is definitely worth getting, but I recommend you use his techniques as a good starting point from which you develop and learn skills/cuts that works best for you.

Hutch

[Craig Powers]

Bernie,
Which P & N bowl gouge did you get? Craft supplies has two different type P&N's listed for each size. A regular and a Supa. I've been looking at these for the reason you described. I can't tell by the description which I should get. Here's the link:
http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/store/Turning_Tools___Bowl_and_Spindle_Tools___P_N___P_N _Bowl_Gouge___pn_bowl?Args=
Thanks

[lynn smith]

Thanks for all the helpful input.
Some of the technic that I have learned so far you have confirmed it to be correct.
I have increased the bevel on my 1/2 bowl gouge and I use the 1/2" round nose scaper to shear scrap using it at a 45-ish degree angle.
I also have used 80 to 100 grit to get the end grain and turning mark smoothed out.
I have read about turners who get the surface smoothed with their tools leaving very little sanding to do.
Happy Turning

[Gordon Seto]

Should be the open U flute bowl gouge. Jimmy Clewes demonstrates that in detail in his "Turn it up" DVD, from the tool grind etc.

http://www.thompsonlathetools.com/faq.asp
V Shape or U Shape that is the question!
If you ask 100 people the same question you’ll get 101 different answers. I prefer a V shape because the V shape flute can be very aggressive when roughing especially on green wood. When you need to remove a lot of stock when roughing a bowl or turning a hat where 99% of the blank ends up as shavings the V shape is the only way to go. The small nose radius is not grabby when entering a cut and can be used to create details. Because the wings tend to be longer on a V shape tool scraping is easily done on the outside of a bowl. In the past a V shape flute was known to clog with shavings, the design of this flute was changed so it doesn’t happen.

The U shape flute has some strong points especially when turning dry wood. The large nose radius allows the tool to shear the wood which is good to prevent tear out, the finish cut inside a bowl or long sweeping curves outside a turning are just two examples where this tool excels.

Edit: Should be "Turn It On" DVD, Jimmy Clewes' 1st 3-DVD set

[Darryl Hansen]

Try coating the inside with lacquer sanding dealer just before the final finishing. It will give the fibers some body and make the final cut smoother.