How much do u get paid?

[brett gallmeyer]

I'm getting ready to sell some pieces of outdoor furniture I have made. I posted a thread in the projects section with pictures. I was told in some replies that I wasnt asking enough for these pieces. ''labor'' my question is ''how much do u charge for labor or du u just tack on an $ amount per piece? Read the other thread it has some more deails. i would put a link in but im typing this on my smartphone right now at work.

Brett G.

[Peter Quinn]

I charge $45/hour shop rate for custom work for hours when machines are being run, as electricity, sharpening and maintenance are real costs which must be paid. For assembly time I charge $25/hour as glue and clamps are cheaper to operate. My medical insurance is covered by my spouse, my shop being in my home is rent free, my over head is low which keeps me competitive.

I charge for custom knives if required and add a percentage of tooling cost if acquisitions are required to complete a job outside of what I consider a normal well stocked shop, such as a crazy round over bit I may use infrequently. I charge delivery beyond 5 miles given fuel prices.

To labor I add materials used for the job plus shop materials (glue, screws, sandpaper, etc.) at about 3-5% of total materials cost depending on how material intensive the job was. Hardware is always billed separately and a deposit taken for commissions with custom hardware.

I don't produce any goods for sale on speculation and prefer to work on a time and materials basis, possibly with a cap. If the client is not agreeable to this and wants a fixed price it will always be at the upper end of my cost estimates though I have offered and given a discount when actual costs came in below estimates.

I enjoy what I do and sometimes I'll bite the bullet on labor and provide a better product than the client wants to pay for just because I want to try a new technique or acquire new skills in a subsidized manner so to speak, which is for me a win-win situation. Some think I'm crazy for this, but it works for me. Maybe years down the road I'll give up this pratice.

[Lee Schierer]

It depends, are you doing this as a business or as a hobby to make enough pocket money for a few more toys? As a business you have to figure in all your costs and a fair amount for your labor (wages). This would be in the $45-60 per hour range including insurance and other benefits. As a hobbyist, you could probably get by for $10 per hour plus 110% of material costs if you are doing work you like.

If it is for a friend or relative then your rates may vary drastically from the above. My kids for example pay only for materials used, as my labor is generally a gift to them.

[Reed Wells]

My bookkeeper says I do it for free.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Good one Reed! :D

I don't charge much since it's just a sideline at this point, but when I start my new gig [more about that in another thread], I'll be charging around $400 a day. I never quote anything by the hour...most clients steer clear of that around here.

[Roger Bell]

I charge $400 per hour (ten hour minimum) for work people want me to do.

If I like them, I might do it for nothing.

[Dave Tinley]

When I am quoting a job I figure my labor hours times $25.00. But on the estimate it just shows the labor dollars, not the hours. I charge for installation, or demo work also. I used to give free delivery but am taking a second look at that.
For materials I mark them up by 25 percent.
I use an Excel spreadsheet and keep track of all the costs.
I dont charge for sand paper, screws, glue etc, the 25 percent mark up on materials takes care of that stuff.
I read in Cabinetmaker magazine that the best thing you can do is give the customer more then they expect, so I always try to add a little something extra into my jobs.
Good luck on your venture.

Dave

[Joe Jensen]

I'm frankly amazed at how low the labor rates are. I am not in the business, but I'd think that quality cabinet makers would be worth at least as much as a plumber or auto mechanic.

For the first time in 25 years I'm considering a paying job for one of my wife's friends. She wants a custom cabinet built to look like her kitchen cabinets. 8 feet wide, 36" tall, and 30" deep with a wood countertop. She knows I'm not in the business, and not cheap. I am planning to call a couple of custom kitchen cabinet stores to find out what they charge per foot for custom alder lower cabinets. I'll take that amount, add 2X the cost of the top, and if she wants to pay that amount, great, if not, no big deal. A friend who just had a kitchen remodeled told me that she just paid $200 a linear foot for lower cabinets. That would make the bid $1600 plus $200 for the top.

Does this sound rational? It would be 4 raised panel doors, a face frame, and only one lower shelf. The doors are raised panel cope and stick. The top is Alder plywood with a 1 1/2" bullnose front edge...joe

[Russell Tribby]

"
I'm frankly amazed at how low the labor rates are. I am not in the business, but I'd think that quality cabinet makers would be worth at least as much as a plumber or auto mechanic.

For the first time in 25 years I'm considering a paying job for one of my wife's friends. She wants a custom cabinet built to look like her kitchen cabinets. 8 feet wide, 36" tall, and 30" deep with a wood countertop. She knows I'm not in the business, and not cheap. I am planning to call a couple of custom kitchen cabinet stores to find out what they charge per foot for custom alder lower cabinets. I'll take that amount, add 2X the cost of the top, and if she wants to pay that amount, great, if not, no big deal. A friend who just had a kitchen remodeled told me that she just paid $200 a linear foot for lower cabinets. That would make the bid $1600 plus $200 for the top."

Joe, I think that's pretty reasonable, especially for the valley. A friend of mine who owns a custom cabinet shop charges around $400-$600/linear foot. Of course they don't use particle board/melamine and most of their work is done in PV and north Scottsdale. I wouldn't base what you're going to charge off of what the shops tell you. You're a one man operation whose work will most likely be of higher quality. Figure out what you want to charge per hour (including delivery, installation, time to pick up the materials, etc.) and add the material cost (I usually multiply it by 1.25 or 1.5). I think if you go this route you'll come up with a figure that you'll be comfortable with. If your friend balks at it, like you said, no big deal.

[Craig McCormick]

I don't think you could charge less than $50.00 an hour and make a living. There are so many things that fall into "cost of doing business" Consider these: Sick days, Vacation days, Cost of your shop, Doing free estimates and not getting the job. The list goes on and on and each job needs to pay for the cost of doing business.

Craig

[Russ Massery]

There is one thing that I will bring up. If you have your shop at home as most of use do. Most homeowners policy will cover your shop and equipment. But it won't if you do work for money. It won't because then it would be considered a business. Which requires a separate policy, Food for thought...........

[William OConnell]

I'm frankly amazed at how low the labor rates are. I am not in the business, but I'd think that quality cabinet makers would be worth at least as much as a plumber or auto mechanic.

For the first time in 25 years I'm considering a paying job for one of my wife's friends. She wants a custom cabinet built to look like her kitchen cabinets. 8 feet wide, 36" tall, and 30" deep with a wood countertop. She knows I'm not in the business, and not cheap. I am planning to call a couple of custom kitchen cabinet stores to find out what they charge per foot for custom alder lower cabinets. I'll take that amount, add 2X the cost of the top, and if she wants to pay that amount, great, if not, no big deal. A friend who just had a kitchen remodeled told me that she just paid $200 a linear foot for lower cabinets. That would make the bid $1600 plus $200 for the top.

Does this sound rational? It would be 4 raised panel doors, a face frame, and only one lower shelf. The doors are raised panel cope and stick. The top is Alder plywood with a 1 1/2" bullnose front edge...joe

Some work cheaper than others and its a different local economy around the country. I personally charge $55 an hour and I have 3 employees. They can always find someone cheaper but cheap can be expensive sometimes.
I've managed to keep us all busy the last 8 years although its een lean at times. My own personal spin on it is that when people charge so little and de value what they do they're bad for the industry and I have no qualms about telling them so.
I just try and do better work then the lowest bidders and sell quality at a reasonable price. The LAST THING I want one client telling someone is call this guy he's CHEAP. I would rather they say call this guy he does nice work and he's fair. That my friend is a business model.
As far as hourly rates I try and avoid it and mostly just price jobs. Its easier and less scary for the customers.
I quit the day rate thing because all of a sudden your punching a clock and they will expect you to work at least 8 hours and will be watching your breaks. Who needs it. Day rates are a recipe for bad feelings this I know from experience
By the way I think your to low on your pricing for that work I would get 2900 cash or pass. Lifes to short to toil away for pennies. Finishing can grow a head all its own

[Peter Quinn]

I'm getting ready to restore two circular gable vent windows for a guy...ain't no way he's getting a flat price bid. Its time and materials on a job like that for me. Its possible every piece of old glass breaks coming out and the dry rottten wood is beyond consolidation so a New sash must be formed to match, lots of variables. Its possible all goes well and its done in 5 hours. Two much risk, too many variables.

How do others bid work like that? If somebody asks for something I've made lots of times I can go with a flat rate as I know the costs, but I seem to get requests for things whose costs I can't fully predict initially.

[Craig D Peltier]

Around here time and materials doesnt work for furniture and built ins etc. I figure it at 40 hour, an sometimes I just see what my cost are and based upon other projects and the clients contacts so far I come up with a cost im happy with which is usally higher than 40hr. Some I dont make it some I do. I wont go low though they can go someplace else. I usually wont bid either, I tell them right off im not the cheapest. I offer referrals.
I do think all quality woodworkers should make the same as an electrician / plumber. Its just as difficult and more dangerous usually.
My finisher charges $65hr and his materials cost is so low sometimes I think I should have been a finisher.

[Lee Koepke]

Some work cheaper than others and its a different local economy around the country. I personally charge $55 an hour and I have 3 employees. They can always find someone cheaper but cheap can be expensive sometimes.
I've managed to keep us all busy the last 8 years although its een lean at times. My own personal spin on it is that when people charge so little and de value what they do they're bad for the industry and I have no qualms about telling them so.
I just try and do better work then the lowest bidders and sell quality at a reasonable price. The LAST THING I want one client telling someone is call this guy he's CHEAP. I would rather they say call this guy he does nice work and he's fair. That my friend is a business model.
As far as hourly rates I try and avoid it and mostly just price jobs. Its easier and less scary for the customers.
I quit the day rate thing because all of a sudden your punching a clock and they will expect you to work at least 8 hours and will be watching your breaks. Who needs it. Day rates are a recipe for bad feelings this I know from experience
By the way I think your to low on your pricing for that work I would get 2900 cash or pass. Lifes to short to toil away for pennies. Finishing can grow a head all its own
I cant think of a better description of what was asked. do good work and price it fair ... :cool:

[brett gallmeyer]

I really appreciate everyone's advice. I'm just starting up and maby thats why I'm thinking of working for so little. I was considering working for around $20 an hour. Here I was thinking that that was decient $ for starting out. I guess I was too worried about scarying away my first jobs and commisions.

I probably would charge more if this was my main sorce of income. Unfortunatly I work in the oil/gas industry and right now I dont know how I would make enough to quit and do something I actually love to do.

Any advice on how to get started building a customer base? Right now I'm just building some small prodjects to sell at consignment shops. But I would love for other ideas. Because, these stores tack on a 30-50% on top of what i want when they sell my furniture. It would really be nice to be able to charge what there actually worth and not what I need to so I can sell them.

Thank you everyone! This is so far my favorite forum for woodworking!

Brett G.

[Stephen Edwards]

I really appreciate everyone's advice. I'm just starting up and maby thats why I'm thinking of working for so little. I was considering working for around $20 an hour. Here I was thinking that that was decient $ for starting out. I guess I was too worried about scarying away my first jobs and commisions.

I probably would charge more if this was my main sorce of income. Unfortunatly I work in the oil/gas industry and right now I dont know how I would make enough to quit and do something I actually love to do.

Any advice on how to get started building a customer base? Right now I'm just building some small prodjects to sell at consignment shops. But I would love for other ideas. Because, these stores tack on a 30-50% on top of what i want when they sell my furniture. It would really be nice to be able to charge what there actually worth and not what I need to so I can sell them.

Thank you everyone! This is so far my favorite forum for woodworking!

Brett G.


For me, as a part time woodworker, the trick is to find that market that likes and is willing to pay for whatever it is that you like to build. Mostly, I take on jobs that the big production shops don't want. They do what they do and I do what I do.

If you can build quality items that are a bit different than what most of the folks in your area are doing, that's one advantage. I've also found that they don't have to be really complex items.....simple designs, well executed with a personal touch.

Only you can decide what your time is worth. Set a price for your time and stick to it! Since it's going to be a part time thing for you, you don't have to take on everything that comes along. If you'll do quality work in the right market, word gets around.

Best Wishes and Best of Luck!

[Kevin Godshall]

I've really been struggling with what to charge for labor and materials. A lot of my "clientele" want nice, but not expensive, so I end up doing a lot of pine/hemlock/poplar builds, usually from customer's rough sawn wood, and only charging labor rate/time.

I've bid a few jobs, trying to be competitive and fair, only to lose out to WalMart foreign made, imitation wood.......... only to be asked to again re-bid it after the WM product failed.......... only to be asked why I'm so out of line with WM.......

To top it off, there are a few retired woodworking hobbyists that aren't trying to make a living or wage, only fill their time, and they are showing up with products with no labor or overhead built into the final cost. They undercut me hard on the POS (point of sale) sales, take most of the customer interest for future builds (based solely on pricing), but then don't want the hassle of custom building or the workload of larger builds.

Basically, its been very difficult to find the spot between being competitive and busy, and sitting home with nothing to do, because I have no orders.

[Jim Broestler]

What you're making sounds a lot like the stuff I make: simple projects with simple materials.

I have to be honest, my labor rate probably only averages about 10-15 bucks an hour, but think about it: I make, among other things, wood gumball machines that use mason jars for the globes. We're talking a very simple item here. Maybe 5$ worth of material. Nobody is going to pay $40 for something like that. It takes me about 1 1/2 hours total per item to make them. After floating around various prices, I discovered that in my area, that kind of item will best sell at $20. Sure, I could probably ask a few buck more, but it's amazing what a slight adjustment in price does for sales. I'd rather move them out at a slightly lower price than watch them collect dust.

It comes down to what the item is, who you're trying to sell to, and what your business goals are. If you're just a part-timer like me wanting a little extra cash and your products are fairly simple, you're not going to be able to get the same labor cost as a pro making custom furniture or kitchens full of custom cabinetry. I see it as getting the enjoyment of woodworking, with the money as a bonus that enables me to buy more tools and materials, and an excuse to do more woodworking. And maybe put gas in the car from time to time. I definitely don't do it for a living.

[Robin Cruz]

when someone asks me to take on a project for them my pat response is "I cant afford myself"

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I've really been struggling with what to charge for labor and materials. A lot of my "clientele" want nice, but not expensive, so I end up doing a lot of pine/hemlock/poplar builds, usually from customer's rough sawn wood, and only charging labor rate/time.

I've bid a few jobs, trying to be competitive and fair, only to lose out to WalMart foreign made, imitation wood.......... only to be asked to again re-bid it after the WM product failed.......... only to be asked why I'm so out of line with WM.......

To top it off, there are a few retired woodworking hobbyists that aren't trying to make a living or wage, only fill their time, and they are showing up with products with no labor or overhead built into the final cost. They undercut me hard on the POS (point of sale) sales, take most of the customer interest for future builds (based solely on pricing), but then don't want the hassle of custom building or the workload of larger builds.

Basically, its been very difficult to find the spot between being competitive and busy, and sitting home with nothing to do, because I have no orders.

It is a very tough road to find your niche, but you will.

First off are you advertising and if so where? That might be the first problem.

The second is a client based problem. You have to teach them what you do and also the difference between you and a Chinese pressed wood 'crapsterpiece'. You can do this in a very easy going and non-condescending manner.

The next step is to distance your work from the hobbyists' who are beating you out. This is much harder to do since they are not paying the bills with their work and can charge a miniscule amount for quality work. If you 'feel' the prospective client might be hung up on price point, then you might even suggest using one to them to get them either on that horse or on yours. While not many here would agree with me on this one it's worked several times. The times it hasn't I have been able to cut my wasted time in half.

I have run into many who ask me the same question about Wally World. How they aren't aware of China's labor costs I don't know but I still get asked. I try and explain the very simple economics of foreign goods...if I get a blank face, I know I am beating my head against the wall.

Bottom line is you need quality clientele for quality work. Whatever you dio do not sell out and go cheap to get work. That will work against you in the future.

I advertise in a small neighborhood magazine in the very back of the classifieds. Been my bread and butter for 9 years now.

Good luck with your venture....if you ever have any questions, feel free to PM me!

PS....wanna build decks?

[Richard M. Wolfe]

The hardest thing by far about woodworking is pricing. In the past I've really shorted myself and I think I've had customers who would have respected me and my work more if I had charged more. But then I just do this as a sideline.....if I were to do it for groceries I'd be looking at it a lot differently.

You might go back and read William's post again....that's about the best "in a nutshell" summary I've read in a long time. For someone to tell you you should charge 'x' dollars just doesn't work as the market for woodworking, from cabinets to knicknacks, is just too varied around the country. The ones I get a bit peeved at are the ones who scream and yell about how much an idiot you are for selling or pricing so cheap. Easy for them to say - they're not the ones who are trying to get the job/sell the item.

[Kevin Godshall]

It is a very tough road to find your niche, but you will.

First off are you advertising and if so where? That might be the first problem.

The second is a client based problem. You have to teach them what you do and also the difference between you and a Chinese pressed wood 'crapsterpiece'. You can do this in a very easy going and non-condescending manner.

The next step is to distance your work from the hobbyists' who are beating you out. This is much harder to do since they are not paying the bills with their work and can charge a miniscule amount for quality work. If you 'feel' the prospective client might be hung up on price point, then you might even suggest using one to them to get them either on that horse or on yours. While not many here would agree with me on this one it's worked several times. The times it hasn't I have been able to cut my wasted time in half.

I have run into many who ask me the same question about Wally World. How they aren't aware of China's labor costs I don't know but I still get asked. I try and explain the very simple economics of foreign goods...if I get a blank face, I know I am beating my head against the wall.

Bottom line is you need quality clientele for quality work. Whatever you dio do not sell out and go cheap to get work. That will work against you in the future.

I advertise in a small neighborhood magazine in the very back of the classifieds. Been my bread and butter for 9 years now.

Good luck with your venture....if you ever have any questions, feel free to PM me!

PS....wanna build decks?

Excellent advice. So far, I've been holding my own. Making enough to cover materials and upgrade equipment, not enough to sent the kiddoes to Ivy League schools.

I've been trying to stay out of the construction business, but when times get lean, I have hung drywall, framed walls, installed floors, etc........ but would prefer not to get into building decks (there I go again, turning down work..........) Very hard to transitions from fine woodworking to construction framing (I got told that 2x4 studding doesn't need to be cut as precise as an M&T joint.......)

Probably the worst aspect of my sales: I offer unconditional guarantee of satisfaction. It has my name on it, you don't like it, you don't have to pay for any of it. So far to date, I haven't had one problem or complaint with quality or customer satisfaction of any sales I've made.

Thanks again for the response.