How to Work without a Tablesaw?

[Danny Thompson]

So, in my recent move, my cheap tablesaw quit working. I've been shopping for a replacement--thinking cabinet saw or maybe a hybrid. With little ones around, I'm a bit concerned about safety, but can't quite afford a Sawstop.

It has made the consider alternatives.

Has anyone else made the transition away from using a tablesaw? How do you do it? How do you reliably:

Cut square panels?
Make accurate, repeatable crosscuts?
Tenons?
Rabbets & Dados?

What equipment do use in place of your table saw? What else am I not thinking about?

I am open to powered or hand tool options.

Thanks.

[Lee Schierer]

Not trying to get preachy, but....

I'm not sure why you have safety concerns regarding little ones affect your buying decision. First of all they should not be in the shop alone and the blade should always be lowered below table height when you are done for the day and the power should be secured in a way that little ones can't turn it on. Finally they shold not be int eh shop when you are trying to work on a TS. The distractions they create may cause you to have an accident.

Buy the best saw you can afford and that will fit in the space available. I like the saw stop concept, but the safety device doesn't overcome the need to think and act responsibly around power tools. Good techniques, guards and common sense will keep you safe on most all of the saw on the market.

[Joe Jensen]

So, in my recent move, my cheap tablesaw quit working. I've been shopping for a replacement--thinking cabinet saw or maybe a hybrid. With little ones around, I'm a bit concerned about safety, but can't quite afford a Sawstop.

It has made the consider alternatives.

Has anyone else made the transition away from using a tablesaw? How do you do it? How do you reliably:

Cut square panels?
Make accurate, repeatable crosscuts?
Tenons?
Rabbets & Dados?

What equipment do use in place of your table saw? What else am I not thinking about?

I am open to powered or hand tool options.

Thanks.

You can get very good results with a guided saw setup like the Festool TS saws. There are others as well. I have one and use it some. Cut is spectacular, but I have challenges with respect to make sure edges are perfectly parallel. The primary way you do cuts is to mark the wood, and then lay the guide on the mark and cut. Cuts are only as good as the mark, and the ability to align the rail to the mark. There are some solutions to for this, just can't remember how.

[glenn bradley]

There is quite a mob of folks here who will jump in with the guided saw system recommendations. I would never use one as a substitute for a tablesaw; too much hardware involved. For the initial breakdown of large sheet goods, a guide clamped to the work is great. JMHO.

[John Sanford]

I know that some folks have had very good results using a bandsaw as their primary woodslicer. Doing so demands a good bandsaw, and sheet goods get rough cut on sawhorses.

One of the great things about woodworking is there's almost always multiple ways of doing things.

[Burt Alcantara]

I considered going this route primarily to gain space back but after looking at the alternatives (circ say with guides), they all seem to require more space and cost way more then a good cabinet saw.

Burt

[Pat Germain]

Danny, if you're budget can't quite stretch for a cabinet saw or hybrid saw right now, I would suggest picking up a used contractor saw in the mean time. You can always find lots of nice contractor saws for sale on craigslist. Often, you can get one with some nice accessories for a couple of hundred dollars.

By no means is a contractor saw a replacement for a cabinet saw. However, it's a long way from no table saw at all. Considering the table saw is the workhorse of almost every wood shop, I think getting a contractor saw for now is your best option.

As for the Sawstop, yes it's great technology and an absolute primo saw. Alas, that technology and quality comes at a very high price aand is by no means a substitute for everyday, common sense safety practices; which would include keeping all pets and little ones away.

[Brian Smith3]

I struggled with this a couple of months ago. The answer is that it depends on the type of work you do.

People that replace the TS usually do it with a rail and guide system like Festool and EZ Smart. These systems can get pretty close, but for the stuff I do, there are a few (yet critical) operations where it's very difficult to replace the TS. Most notably very accurate depth of cut and precise angle cuts. These two things are difficult to set with precision on a circular saw or router on a guide system. That said, I had to break down 4x8 panels this weekend and I used the EZ Smart system with the square and I was thankful I didn't have to do it on the TS. Not that it can't be done (esp with a sliding table), but it's kind of a pain and takes a huge amount of space with the outfeed table etc. With a guide system you flop the panel on a table with a sacrificial top, measure and cut away.

If you don't do many angle and depth type cuts you can use a router for tenons, dados and rabbets, and a TS fence type system on your sacrificial table for repeatability. So again it depends on what you do.

[Danny Thompson]

. . . they should not be in the shop alone and the blade should always be lowered below table height when you are done for the day and the power should be secured in a way that little ones can't turn it on. Finally they shold not be int eh shop when you are trying to work on a TS. The distractions they create may cause you to have an accident. . .

Good advice, Lee. I have a rule that not even my wife can walk into the shop while the TS or router is running. 2-too many botched cuts and compromised safety

It's just that in the back of my mind I have this worry.


The parallel cuts and consistent depths are important. Sounds like a TS is still in my future

Pat, A used lower end cabinet saw is in the budget, if I can be patient enough to find a good deal.

[Craig Summers]

So, in my recent move, my cheap tablesaw quit working. I've been shopping for a replacement--thinking cabinet saw or maybe a hybrid. With little ones around, I'm a bit concerned about safety, but can't quite afford a Sawstop.

It has made the consider alternatives.

Has anyone else made the transition away from using a tablesaw? How do you do it? How do you reliably:

Cut square panels?
Make accurate, repeatable crosscuts?
Tenons?
Rabbets & Dados?

What equipment do use in place of your table saw? What else am I not thinking about?

I am open to powered or hand tool options.

Thanks.

Danny

I would think long and hard before trying to go to a non-table saw shop

Back in the late 80's when i was in HS, my father would not let me get a tablesaw because of the little ones around. I had to find innovative and low cost ways to get things done. I used dad's old B&D reconditioned circular saw with a shop made guide for rough cutting. Then i had to clean up every cut using a router w/ ballbearing bit and a pre-jointed piece of wood. Every piece of wood had to be cut oversized. Took alot more planning and alot of time to complete a woodworking project in the basement. I even tried securing the circular saw to a plywood top, but that was difficult to adjust. Finally was allowed to get a tablesaw, got an old sears belt drive for $100, and worked with that for many years. for safety, i used a dril to enlarge a hole in the prong side of the plug, and inserted a small lock into the plug.

My $.0249: Get either a new contractors or a used hybrid/cabinet saw depending on your budget.

I have similar fears with my little ones. I know that i have limited work options if my son is in the shop. Right now he doesnt like the noise, but soon enough he will want to be with daddy.

Other suggestions for saw safety I have seen include:
1) Make sure your kids know "do not touch." Its a no-brainer, but worth mentioning.
2) Lock the power cord, either as above or in a plastic case.
3) Change power cord to only fit one outlet, then lock both the plug and the outlet.
4) Add a lockable cover or removable key to the saw switch.

and if thats not enough, build a wood box/cover that bolts/locks over the blade

Work Safe

[Josiah Bartlett]

I think the sawstop is a great invention, but I'm not sure everyone who thinks they need one actually does. I think they are good for high school shops and places where amateurs might want to use the saw, but I don't think they are a substitute for good safety practice, and folks have been using table saws for 100 years and most of us still have all our digits. There are plenty of other tools in the shop that can and will maim you just as easily as a table saw, and a feeling that a tool is "Safe" just leads to people taking less care than they should. All of the injuries I've ever inflicted on myself were due to hand tools- I was not being careful because they weren't spinning or making loud noises.

A table saw should be sized for the work- don't cut heavy sheet goods on a portable saw that is balanced on a rickety sawhorse, and don't cut when the motor has to work hard for it. A sharp blade, stable saw, help near by, push sticks, feather boards, and safe feed practices are safe enough for me.

If you have kids, you should keep them locked out of the shop area when you are not there, period. The shop is not a play area. Sure, you can and maybe should lock out your tools and lower any blades, but non-running tools are still dangerous to play around. You wouldn't let your child play with your guns or archery equipment unsupervised, even if unloaded, so why would you do this with tools? All of them are equally capable of inflicting serious injury to the undisciplined.

[Billy Chambless]

I know that some folks have had very good results using a bandsaw as their primary woodslicer. Doing so demands a good bandsaw, and sheet goods get rough cut on sawhorses.

One of the great things about woodworking is there's almost always multiple ways of doing things.

Amen to that. I do without a tablesaw for space reasons as much as budget, and the combination of a good bandsaw, circular saw, and handsaws pretty much covers everything I'd use a table saw for.

if I were using more sheet goods, or doing lots of repetitive cuts I might have to rethink things, but this fits the way I work right now.

[Burt Waddell]

So, in my recent move, my cheap tablesaw quit working. I've been shopping for a replacement--thinking cabinet saw or maybe a hybrid. With little ones around, I'm a bit concerned about safety, but can't quite afford a Sawstop.

It has made the consider alternatives.

Has anyone else made the transition away from using a tablesaw? How do you do it? How do you reliably:

Cut square panels?
Make accurate, repeatable crosscuts?
Tenons?
Rabbets & Dados?

What equipment do use in place of your table saw? What else am I not thinking about?

I am open to powered or hand tool options.

Thanks.


Danny,

A couple of years ago, I bought an EZ Smart setup with the idea of using it to cut plywood only. Since that time, the EZ Smart system has been used more and more and the table saw less and less. I run a fulltime woodworking business so I think I'll have a table saw around for large volume rips in hardwood (Unisaw with stock feeder) until EZ develops a power fed option.

The Eurekazone forum is located right here on Saw Mill Creek so why not check in and see what is happening with the EZ. There a lot of hobbiest there that can share their experiences with you.

Burt

[Tom Clark FL]

S

What equipment do use in place of your table saw? What else am I not thinking about?

I am open to powered or hand tool options.

Thanks.

Danny, Out of shear ignorance, I started building wooden telescopes and built nearly 40 of them before I ever had a tablesaw!. I worked in a machine shop and it was amazing what you could do just laying out lines and cutting to them on the bandsaw. If you have a bandsaw you still can do many project until the day comes when you save up for that new saw. Until then, enjoy working with what you do have.

There are also some operations that you can not do on a table saw, such as trimming the doubled mdf top on this assembly table. In the second photo you will see my $4 eight-foot straight edge that is used for making long cuts on big sheets or things that you cannot push thru a table saw by yourself. It was made for my hand held circular saw. The first photo shows four drawer units from my shop. the three on the left were built before I had my first table saw. It is amazing what can be done if no one ever told you that you can't do it.

Good luck! Tom

[Craig Mitchell]

I have to recommend a guided rail system. I use the EZ smart system (EurekaZone) but the Festool system looks equally cool. I've been very happy it. I'm getting extremely accurate cuts and the versatility has been great since I can use it with a router, etc.

[Pete Bradley]

I've been woodworking for over 10 years without a table saw. My alternatives:

Rips: 20" band saw
Accurate crosscuts: 20" band saw, can require rough cuts with circular or hand saw and extra support for long boards (rare).
Tenons: bandsaw, always. I use a spacer equal to the thickness of the tenon + the thikness of the kerf. Make first cut with spacer against fence, remove spacer, make second cut.
Dadoes: router or router table

I just got a nice 1940 Unisaw, but it's still not getting a lot of use. I guess I'll find things for it to do. ;-)

Pete

[Paul Johnstone]

. With little ones around, I'm a bit concerned about safety, but can't quite afford a Sawstop.

.

The best safety device for little kids is to put a keyed lock on your garage or basement entry so the kids can't go in there.

If kids are in the shop with you (for example, a painting project), unplug EVERYTHING. Kids are curious. I really try to avoid having them down there.

Really, a sawstop does not make the shop safe for kids at all. There's plenty of other ways for them to get hurt.

Now, to your original question, there are systems of straight edges that guide circular saws, but they're never going to be able to replace a tablesaw. For example, there's no way I'd want to rip a bunch of 2" wide strips using a circular saw. That would be a major pain (and difficult).

So my advice is to use this opportunity to upgrade to a contractor or hybrid saw if you can..

[Craig Mitchell]

Now, to your original question, there are systems of straight edges that guide circular saws, but they're never going to be able to replace a tablesaw. For example, there's no way I'd want to rip a bunch of 2" wide strips using a circular saw. That would be a major pain (and difficult).


I'm not familiar enough with highend table saws to say what they can and cannot do.... I would have one of everything if I could afford it and had the room :) .... but as far as ripping strips of wood with a guided rails system, I found it quite easy and accurate. Here is a recent thread I did breaking down 4x8 panels with repeaters and a rail system. I could have easily set them for 2" wide or any width for that matter.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=83770

.

[Bryan Parlor]

Has anyone else made the transition away from using a tablesaw? How do you do it? How do you reliably:

Cut square panels?
Make accurate, repeatable crosscuts?
Tenons?
Rabbets & Dados?

What equipment do use in place of your table saw? What else am I not thinking about?

I am open to powered or hand tool options.

Thanks.

I sold my table saw and router table 18 months ago and bought a guide system which works well for cutting plywood and 2x?. If I needed to cut thicker matl. I would buy a 10in Makita circular saw.

The photograph showing some dados being cut cabinets. This is from a post I made a while back. I copied the post rather than giving a link because it was buried in a long thread

Routing cabinet parts using Eurekazone SRK
I recently made some shop cabinets with both shelf and structural dados using the Eurekazone system.

The photograph shows both sides of the cabinet being routed at the same time so that the alignment is always exact. A piece of scrap wood was inserted in the first dado to keep the two panels aligned for all the other cuts.

Other dados are made by simply sliding the panels under the rail to the location indicated by the router overshoot into the scrap plywood guides on each side of the panels.

The basic setup took 1 min 10 sec to establish (I timed it for a friend). With the rail already setup on the bridge (its normal state) place first workpiece against rail so that its parallel, place a piece of scrap ply against the workpiece and screw to the work bench, add the second workpiece also pushed against the rail and screw another piece of scrap the other side. The panels can now be pushed under the rail to do any of the slots.

I have the bridge but all you need to do this is a 50ft rail package and the srk. It uses your existing router, and you can also use any saw on the rail (base provided in the package) to cut the panels.

Bryan
Attached Thumbnails http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=74885&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1194634628 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=74885&d=1194634628)

[mike holden]

Danny -
As the neighborhood luddite, May I suggest handsaws.
A rip, a crosscut, a tenon, and a dovetail.
Add a turning saw for curves and voila!
To be fair, you will also need a selection of hand planes for rabbets and such, but...
If your budget extends to a cabinet saw at $750 plus, then for a lot less, you can go full handtool.
Make a cabinet for the tools with a lock on it, and then the little munchkins will be safe when you are not around.
Mike