Oak Stair Questions

[Kristina Houck]

Hi All, this site has been so helpful to our project, so thanks to all of you already.

DH and I are putting oak treads on what used to be a carpeted stairway. We have ripped up carpet and are trying to sand down the construction treads in preparation for the solid oak treads we purchased at Lowe's. (Don't worry, the height thing is taken care of!)

Here are the questions I couldn't quite clarify from the other threads:

1. Leveling Treads: We are having a HECK of a time leveling those construction stairs to perfection. I think I have read that we will not get them perfect, so we should get them awfully close, then shim and glue. Is this correct, or is there some magic trick to getting them level? Or is there some kind of gap filler we can use?

2. Just use Glue: Assuming we accomplish #1, I have a question about attaching the treads. It seems from the other threads that we should glue (got 5 tubes of PL400, per your advice) and nail, but that the nails are basically acting as clamps. So, I'm wondering if we can skip the nails, and just weigh them down with a billion pounds of encyclopedias? I'm frankly more nervous about trying to hide our nail holes than I am about them moving on their own!

I know we "don't even know what we don't know," so we REALLY appreciate your help.

Thanks so much and God Bless.

[John Keeton]

What kind of "construction" tread is down now? Can you post a pic that might be helpful? Normally, I would remove the construction tread and work with the carriages, but would need to know more about what you have. Others may have more and better ideas if you could provide a pic.

[Ed Peters]

Can you send in screws from underneath?

Ed

[Paul Girouard]

#1: (Don't worry, the height thing is taken care of!)



#2: I know we "don't even know what we don't know," so we REALLY appreciate your help.




#1: How ? Are you laying new Oak flooring as well at both the top and bottom?


#2: I think your right about that:D


So here's my take , IF you don't need to remove the old const. tread for maintaining the right heights of riser ,,,,,,,you do need to remove them to make the reinstalling part of the job "mo betta".

I'd ripe out the old treads and glue and screw on strips of the same thickness plywood to the stair jacks/ horses / carriages (depends on where you live as to the "proper" name for the jacks.

This way your not fighting warped old "rough" stair treads.

IF the jacks are still "wacky" you can also add at this time thinner shims also glued and screwed , just add the thinner pieces under the thicker" stair tread filler" pieces.

I'd take some care in where I screwed the "shims" down so that you can select a "set back" / standard screw pattern for the screws that hold the new treads. You'd be surprised how often you'd "want" to hit the screws holding the shim / spacer pieces if you don't plan it all out.

Photos would help as has been stated , good luck , you'll need it I think:D

[Kristina Houck]

John, my kids have run off with the digital camera, so i'm s.o.l. on pics, but they're the standard pine stairs builders put down before carpeting. The treads fit under the risers. Does that help?
Ed, I cannot reach the underside of the stairs without ripping the ceiling off my coat closet, as it runs under the stairs... but that would have been nice!
Paul, the stairs our builder put in were not height-spaced very well. the first step was 6.5 inches hich, the middle 14 steps were 7.5 inches high, and the top step was 8.5 inches high. So, as we add the new 1" oak treads, it actually corrects the top and bottom variances and brings the entire staircase closer to uniform. (We are not putting oak at the top for now... we are leaving the carpet on the top and the top riser.) If we rip up the old treads, which are 1.5" high, and replace them with 1" treads, it will actually exascerbate the original problem.

Sorry I didn't include enough background info the first time... I didn't know how much y'all would need to know!!!

[John Keeton]

I would still be in favor of pulling the construction steps, even if they are replaced with a couple of layers of mdf or some other substrate. I think you will have difficulty in getting stable, non-squeaking treads trying to go over the nailed down, unlevel construction treads. I used mdf as tread material under carpet, glued them with construction adhesive and nailed them. They have held up with no movement, no squeaks for 4 years. In your situation, I would try to work with new material to get a good, solid, level surface upon which to install the oak. It seems it would be easier than trying to "remake" the old treads.

[Kristina Houck]

I found the camera

[John Keeton]

I would certainly remove the 2x construction treads and risers. It seems you otherwise are going to have a difficult time getting new risers installed properly. You will also want to apply cove molding under the nose of your new tread and that will be difficult as well. It doesn't appear that you will have the appropriate nose overhang for safety, either.

Not to mention that any movement you now have will still be there, and will most certainly squeak against the new tread. By the way, I always use a heavy bead of construction adhesive under my tread. Seems to really help with squeaks, particularly when you can not get to the bottom to use shims properly.

Just seems starting from the carriages would be much easier, even if you need to lay down some mdf to get the height issues resolved. A couple of layers of mdf, glued and screwed will make a flat and level surface to carry your new treads. Maybe then put a layer of 15# felt paper between the mdf and the oak to avoid squeaks.

By the way, mdf makes nice risers as well if you are going to paint them.

Just my thought.

[Richard Wolf]

I would cut off the over hang, (bullnose) which you now have on the pine treads. Screw down the pine treads so you have a very strong and stable platform to work with. Install new treads and risers with construction adhesive. Shim them to get them level, but use a lot of shims. I would also screw the treads down and plug the holes with oak plugs.
Sounds like someone built the staircase wrong to start with, which seems like it will work to your advantage.

Richard

[Paul Girouard]

I'm going to disagree with Richard , I'd still rip the old treads off. I'd then rip the "best "of those old treads into a net 3" sub tread and glue and screw those back in place as sort of screw cleats. I'd space them one front one in the back corner, then I'd use either some 1 1/8" ply or doubled up 3/4" ply centered between them. So the center section would sort of "float" under but still allow a screw to be placed in the Oak tread.

Again paying attention to where the "real" screws from the Oak treads will be placed so you don't have conflict.

I just don't like who the old treads will fight you for getting things pulled tight / flat / true , AND all that added wood under the new treads is still going to move so you'll have two dis-similar woods glued to one another again "fighting" each other with seasonal wood movement.

Odd the org. stair passed inspection:confused: 1" differences in riser heights is way out of spec.

We "fixed " a similar stair a couple of years ago , it was worst then yours every tread had to be "furred"/ shimmed with different thickness plys to get the riser heights into spec / acceptable tolerances. I have no idea what the org. builder was thinking , in either of these cases.:(

[Jeff Duncan]

First off I'm not a stair guy, I'm a cabinet guy, so take my advice for what it's worth.
If I were trying to get the stairs level I would use shims glue and a brad nailer to get them there. Use your level to get the shim in about the right spot then add a dab of glue to the bottom and get it dead on. Hit it with a few brads and move on to the next one. Now when you come back with your finished steps your already level.
As far as using glue without fasteners I wouldn't go that route. I think glue has it's place and I would certainly use a little dab or 2 on the step, but not to replace the nails, only to add to their strength and to reduce squeaks. There's really nothing much to hiding the nail holes, they're steps after all. You nail em', fill em', sand and finish them, done deal. If you want to keep them as clean as possible, keep all your nails at the same spacing.
Like I said though, I'm not a stair guy so hopefully someone else can add a little more insight.
good luck,
JeffD