Which Festool tool could you not live without?

[Russell Tribby]

I purchased the Domino a few months back to use for a plantation shutter project. I pulled it out and broke it in last week and immediately fell in love. I cut 60+ mortises in about 30 minutes with not an spec of sawdust to show for it. The Domino and vac are my lone Festool purchases so I'm wondering, for those of you that have a larger collection, what Festool pieces are the most prized in your shop?

[David DeCristoforo]

So far I've managed to live without any....

[Russell Tribby]

So far I've managed to live without any....

That was me up until a month ago. I know that the price tag of the Domino is pretty ridiculous but the amount of time it saved me is invaluable. Between teaching, coaching and our three little ones I have a limited amount of time to get things done in the shop. Any piece of equipment or process that helps me to use my time more effeciently is certainly appreciated.

[Reed Wells]

Oh-Oh, All of them.

[Bill Wyko]

I'm up to 9 now and wouldn't part with any of them. Some people will say buying Festool is showboating but I'd disagree. They truly are the best tools I've ever laid hands on. Especially the Domino and any sander they make. The sanders are soo smooth in your hands compaired to anything else. No more numb hands.:) Their sand paper and dust extraction is great too.

[Jesse Cloud]

I've got pretty much everything but the drill. Wouldn't want to part with any of them. But the real heart of my shop is the system comprised of the multifunction table (MFT), the plunge saw (TS55), and the vac (CT-22). I pretty much use my table saw as an assembly table these days. The three above get used every day.

[Tom Cowie]

I purchased the Domino a few months back to use for a plantation shutter project. I pulled it out and broke it in last week and immediately fell in love. I cut 60+ mortises in about 30 minutes with not an spec of sawdust to show for it. The Domino and vac are my lone Festool purchases so I'm wondering, for those of you that have a larger collection, what Festool pieces are the most prized in your shop?


Hi Russell

The Domino is great and I wouldn't be without mine but I admit that the Festool's that I can't do without are the Rotex and vac combo.

Tom

[Ron Dunn]

None of them.

I admit I've been contemplating a rail-and-saw combination to trim panels to final size after glue-up, but that contemplation has taken over two years because what I have now (a home-made guide) does the job.

I'm sure they are good tools, especially if carpentry or joinery is your thing, but to me they are neither indispensible nor life-saving.

That opinion may get changed soon *grin* ... I'm taking a couple of my preferred joint making tools to spend the afternoon with another woodworker, looking at his Domino in comparison. I'm really looking forward to it.

[Dennis Peacock]

I have 3 and I want a Domino and I couldn't live without any that I already have. Period!!!! ;)

[Joe Mioux]

the mini, the midi(?) and the ct 22.

joe

i have the ct33 vac ;)

[Craig D Peltier]

I dont own any. I do want the rotex sander. I have used it and it takes material off like nothing else.
I have also used the circular saw with guide rail. I was impressed but definately live without. I have a saw with 50 inch rails which helps I guess.

[Steve Clardy]

I have 1 sander, the 150/3, which is great, but could actually do without it.

I have a bosch that is comparable. A tad more vibration than the festool.

[Rick de Roque]

I have 3 and I want a Domino and I couldn't live without any that I already have. Period!!!! ;)

Dennis,

I have the Domino and if you want to take it for a spin your welcome to it.

Rick

[Dave Falkenstein]

I use two MFT1080's connected together as a work table, glue-up table, crosscut table, panel cutting table. The MFT's are really versatile with the guide rail for cutting and routing.

[Loren Hedahl]

I could live just fine without any of them. My assortment includes the saw with a selection of rails, the MFT table, the RO125 sander, domino and CT22 vacuum.

However, they have saved me a bunch of money.

I was all set to build a new shop. After getting permits, bulldozing, power, ect., then building the structure I was figuring $20K minimum and about a year of my time. Then there's benches, shelving, heating, dust collection, lighting, insulation, etc. Then there's the continuing costs for heating, taxes and building maintenance.

Instead, I gave my son-in-law my contractor saw and most of my other power tools. He had just moved into a new home with an unfinished basement and was really happy to get these.

So now in my garage shop I can do just about anything I did before, just about as easy and certainly with less mess to clean up at the end of the day. I pay for no extra heating, no extra property tax and no extra building maintenance.

Almost all work is done at the multi-function table that sets end-to-end with a traditional woodworking workbench at the same height. Heating is by a radiant heater that heats me instead of the whole shop.

I kept a floor mounted drill press, two band saws a jointer and my big ol' Delta turret top radial arm saw. All my stock is direct from a local mill. To clean up rough stock I roll my RAS and jointer out to a shed. The RAS works great to trim off a wavy edges using the front of the table as a fence that guides a straight edge clamped to the bottom of the rough boards. Then the rough boards can be cut to a few inches over length, jointed and planed in the shed and the dirty work is done.

I blow the sawdust off the machines, roll them back into their corner of my garage shop, sweep up the shed and the rest of the work is done inside.

So, I have about three grand in Festools, but I figure I'm way ahead.

[John Russell]

I purchased the Domino a few months back to use for a plantation shutter project. I pulled it out and broke it in last week and immediately fell in love. I cut 60+ mortises in about 30 minutes with not an spec of sawdust to show for it. The Domino and vac are my lone Festool purchases so I'm wondering, for those of you that have a larger collection, what Festool pieces are the most prized in your shop?

One of the things that made sense to me early in my festool acquisitions is that it is not a single tool but a system. that is what makes it work for me. the MFT is a central work platform in my shop, but if there was a fire and I was going out the door, the CT22 vac and Ro150 sander would be my first grab and if I could go back for a second batch it would be the saw and guide rails routers, domino, and the stack of sortainers with all my parts. It all works together and that is what makes it worth it for me.

[Dan Lautner]

Rail saw and domino are must have tools for me. The sanders are also great but there are other good non Festool sanders. The Festool drills are not worth the money in my opinion. The routers look nice but there are some awfully good routers at half the cost.

Dan

[Craig D Peltier]

I see thats theres not a across the board excitement of sanders here. I used the 5 inch to sand a slab of mohogany 23x50.It worked exceptionally fast to get it smooth from pretty rough maybe 5 minutes. I dont know if its worth 8-900 with the vacuum unless you have that money not allotted for anything else.
My 5 inch bosh orbital would of took much longer with dust all over.
I liked the aggresive sanding mode.The power was very strong as well. I felt if you let it loose it might of went through the wall.

[Joe Jensen]

I'll chime in. I think the sanders are the best, but only when coupled with a good autostart vac. I don't have a Festool, I have a WAP. I think the WAP, Festool, and Fein are all great. I used the vac with a Porter Cable 6" ROS for years, but the dust collection was nothing like with the Festool. Unless you've worked with one, you can't really appreciate how well they work. Also, the sandpaper lasts hours per sheet compared to minutes before...joe

[Russell Tribby]

Outside of the dust collection what's so special about the Rotex? I've heard a lot of good things about it and a few of you seem very impressed.

[Mark Valsi]

Random Orbital Sander hooked up to the Festool vacuum !!!
I use it on every single project I do !

[Loren Hedahl]

Outside of the dust collection what's so special about the Rotex? I've heard a lot of good things about it and a few of you seem very impressed.

I can compare it to the other sanders I own.

In the aggressive mode and with comparable sandpaper grit to my old Craftsman belt sander, it is almost as fast in removing wood. However, when you are finished there is no gouging or burning and the surface is flat. Compared to my Porter Cable ROS, it is about twice as fast at sanding.

In the less aggressive mode, the results are similar to my old Porter Cable Speedbloc, however it is much faster because the dust collection clears the sandpaper and you aren't stopping to scrape off the little divots or to change sandpaper. In this mode the sanding speed is about the same as my Porter Cable ROS.

I still keep my 1/4 sheet sanders though. Hooked up to my Festool vac they are almost dust free, they sand right up to a corner or edge and use standard sandpaper stocked at Home Depot, only a couple of miles away. Festool probably can't compete in the 1/4 sheet market.

I also have an old Craftsman 1/2 sheet sander that came with a bag for dust collection, that I have removed and hook to my vac. I saw a Festool 1/2 sheet sander at my Festool dealer last time I was there. Next time I need a break I'll toss my old Craftsman in the pickup and a piece of wood and drive up to Edensaw at Port Townsend. They always enjoy it when I attempt a shoot-out between a Craftsman and a Festool!

[Jeff Wright]

My favorite is the Domino. I am not totally pleased with the jig saw. I find it difficult to follow a line when cutting with it due to blocked vision. I suspect there are other jig saws out there that have a better field of view.

[Paul B. Cresti]

My first festool purchases where the sanders and Ct. For sanding purposes they work well....the dust collection aspect is what sold me but today many companies seem to offer dc hookup so in my opinion festool is not really the end all in sanders. As far as actual sanding performance???? I have no idea.

The drills are convenient and have many nice features but I feel they extremely under powered for many tasks. They are not suited (most probably not designed for) drywall, sheathing, misc framing/construction. There are many other companies that offer a more well rounded drill/crew gun.

When I was ww'g full time the jobsite use of the router & saw with a guide rail were priceless. They saved my hide many of times....for use in the shop there are many ways to accomplish the same task. That being said the idea of adding on as a system with different components is nice and I have enjoyed using things like the shelf drilling jig. As we all know these little things come at a serious premium...but then again I can not complain too much because the reason why I no longer do ww'g full time is most people do not want to pay for quality work.

Festool stuff is nice but as anything you can live without them and still produce great work.....but they sure are fun to use and cool to own :D

[Mark Singer]

The Rotex is very good especially for my work.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I haven't found any interest in anything they make adequate to pay the prices they want.

[Narayan Nayar]

I've got a good collection of Festools, many of which duplicate tools which I already own or owned. Someone earlier in the thread said


Outside of the dust collection what's so special about the Rotex

I have asthma, so for me there is no outside of the dust collection. I still wear a mask for most things, but Festools have allowed me to work without spewing dust all over the shop. Even if the quality of work produced by Festools was inferior to other tools I've use, the dust collection would sell me on them. The sanders are in a league of their own, though, performance-wise.

But it's not just the dust collection, thankfully. One could argue that some Festools don't perform the $x better than they cost over other big name brands. Perhaps--that's for prospective buyers to judge. But the tools themselves are very, very well designed, and with few exceptions, I'm always amazed at how much thought went into designing each tool and the system as a whole.

[Dan Lautner]

The Kapex might also make the must have list. I got my hands on one the other day and was impressed. The price does seem high compared to other good scms. My 10" makita slider is a good saw at a great price. Here is a list of benefits I see so far.

1. Bevel and miter scale and settings are superior. The miter adjustment supports the weight of the saw head while you dial in the exact angle.

2. Front rail design saves space and has less flex than makita

3. Dust collection.

4. Dual laser line. Easily adjustable and very accurate.

5. Festool blades, quick change, mmc electronics etc... (typical festool stuff)

6. Trenching is light years ahead of makita.

7. Light weight (magnesium base)


Who the hell am I kidding, I have to have this thing.


Dan

[glenn bradley]

So far I've managed to live without any....

Same for me but, I have dust collection in its various forms so I get by. For those who benefit from the specific Festool designs, they are very impressive. Items like their router never take top spot in the bake-offs for overall but in DC they have got it down to a science. Go to a dealer and test drive a snader along with their vac. Pretty cool.

Thier sanders are one tool that is just plain tops. Five times the cost of a very nice sander but really loved by those who have spent. the domino would be great for someone working in a semi-production environment or any situation where time is money. I could see one paying for itself quite fast if you are selling a lost of items.

[Clifford Mescher]

Kapex common complaint = extended using time- uncomfortable with handle position. Clifford

[Jim Becker]

My 12v drill/driver, 150/3 sander and CT22 are the most used Festool products in my shop. But I'd not give up any of them at this point. The only one I own that I felt was not "as superior" over the competition is the jigsaw, but it's still a great tool.

[Jason White]

TS55, Rotex 150, DX93 and CT22.

Oh yeah, and all my other Festool sanders!

JW



I purchased the Domino a few months back to use for a plantation shutter project. I pulled it out and broke it in last week and immediately fell in love. I cut 60+ mortises in about 30 minutes with not an spec of sawdust to show for it. The Domino and vac are my lone Festool purchases so I'm wondering, for those of you that have a larger collection, what Festool pieces are the most prized in your shop?

[Bill Fleming]

Well as someone who a couple of years ago took my tools out of storage and began to re-build a workshop I found Festool after doing considerable research. I can understand someone that has an active practice or hobby not fully appreciating Festool but in my case they were a great find.

I don't know where to start:

1) Integrated dust control great... don't need a Festool dust collector but they are good

2) Great sanders (I have several) - the ROTEX is great for shaping chair seats and re-finishing decks....

3) MFT work tables are fantastic... I have two and use them in the shop and in the field

4) The plunge saws are great and as you now see several folks have found this as well

So I would say - if you need a tool, look to Festool and if they can do the job it will fit into a great collection long term....I figure the next one I need will be the Domino and production dovetail jig....of course I would love to replace my 9" Delta "Chop Saw" with the Kapex.... but need the right project first....

Cheers - Bill

[jason lambert]

Well I could live without any of them but life it to short for bad tools. I have basically all of them. Didn't get the drill till about 3 weeks ago alwas used a dewalt mainly because of the batteries fit all my tools. WOW the drill is smooth light and powerful. Anyhow back to the question I could do with out the atf55 saw since I have a sawstop, the sanders are priceless however. The rts 400 is my goto sander for fine wor dust collection is amazing I had a 1/4 sheet sander and didn't buy this till later now it is my favorite tool. The sanders coupled with the vac are the way to go.

So my favorits and goto tools are
MFT 1080
ct22 vacuum
Sanders,
Jig Saw
Drill
Domino,
Routers
Saw ATF55 (if I worked off site this would be #1)

The rest I use just not that much.

[John Revilla]

Rotex sander, CT-22, MFT, and the Domino. Everything about this hobby of mine revolve around these tools. Then there's the T55, boom arm, drills and the Festool router, all are great. I have no plans to buy a Kapex........yet. Godspeed.

John Revilla M.D.

[Dave Avery]

Rotex and CT-22 vac. The rest (MFT, plunge saw, jigsaw, domino, OF-1400 router) are good stuff, but not.....

[jason lambert]

There is also no sander or for that matter kapex, etc with close to the dame dust collection. Also the drill with the multi chucks and accuricey of the concentric bits. So I would argure there are really not equlvient tools out there, yes there are other tools that will do a similr job but it is all about time and health.

[Russell Tribby]

I didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest with this post. It seems like there are some strong opinions out there regarding the value of what Festool offers. I know that their price tag is ridiculous when compared to other brands, however, in my case, there wasn't another product out there like the Domino. I could have used another method of joinery for my project but nothing that would have offered the same accuracy and speed. Now that I've been bit by the green bug I can see why most Festool owners are so loyal.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

As a hobbyist, the price differential is simply too large for me to justify the expenditure. Besides, I feel that there are many other lower cost tool manufacturers putting out quality products that will meet my needs.

As far as the Domino's capability, it is certainly unique (at least for now). However, I've been using other techniques to make tenons. The Domino seems like a neat tool, but I do not see it as a necessity for a hobbyist.

However....it's all about whatever floats yer boat! And the reason why there's chocolate and vanilla ice cream. :)

-Jeff :)

[Russell Tribby]

As a hobbyist, the price differential is simply too large for me to justify the expenditure. Besides, I feel that there are many other lower cost tool manufacturers putting out quality products that will meet my needs.

As far as the Domino's capability, it is certainly unique (at least for now). However, I've been using other techniques to make tenons. The Domino seems like a neat tool, but I do not see it as a necessity for a hobbyist.

However....it's all about whatever floats yer boat! And the reason why there's chocolate and vanilla ice cream. :)

-Jeff :)


I've got to agree with you on that Jeff. If I were just a hobbyist there's no way I would've sprung for the Domino. I guess it's like all of those soccer moms driving around in their Hummers (my apologies if you own a Hummer) but what the heck do you need that for? I think a lot of people view the Festool stuff in the same light. There are some people that really "need" and appreciate the features that Festool offers and they're willing to pay the $ to have that. Then I'm sure there are others who buy it just because they can. Either way, that's why we live in this country where we have 1, 412 different styles of toilet seats to choose from. Like you said, whatever floats your boat.

[Eric DeSilva]

There are some people that really "need" and appreciate the features that Festool offers and they're willing to pay the $ to have that. Then I'm sure there are others who buy it just because they can. Either way, that's why we live in this country where we have 1, 412 different styles of toilet seats to choose from. Like you said, whatever floats your boat.

"Need" and "want" are tricky. Post this in the neader forum, and you might get a response to the effect that any power tool is unnecessary... :D

I guess I just have a hard time seeing anyone buy a Domino or any other Festool just to have one... As a status symbol, the only people who are gonna know what it is or recognize the brand are probably people who don't really care if you have one or not. If you are insecure enuf to need a status symbol, I gotta believe you are shopping for a Rolex, not a loose tenon cutter.

Now, if you'll 'scuse me, I gotta load my Kapex and systainers into my H1 and pick up the kids.

[Russell Tribby]

"Now, if you'll 'scuse me, I gotta load my Kapex and systainers into my H1 and pick up the kids."

LOL. That's what I love about this forum.

[Jack Camillo]

Probably been said, but hey, if you don't have it, you don't miss it. I would have to agree, based on the testimonials above by respected forum members, that they are some nice tools to have. The cost factor is clearly the single biggest obstacle to completely taking over the casual woodworker scene. On the other hand, since I've never done production runs on anything, I find enjoyment in using hand tools and techniques. Mind you, I avoid the festool demos and such at woodworking stores and shows for fear of getting the itch. So, I've said precisely zero to answer the question.

[John Sanford]

...
The Domino seems like a neat tool, but I do not see it as a necessity for a hobbyist.
...
-Jeff :)

Well, that's kinda the key, isn't it? As a hobbyist, none of our tools are necessary. Each one simply brings a certain utility (in the philosophical sense) pertaining to our hobby, but the hobby ITSELF is just that, a hobby, and thus, nothing is necessary.

The personal utility value of any given tool is dependent on how one approaches the hobby. As noted, a Hardcore Neanderbubba will look at any tailed apprentice, with the possible exceptions of the refrigerator and coffee maker, and go "that ain't necessary." And a Dyed in Plaid Normite will look at a set of Lie-Nielsen or Japanese White Steel Chisels and say "betcha can't open paint cans with those" while pulling out his Stanley chisels. And this contrast only addresses the power/handtool question. There's the cost/quality questions, the artisan/soulless corporation, the salvaged exotic wood with heartwarming green backstory/scrounged pallets & Borg sourced MDF, etc.

It is not, however, very productive to directly or indirectly indict the value assessments others make regarding tools with which you don't even have any experience. Next time you find yourself tempted to pooh-pooh someone's purchase of a Festool or LN plane or any other high end tool because you bought Brand X, Y or Z which can do just about the same for 1/2 or 1/10 as much money, ask yourself this: if saving $$ is so important, then why don't you just buy Knock-down particle board junk furniture at WallyWorld? Even better, think about how it sounds to you when your brother-in-law brags how his $60 RTS bookcase holds books up just as good as the Walnut and Birdseye Maple bookcase that you spent 3 months building.

(note to self: Since I really, really despise particle board "furniture", I need to remember that this does cut both ways. Annoying brother-in-law undoubtedly values his 3 months spent on the links more than he values figured hardwoods, and even if I'm completely bewildered with such a wacky valuation, 'twould be gauche of me to be obnoxious right back at him.)

Those of you using Festools, I hope you're enjoying them, and that they are delivering the value you seek. To those who've chosen to forgo surfing the Lime Wave, good on ya as well.

In the interests of full disclosure, I have zero, nada, bupkus in the way of Festools, although I think they're plenty intriguing. I will be attending a Festool demo tomorrow night for the new slider.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Have you done any Mortise & Tenons lately? With a Domino, you can accomplish in minutes what can take days any other way. IMHO.

While I can appreciate the Domino's speed, I don't believe it's strong enough to last long enough to be worth the money. There's too many things going on in that little tool for the bearings to be very substantial.

And of course the idea of having some engineer somewhere specify what my mortises should look like doesn't sit well with me.

But I think the real killer is the accuracy (+/- 0.005" easy) and speed with which I can do loose tenons on my slot mortiser. The fact that I made my mortiser of course has some bearing on my preferences.

[Peter Quinn]

Wow...mentioning Festool stirs up some emotions huh?

I've tried a handful of the Festool products and I'd probably own more if my pockets were a little deeper, but most I can and do live without. I opted to buy a slot mortiser versus a domino, cause that cute little guy just runs out of bit when the mortises get deep, but I sure do WANT one. I'd really like one of those circular saws too, and that may come soon enough. If the right job comes up someday I may buy the small plunge router too. If I did more on site work I'd probably own them all.

SO, as far as can't live without? The 5" ROS. Priceless. Period. If you sand anything in your work, and you don't have one, you may be a doofus. I've put my hands on just about every major brand of ROS at some point, and none even come close to this tool. A Dynabrade with DC and a compressor to push it works a bit better, but that's a lot more money. If you haven't used this tool please put down your mouse and go buy one. $150? Maybe more than the competition, but within reach for many and well worth it. The ruby paper is real nice too, actually cheeper than the junk I was using given how long it remains productive.

I do not own that vacuum, I run mine with a Porter Cable vac from my drywall sander that I already owned. I don't even wear a dust mask when sanding with this thing, because there is no dust. Its smooth, balanced, ergonomic and tough. Don't know how I did without it, but the very first time I used another guys I went and bought one and gave my old ROS AWAY. I would have thrown it away, but there's always someone worse off who needs hand me downs. Though strangely I felt guilty like I had found the cure and was passing on the poison!:D

[Narayan Nayar]

I didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest with this post. It seems like there are some strong opinions out there regarding the value of what Festool offers.

hah! Clearly you've never clicked on a post that uses the word "Festool" in the title. The only other nest-stirring-up topic I can think of is probably something along the lines of left tilt vs. right tilt or who would win in a fight: Captain Picard or Captain Kirk.

I'm not in any position to tell a hobbyist or a pro how to value tools they have or don't have. Which is great, really, because I also believe they're not in the position to tell me either. :) I'm always willing to give and receive input, though.

Festools are well-designed, high-quality tools made in a country where employees are highly skilled, working in a safe environment and are paid a living wage. All of those things are going to add to the cost. It's up to you whether that cost is worth it to you. Period.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

However....it's all about whatever floats yer boat! And the reason why there's chocolate and vanilla ice cream.

My 81 year old Mom had a hankering for plain old strawberry ice cream the other day. Food is one of the pleasures in life that she still enjoys. So, off to the food store I went.

When I got there I started searching for the strawberry ice cream. However, all I could find were complex flavors: Double dutch chocolate with caramel swirl, chocolate chip mint with fudge brownie pieces, vanilla pecan with macadamia chunks. Where the heck was the plain ol' strawberry?

I finally found a lowly container of plain strawberry in the back of the case and quickly grabbed it. As I was walking away with a sigh of relief, I noticed that the container felt a little light. Then I read on the label that it had 1/3 fewer calories!

Life sure has gotten complicated.

So what does this have to do with Festool tools?....I have no idea.

-Jeff :)

[Clifford Mescher]

Older people feel comfortable with what they know. Clifford.

[Neal Clayton]

Have you done any Mortise & Tenons lately? With a Domino, you can accomplish in minutes what can take days any other way. IMHO.


yeah, with a plunge router and a jig. don't have to buy or make inferior loose tenons, the board i'm working has the tenon on it. takes the same minute or so to set up, cuts both the tenon and the mortise with one setup.

and even with the high price of commercially made router jigs, they're less expensive than that domino is.

come on, days? even the common way with a table saw and a standalone mortising machine or similar attachment on a drill press, you should be able to cut a tenon in about 5 minutes if taking your sweet time, counting setup, and lining up the mortise is a simple matter of holding the tenon'd board up to the board to be mortised and drawing a few pencil lines.

i know you guys feel the need to justify the price of your tools to yourselves by starting these threads and patting yourselves on the back constantly about your purchases, but i doubt anyone is fooled into believing ridiculous statements like mortises and tenons taking days to cut.

[Neal Clayton]

"probably all of them as their is no tool they offer that cannot be had for significantly less cost from multiple other manufacturers"


The Domino has no competition at any price (I'm talking about a hand held tool for making structural tenon joints). The Rail saws have three competitors but are about the same price (Hilti, Maffel, makita). None of them offer the accessories or support that Festool does.


just got done replying to the last one and here's another one.

a) plunge router
b) jig, make one yourself or buy one if you like, still come in a couple hundred cheaper than the domino, and don't have to use loose tenons.
c) additional benefit of being able to cut dowel holes
d) who needs support when the tool isn't broken? unless you mean the emotional support garnered from spending more than everyone else to make sawdust, in which case, ok.

[George Beck]

I really like the Festool system. The TS55 has changed my way of working. A problem I always faced was getting large lumber (10 ft 8/4 cherry) down to the shop and cut to rough sizes to reasonably work on the stationary machines. It seems you never have a big enough table saw. I dreamed of a large sliding table machine but the expense and floor space never worked. Using the Festool system, I can rip and cross cut with near table saw accuracy and have excellent dust pick up to boot. For hardwood flooring it is THE saw. I also like the interchangeability of the system (router using same rail system etc.). The domino can make strong joints in no time at all. Festool has and continues to deal with real solutions a small shop faces (space,dust,set up) with real innovation. Festool saves me time in set up and clean up without a sacrifice in accuracy or quality of cut. In short, pretty cool.

George

[John Keeton]

This has been an interesting thread! I do not own a Festool, of any kind. Some look interesting, and although I might be able to afford them, I just simply could not justify that cost. As a hobbyist, as some have pointed out, even if the financial ability is there, it seems that cost vs. utility should be at the onset of any decision of this nature. There is always another use for the money - GAS??!! - or even some other luxury if one has been blessed with resources.

Then, there is the pure satisfaction of creating, with some level of accuracy, a mortise and tenon joint. I am guessing most of use no longer use a chisel and mallet, along with a tenon saw. But, even with the aid of jigs and setups, the satisfaction level would seem to be better than plunging a Domino into the stock and inserting a loose tenon.

I am OK with those that take greater satisfaction in other parts of the process, and enjoy the quickness and accuracy of the Domino. But, it seems that there are clear dividing lines among the group based on finances, cost vs. utility, and pure enjoyment. No amount of discussion will bring together those groups.

But, it is still fun to watch!! Keep it coming!

[Per Swenson]

Hello All,

Being adverse to Festool because of price is one thing.

I am fine with that. Subtle innuendo towards members of the Festool forum,

well that ain't nice. Most members of the that Forum are members here.

Now back to the Green Koolaid.

I work with my tools to eat. As a company we have fully invested into the

Festool product line. Why? Well they are truly, easier faster smarter,

and everything works as a system.

A system I might add saves me money in time and makes me look wonderful to the people that count. My Customers.

Don't get me wrong, years ago I had this same conversation down at

Clancys nightly, were we decried the yuppies and their tools and

made great fun, feeling smug and superior in our ability to cut a straight line with a worm drive without ez/festool/or a 2x4 nailed to the deck.

Just 30 years of experience is all we needed.

Hell look at all the extra money we saved for beer.

Well drink up boys, because that attitude today suits me fine.

The less my competition knows how much money these tools earn and save

in the long run, the better.

And Neal, I can take my Domino in to Mrs McGillicuddys house and assemble built ins on site, dustless.

As the kids say, "what ev"

Per

[Russell Tribby]

hah! Clearly you've never clicked on a post that uses the word "Festool" in the title. The only other nest-stirring-up topic I can think of is probably something along the lines of left tilt vs. right tilt or who would win in a fight: Captain Picard or Captain Kirk.

I'm not in any position to tell a hobbyist or a pro how to value tools they have or don't have. Which is great, really, because I also believe they're not in the position to tell me either. :) I'm always willing to give and receive input, though.

Festools are well-designed, high-quality tools made in a country where employees are highly skilled, working in a safe environment and are paid a living wage. All of those things are going to add to the cost. It's up to you whether that cost is worth it to you. Period.

Well said, Narayan. I'll be honest I never really thought about the importance of the Festool work environment in producing a quality product. We are so driven by price these days that some of the other aspects related to the production of the tool often get thrown to the wayside. There are fewer and fewer tools being produced in the type of environment that you have described. I'm afraid it is going to stay that way and if anything the number will shrink - a consequence of the new global economy.

[Neal Clayton]

Hello All,

Being adverse to Festool because of price is one thing.

I am fine with that. Subtle innuendo towards members of the Festool forum,

well that ain't nice. Most members of the that Forum are members here.

Now back to the Green Koolaid.

I work with my tools to eat. As a company we have fully invested into the

Festool product line. Why? Well they are truly, easier faster smarter,

and everything works as a system.

A system I might add saves me money in time and makes me look wonderful to the people that count. My Customers.

Don't get me wrong, years ago I had this same conversation down at

Clancys nightly, were we decried the yuppies and their tools and

made great fun, feeling smug and superior in our ability to cut a straight line with a worm drive without ez/festool/or a 2x4 nailed to the deck.

Just 30 years of experience is all we needed.

Hell look at all the extra money we saved for beer.

Well drink up boys, because that attitude today suits me fine.

The less my competition knows how much money these tools earn and save

in the long run, the better.

And Neal, I can take my Domino in to Mrs McGillicuddys house and assemble built ins on site, dustless.

As the kids say, "what ev"

Per

that's all fine and good, and honestly i'm intrigued by their circular saw and guides, i could use that, i don't have room for a jointer and typically don't need one (my primary function is making moldings, i only need one square edge, which i accomplish with a straight edge and skilsaw, and using a gang rip head on my planer to cut to the width i need). it would definitely save me the trouble of having to store a 16 foot straight edge in the shop, since their circular saw system could be broken down and stored neatly.

but if i do wind up with one you won't see me scouring the internet for tool discussions and delcaring that "there is no other way to cut boards with a skilsaw than this". actually there are lots of ways to skin a cat, and it boils down to preference in the end.

[Per Swenson]

Neal,

It seems to me you have the wrong impression of Forums in general,

and their ability to both transcend the tool and or the endeavors

one partakes in. They may appear to you as group hugs and affirmation

sessions, and you are entitled to your impressions.

But a bond forms around a common action or allegiance, be it overpriced cars

or hard to find boat motors. No matter, the end result is the same.

You meet new and interesting people. Actually you learn new stuff.

I have had the opportunity with both members here and on other Forums

to meet them in Person. Each and every encounter has been a life

richening experience. I turn 50 years young in a couple a weeks,

35 of those years I have made a living or supported myself in

construction. Compared to the evolving and vast knowledge base

provided today by the internet and forums in general, I know nothing.

But I do know this, if there is a better or faster way to do something

to increase my income, I would be a fool not to listen.

Per

[Chris Padilla]

Well, it's been a while since a good "emotion-toting" thread floated down the Creek....

I have quite a bit of Festool. The sanders and dust control are second to none...that is what got me into Green.... I have a couple of drills, MFT1080, jigsaw, ATE65 circular saw and various guides. I agree about the jigsaw's visibility but it helps to hook it up to the vacuum, which I don't often do.

The Kapex, even for this diehard Festoolian, is way-up-there priced so I think I'll find it easy to skip that one. I've also managed to stay away from any of the F routers since I already have 4 (mostly PCs and one Bosch) and see no reason to change that, either.

BTW, I have a CT-11 vacuum...the predecessor to the CT-22 and 33. :)

[Rob Russell]

As Chris just noted, it's been a while since a good Guided Circular Saw System (GCSS) thread got going. This thread has already required Moderator intervention.

Please keep your posts on topic to the original question, which was "for those of you that have a larger collection, Which Festool tool could you not live without??" - not a Festool vs. other product comparison or debate about GCSSs in general.

Your friendly Moderators thank you in advance for your cooperation. :D

Rob

[Dan Lautner]

"just got done replying to the last one and here's another one.

a) plunge router
b) jig, make one yourself or buy one if you like, still come in a couple hundred cheaper than the domino, and don't have to use loose tenons.
c) additional benefit of being able to cut dowel holes
d) who needs support when the tool isn't broken? unless you mean the emotional support garnered from spending more than everyone else to make sawdust, in which case, ok."

Yes I have plunge routers, fixed routers, trim routers etc. . By the time I'm done setting the depth for my router I am done with the joint using the Domino. The most expensive part of building things is my time. If I can save time and hassle I buy it. The Domino has paid for itself many times over and I have owned it about 8 months. If my Domino was stolen tonight I would be at the store in the morning to buy a new one. You could do everything with a chisel and a hand saw if that gets you off. If you want to get things done quickly buy the best tool for the job.

Dan

[Russell Tribby]

As Chris just noted, it's been a while since a good Guided Circular Saw System (GCSS) thread got going. This thread has already required Moderator intervention.

Please keep your posts on topic to the original question, which was "for those of you that have a larger collection, Which Festool tool could you not live without? - not a Festool vs. other product comparison or debate about GCSSs in general.

Your friendly Moderators thank you in advance for your cooperation. :D

Rob

Thanks Rob. As I mentioned in a previous thread, it wasn't my intention to stir up a hornets nest. However, it's been great seeing such a wide range of opinions.

[Eric B. Peacock]

Hello to all,

I highly recommend that before you come out of pocket for your first Festool purchase you prepare yourself to chunk out the change for one of their dust collectors to go with it. Otherwise you won't really have a "come to Jesus moment" that has become synonymous with Festool.

I originally bought the CT33 and Rotex 6" sander combo, but looking back, I would have been just fine with the CT22.(I got hit with the fear of falling short) When you buy the dust collector in a package it saves you 25% off the dust collector. I suggest taking advantage of it because it's the only available discount from Festool I've witnessed.

I would also invest into your weakest link or greatest dislike for your first tool. Whether that be sanding, joining, or whatever. Festool will save you time, help you do the job cleaner, better, and with less effort. Following are my opinions of the Festools I own.

TS75 plungecut saw- I use it as a rip saw on my rough lumber before I joint it. Bar none a great tool. I have a model 66 but this hand saw with the guide rail is superior for quick straight line ripping. I build exterior doors, so the guide rail system has boosted my confidence ten fold when doing on site installations. Instead of cutting shy, then planing and sanding, it's just one cut and I'm done. That includes beveling the inswing edge 1/16".

The Rotex sander- Get the 6" not the 5", huge difference in vibration. The 6" is a Cadillac in comparison. 1" makes a lot of difference..... keep it clean guys;-) I can literally sand down an entire door to finish grade solo in an hour opposed to several hours. Probably the most amazing sander ever made, no BS.(again it's the dust free part that blows my mind time and time again.)

The jig saw is an incredible tool as well. On 8/4 and 10/4 stock, I get band saw results. Truly amazing, and the best priced tool they offer. The only difference between the two is the grip preference. I opted for the trion PSB 300 EQ with the rounded handle. If I could do it over again I would probably choose the PS because I also like to pull the saw into the scribe line sometimes. Again, it's preference.

The planer is another great tool and I use it for the obvious, but also to add texture to exterior doors for that rustic look with the undulated head(an option accessory). Again something that took me "days"(not to mention that I had to outsource it for big bucks), now only takes a couple of hours. Cha Ching$

The 1080 MFT(multi function table). I build larger items so I rarely get to fully enjoy it. It's the one tool I don't consider a must have probably due to fact that my needs outweigh it's utility. Kreg clamp tables or any homemade table with clamps will provide as much use for you. Put your money into the tools first, let them make you some money before you buy accessories like the table.

Those four tools have left me craving for more. My next purchase will be the Domino Jointer, and then the Kapex.(in that order) I just had a daughter, so I've had to become a lot more cautious of my spending, partly due to the fact that I promised my wife, "first things first." It's hard to sell a woman that you need a $800-$1300 tool when you've made it this far without it.

If your still not sure contact your local or state Festool rep and request some one on one. Richard is the man here in Houston. The deciding factor shouldn't be what you want the most, but which Festool product will help you do the most. As the previous contributor mentioned, "Time" is precious.

An even better way to determine if Festool or any other investment is right for you, is to use the same formula Tony Blair used when he stated, that the United States is in fact the greatest country in the world. You do this by simply calculating how many people want in versus how many want out. I think the numbers speak for themselves.

And by the way I don't work for Festool, I just really like their products. FYI, I originally bought the sander with no intention of going any further, but the performance outweighed the sting of the sticker so much, here I am writing about it. Festool actually helped me start enjoying mundane tasks that were never meant to be enjoyed in the first place. Go figure. And one more plus is the 30 day no questions asked guarantee. You've got nothing to lose, but be careful what you wish for. Festool can become a habit very quickly.

I hope this helps, best of luck.

[John Stevens]

yeah, with a plunge router and a jig. don't have to buy or make inferior loose tenons, the board i'm working has the tenon on it. takes the same minute or so to set up, cuts both the tenon and the mortise with one setup. [snip]
...i doubt anyone is fooled into believing ridiculous statements like mortises and tenons taking days to cut.

Fair enough Neal. "Days" is an exaggeration. "Hours" is not. Depending on the number of M&T joints, "a whole day" is not an exaggeration. I know: I made some fairly sophisticated router jigs to cut M&T joints, and I can tell you from experience that by the time I could get any of the jigs properly set up by way of test cuts, I could easily have cut two dozen or more "no-test-required" joints with the Domino. Heck, in the time it takes to just to clamp a work piece into a router jig to bore the mortise, I can bore two, three, four mortises with the Domino--no exaggeration, it's that fast and simple. I was very skeptical too, but until you've used the Domino, you really have no idea how quickly and easily that thing can make a strong joint. Oh, and did I mention there's absolutely no dust to breathe or clean up afterwards?

This is not to say I couldn't live without it, but only to say that there are a lot of tools I'd give up before I'd give up my Domino. It lets me spend much less time making furniture and more time designing it. Or more time with my family or friends, or outdoors getting some sunshine and fresh air. To each his own.

Regards,

John

[John Stevens]

I would also invest into your weakest link or greatest dislike for your first tool. Whether that be sanding, joining, or whatever.

Thanks, Eric, that is outstanding advice.

Regards,

John

[John Keeton]

To each his own.

Regards,

John
And that is the point isn't it? When I go to the shop, I go for solitude, a sense of accomplishment, creativity, to reflect, and finally, to build something. Sometimes there is a time deadline, but I try to avoid those. My day job is high stress, my kids are grown, my wife has mulitple hobbies, and we have always had our alone times. I dare say that probably is not the case with most of the responders.

But, that is my world. I fully understand Per's position - his livelihood depends on time and a good outcome. I doubt he goes to the shop in the evenings for the same purpose. In fact, everyone here has a legitimate and understandable position on this issue - and they all have validity.

The thread, it seems, was started to explore the world of Festool owners. To those of us that aren't so inclined (perhaps yet!), it has been an educational thread. Certainly one that might cause consideration of certain Festool products in the future, or not others. It has accomplished its goal - which by the way, was not to sway anyone to one side or the other!

I, for one, have appreciated all of the comments. Thanks!

[Neal Clayton]

Neal,

It seems to me you have the wrong impression of Forums in general,

and their ability to both transcend the tool and or the endeavors

one partakes in. They may appear to you as group hugs and affirmation

sessions, and you are entitled to your impressions.

But a bond forms around a common action or allegiance, be it overpriced cars

or hard to find boat motors. No matter, the end result is the same.

You meet new and interesting people. Actually you learn new stuff.

I have had the opportunity with both members here and on other Forums

to meet them in Person. Each and every encounter has been a life

richening experience. I turn 50 years young in a couple a weeks,

35 of those years I have made a living or supported myself in

construction. Compared to the evolving and vast knowledge base

provided today by the internet and forums in general, I know nothing.

But I do know this, if there is a better or faster way to do something

to increase my income, I would be a fool not to listen.

Per

my impression of forums is that their purpose is to exchange information, so that everyone can learn from everyone else. therefore when a person's fanaticism for a certain thing that is discussed in said forum crosses over the line from preference to blatantly inaccurate information, it becomes detrimental to the forum itself.

[Per Swenson]

my impression of forums is that their purpose is to exchange information, so that everyone can learn from everyone else. therefore when a person's fanaticism for a certain thing that is discussed in said forum crosses over the line from preference to blatantly inaccurate information, it becomes detrimental to the forum itself.

Without being rude,

If you made the word forums singular and added Festool before it,
that first sentence would be completely accurate .
But then the rest wouldn't make any sense.

Besides any Forum is more or less self policed.
Just as it done here on SMC, blatantly inaccurate information,
is exposed as such.



Per

[Jack Briggs]

I've don't think there are any that I could not live without.

[Per Swenson]

Jack,

You are right of course.

It's the wording of the original posters question.

And Frankly as a Carpenter by trade I could happily

live without all my tools, except maybe a toenail clipper.

Of course then I wouldn't be able to work.

And that's the idea.

So, maybe the question should have been,

What is the last tool you would sell?

Festool or otherwise.

Per

[Bob Marino]

Hello to all,
I originally bought the CT33 and Rotex 6" sander combo, but looking back, I would have been just fine with the CT22.(I got hit with the fear of falling short) When you buy the dust collector in a package it saves you 25% off the dust collector. I suggest taking advantage of it because it's the only available discount from Festool I've witnessed.

Eric,

All good points, except that a few things ave changed.

1. The discount is now 10% of the price of the dust collector.
2. The TS saw/MFT combo saves you 10% off the MFT 3's price.
3. The KAPEX/MFT-KAPEX combo saves yo 10% off the price of the MFT-KAPEX.

bOB