centering cone for router base?

[Walt Caza]

Good Day Everyone,
Does anyone use a centering cone with their router?

You chuck it up as a means to center the baseplate, which centers the guide bushings to the spindle. An application where this shines would be a
dovetail jig that relies on guide bushings. Otherwise, if your guide is mounted eccentric to the bit, innaccuracy can creep in.
As you trace around the jig guide fingers, different reference points make contact and introduce slop.

For many years I have just used a 1/4" straight bit to do the same...
but I had always wished for better.
I plan on doing some template routing, and would prefer to dial in the guide bushing before I get started.

Many phone calls inquiries later, noone seems to 'get' what I am talking about, and no store in the whole county carries them.
I had an offer to go to a far away store in person, make a special order,
pay in full up front, and wait 4-6 weeks. Sweet deal!
Another offered to bring one in for me, for just can$28. Sweeter deal!!
I hope our American woodworkers appreciate Rockler and Woodcraft.

So, before I jump through hoops to get one...
does anyone find a centering cone worthwhile?
I brought this to the Creek, because sometimes it's nice for people to know what you are talking about!
I get how modern marketing works, but it sure would be nice if manufacturers would just stick this little dandy in the kit.
I know I'd gladly pay a little more for a more complete starter set-up.
Thanks,
Walt
:)

[Lee Schierer]

I understand your idea and think that you could get a machinst to make one up for you for about $20 from tool steel. Basically you need a cone shaped piece with a shaft out the back to fit in the chuck of the router, but I'm not sure I see the need.

My understanding is that the router bases on routers that accept bushings are already centered as part of their manufacturing process. There appears to be no need for a tool to check this. Also wood is forgiving enough that you don't have to hold every cut to +/-.001 for good fits and quality work. Adjusting the depth of the router bit for dovetail cutting changes the relationship in size between the tails and slots in a dovetail joint to allow a slip fit. Having the fit a bit loose here and there doesn't hurt the strength of the joint. The glue generally can fill that much gap without compromising the strength.

Just my 2 cents worth, your mileage may vary.

[Eric DeSilva]

There are some applications where it makes sense--I use a Festool LR32SYS system for doing euro 32mm cabinet holes. That system includes a router base plate, and in order to ensure alignment, an alignment bit for the router. You leave the locking nuts loose, plunge the router alignment bit, center the base around the alignment tool, then tighten the locking nuts. FBOW, the alignment tool there is more like a disc with a stem, not a cone, but it ensures the baseplate is centered.

[Steve Flavin001]

have it included if you wish to use it.

[Paul Mattaliano]

Bosch makes one; think it goes for about $10 on Amazon

http://www.boschtools.com/Products/Tools/Pages/BoschProductDetail.aspx?pid=RA1150

[Hank Knight]

I ordered a round router plate from Lee Valley several years ago. It came with a nice aluminum cone for aligning the router and the plate. I never used the plate or the cone, so I guess my answer to your question is that a cone is not an essential item.

[Walt Stevens]

I have a DeWalt DW618 three base kit, and it includes a cone for centering.

[glenn bradley]

I like them. One that I have is too long for my smaller router. this is how I ended up with two. If I am doing plunged mortises or the like, accuracy is important and I will take the time to confirm or correct the centering of the bushing/plate. This only really helps if you have quality bushings (or use the same surface for the entire cut).

[Jim Becker]

Yup...I was so glad when one came with my Dewalt router kit! It's especially good when concentricity is critical, such as for dovetail work.

[Dave Lehnert]

This is the dewalt cone that came with the 3 base kit. I am sure they sell it through parts dept. http://www.thewoodshop.20m.com/graphics/dewalt/dewalt618/centeringcone02.jpg

[Peter Quinn]

I got one with my bosch kit. I mount my router to a lot of shop made bases for special setups and I always center my standard base plate when I put it back on. If you never use template guide bushings I guess it wouldn't matter much, but template bushings are near useless without one.

[Cary Swoveland]

Bench Dog includes one with its $25 guide bushing accessory (40-015) for its ProLift. It's essential for the buide bushing accessory.

Cary

[Steven J Corpstein]

On Pat Warner's (http://www.patwarner.com/sundries.html) site

[Russ Massery]

I do recommend Pat's subbases especially the offset base. this is a simple version of his design..........
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=20151&cs=4856&pcs=fam (http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=20151&cs=4856&pcs=fam)

[Bob Wingard]

I approached this a bit differently on my bases.

I start out with a flat piece of Lexan, cut to whatever shape you desire .. round, oversized, offset.

Determine the thread size of the router's baseplate mounting screws, and get a couple of pieces of threaded rod, old machine screws, studs, anything that you don't need that matches the thread.

Cut the threaded pieces into approx. 1" lengths, and chuck them up, one at a time in a drill chuck, then while running the drill, "point" them by spinning them against a running grinder, sander, even a file will do in a pinch. You should now have 3-4 pointed devices that fit your router's baseplate.

Set the router in your desired position, and screw one of the pointy tools through the baseplate with the point facing the Lexan, then screw it in until you feel it touch the Lexan .. .. gve it about one more turn. Now, lightly tap the non-pointed end of the screw with a small hammer, making a very precisely centered dimple in the Lexan. Do the same procedure for all mounting holes, then drill the Lexan with the appropriate bit for clearance holes. Next step, some say is not necessary, but I do it anyway .. .. flip the Lexan over .. run the same drill into the hole it just made .. clamp the Lexan in place .. change to a countersink .. drill a countersink to clear the screwhead. Put the drill bit back in .. line up the next hole .. drill ..countersink .. etc. You should now have a perfectly fitting sub-base, but still no center hole.

Install a 1/4" router bit, end mill, even a drill bit .. then install the new sub-base. Turn on the router .. plunge the bit through the sub-base .. you now have a perfectly fitting sub-base with a 1/4" perfectly aligned with the collet centerline.

Remove the sub-base and flip it over again .. countersinks UP .. here's the only "SPECIAL" tool you might need .. and you probably already have one. Take an adjustable beam-type hole saw and set it up to make a hole equal to the outer diameter of your bushings. Using the 1/4" hole as a guide for the hole saw pilot, make a shallow cut, just deep enough to sink the guide bushing below the surface. Reset the hole saw to the exact size of the threaded part of your guide bushing, and drill it straight through.

This should yield a perfect-fitting sub-base with a "socket" machined to accept the guide bushing, and no "centering-cone" necessary. If you don't already have one, the adjustable hole saw is probably cheaper that the cone, more readily available, and can be used for lots of other things, so it's not dedicated to one function as would be the cone.

Hope this helps .. .. it's easier to do than to explain ..

[Curt Harms]

includes the same or very similar centering cone. One thing is that the sub base holes need to be designed such that tightening the screws doesn't move the sub base off center when tightened. I.E. the holes need some "slop" and the countersink needs to be flat bottomed, not tapered. Or so it seems to me. The downside of such a design is that the sub base could move with use I suppose. Not sure there's a foolproof answer to guide bushing mounting. They're more expensive but bearing guided bits seem to work very well without the centering issues.

Curt


This is the dewalt cone that came with the 3 base kit. I am sure they sell it through parts dept. http://www.thewoodshop.20m.com/graphics/dewalt/dewalt618/centeringcone02.jpg

[Jason White]

Pat Warner makes a good one for just about every router. www.patwarner.com




Good Day Everyone,
Does anyone use a centering cone with their router?

You chuck it up as a means to center the baseplate, which centers the guide bushings to the spindle. An application where this shines would be a
dovetail jig that relies on guide bushings. Otherwise, if your guide is mounted eccentric to the bit, innaccuracy can creep in.
As you trace around the jig guide fingers, different reference points make contact and introduce slop.

For many years I have just used a 1/4" straight bit to do the same...
but I had always wished for better.
I plan on doing some template routing, and would prefer to dial in the guide bushing before I get started.

Many phone calls inquiries later, noone seems to 'get' what I am talking about, and no store in the whole county carries them.
I had an offer to go to a far away store in person, make a special order,
pay in full up front, and wait 4-6 weeks. Sweet deal!
Another offered to bring one in for me, for just can$28. Sweeter deal!!
I hope our American woodworkers appreciate Rockler and Woodcraft.

So, before I jump through hoops to get one...
does anyone find a centering cone worthwhile?
I brought this to the Creek, because sometimes it's nice for people to know what you are talking about!
I get how modern marketing works, but it sure would be nice if manufacturers would just stick this little dandy in the kit.
I know I'd gladly pay a little more for a more complete starter set-up.
Thanks,
Walt
:)

[Anthony Whitesell]

I have the Bosch kit with the RA1150 centering cone and use it each time I use either the guide bushings or swap base plates.

I get what a centering cone is, but neither Rockler nor Woodcraft carry them here in NH (and some of the associates haven't a clue what one is either).

I found that it is a must to use the centering cone when installing guide bushings or a circular base plate. I didn't think much about the base plate until I used the outer edge to register a rabbet cut. I rotated the router while making the cut and it came out crooked because the outer edge of the base plate wasn't concentric with the bit. Just something to think about when you are making dado and rabbet cuts with the router.

[Mark Grotenhuis]

I have the cone but never use it. I find that if I use a 1/2" collar template or bushing and a 1/2" rod that came with my mortise and tenon drill dress attachment I can do the same thing with better results. Just loosen the screws in my router base, put the bushing in, put the rod in, tighten the rod down, and then tighten the screws in the router plate down. The rod fits very tightly in the bushing so there is no play when you tighten the screws. I think they even sell just the rod for cheap... here I found it:

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/routacc1.html#Universal_Centering_Alignment_Anchor

I think the cone has a little more play when setting it so I prefer using the rod.

[Anthony Whitesell]

Actually Mark I've found you to be partly correct. If I use the bushing that just fits over the widest part of the Bosch cone, there is too much play. I use a bushing that is in between the shaft diameter and the outer diameter of the cone; such that the bushing rests on the beveled edge rather than the outer diameter.

[Jesse Cloud]

With the guide bushing adapters that connect by screwing a knurled nut onto the threaded throat of the bushing (aka porter cable style), I always take the adapter off so I can get a good, tight fit (learned the hard way after one came loose and ruined a carbide bit).

I find most routers have a huge amount of slop in the screws that connect the adapter. In my younger days I could eyeball the fit of the bit in the template guide, but not anymore. We did an experiment at school and absolutely could not get 5 guys to agree on center.

So, I use the cone everytime I change the template.

Only exception is the Festool OF1400 router that uses a completely different adapter connector that has always been spot-on for me. No cone needed there.

[Bill Huber]

Maybe I am missing something in some of the post but I use a cone all the time on my Bosch router, its fast and works very well.

I got a set Rockler, with bushings and the cone for $20 and it has worked out very well.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?Offerings_ID=10671&TabSelect=Details

[Mike Henderson]

I don't use a dovetail jig so this may not make sense...

I used to use those guide bushings when doing template cutting but found that router bits with bearings were much better - your template can be the exact same size as the piece you want to cut and there's no problem of alignment.

For a dovetail jig - does anyone make a dovetail bit with a bearing? Or does that not make sense? If it would work, it would eliminate the problem of aligning the guide bushings.

Mike

[Will Blick]

Bill, nice Rockler find.... that is a very clever kit.... Festool sells two centering cones last I looked. Of course, the 1/4" one I bought was like $28?

For Dovetail jigs, centering cone not required, as long as you keep the router handles always in the same orientation, as any errors in the centration of the bit vs. the guide bushing are consistent on all boards. So, although there is often slop in the system, if you are relatively careful with router orientation, the slight non concentric bit / bushing is a self-correcting problem.

Mike, bearing bits would have too many potential problems with DT jigs... dust between bearing and fingers alone would produce some less than perfect cuts.... they also wear... the guide bushing is the right approach, and if you are careful to always keep the router handles in the same orientation, accuracy is amazing due to self correcting concentric errors.... a rarity in wood working....

[Chris Barnett]

Had the DeWalt store order one, about $4 and change. Made of steel but cone is plastic. Noticed that Woodline has them in the catalog they sent...was just looking at all their stuff, but catalog says MCLS or MLCS or something like that :D. Lee was out of stock last I checked so had to go to DeWalt. Hitachi included a centering bit with their big router...was great deal back when for $117, and with all top notch attachments.
Since you do it only once, in a pinch you could use a chamfering bit rotating CCW, but don't turn it on :eek:.

[Clifford Mescher]

I could be wrong but if your router plate has counter sunk holes, will not plate always seat where the screw directs it? Clifford

[Bob Wingard]

I could be wrong but if your router plate has counter sunk holes, will not plate always seat where the screw directs it? Clifford

Some, if not most router baseplates are counterBORED rather than counterSUNK, allowing the plate to move around for alignment. If you make your plate as per my description earlier on in this discussion, you are correct .. the baseplate cannot mount in but one location, and the center hole always registers to the same position .. DEAD CENTER.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

I don't use a dovetail jig so this may not make sense...

I used to use those guide bushings when doing template cutting but found that router bits with bearings were much better - your template can be the exact same size as the piece you want to cut and there's no problem of alignment.

For a dovetail jig - does anyone make a dovetail bit with a bearing? Or does that not make sense? If it would work, it would eliminate the problem of aligning the guide bushings.

Mike

HI Mike, What you describe is exactly what the Keller Jig uses: a DT bit with bearing. I think it's a better , more accurate way to go than a collar when using a DT jig. I have a MLCS jig and having to deal with getting the collar centered is what has caused my problems in the past. Maybe I need to put more effort into centering my collars but the Keller jig eliminates this source of potential error. I wish I had gotten the Keller set up.

[Neil Brooks]

Last night, I dredged up the P-C 4212 Dovetail Jig, and -- because I didn't know better -- started on some through dovetails in baltic birch ply (which seems notorious for tearout, when used this way, and requires a ridiculous amount of care to do well. Back to hardwoods. But I digress....).

Started with my Ryobi plunge router and my shop-made router sub base.

With the 3/4" router guide bushing and the dovetail bit ... as always ... all was well.

Switched over to the straight bit and the 5/8" router guide bushing. Snugged everything up. Started the climb cut.

All heck broke loose.

Technically, the bit seems to have been oh-so-slightly off-centered in the bushing ... and/or the bushing was oh-so-slightly off-centered in the base.

In either case, it spun the bushing loose, spun the collet loose, and threw several pieces, helter-skelter.

I had the plex guard on the router, my leather shop apron on, and my safety goggles, so ... aside from a bodily function over which I ordinarily have control ... all was well.

But I figured out rather quickly what went wrong.

Apparently, the clearance with the 3/4" was fine to compensate for any tiny errors in my centering. The 5/8" ... not so much.

So ... I've now ordered a "proper" Infinity acrylic sub-base AND a Bosch centering pin/cone.

For me, it seems a worthwhile idea!

[David Prince]

Milwaukee has one with their set. I would think it deals more with having interchangable bases. If you have a fixed base, it doesn't move unless you change the baseplate, correct? How would a fixed base create "play" or "slop" between the base and shaft? (Think of a router in a router table. Do you have to check center? The base doesn't move)

On the picture, the centering bit is in the case between the two bases. I don't think the manual says anything about it.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ibDC4W-3L._SL500_AA300_.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B000QV35AK/sr=1-2/qid=1268336482/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=228013&s=hi&qid=1268336482&sr=1-2)

[Foras Noir]

Festool's 32 mm LR32 system uses a centering device. I know, I know - Festool is expensive. Here is a case where they thought through a problem and solved it. One reason to pay more sometimes is because it saves large amounts of time and money making things work.

I have no connection to Festool or any tool retailer whatsoever.

[Neil Brooks]

Milwaukee has one with their set. I would think it deals more with having interchangable bases. If you have a fixed base, it doesn't move unless you change the baseplate, correct? How would a fixed base create "play" or "slop" between the base and shaft? (Think of a router in a router table. Do you have to check center? The base doesn't move)

David,

In MY case, I think it's possible that the actual hole in the plywood base WAS centered, properly, but ... since I used rather thick ply, I 'countersunk' it with a larger Forstner bit.

If any of the holes wasn't perfectly centered, then that could allow some 'wiggle room' when the bearing was screwed in (??).

With a 3/4" OD bushing, and a 1/2" shank bit, there was adequate clearance, between the bit and the inside of the bushing, even if I didn't center it properly.

With a 5/8" OD bushing, though, and a 1/2" shank bit, I can see that there was not.

Quoting Tom Hintz (http://www.newwoodworker.com/guidebush.html)....


A word of caution: I always use a ¾" OD collar with a ½" bit because of the clearance this combination affords between the cutter and collar. Depending on the wall thickness, a 5/8" OD collar may only provide 1/32" clearance between the bit and the inner wall of the collar. Such tight clearance could cause problems if chips build up in this tiny space. With shaft speeds of 10,000 RPM or more, I want the extra clearance.

Amen, Tom :) Next time, remind me to read that FIRST !

[Rich Engelhardt]

(Older thread warning..)

I'd just like to express my thanks to whomever it was on SMC that first mentioned a centering cone.
I just got done using one on my DW611 plunge base & man was the base off!

A few quick turns of the base plate screws & it's in perfect alignment now.

[Keith Westfall]

Seems like a lathe would be your friend here (if you have one I guess!) turn a plug (doesn't really have to be a cone I think) that fits the i.d. of the guide bushing and either 1/4 or 1/2 to fit in the router. Make as many sizes as you need and you are good to go.

[Myk Rian]

Cone works better. You only need 1 instead of a drawer full

[Jason White]

Pat Warner sells them on his website... www.patwarner.com

I have one and it works great.


Good Day Everyone,
Does anyone use a centering cone with their router?

You chuck it up as a means to center the baseplate, which centers the guide bushings to the spindle. An application where this shines would be a
dovetail jig that relies on guide bushings. Otherwise, if your guide is mounted eccentric to the bit, innaccuracy can creep in.
As you trace around the jig guide fingers, different reference points make contact and introduce slop.

For many years I have just used a 1/4" straight bit to do the same...
but I had always wished for better.
I plan on doing some template routing, and would prefer to dial in the guide bushing before I get started.

Many phone calls inquiries later, noone seems to 'get' what I am talking about, and no store in the whole county carries them.
I had an offer to go to a far away store in person, make a special order,
pay in full up front, and wait 4-6 weeks. Sweet deal!
Another offered to bring one in for me, for just can$28. Sweeter deal!!
I hope our American woodworkers appreciate Rockler and Woodcraft.

So, before I jump through hoops to get one...
does anyone find a centering cone worthwhile?
I brought this to the Creek, because sometimes it's nice for people to know what you are talking about!
I get how modern marketing works, but it sure would be nice if manufacturers would just stick this little dandy in the kit.
I know I'd gladly pay a little more for a more complete starter set-up.
Thanks,
Walt
:)

[Rich Engelhardt]

Seems like a lathe would be your friend here (if you have one I guess!) turn a plug (doesn't really have to be a cone I think) that fits the i.d. of the guide bushingLike Myk says - the cone is the way to go.
You just loosen the baseplate screws, insert the 1/4" shaft in the collet then push the cone onto the shaft and push it into the hole.
It centers the plate automatically - then - just snug up the screws & it's perfectly centered.

The cone is one of those tools like a Kreg pocket hole jig - it's simple, easy and does exactly what it's supposed to do.