Arrrgggghhh, I am on the hook for previous owners water bill.

[Ben Cadotte]

I bought our house 16 months ago. I just got a notice that due to the previous owner not paying their bill. I have to pay it or have a lien placed on the property. The title company says the house disclosure says well, which it has on property, but the house is connected to city water. So basically since it was not taken care of at closing I am now on the hook for it. :mad::mad:

[Joe Pelonio]

I was in management at a water district, and worked there for 17 years. It was not legal for us to make a new owner pay for the old owner's bill.

They should have put a lien on it before it went to escrow, to be paid from the seller's profits. If the amount is significant, it might well be worth getting an attorney to fight it. Probably just a letter from an attorney will stop it. Some collection people will try threats in the hope of getting someone to pay when it's not something they can really do.

At the very least ask them to show you the law that gives them that authority.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I bought our house 16 months ago. I just got a notice that due to the previous owner not paying their bill. I have to pay it or have a lien placed on the property.

This smells wrong.
In Maine there is a straw man law that serves to protect the workmen who come under a general contractor and when the contractor skips out leaving the workmen high and dry they can go after the land owner where the work was performed. This law is misapplied in a lot of ways,

I think you need local counsel.


The title company says the house disclosure says well, which it has on property, but the house is connected to city water. So basically since it was not taken care of at closing I am now on the hook for it. :mad::mad:This tells me that you "took" the property without notice of any prior claims.

However, this claim should have arisen while the previous owner held title.

Now however, the claim should fall outside the chain of title.

I don't know whether Maine is a Race-Notice state or what but, I should think that local counsel will be able to help you.


If in the end you can not get out from under the water bill (and I really think you can) then, you can sue the prior owner, get a judgment in superior court (not small claims) and for the rest of his life that judgment will make it impossible for him to apply for so much as a credit card until he pays it.

[Jim Becker]

A agree with the sentiment that you need local council to deal with this. I don't feel it's right that you could be held responsible for a previous owner's debt when there was no evidence of that prior to closing, etc.

[Matt Meiser]

You definitely need to talk to someone local. I just recently read that there have been problems locally with title companies making sure water bills get paid and the result was that the new owner is on the hook for the bill--I would assume legally. Laws regarding this must vary by location.

[Larry Browning]

You should fight this. If there are no laws in you community to keep this from happening, there should be. Fight it for yourself, and also for everyone else that this could happen to in the future. This is simply not your debt!!!! You should not have to pay it.
I recently purchased a foreclosed house as rental property. When we tried to get the utilities turned on, we were told that we needed to show them proof that we had just purchased the house to get them turned on. I did that, and had no further issues. This is the way it should be for you as well.

[Lee Schierer]

I agree with the others, that you need to talk with a legal person, preferably the attorney that handled your closing that said your property was free and clear when they had you sign the title search. My guess is that the water company is out of luck with you paying the bill and they should not be able to deny service to you. If they property disclosure said the water supply was a well there may be fraud involved on someones part.

Around here title transfers are advertised in the paper and any business with outstanding obligations against the property are afforded that opportunity of notice that it is changing hands so they can voice their claim.

[Dave Lehnert]

How much are we talking$$$ If $20 I would pay it and move on.

[Mike SoRelle]

Check with who closed it (Atty or Title company ((not sure which type of state you're in))), and read the fine print in your insured closing protection letter, while they are designed to protect the lender, the coverage does extend to you.

The failure to disclose would fall back on the seller, though you might have to take them to civil court to collect on that.

[Justin Leiwig]

I'm not sure about how it is in maine, but herer if there is something that arises out of misrepresentation of the property you can pretty much sue everyone from the previous owners to the selling agent to the company that performed the title search. Did you purchase title insurance? I believe that it guards against things that happened before you took possession.

It's fishy that they are coming after you over a year later though. Talk to your mayor or city counsel.

[Rob Russell]

Our city water bill runs about $50/quarter, so it'd be about $250 for 16 months. I'd want to see want an attorney would cost before I went too far down that road.

It might be cheapest to pay the bill.

I would fire back something that puts the honiss on the water company to prove why they feel they have the right to lein your property for bills accrued before closing.

[Danny Thompson]

Check with your closing attorney, whom you have already paid to make sure the title was free and clear. If the disclosure is incorrect, then it is my understanding that the previous owner is liable.

[Ben Rafael]

How can a lien be placed on a property that is not owned by the debtor?
I'd sue the pants off of anyone who did that me.
You cant just go placing liens on property willy nilly.

[Dino Gutierrez]

Down here in GA, if you accept services, ie. water, construction ect...and do not pay...the contractor/service provider can place a lien against your property to recoup the outstand debt for said services.

Also, FYI, I have placed liens against property owners in my subdivision for violation of building convenants. I am the homeowner association president, and some owners have violated the convenants and refuse to abide by them. :mad: The lien is $50 a month until the violations are removed, that adds up and they cannot sell their house until it is paid through the county tax office. :eek:

In the forementioned case, I would fight it and seek legal counsel for direction. This sounds real fishy to me, or a bit over zealous on the water companies part.

Good luck!

[Ben Rafael]

Dino,
You are placing the lien on a property owned by the debtor. In this case the debtor does not own the property anymore and apparently the lien was not placed on the property before the new owner took title.

[Ben Cadotte]

My wife now works in a real estate office she is going to check with the owner about our rights. But one thing I did find out is there is a new law in Maine that allows Utilities to place a lien against the PROPERTY that was connected to the unpaid service!

I am not on the hook for alot of money, for me its more principle. I have to pay someone elses debt because someone else I paid money too, didn't do their job right. As of right now, everyone is saying its nobodys fault. :confused:

Basically since the house was in forclosure the title company said everything had to be settled before closing. After that I am responsible for. And that I signed a form stating that. So now I need to find out who's responsibility it actually was to ensure the bills were paid off before closing. And if in fact the dsiclosure was wrong and states only well service. Who made that dertimination!

My next problem with the bill is they are charging interest for the late bill, and want me to pay it with the interest. Even though this is the first I heard about it in 16 months.

An hour with an attorney would be more than the bill. So it's basically I have to pay it or risk loosing even more money trying to fight it.

[Ben Rafael]

My wife now works in a real estate office she is going to check with the owner about our rights. But one thing I did find out is there is a new law in Maine that allows Utilities to place a lien against the PROPERTY that was connected to the unpaid service!

I am not on the hook for alot of money, for me its more principle. I have to pay someone elses debt because someone else I paid money too, didn't do their job right. As of right now, everyone is saying its nobodys fault. :confused:

Basically since the house was in forclosure the title company said everything had to be settled before closing. After that I am responsible for. And that I signed a form stating that. So now I need to find out who's responsibility it actually was to ensure the bills were paid off before closing. And if in fact the dsiclosure was wrong and states only well service. Who made that dertimination!

My next problem with the bill is they are charging interest for the late bill, and want me to pay it with the interest. Even though this is the first I heard about it in 16 months.

An hour with an attorney would be more than the bill. So it's basically I have to pay it or risk loosing even more money trying to fight it.

That law doesn't make sense. How can you put a lien on a property many months after the debtor relinquishes title? Even a judge who got his degree off of a cereal box wouldn't enforce that law. You would have had to know about the debt before you took title.

[Ben Cadotte]

That law doesn't make sense. How can you put a lien on a property many months after the debtor relinquishes title? Even a judge who got his degree off of a cereal box wouldn't enforce that law. You would have had to know about the debt before you took title.

I have not found the law yet. I am wondering the same as you. But my feelings are with all the forclosures, and utilities and their lobby's. They probably got the law pushed through to protect the utilities.

[Matt Meiser]

I'd bet many places have these laws and I'd bet they only apply to to the utilities owned by the municipalities to protect cities/towns/townships/etc from bad debt. Like I said, I just saw something about it here.

I'd be ticked too, but I would probably pay it and move on.

[Ben Rafael]

Why wouldn't the utility put the lien on before the title transfer? Somethings fishy. Most utilities require a deposit that easily covers 1 or 2 months service, if the previous owner didn't pay for more than that time then a lien should have been done then. Heck, where I live they take a deposit and will shut you off if you are 30 days behind on top of that.

[Joe Pelonio]

Have you checked with the public utility commission? They should have jurisdiction over the water people and may be able to help in the case of a dispute. I looked over their website and find the authority for liens only applied to a multiple family residence, where the landlord has not paid the bill for the water being used by tenants.


http://maine.gov/mpuc/

[Rick Hubbard]

In this case the debtor does not own the property anymore and apparently the lien was not placed on the property before the new owner took title.

From my PERSONAL experience the yokels here in Maine who serve in small local goverment (including local water districts) are stunningly incompetent. There's a better than even chance they have NO idea what they are doing.

I think it's good advice to at least consult with attorney, but before you plunk down the $$$ to do that, find out if there was already a lien on the property when you purchased it. If there was, a call to the Title Insurance Company would be in order (while you are on the phone ask them if they would rather pay the lien themselves or have their mal-practice insurance pay it).

[Ted Jay]

I bought our house 16 months ago. I just got a notice that due to the previous owner not paying their bill. I have to pay it or have a lien placed on the property. The title company says the house disclosure says well, which it has on property, but the house is connected to city water. So basically since it was not taken care of at closing I am now on the hook for it. :mad::mad:

Why can't you send it to the title company or the title company's attorney and have them send it to the previous owners?

[Ben Cadotte]

Why can't you send it to the title company or the title company's attorney and have them send it to the previous owners?

I think the deal is they have been trying to get the past owner to pay. When we went in to the title office to sign papers, I actually said I felt bad buying a forclosure home. The attorney representing Fanne Mae said this is the 3rd forclosure she has handled over the years on this couple. She said they play the game of getting someone to sell them a house and for a year or so they make payments. Then they quit paying. Takes about a year to kick someone out if they know what they are doing. She said she believes the couple has had over 7 forclosures. So basically there is no way the guy is paying the bill.

Most likly I will just pay the bill as it would cost more to fight it. Especially since I travel for work. Would be too hard to fight it, with me gone. Or very expensive if I had to fly home just to deal with it. But I am collecting information just to see if there is a way out of it.

[Ted Jay]

I think the deal is they have been trying to get the past owner to pay. When we went in to the title office to sign papers, I actually said I felt bad buying a forclosure home. The attorney representing Fanne Mae said this is the 3rd forclosure she has handled over the years on this couple. She said they play the game of getting someone to sell them a house and for a year or so they make payments. Then they quit paying. Takes about a year to kick someone out if they know what they are doing. She said she believes the couple has had over 7 forclosures. So basically there is no way the guy is paying the bill.

Most likly I will just pay the bill as it would cost more to fight it. Especially since I travel for work. Would be too hard to fight it, with me gone. Or very expensive if I had to fly home just to deal with it. But I am collecting information just to see if there is a way out of it.

Ask the water company if they will drop off all the interest you will pay it and get it out of the way,(the IRS does it all the time). If not then ask them for their lawyers number, so you can give it to your lawyer, but always talk to the guy at the top.

[Joe Pelonio]

Ask the water company if they will drop off all the interest you will pay it and get it out of the way,(the IRS does it all the time). If not then ask them for their lawyers number, so you can give it to your lawyer, but always talk to the guy at the top.
That's a good suggestion, just to get rid of it, but I still think they are trying something illegal, which is to coerce you into paying someone else's bill. Unfortunately it could cost more to fight it than to pay it, which is what they are counting on.

[Tom Godley]

You may be forced to list this under an education expense :)

Not one of my closings worked the same way -- something was always different with each.

My first house was purchased in New Jersey and I had an attorney - everyone always has an attorney in NJ!!! Anyway, as a kid it was explained to me that the way the title insurance worked in NJ I really needed an attorney - what did I know -- so I got one. The attorneys went over everything - the title company did almost nothing. In Pennsylvania, my experience is that no one uses an attorney and the title company does everything. Same in South Carolina -- I did use an attorney in New York but not in Maine.

With every one of my closing -- My attorney or my title company kept track of all the municipal bills, utility or taxes that would affect the typical property in the jurisdiction - even strange things like trash pick-u. If for some reason there was a problem found -- a phone call was made and if that did not answer the question -- money was placed in escrow that satisfied the title company.

I think you should have had this bill at settlement - And it should have been paid from the sale proceeds. Now that you own the property I think you are out of luck. If you had an attorney he should have noticed the missing bill. I always bring a list with me - my first attorney had one - good idea.

I did buy a foreclosure in Philadelphia and it was a mess - I can see how you could miss something small.

[Rick Gifford]

If it has been said before I appologize, but on a side note if for some crazy reason you do have to pay the bill, I'd go after the previous owners for restitution.

Shouldnt be up to you, but if you get screwed on this you have to do what you have to do.

[Ben Rafael]

I've done the following when I felt I was being wronged:

Write the pres. of the water co. a letter explaining the situation. Tell him that you know you are not responsible for the debt and so on. Be nice. Then state that if they wish to pursue this further that you will have your attorney file a suit for harassment.
This has never failed me. These guys dont want to deal with a piddly amount of money.