How would you secure this to wall

[Craig D Peltier]

91368 See picture.
Its 113 long by 18 deep by 26 tall walnut plywood unit with center hardwood wine rack built with slats. One shelve behind each door, divider between each door. As of now the top will be 1.25 thick walnut or but im doubting travertine.
I havent figured out plywood yet so im not sure of wieght , Id guess 350lbs plus weight of china and goods inside.

Its going to float on wall 8" off of floor.
The back may have to be scribed to wall so there mayb be a 3/4 wide hollow behind unit. Of course I can block it off where attachemnts need to be made. As well as sides may need to be scribed thus again creating the dead space behind back.

Should I use a 3/4 back and lag bolt into studs? Should I use 1/2 back with nailer strip top and bottom? or 1/4 back?

Should I use nailer strip on top hardwood ( it will be butt jointed into sides but notched out at dividers) and false bottom that allows me to have some steel brackets made to hold it underneath (shaped like a flat L ).

Will any of these work? I suppose if uppers can be help up with nailer strip and screws, lag bolts or heavy duty long panheads screws will work well in this application?
Im aware the unti could be stronger than the wall itself, I hope this sint pushing the limits.It is quite long so I will get quite a few fastneres into wall. Hopefully almost every 16 inches.

I think walnut hardwood weighs about 3.25 lbs per bd ft. Top maybe only 62lbs. I think wine rack will weigh about the same. Theres no face frame.

Thanks

[Matthew Voss]

Craig-

What about french cleats and these:

http://www.grkfasteners.com/en/CAB_1_information.htm

[Lee Schierer]

Have you considered a French cleat to attach it. The 3/4" space behind would be ideal for this type of hanger. Or run Timberlok screws through the back in to the studs.

[glenn bradley]

Another vote for cleats.

[Jamie Buxton]

I've had unhappy experience with french cleats and long cabinets. If the wall is not straight (and many aren't), the wall-mounted cleat curves like the wall. The cabinet-mounted cleat is straight, because a cabinetmaker built it. The straight cleat fails to mate properly with the curved one. You can fuss around with shimming the wall-mounted cleat so that it is straight, but in this case, I'd just lag-bolt a ledger board -- a 2x4 or the like -- to the wall below the cabinet. The rear bottom edge of the cabinet sits on that 2x4. If the wall is a little wavey, there's no problem. Then inside the cabinet I'd run screws through the back panels and/or nailers into every stud I could find. The primary weight of the cabinet is supported by the lagbolts. The screws above mostly stop the cabinet from falling forward. If you don't like using lagbolts in shear like that, make the 2x4 a 2x8, and have the lower edge stand on the floor. It is tucked at the back of the cabinet, and nobody will ever see it.

[John Keeton]

Jamie is right on the probability of the wall being straight, however, I still like a french cleat. I would check the wall area for flatness before I eliminated that idea. You may be lucky and have a good opportunity for the cleat.

[Eric DeSilva]

"350lbs plus weight of china and goods inside"--you can put an awful lot of weight in what looks to be like 30 ft^3... (1.5 x 2 x 9.5 cubic feet--2' assuming 34" top means 26" cabinet based on it being 8" off the ground), plus figure its a height where someone could lean on the outside edge of the top...

I might be inclined to worry a little bit about whether the wall is up for it.

If it were me, I might get some angle iron welded together in a "C" shape, bolt it to the floor joists below the floor, the wall, and have the top of the "C" protruding out to hang the cabinet on... Then again, I've been accused of overengineering things...

[Peter Quinn]

I'd go french cleat, if the wall is flat as Jamie noted, or source a steel version of a french cleat, possibly angle brackets hung securely to the wall with dados in the case to slide them into, a set top and bottom, or Fasten Master deck ledger bolts which are thinner diameter than a standard lag, go in easier, and are much stronger.

[Peter Quinn]

PS...you can shim the cleat if the wall is particularly bowed to keep it straight, the steel cleats should stay flat regardless of substrate.

[Ed Peters]

on all my wall hung cabinets. I then cut a dado 1/2" deep by about 2" wide about 3 or 4" down from the top of the cabinet. For units with exposed ends, the dado is held short a couple of inches from the end. To hang the cabinet, attach a strip of good quality 1/2" plywood to the wall at the appropriate height. Send a 3" cabinet hanging screw through into each stud. Then you can transfer the stud locations to the cabinet and predrill above the dado and at the bottom for additional fasteners. Just hang the cabinet on the rail and secure through the predrilled holes.

Ed

[Craig D Peltier]

Jamie is right on the probability of the wall being straight, however, I still like a french cleat. I would check the wall area for flatness before I eliminated that idea. You may be lucky and have a good opportunity for the cleat.
Its not straight, it never is. I checked.

[Craig D Peltier]

on all my wall hung cabinets. I then cut a dado 1/2" deep by about 2" wide about 3 or 4" down from the top of the cabinet. For units with exposed ends, the dado is held short a couple of inches from the end. To hang the cabinet, attach a strip of good quality 1/2" plywood to the wall at the appropriate height. Send a 3" cabinet hanging screw through into each stud. Then you can transfer the stud locations to the cabinet and predrill above the dado and at the bottom for additional fasteners. Just hang the cabinet on the rail and secure through the predrilled holes.

Ed
This would work well but its the same concept as the french cleat and I think the wall would need to be straight.


I've had unhappy experience with french cleats and long cabinets. If the wall is not straight (and many aren't), the wall-mounted cleat curves like the wall. The cabinet-mounted cleat is straight, because a cabinetmaker built it. The straight cleat fails to mate properly with the curved one. You can fuss around with shimming the wall-mounted cleat so that it is straight, but in this case, I'd just lag-bolt a ledger board -- a 2x4 or the like -- to the wall below the cabinet. The rear bottom edge of the cabinet sits on that 2x4. If the wall is a little wavey, there's no problem. Then inside the cabinet I'd run screws through the back panels and/or nailers into every stud I could find. The primary weight of the cabinet is supported by the lagbolts. The screws above mostly stop the cabinet from falling forward. If you don't like using lagbolts in shear like that, make the 2x4 a 2x8, and have the lower edge stand on the floor. It is tucked at the back of the cabinet, and nobody will ever see it.

Jamie the ledger idea is good because the bowed wall wont be affected enough where it couldnt sit on it. Still worried the unit is front heavy.Not ripping out of wall but ripping back off of cabinet.

Please keep suggestions coming. Maybe I can talk her into two feet in the front one on each end 2x2 square, that should hold it.

[Steve Clardy]

Worried about ripping the back off.

Screw the cabinet back on.;)

Use a 1/2 or 3/4 back and just lag it to the studs.

[Craig D Peltier]

Worried about ripping the back off.

Screw the cabinet back on.;)

Use a 1/2 or 3/4 back and just lag it to the studs.

Im getting the feeling here that lags arent as good as some of the fancy deck and grex screws out there.

[Joe Jensen]

Im getting the feeling here that lags arent as good as some of the fancy deck and grex screws out there.

I really doubt that a 1/4" lag is weaker than a 1/8" cabinet screw.

On the curved wall, will you scribe the top to the wall for a perfect match along the back? Or is the cabinet a piece of furniture that will move when the owners sell the house?

[Craig D Peltier]

I really doubt that a 1/4" lag is weaker than a 1/8" cabinet screw.

On the curved wall, will you scribe the top to the wall for a perfect match along the back? Or is the cabinet a piece of furniture that will move when the owners sell the house?

It will be scribed to the wall as a permanent fixture, essentially built in.

[Joe Jensen]

It will be scribed to the wall as a permanent fixture, essentially built in.

I would then either put a 3/4" plywood back on that I could lag to the studs, or I would be a 6" wide board or plywood strip across the top and bottom of the back and lag through that. I'm a fan of french cleats, but they are problematic on long curvy walls, and IMHO they only really make hoisting the cabinet up onto the wall easier...joe

[Ed Peters]

This would work well but its the same concept as the french cleat and I think the wall would need to be straight.

Any bow in the wall does not complicate the fit between the dado and the wall mounted strip as it would on a french cleat.

Ed

[Craig D Peltier]

Any bow in the wall does not complicate the fit between the dado and the wall mounted strip as it would on a french cleat.

Ed

Thanks Ed, I will rethink your idea.
I understand theres a dadoe in the back panel and then a strip on the wall. If the wall is bowed it flex to the strip. If the cabinet is straight and the the top has a scribe on it and the wall is bowed in middle this will only allow the middle area that intially touched will fit in. The scribe will only affect the shape of top and not draw in the ends of the cabinet to fit in.
I drew a rough sketch so i could think it through and see what I meant.

91402

[Thom Sturgill]

Try z-clips - similar in concept to a french cleat but in metal, and thinner. Here's one source:
http://www.monarchmetal.com/pages/panelclip.html ( I don't know anything about the company, just what google turned up )

You could mount it in sections and shim to be straight. That would let you bypass the worst bow in the wall.

[Lee Schierer]

Im getting the feeling here that lags arent as good as some of the fancy deck and grex screws out there.

Unfortunately most of the lag screws and wood screws sold by the Borgs and many hardware stores aren't what they used to be. I've twisted off far too many 1/4" lags just tightening them. After seeing the Timberlok lags at work, I don't use anything else where strength is needed.
http://www.fastenmaster.com/Files/FastenMasterProductFiles/8/Images/PhotoImage1_Medium.jpg
They are a higher grade steel and considerably stronger than your common lag screw. They are designed for structural framing applications. A 1/4" screw has greater shear strength than a 3/8" lag and they come in 2-1/2" to 10" lengths. I have no affiliation witht eh company, I am just very satisfied with their product.

Fastenmaster (http://www.fastenmaster.com/product.aspx?currentPage=1&catID=7&prodID=8)

[Craig D Peltier]

Unfortunately most of the lag screws and wood screws sold by the Borgs and many hardware stores aren't what they used to be. I've twisted off far too many 1/4" lags just tightening them. After seeing the Timberlok lags at work, I don't use anything else where strength is needed.
http://www.fastenmaster.com/Files/FastenMasterProductFiles/8/Images/PhotoImage1_Medium.jpg
They are a higher grade steel and considerably stronger than your common lag screw. They are designed for structural framing applications. A 1/4" screw has greater shear strength than a 3/8" lag and they come in 2-1/2" to 10" lengths. I have no affiliation witht eh company, I am just very satisfied with their product.

Fastenmaster (http://www.fastenmaster.com/product.aspx?currentPage=1&catID=7&prodID=8)

Thanks for link.

[Craig D Peltier]

Not sure if anyone wants to read through this but this is what others have done as well.Not my project.

1) I installed a vanity like this one time and what I did was lag bolt a piece of steel angle to the studs at the bottom, I cut the sheetrock to get the angle iron flat against the studs, set the cabinet on it and screwed thru the angle into the cabinet bottom. The top of the cabinet was attached w/ screws thru the back into the studs, I used a 3/4" back that was dadoed and screwed into the sides. The angle iron holds the weight of the cabinet, and the top screws hold it from tipping foward. This cabinet had stone tops and heavy sinks and worked out just fine.

2) We have been doing quite a few of these lately. Seems like this years flavor.
We also do frameless - Prefin.ply,but instead of our normal dadoed in 1/4" back W/ 1/2" nailer, I use a 3/4" back ,biscuted & Pocket screwed to the sides, 2" screws into solid top & bottom.
If they are going to tile the wall first , like in the last one I did ( 12" X 12" polished granite) work with the tile guy to leave a section out beforehand.
When securing to the side wall- start with a filler , and screw a 3/4" large ply plate to the wall- from back stud to just up behind the filler strip.
I have also done some with legs- 2" dia.
chrome or S.S. set back from the front so that they still appear to be floating.
Check out Hafeale catalog, they have a few.
I have full tops and 3/4" backs anyway so nothing different there. I put a 8" strip on the wall to the floor as a finished back wall (pickes up the vertical weight) or I think better, a shallow 4" deep box x 8" tall and set the cabinets on that. some screws to the wall and it will stay without my loosing any sleep.

3) i have done a few of those vanities .mounting to the wall is half the battle.
adam is right,what you have to make sure is that the cab. is put together for this application.
what i usually do,on wall to wall situation i put a cleat on the side,that will hold the weight of the top and you can secure the cab to it.
as for open end,i reinforce the cabinet by putting a 1x4 on the top side(inside the cab.)with glue and screws,then i put a 1x4 on the back of the cab and secure it with #10 screws to the studs.
i then put a metal angle bracket on the 2 pcs of 1x4.
this will make a strong joint for the side of the cabinet.
make sure you secure the cabinets to the studs.
i did a bathroom like that about a year ago and when i went back a couple weeks later to do some touch up,i walked inside the bathroom and i saw a painter standing on the vanity(on the open end)when he saw me, he jump down.i gave him a look and toll him not to do that again.he look like he was about 150-165lbs.
i looked at the vanity and it didn't move at all!
after a test like this,i can sleep at nigh


4) For 110" wall-to-wall cabinet", because of the granite and live-load weight, I would use decorative fillers on left and right (to hide side brackets, and install 8" x 8" Steel "L" brackets towards the front on each side of the cabinet, and a minimum of four (4) more along the back, screwed into the wall and underside of the cabinet. Then also screw the sides and back to the wall.
Being that it is wall to wall, I would also tell the client because of the combined weight of the cabinet, granite and contents, you need to open the wall where the cabinet will sit (one coat of spackle patch) to install some support blocking (be sure to charge for this and the extra steel supports). This way you can also control where the side screws can be located (towards the front). When screwing, two at the top (3" apart), two at the middle and two at the bottom (with decorative washers).
You can do the same with the smaller cabs with one side exposed with the same concept... Also, as others have said, cab-construction is very important (3/4" construction, screws and glue, preferrably dadoe and rabbet or butt-joint).


5) we have had good results by using a metal tee brace that is lagged into the side of the studs and penetrates the sheetrock, 22", at either the bottom of the cabinet(allowing the cabinet to sit on the steel) or at the top of the cabinet sides(allowing the cabinet to be screwed to the steel and have the weight of the top rest directly on the steel).