Post midwest flood advice needed

[Darren Vass]

Hi Folks.

I had a fully finished basement that was destroyed by the storms of June 12th. Water was up to my basement ceiling about 8 feet high. Total damage was a little over $40,000. My Jet bandsaw, Ridgid table saw (cast iron), and 2 HP single stage dust collector were salvaged by the clean up crew but were all underwater.

I'm not an elctrician type. Should I throw these away or is there anything I can do to get these machines back to functional capacity? What do I need to do? The table saw table is all rusted. Do I have to go beneath the table to look for rust? The belts of both saws move freely? Someone told me that even the motors might still work, but do I and how would I clean out the motors? What else do I have to do to clean stuff out?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Darren

[Ken Fitzgerald]

The electrical motors could possibly work as long as you let them totally dry out first. I would be concerned about shortened life due to rust and grease in bearings.


Sorry for you tradgedy and good luck with your recovery!

[Lee Schierer]

Many motor shops can bake out water soaked motors and save them. I would remove any visible rust. I'm not sure i would take everything apart down to the individual pieces to clean out rust under the table. I would replace the switches, as they will take a long time to dry out.

Good luck!

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Darren, as a Technologist I've been involved in many refurbishments of submerged electrical equipment.

Without sounding crass, you don't have any equipment, in my opinion that's worth spending the money on to refurbish.

If it were my equipment, I'd be having it replaced. Small electric motors are less expensive to purchase, than pay a motor shop to overhaul, same for starters, switches etc.

I'm very sorry to hear about your misfortune, as well as your many neighbours who have also sufferred flood damage.....Regards, Rod.

[Greg Sznajdruk]

I've used this product with good results.

http://restorx.com/water-unwetCPDL.htm

Greg

[Tim Thomas]

Site member Dominic Greco actually wrote an entire article on this very subject:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/articles/5/

In 1999, he experienced almost exactly what you did when his basement flooded and his tools were submerged in water. The article that he wrote is excellent and provides lots of detail on the products and methods he used to restore his tools.

Good luck to you Darren.

[Chuck Saunders]

Total cleaning is the key. Probably the biggest threat is silt. All of the tools surfaces are now coated with a fine abrasive layer of silt. If this is not removed, you are wasting your time on the other stuff. Dominic's article is very useful. You can recover your tools but you definitely have your work cut out for you. I do not envy your task.

[Russ Filtz]

Very good writeup by Dominic! I have a couple pointers that might help. I have used a random orbit sander to clean rusted tops, but not with abrasive sandpaper. I used some scotchbrite pads pressed down with the sander and kept it lubricated with mineral spirits, wipe down with paper towels often.

Another tip after getting metal cleaned. Get a hold of some Eezox corrosion protectant before using T-9 or wax. this stuff is amazing at preventing rust. you'll probably have to source it online as I've never seen it in stores.

Here's a link to some tests for common firearm corrosion preventers.

http://www.6mmbr.com/corrosiontest.html

[Rob Will]

Daren,
Sorry about your loss.
I would sit your machines out in the driveway, remove all covers and electrical components and use a pressure washer.

Get yourself a couple of large cans of WD-40 and a can of Never-Seez. Spray EVERYTHING with the WD-40 and use the Never-Seez on bolt threads, especially those that are threaded into cast iron surfaces.

I would replace any bearing possible.

I would use a Scothbrite pad mounted on a random orbit sander for the machined surfaces. Also the Rust Free product sold by Sears and others is pretty good for rust removal and prevention.

DO NOT APPLY POWER to the motors. Flush them out with a garden hose, allow to dry and take them to a motor shop for new bearings etc.

On smaller motors, it may be cheaper just to replace them.

Good luck!

Rob

[Darren Vass]

A great thanks to all for your advice.

Restoring my house is progressing. I now have a new water heater and furnace. I hope that FEMA helps out at least with these items. I have not gotten the cost of the clean up bill from Service Master yet. It took them 4 days to clean up the basment. I have to replace 2 Egress windows.

The million dollar question is: Was this a 50 year, 100 year, 500 year or 1 to 4 year flood? Everyone I've spoken with here tell me they have never seen this much water in such a short time since their childhood at least 50 years ago.

If it is one of those once in a lifetime floods, I would be more inclined to refinish the basement again. I have all the studs intact. They only ripped out the dry wall and carpeting.

Thanks again to all.

Darren

[Bruce Benjamin]

A great thanks to all for your advice.

Restoring my house is progressing. I now have a new water heater and furnace. I hope that FEMA helps out at least with these items. I have not gotten the cost of the clean up bill from Service Master yet. It took them 4 days to clean up the basment. I have to replace 2 Egress windows.

The million dollar question is: Was this a 50 year, 100 year, 500 year or 1 to 4 year flood? Everyone I've spoken with here tell me they have never seen this much water in such a short time since their childhood at least 50 years ago.

If it is one of those once in a lifetime floods, I would be more inclined to refinish the basement again. I have all the studs intact. They only ripped out the dry wall and carpeting.

Thanks again to all.

Darren

Darren, I'm very sorry to hear about the disaster that hit you and your community. It's got to be heart breaking. It may take a while, (Depending on insurance and/or Fema) but you can always replace anything you can buy at the store. But how many times do you want to do that? Just because someone terms it a, "Hundred year flood" or whatever, doesn't mean that it won't happen again in a year or five or ten years.

Millions of people in the U.S. live in areas where if something goes wrong they're going to be flooded. That's not me and it's not by accident. I live near Shasta Dam which is nearly the largest dam of it's kind in the world. It would take at least an atomic blast to break it but ya never know. But even if the dam did completely burst I wouldn't be flooded. Back in the early '90s when we were looking for a house to buy I purposely chose a house that would practically never be flooded by any significant amount of water. I do have 4 or 5 small lakes near and above my house but their path, should the dams break, is well out of the way and below my house. To me buying in a flood plane, no matter what the frequency, is just playing Russian Roulette.

It's the same for all of the people who live in areas surrounded by brush and trees. Sure, it's beautiful and who doesn't want to live in close contact with nature? But the risk is obvious and the people who choose not to clear a defensible space around their house are pushing their luck. Right now the Redding, Ca. area is being hit hard with literally hundreds of lightening fires. I was up very late last night watching a huge fire out by Shasta Dam. I had a perfect front row seat as the winds whipped one of the largest fires into an inferno and I watched it destroy mountain after mountain of timber in an area where me and my family love to play. There are many beautiful homes in the path of this and many of the other fires in the area and I don't know if they're still there today or not. It was a beautiful place to live but now, even if their homes survived the fires, it's not so beautiful anymore. I hope to build a home in the mountains around Redding some day but I will sacrifice some of the surrounding beauty in favor of protecting my house from fire.

You see all the time on the news people who say they'll keep rebuilding after the flood or fire destroys their homes for the first, second, or even third time. Good for them!:rolleyes: But in my opinion they should get absolutely no government assistance after the first time. Zip. If a flood destroys your home once, it will do it again. Learn a lesson. Depending of if it's just grass and brush, or if it's tall timber, a fire can burn through an area more than once in just a few years. It's happened here in Redding where people have had their houses burned down from wild fires twice in just a few years. In my opinion, (Probably not a popular one) they should get no government assistance to replace the second home. Sorry.

My advice is to MOVE. If you can possibly afford to sell your house then move to higher ground. My house will only be flooded if there's another Biblical flood. You should do the same or rebuild it on stilts. Best of luck to you, your family and your neighbors. You've all been in my prayers.

Bruce

[Rob Will]

A good rule of thumb is to ask "how does flat ground get flat?".

The answer is sedimentation from repeated flooding.

If anyone lives near a stream and the topography is generally flat, that is a good indicator to raise your house or move to higher ground.

FWIW, I live on a farm called "Creekland Farm". My house is built up on the side of a hill for a reason.

Rob

[George Bregar]

"Flooded basement" does not equal "flood". Not sure where Darren lives or the cause (other than lots of rain very fast)...the Fox Valley is quite a large area and it was not flooded out. There were flooded basements throughout the state including here in Milwaukee. Most were caused by sewer back up and/or sump pump failure.

[Darren Vass]

Hi guys. I tend to agree with the notion of moving if you live near or in a flood area.

I don't happen to live in one.

Hi George, good to know that you are close in Milwaukee.

About 50% of the houses in Oshkosh had water in the basements. The development I live in was poorly developed (so we are finding out). The sewage and storm drains do not have enough capacity to handle 12 inches of rain within one week. Milwaukee suffered the same problem.

I will be redoing my basement, so that it looks respectable, and will sell my house in about a year or when the market is a little better. This is the wrong time to sell a house with so many sitting around.

The heavy rains seem to hit every 4 years or so.

Anyway, I doubt if there is any perfect place to live. Although, I do think I will be looking for higher ground for my next house.

Darren

[Darren Vass]

Good and bad news. My bandsaw, table saw and dust collector all turned over and worked for a few seconds. I shut them off and none of them would turn over again. Does anyone know what this means? I believe that the motors were dry.

Thanks,

Darren

[Pete Copeland]

The million dollar question is: Was this a 50 year, 100 year, 500 year or 1 to 4 year flood? Everyone I've spoken with here tell me they have never seen this much water in such a short time since their childhood at least 50 years ago.



Darren


Darren,

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I'm not the guy to comment on your electrical troubles, but as a geologist, I will comment on your geological question. To refer to a high water event as a "100 year flood" or "50 year flood" is a very unfortunate practice. A 100 year flood is one that has a average recurrence interval of 100 years but that's just the average. This is like saying that on average with a pair of dice you will roll snake eyes one out of 36 times but it does not mean that there will be 35 rolls between each occurrence. The chances of rolling snake eyes is 1/36, or 2.78%. This does not change each time you roll as the dice have no memory of the past: each roll is an independent event. The better way to think of a 100 year flood is one that has a 1% chance of occurring within a given year. The chances of experiencing this flood do not change from year to year because the atmosphere does not remember last year. Each year is independent.

I don't know what the average recurrence interval is for the flood you just experienced but what ever it is, don't get the notion that that number is how many years you can expect to go by before a similar flood occurs in your town. The chances of flooding are a function of climate and topography and those things aren't going to change much in the next 20 years so the chances of flooding are going to stay the same. All that being said, the chances of the flood you just experienced are pretty low. You just got unlucky this year. Next year will probably be better but the actual probability of flooding hasn't changed.

Good luck with your clean up.

[Darren Vass]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all your advice and kind words. It's almost 3 months later and I'm happy it is. It has been a most difficult time.

Basically, I analyzed the problem. Where did the water come into the basement. It came in through the egress windows because the old window wells only came up to ground level. Also, the old wells were the three or four piece model. I worked with a good contractor and decided to fix the problem so water could not or would find it really difficult to get in again. Went with a Wellcraft one piece moulding with an extension. Now the new well is larger, deeper and higher. It extends about 2 feet above the ground level. The water never got higher than ground level at the siding of the house. I figure, if the water gets higher that 2 feet above that level, than it's flooding my main level. Also replaced the old cheap windows with a couple of Kolbe windows. The new dry wall is up and nice. Also put in a full bath when before it was a half bath. Now I also have a back up sump pump on two different circuits. I'm debating on whether to put in a back up generator that is hooked up to the power box and gas line. That would run me 5K+. I'm tapped out for dough now, but perhaps in the Spring. I have photos of before and after if anyone is ever interested in seeing.

Thanks again,

Darren

[Jim O'Dell]

Good to see you're getting through most of the hard part. I'm sure it has been more work than you ever imagined it would be. What did you end up doing with the power tools? Did your insurance or FEMA help you at all? Thanks for the update! Jim.

[Craig Hemsath]

Darren, a word of cautionary advice. I'm going through the same thing as you (albeit my basement is unfinished so there was much less damage). You need to be careful if you're trying to totally seal your basement off. If water gets around your house and can't get in, the pressure on the outside of your basement walls can cave them in. When we flooded this spring two of my neighbors did all they can to keep the water out while it's surrounding their houses, both of them are now missing good portions of their foundations.

I've always heard you're better off to just let the water in and clean up later.

[Brian Kent]

As soon as water starts coming in, run down to the basement and cary all of your power tools to the attic. Just to be safe, do this every time it rains!;)

[Darren Vass]

Craig,

So what's a homeowner to do? One of my neighbors wondered about making more of a trench between our houses so as to direct water away from the houses and toward to street. The water in the front of the house only came up to halfway up the yard about 15 feet from the house. The backyard water was high up to about 3 feet at the backyard back line. It came up to the grade line at the house's back wall. I just hope the rain does not come like that again at least for 3-4 years. Perhaps, then I'll have moved to where it's warmer than Wisconsin.

Darren

[Craig Hemsath]

Darren, that's a tough situation. I guess in your situation maybe it might not be too bad of an idea to seal the windows up. I was under the impression that you had water splashing against your house. I'm assuming this is the first time thing? You're not in a flood zone or anything? If it was only getting in your yard the drain might be a bad idea.