Storm Window Pics---The Begining

[Peter Quinn]

I'm starting a set of 3 arched top storm windows for a client this week. A while back a few Creekers asked me for pics of some I made last fall and sadly I had none. I thought I might try to post a brief chronicle of this set for the front of the house (last fall I did the back) in case there is any interest.

I started by buying the lumber, 6/4 African Mahogany, pattern grade with perfect vertical grain and no figure, end of last month. Windows, particularly the styles, require very stable wood. I like to let the wood acclimate for at least a few weeks in the shop. They may move a bit in time, but I need the stock to stay flat and straight at least long enough to get it shaped and glued up!:D:D

These storms are paint grade to finish at 1 1/8" thickness and the bottom pane of glass will be 'convertible', which means it can be removed from the inside and replaced with a screen. Both glass and screen will be held in aluminum storm channel frames covered with a thin wooden frame. These storms will reside on the third floor dormers of a georgian colonial and protect beautiful arched prime sashes with gothic bars. The client doesn't want to climb a 45' ladder to change from storms to screens, can't say I blame him, so we designed these for convenience.

I started by cutting the parts oversized 1/2" to 3/4" in width, 6" over in length and then flattened and planned to 1/8" over final thickness. Now I'll let the parts relax a bit. When going from 6/4 to 1 1/8" I like to give things a few days to settle down before proceeding. Next I'll reflatten and plane to 1/16" over final thickness the day I'm ready to shape and glue. I prefer this part happens in one day, or by the next morning so things can't move too much.

This will be my first use of the Laguna Platimum Slot Mortiser, so I guess a working review of that machine will be wrapped into this thread. So far I have found the base to woefully insufficient to support the post and table in terms of rigidity and have a problem with the top rails which create lateral movement being warped. Due to the warped rails I either have to loosen the set screws which snug the bearings and remove slop to the point that everything is a bit sloppy, or deal with a table that is very hard to move side to side. Thus far Laguna CS has been polite but unhelpful. Seems they don't have ANY parts for this machine, so what good is a warranty if no parts are available? I hope they will resolve the situation shortly. Oddly, even given the sloppy table, test pieces have created fairly accurate slot mortises. Hmm?

[Jack Camillo]

thanks for the remarks on the laguna 'platinum' slot mortiser. i have been fighting the temptation, and you have helped me overcome.

[Peter Quinn]

thanks for the remarks on the laguna 'platinum' slot mortiser. i have been fighting the temptation, and you have helped me overcome.

I did the first set with a plunge router and some simple jigs, and may resort to that if I can't resolve the mortiser issue quickly. Seems they have no parts inventory and I have reached a point after a week of conversations with CS where my calls are not being, shall I say, returned promptly if at all. I will soon become a very squeaky wheel.

I should say that my test cuts with the machine were acceptable, though they were in rather short pieces and I worry about things distorting as the parts get a bit longer. One things for sure, I am convinced by the slot mortiser in general and will have a working model from some maker in my shop shortly. At present I sure wish I had bought the Rojek I saw at an Industrial Woodworking Expo recently. It was $800 more for a similar machine, but the tables moved very smoothly and the motor had a reversing switch.

[Tom Godley]

Peter -- I am very interested in this topic.

A home I own is constructed with gothic double hung windows set into stone walls. The windows date to the 1870's - surprisingly the frames are in unbelievable shape but the sashes are a mess. Most are about five foot high. Unfortunately, I have two that are over eleven feet tall -- actually three panes.

I wanted to have new sashes made but have run into problems -- I am curious how these are constructed and installed.

[Vince Shriver]

Peter, this is a terrific post and I'll be following it with keen interest. Right off the get-go, I'd guess you know your way around a cabinet shop judging from the machinery in the pics. Thanks for taking the time to document this project.

[Peter Quinn]

Peter -- I am very interested in this topic.

A home I own is constructed with gothic double hung windows set into stone walls. The windows date to the 1870's - surprisingly the frames are in unbelievable shape but the sashes are a mess. Most are about five foot high. Unfortunately, I have two that are over eleven feet tall -- actually three panes.

I wanted to have new sashes made but have run into problems -- I am curious how these are constructed and installed.

There is a reprint of a book called Modern Pratical Joinery by George Elliot available from Amazon written turn of the last century by Mr. Elliot, a British master joiner. It contains a myriad of excellent detailed drawings and design/construction methods for the highest level millwork from that period. Worth a look.

[Ralph Barhorst]

I just did a search for the above mentioned and found that it is available. The search should be "Modern Practical Joinery by George Ellis".

[Mike Wilkins]

Looks like a great start on the windows. Mahogany was once used a lot for exterior grade windows, but not today.
Funny you should mention the difficulty with the movement of the mortiser table. This mortising table must be made by the same manufacturer that makes the Rojek and others. I have a jointer/planer/mortiser sold by Andreou Machinery of New Jersey that has the same mortising table, and I also have the same movement problems. I have tried steel wool and Teflon lube with limited help. I have just learned to work around the stiff movement to get the job done.
Thanks for the tutorial on making screens. I made some inexpensive ones 5 years ago, but not with weather-resistant wood. Time for some new ones.

[Michael Weber]

I want to add my thanks for posting this topic. Just bought a 100 year old and it currently has aluminum storms on the double hung windows (none on the old wood casements). I would like to replace with some nice quality wooden storms with a removable insert for screen/glass. I will be following your progress. Thanks for posting.
Mike

[Josiah Bartlett]

Just curious, why not glaze them in the traditional method instead of using aluminum? Aluminum conducts heat and causes condensation problems when in direct contact with wood.

[Neal Clayton]

i would guess for overall thickness since it sounds like the person wants them to be functional rather than a fixed pane.

[Peter Quinn]

Just curious, why not glaze them in the traditional method instead of using aluminum? Aluminum conducts heat and causes condensation problems when in direct contact with wood.

I mentioned in the OP the storms will be in third floor dormers 45' from the ground in a home on a very sloped lot. The client does not want to climb a ladder that big and doesn't want to hire some one each season either. The bottom pane must be removable to the inside. They will replace a very unsightly combination of plexiglas arch and rectangular triple track aluminum storm. I considered making wooden frames for the glass, but there were concerns that this would make glass replacement very challenging should a pane break, which is always a real possibility.

The top pane will be glazed traditional, the bottom removable. The client wants limited sight lines from the inside. On the first set I isolated the aluminum from the wood with an EDPM rubber D bulb gasket on the out side, and rubber core polyester brush gasket to the inside, so wood won't touch metal. It is in my understanding the 5" air space between the storm and prime sash which creates the R value. I agree that aluminum makes a terrible material for a prime sash but feel it is appropriate for this application.

[Alan Turner]

Keep us posted on the slot mortiser. We have an old Griggio and love it, but the price point is over the top, and used ones are pretty rare. I understand that Laguna is just a rebrander/reseller. Does that appear to be the case?

This will be a good thread. Exterior millwork is challenging.

[Peter Quinn]

Alan, Laguna has two slot mortisers on offer presently, the european Laguna line, which I'm pretty sure is a Griggio, which has a stationary table, the head moves and tilts, its around $4000. I think its Griggio's entry level model, seems they make heavier duty models also. I bought the Laguna Platinum slot mortiser, made in China, seems to be a Rojek by design. The connection between the post that holds the head and the base is so weak the whole table moves around like a tall flag pole in a stiff breeze. Unacceptable as built.

I spent this afternoon fabricating a yoke to connect the top of the post to the 12" thick concrete wall in my shop using 3/8" angle iron. I'm thinking 20 tons of concrete and 100# of steel should stabilize that machine just fine. I should be able to make the final connections tomorrow and see how it works.

[Peter Quinn]

Brief delay of game on the windows. My son has developed a fever due to a double ear infection from a weekend at the lake which puts me out of the shop until he is well, could be several days, then its the Fourth. Not the way I planned it. For now everything is wrapped tightly in cellophane.

Final milling happened yesterday and while there was a bit of moderate movement on the 50" styles this batch of African mahogany has proven to be very stable. Most parts flattened last week from heavy 6/4 to 1 3/16" were still flat enough to work. The half round arch top will be constructed using two segments joined with a pegged bridal joint (or that's the name by which I know it). All parts are milled to 1.125" , the segments have been mitered to 45 degrees and been dadoed to accept a spline..that's where it stopped due to my son's health. Next pic's should be of the segments glued and clamped.

Stay tuned and stay well. MPQ

[Peter Quinn]

Peter -- I am very interested in this topic.

A home I own is constructed with gothic double hung windows set into stone walls. The windows date to the 1870's - surprisingly the frames are in unbelievable shape but the sashes are a mess. Most are about five foot high. Unfortunately, I have two that are over eleven feet tall -- actually three panes.

I wanted to have new sashes made but have run into problems -- I am curious how these are constructed and installed.

Tom, Those are some big windows! I am more at the journeyman level than expert when it comes to sash construction, or most woodworking for that matter. I hope this post is informative in some small way for a few.

For an excellent and serious primer on arched and curved construction, check out 'Circular Work in Carpentry and Joinery by George Collings" available from Linden Publishing in reprint (got my copy at woodcraft or Amazon, can't remember which?). Originally published in 1886, it covers the mathematical theory and woodworking technique required to draw and build non linear millwork. It was written to provide skilled craftsmen and journeymen an entry to the more complicated world of curved work. Worth a look IMHO.

[Warren Clemans]

Thanks for the thread--very interesting. What do you plan to use for glass? Does it need to be tempered?

[Peter Quinn]

The glass will be standard 1/16" glass. Tempered is code in my area only if the sill to finished floor height is below. 24" I think? I forget exactly, but these windows have a sill height above code minimum so the client has opted to forgo that expense, which would nearly have doubled the cost of an already expensive window. The storms fall technically under the fixed sash category, though I feel the convertible aspect enters a gray area possibly not covered by the code?

I am a decent with glazing putty but a license is required to set glass commercially in my state so all glass will be installed by a good local glazier. We discussed the tempered glass option, he felt it added very marginal safety or strength in this case and would not prevent major breakage such as a baseball or tree limb. The storms will be delivered without glass installed for fitting to the existing opening by another contractor who is restoring the exterior millwork. Later they will be hung with stainless hangers and marine grade brass fasteners.

[Warren Clemans]

Thanks for the reply--very interesting.

[Neal Clayton]

I am a decent with glazing putty but a license is required to set glass commercially in my state so all glass will be installed by a good local glazier.

never heard of that, is it a historical preservation thing or does it apply to eveyrone?

[Peter Quinn]

I'm in CT, and as I understand it if your setting glass for money you need a glaziers license which requires a test and a fee. For restoration or basic repair of old sash I think the basic remodelers license covers it, not sure why? i think it has to do with new work versus old work. There is a fair amount of potential liability in hanging glass 50' in the air, so I see the practicality and public safety reasons for regulating it.

In my particular town you also need a building permit to replace a window, largely so they can charge you for the upgrade, as the cost of the permit is based on the value of the window being installed. That's more of a tax racket than a safety issue as they do not typically inspect the work!

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Already I know this thread will hold my interest.

<bookmark>

As for the mortiser:
I believe the Laguna has gibs which you can adjust along the sides of the cast iron ways.
There should be a row of little screws which you need to tension just so to achieve the most even and smooth movement while eliminating play and wobble.

[julie Graf]

i am very interested in this topic also.

my home (an old church) has 14 old arched top 10 foot high windows that are in bad need or repair. thank goodness we have a wood stove and can fire it up to fight the drafts in the winter, but they need replacing at some point. some are covered with plexiglass!!! (the church took the stained glass windows with them...

[Peter Quinn]

I spent some time on July 4th preparing the assemblies for the arch tops. I have chosen to use a 2 segment arch joined at the center with a bridal joint, essentially two open mortises joined with a long grain spline, which will be pegged for a bit of added insurance. I should note that this is not the strongest way to construct arched tops, nor is it generally considered acceptable for a 'moving' sash like a casement or double hung. It is IMHO sufficient for these storms which will rarely if ever be removed over their service life. As cost of production was a serious design consideration I decided it was the best compromise of quality and efficiency. If you are making a double or triple hung please don't use this joint.

The first picks show the table saw set up for the open mortise. I center the mortises by running each piece over the TS blade from each side and cleaning up the waste with a third cut. I have a tall (5") fence on the saw and a sharp ATB-R blade for a square bottom cut. OSHA would not approve of this jig-less set up nor I'm sure would many conservative craftsmen, but I'm comfortable doing it this way and very careful about which direction my hands are applying pressure (not toward the blade!) This is not the safest way to work but it is by far the fastest and my results were good.

The segments are mitered to 45 degrees creating a center line joint long enough to accommodate the 24" inside/28" outside radius. I started this project with a full size drawing on 1/4" MDF and a trammel cut template for the arch, neither of which render well in the photos I have taken but both of which are a constant reference through out this process.

The next photos show the basic glue up, note the bird's mouth cuts to facilitate clamping. The splines were re-sawn from scrap and drum sanded to fit the slots precisely. I am using PL glue which requires good clamping pressure and a NICE TIGHT FIT to be effective. Note the cauls are covered in waxed packing tape, as I had glued them to the prototype which was no pleasure to remedy!

Next stop, set up the BS and make some arches!

[Neal Clayton]

i am very interested in this topic also.

my home (an old church) has 14 old arched top 10 foot high windows that are in bad need or repair. thank goodness we have a wood stove and can fire it up to fight the drafts in the winter, but they need replacing at some point. some are covered with plexiglass!!! (the church took the stained glass windows with them...

julie, there's a great site with info on window repair called historic homeworks, the guy also has lots of free videos on the site that you can view from previous online Q and As he's done about repairing, reglazing, and general restoring of old windows.

there are also a few books with a lot of info, "repairing old and historic windows" by the new york landmarks conservancy comes to mind.

you'd be surprised at what can be saved. there epoxies that can stabilize wood that's completely rotten if necessary.

there's an entire market of stuff that's made for situations just like yours, since centuries-old churches especially have elaborate custom windows which simply can't be replaced.

[Peter Quinn]

Already I know this thread will hold my interest.

<bookmark>

As for the mortiser:
I believe the Laguna has gibs which you can adjust along the sides of the cast iron ways.
There should be a row of little screws which you need to tension just so to achieve the most even and smooth movement while eliminating play and wobble.

Cliff, up and down works well on mine, but lateral movement is hindered by the bent rails that came with the machine. It doesn't move on roller bearings, but some odd sort of compression strap with set screws and lock nuts for adjustment. The front to back rails move very smoothly (not bent).

THe European model (Griggio) moves the head on X-rollers like Felder uses which seems to be a better long term plan. I guess for $1000 I'm happy the Platinum works as well as it does. I'm pretty sure the Platinum mortiser was engineered in the accounting office.

[Peter Quinn]

julie, there's a great site with info on window repair called historic homeworks, the guy also has lots of free videos on the site that you can view from previous online Q and As he's done about repairing, reglazing, and general restoring of old windows.

there are also a few books with a lot of info, "repairing old and historic windows" by the new york landmarks conservancy comes to mind.

you'd be surprised at what can be saved. there epoxies that can stabilize wood that's completely rotten if necessary.

there's an entire market of stuff that's made for situations just like yours, since centuries-old churches especially have elaborate custom windows which simply can't be replaced.

I second Neal's advice. Save everything possible. There are lots of great products at your disposal and plenty of knowledge base for full restoration. Plus that old wood was of very high quality to begin with. I will be restoring two circular sashes and several slightly damaged prime sashes in the context of this job. Its rare a sash can't be restored until it actually falls off the building on its own!

[Peter Quinn]

Today I finished the arch assemblies. First I traced the pattern on the blanks making careful registration marks to help align things later. I cut the arches on the 14" BS with the aid of an extended table I made, used a 1/2" X 3TH timberwolf blade which makes a smooth cut and lets me get real close to the line.

I'm using the router table for these because the work is thin enough and the set up is quick. Some may wonder why not use the shaper seen in some of the picks? Well for three 1 1/8" storms with a lot of stop cuts and possible climb cuts I think its just quicker and safer on the router table. If these were full thickness windows I'd do most of it on the shaper.

Once the blanks are cut into arches i use turners tape to affix the template to the work..very strong bond and quick too. I'm using an 1 1/2" pattern makers bit, with a starting pin for the inside radius and a convex starting board for the outside radius. You need to start and end these operations in a controlled manner. Normally I'd just make the template longer than the work but for a half circle that doesn't work so well. Flush trim, sand the inside radius with a flexible strip and profile. I'm using amana sash bits. They stack like mini shaper cutters and allow you to make lots of different thickness of sash. You can also get a stub cope cutter for true mortise and tenons which is nice but won't be used here.

I milled the sticking profile to the arch without the glass rabbit. The 'convertible' bottom pane complicates things considerably so I'll just rabbit for glass at the end. So far so good.

Here's a few more pics.

[Peter Quinn]

Spent the day working on a table for the slot mortiser a la Mark Singer, sorta tailored to fit my needs and machine. Still no rails from Laguna to fix the new machine. They claim they sent them fed ex, though they can provide no tracking numbers, and I've never heard of "two week" delivery option from fed ex?

No pics of the mortiser table, because mine is not too pretty! Seems to work well enough though. Next step....mortise mania!

[Tom Godley]

Thanks for the updates -- not sure if I will ever be able to make one. Maybe a screen :)

[Peter Quinn]

Time to set up for some slot mortises. It's critical that the cutter is centered in the work on any horizontal boring machine. If the cutter is not centered then you must reference all cuts from the same face, which I do with a plunge router and jig but would be most inconvenient given the nature of the repeatable stops on the slot mortiser table. I must be able to to mill each slot accurately using a single stop set up for styles which are a mirror image of each other and into the end grain of bottom and mid rails which will run perpendicular to the fence. For speed and accuracy I must be able to mill my slots referencing either face of a work piece, and that means the cutter must be dead on center.

I'm not a big gadget guy when it comes to set ups, but I use a dial indicator for precise height adjustments to shapers and line borers when ever possible. I started the centering process by eyeballing the center of a test piece milled with my stock for just this purpose. I always mill a handful of set up pieces for machine joinery. I run a test cut and measure the distance from the face of the board from each side to the inside wall of the mortise on each side using calipers. My eyeball setup errs on the low side of center as I always want to RAISE the machine up to the final setting to cancel any slop in the mechanism. This is good practice for any machine setting as they all seem to develop a bit of slop eventually and locking knobs can't be trusted 100%. Make gravity is your friend.

In my case I had .370" on one side and .335" on the other. I divide this difference by two, and adjusted the cutter head up by .0175" using a dial indicator (with a pad foot) clamped to the table. You can do this by eye using the hunt and peck method and lots of test pieces, but I like to get there quickly and accurately. Another test cut or two indicates a perfect set up.

Here's a pic of the set up.

[Peter Quinn]

So I milled all the slots needed today with the slot mortiser...and...that took about 30 minutes to do what took me 1 1/2 days last time with the plunge router. I'm sold. I have officially milled my last mortise with a router. I hope.

Heck, I had time for lunch today! No time for pics this afternoon but I'll take some picks in the morning of my high tech coping setup (piece of MDF with a backer board screwed to the front, works as well as a $125 jig). I decided to go with intregal tenons for the bottom rails and round over the shoulders. Does anybody know where I put those riffler files, cause I can't find em!:D

I could square up the mortises with a chisel I guess. I could also set up that DP mortiser, but thats like doing my own tooth extraction with out the help of anesthesia.

[Warren Clemans]

Excellent stuff--keep it coming! Thanks for taking the time to post your progress.

[Peter Quinn]

I had forgotten how much hand work was involved in the mid rail joint for these storms. The top half of the sash gets a 1/4" X 3/8" rabbit for glass to the outside, the bottom of the sash gets a 1" X 3/4" rabbit to the inside to hold the aluminum screen and storm panels. Both are stopped cuts on parts that are mirror images of each other, thus requiring two separate set ups to complete. Where the glass rabbit stops it forms a shoulder to support the mid rail and top pane of glass. The mid rail is joined with a dowel reinforced cope and stick joint, there is no room for a tenon. There is a groove centered in the bottom edge of the mid rail to hold the bottom panel in place when the thin wooden frame which will hide the aluminum is removed for seasonal change from glass to screen.

All this means there is a fair chunk of material in a rather delicate area between the two stopped rabbits on opposite faces which must be removed rather gingerly with a chisel mortiser and hand chisels. I wound up setting up the DP mortiser, which works well enough for these small cuts, to hog out the majority of the material, then pared everything clean by hand. All thats left is to cut tennons in the bottom rails, which involve off set shoulders. These will be integral tennons as its nearly as easy as creating a slot and offers the ultimate in strength at a critical joint.

I have a pic of my high tech coping sled....uhh...ok not so high tech. Those $100+ jobbies in the catalogues make me smile. This setup suit my needs for the router, though I have a much better shop made unit for the shaper. Speaking of shaper, I used a flea market find for the first time on this job. This spring I found an adjustable carbide insert grooving cutter for $40 (after haggling) at a blade vendor's stall in my local Sunday flea market. Brand new. Perfect carbide! Looked like it had never been spun. These things sell for for $650. I don't know why this low quality blade vendor had this thing on his table, but I bought it and ran like heck. Last round of windows I made a tricky series of TS cuts to achieve the mid rail grooves mentioned above, my hair standing on end the whole time, because my standard 3 wing shaper groover was tearing out the edge grain something fierce. This groover has shear teeth top and bottom, and the main cutters are set at a shear angle as well. I have never seen a smoother cleaner cut in my life.

So if you have $650 you don't know what to do with I highly recommend getting one!:D (there is a belated gloat in here somewhere.)

Here's a few more pics.

[Peter Quinn]

One more pic, starting to take shape.

[Charles Wilson]

Peter and others,

I have about 30 wooden storms to make. As far as I can tell, I the original wood is about an 1-1/8" thick (this way they sit flush in the window). I was looking at Amana and Whiteside bits.

Will these Whiteside bits be able to do the profile at 1-1/8" (as the windows will also be held together by loose tenons)?

Chuck

[Peter Quinn]

I've looked at the Whiteside sash bits but not closely enough to answer your question. I know for certain that the Amana bits will make 1 1/8" storms as I am presently doing just that and have done it in the past. 1 1/8" is a standard thickness for wooden storms in my experience.

The Amana bits stack like a mini shaper arbor and have allowed me to configure them a few different ways to suit my methods. I really enjoy using them. Their cabinet door bits are also excellent.