I want to sand like Raffan...

[Fred Oliver]

...just a few seconds each with a couple of grits, and ZIP! ZAP! ZOOM! He's done sanding.

Sometimes I spend more time with the sandpaper than with the gouges. (Or does it just seem that way?)

Raffan's been turning for 20 years, not 20 weeks, and that's a huge factor. I'm sure I'll be able to sand less when I get better at the grinder, keep my tools sharper, get better at using the gouges and scrapers.

Here's what I've gathered from this forum:

Get a fresh grind (or at least hone the edge) on the tool before the final finish cuts.

Make those finish cuts very, very light, and use a shear cut whenever possible. (Does tilting the scraper for a "shear scrape" seem to make much of a difference?)

Increase the lathe speed and slow the advancement of the tool. (Somewhat problematic turning unseasoned cherry, which has usually begun to distort/warp by the time it's been hollowed.)

I still have frequent problems with rough end grain on the inner walls, which requires a LOT of sanding.

What else should I be doing to resolve that?

Thanks for your thoughts,

Fred

[Paul Heely]

I'm taking a hands on class with Raffan tomorrow and will ask him what is secret is.....

A fresh edge definitely helps.

I use a shear scraper on the outside of bowls and hollow forms and I get a different surface vs using a normal scraper in the flat position. I did a maple piece over the weekend, shear scraped the outside and will be able to start sanding at 220.

If the cherry is drying too fast try misting it with water to keep it wet until you are done. I've read about people doing this but never tried it myself.

On the inside how are you doing your finishing cuts? Traditional grind bowl gouge or swept back grind Ellsworth style? With the swept back you can do a finishing cut with the flute straight up and use the left side of the tip to get a nice smooth cut.

Hope that helps some.

--
Paul

[Richard Madison]

Paul's misting suggestion is a good one, especially for oak, which will sometimes crack as you stand there looking at it. When stopping for coffee or lunch, you can mist the piece (or wipe with a wet sponge) and tie a plastic bag around it. Be sure to protect the lathe bed.

[Reed Gray]

Shear cuts are different on the outside of the bowl than on the inside. Mostly it is because when you turn the outside, it stays stable, and doesn't move. When you start on the inside, as soon as you remove the mass, it begins to move. Some of this is because you are relieving some of the internal stresses on the wood. Some is because of the difference in how end grain and side grain cut, and because if the wood is green, they dry at slightly different rates. jAlso, because the walls are thinner, the wood will start to flex as you apply pressure. Most of the time, you can dampen this flexing by using your other hand to apply light pressure to the outside of the bowl. You can also use a steady rest. If you apply too much pressure, you can cause the wood to flex the other way (like a soap bubble). The solution is to take the inside to finish cuts in steps. On a 6 inch bowl, there is little movement, on a 14 inch bowl, there can be a lot of movement (1/16 to 1/8 which is a lot if you are turning at 1000rpm). So, remove 90% of the mass near the rim, and maybe 75 % down towards the bottom. Then take the top 1 to 2 inches down to final thickness, and do your finish shear cuts on that part. Then use the same clean up method all the way down to the bottom.

For the bottom of the bowls, a flat held scraper does a fair job with little tear out or lifting of the grain. As you get away from the center and up the sides switch to a shear cut (45 degrees). You want only the finest of shavings. These are not for stock removal, and you will have to take several passes to clean up the smallest of ripples.The shear cut does a better job of slicing the fibers clean.

robo hippy

[Curt Fuller]

I'm sure I haven't seen anywhere near all of Raffan's videos but those that I have watched are usually turning spindles and boxes that are working with the grain parallel to the lathe bed. With sharp tools you don't need to sand much with that type turning. But turning across grain will almost always cause a little tearout, even with sharp tools and sharper skills. Sand with coarse grit, 60 or 80, until the tearout is gone. Then working through the grits should only take a little work at each grit.

[Burt Alcantara]

I must be weird. I don't mind sanding at all. I use a close quarter drill, a hand pad or paper held in my fingers. What ever it takes

To me, it's all about the results - getting a smooth, clear, even finish.

Burt

[Ron Jones near Indy]

I'll bet that sanding like Raffan means that you have to sharpen your turning tools like Raffan.

[Richard Madison]

Good point by Curt about cross grain turnings. About 75-80% of the total sanding is with 80, 100, 120. Once the tearout, tool marks, little hills and valleys are gone, it is just a matter of moments with each of the next grits. When you see sanding scratches, it may be necessary to back up two grits. Sometimes alternating between power and hand sanding is useful. And one hates to use those expensive discs where hand sanding w/ less expensive material will do the job.

[Reed Gray]

Excellent comment from Ron. The tools do have to be sharp. As far as the removing little hills and valleys, and tool marks that is where the shear scraping comes in. It takes a long time to remove 80 grit scratches, whether you use 100 or 120 grit. I used to have to start at 80, now, most of the time it is 120 or higher. I swear that the tinyest marks grow from green to dry.
robo hippy

[Bernie Weishapl]

When I talked with Richard at the symposium he told me the key is properly sharpened tools. He said the last cuts are light and shear cuts. He made some cuts that the wood just came off like fine angel hair. He told me if he had more time he would have brought us up and showed the cuts up close. He is a great gentleman.

[Paul Heely]

I spent the day with Richard yesterday. I can confirm that his "secret" to being able to sand so little is sharp tools and his ability to use the tools. He would almost always pull out a diamond hone and just touch up the edge before making the final cuts on whatever he was showing us how to do.

--
Paul

[Jim Underwood]

So I suppose I would revise your original statement...

"I want to turn like Raffan..."

;)