Washer and dryer platform suggestions needed

[Wes Billups]

Mod’s: If this should go in another forum please feel free to move as you see fit.

A few months ago my wife and I replaced our 15 yr old washer and dryer. We went with the front load washer and have been having vibration issues since. During the spin cycle it shakes the floors in the adjoining. The final straw was when the toilet in the room next door began leaking and when I fixed it I realized the wax ring had failed which I’m attributing to the shaking.

The units are currently stacked which I’ll be changing per the suggestion of the GE service technician. When I do this I want to build a platform to set them both on rather than spend the $400 GE wants for their platforms.

When I mentioned building the platform to the GE technician he stated you can’t make them out of wood because it will eventually fail due to the shaking. I come from the school of thought that anything can be built to last. My plan is to build a 2x4 frame with half lap joints which will be glued and screwed, then skin the whole stand with 3/4” cabinet grade plywood. This stand will sit on rubber feet and the washer and dryer will be bolted to the top.

Does this sound sufficient to those with more experience? I’m also wondering if everyone thinks I’m wasting my time. The goal is to isolate the washer from the floor as much as possible.

Thanks,
Wes

P.S. We’re a family of five so moving the washer to the basement isn’t an option.

[Lee DeRaud]

When I mentioned building the platform to the GE technician he stated you can’t make them out of wood because it will eventually fail due to the shaking.My two reactions to his statement:
1. What the heck does he think your house is built out of?
2. If it's shaking that much, I think I'd be discussing "refund" with the GE folks.

[Bob Rufener]

Wes,

If it shakes that badly that you can't use a platform of wood, somethings wrong with their machine. 2 x 4 or 2 x 6 lumber should be very adequate and surfacing it with 3/4" plywood should be very adequate. Screws rather than nails should work very well.

[Ray Phillips]

I built a very simple platform for my washer and dryer. I used 2X12X1 solid pine reinforced in the corners by 2X4's. I covered the top with the same 2X12X1. I did not put a drawer in the platform because I raised the washer and dryer up so My wife or myself would not have to bend down to do the the laundry. I did not bolt my units to the platform. I did use a forstner bit and drilled a 1/4 inch recessed whole so the rubber feet on the units would set down in them. This keeps the units from crawing on the platform. They have worked very well for me. I would agree with other coments that your units seem to have more vibration than should be expected. If it vibrates the toilet enough to have to replace the gasket you might want to put a warning sign on your toilet DO NOT USE WHILE WASHING MACHINE IS IN USE.

[Tom Hargrove]

We have a stacked laundry set in a closet off the kitchen (basic Frigidaire units), adjacent to a bath. The only time we get signficant vibration is when a load of jeans is being run, and that seems to be momentary during the run up or run down of the spin cycle. Most of the time, I don't even know they are running.

I agree with Bob's comment: if the vibration is bad enought to cause the wax ring to fail, something must be wrong with the machine. I would consider asking for a refund, or a significant credit from the dealer toward machines that don't vibrate as badly.

Framing lumber and plywood should be fine. If you are concerned about the strength, you can use an adhesive at all the connections.

[Mike DeHart]

Wes,
My mother had a stackable washer/dryer years ago that vibrated badly. The solution was to remove some shipping tie downs that the installer forgot to remove. You might want to take a look at the owners manual and see if your machine has any and that they are not there anymore. I think they tied the tub support to the frame of the machine to keep the tub from moving freely during shipment. Once the bolts were removed the tub support moved to absorb the vibrations like it was supposed to.

Mike

[Jim Becker]

1) Yes you can build them out of wood and they will last just fine if you design things to handle the load.

2) Excessive vibration shouldn't be happening. There has only one load in our new LG SteamWasher that I can recall having more than acceptable vibration and that was when an already wet towel got stuck accidentally during the initial load balancing spins. Our unit also has a setting to reduce this kind of issue, too. If your washer was installed by the "pros" when you bought it, they may not have done some of the setup steps that hopefully keep vibration and balance issues to a minimum. Front loaders need a little more care in that respect to the best of my knowledge.

We do have the LG platforms because we wanted the storage and the matching cherry red color. But that meant building a short wood platform to raise them so that the drawer would clear the leak pan under the washer. It's just 3/4" plywood with a 3/4" plywood frame and intermediate supports. You can see the setup in the attached. Note that under the washer, the metal pan is painted black and there are 3" side strips built up to raise the washer to 2" above the floor. The corresponding wood platform under the dryer raises it accordingly.

91019

[Ben Cadotte]

I have an LG unit and when doing heavy cottons it vibrates bad initially. I did the install myself. Leveling front to back and corners to corners. Dead level. Checked it again after it vibrated. And yes the shipping bolts were removed before I slid it in. It only occurs with real heavy loads of cottons. And only during the beginning of the last spin.

I attribute part of it to the floor joists. They are near max span limits for their size. So the floor has a little give to it. I am not too worried about it. Eventually we are going to move the laundry area upstairs. And when I do, I will have the opportunity to install a better floor structure for the laundry (currently on 1st floor).

[Wes Billups]

Thanks to everyone who has responded.

The units were installed professionally and I've checked against the manual. It looks like they did everything correctly, removed shipping bolts and leveled front-to-back and side-to-side.

There are a couple of issues that I didn’t mention. I know our floor structure isn’t the best as the floor trusses are 24” on center. The other item is the units are currently stacked against the right hand side of the room which puts the washer door swinging the wrong direction and it isn’t interchangeable like the dryer. My hopes are the platform would help correct these two issues. The platform should help bridge the wide joist spans to better distribute the weight. In unstacking them it will also move the washer door to make access better.

If this doesn’t work I have every intention of raising a stink with GE.

Thanks,
Wes

[Jeff Monson]

Wes, I purchased front loaders last spring and didnt want to spend the extra money for the bases so I built my own, I used 3/4" melamine and used my domino to for the joinery, I also reinforced the platform with 2x4's running the width and 1 centered with 2x4 uprights. I then installed 6 leveler legs and banded the exposed edges. The unit is pretty heavy but it works great, I leveled the platform to the floor and then the 2 units to the platform and have no vibration. The unit looks good and functions very nice. I know I spent less than 80 dollars in materials.

[Chris Weishaar]

Hello Wes,

I think that the platform will certainly help, but I am not sure by how much. Stretching the load out over 2 trusses may not reduce vibration that much. Trying to isolate and absord the vibration will help. I agree with others that if there is a lot of vibration in the machine, then something may be wrong. However if your floor is natually "bouncy" then certainly the normal vibration of the washer can cause problems.

My washer and dryer are in the basement so looks were not important. I had planned to build a nice platform but the delivery guys showed up a couple of days early! While they were unloading I took some 2x12 scaps and a piece of plywood and slapped together a platform. I just used a framing nailer and adhesive and it took about 15 minutes. It has probably been 7 years and everything is holding up fine, no major vibrations and both the washer and dryer (side by side) stay put. I have never had one attempt to walk off the platform.

Chris

[Tim Sgrazzutti]

For washing machines, especially front loaders, level is defined by having 25% of the weight on each foot, and may not necesarilly agree with the tool by the same name. I got the best adjustment on mine by fine tuning the front feet to achieve the least vibration while it was on the high speed spin cycle, with a reasonable load in it. Mine are stacked, and the vibration is at an acceptable level (pun intended) when the feet are properly adjusted. If they're not, it'll dance across the floor.

[David DeCristoforo]

"If it vibrates the toilet enough to have to replace the gasket you might want to put a warning sign on your toilet DO NOT USE WHILE WASHING MACHINE IS IN USE."

Good idea, But I would put the sign on the washing machine: "DO NOT USE WHILE TOILET IS IN USE"

[Steve Flavin001]

in the extra super spin cycle, but short of that these babies just hummmm. I would suggest you be sure you have exhausted the installation issues with GE - our vibration is negligible (potty and all :D ).

I'm sure you checked the prices, but in any event I thought the color matching and all that and proper installation were well worth the manuf. base. to me.

But the basic concern in my mind is that your amount of vibration is abnormal.

[Bryan Parlor]

Mod’s: If this should go in another forum please feel free to move as you see fit.


We have a laundry room on the second floor and our front loader vibrates badly with some loads. The washer is balanced if the contents are balanced but wet towels can line up in the tub any fashion, sometimes making the tub unbalanced. When this happens some of the cupboard doors rattle on the 3rd floor.

I fitted a set of rubber isolators in place of the feet and this helped a lot. The washer sometimes thrashes around quite a bit though and you need to make sure to have an inch or so of clearance each side of it.

The rubber isolators are 1 1/2 in long and 1 3/8 in dia. They have a threaded rod about 1in long at one end which screws in place of the adjustable feet. I bought them a few years ago in Princess Auto in Ottawa but have not seen them in the store since.

I read a discussion about this problem and it seems that North American the washers and dryers are designed assuming they will be on a concrete pad in the basement rather than on an upper floor. I wonder if a European washer might do better since basements are unusual over there.



Bryan

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

The final straw was when the toilet in the room next door began leaking and when I fixed it I realized the wax ring had failed That really cracked me up. I can't imagine how badly that thing must be vibrating~!!

I am guessing the advice about looking for a tie down inside is prolly correct.

[Joel Goodman]

I have a washer and dryer on a platform in my basement. I built the platform about a foot high as the drain for the washer is higher than the floor by more than the manufacturer recomends. It was built about 25 years ago out of some leftover 2X 10s - using them for the top as well as the supports -- just nailed together. Took about an hour to build. If you use ply for the top I'd double it up for 1 1/2 total thickness -- if vibration is an issue that will help. I did add a small 5/4s X 4 strip around the edge as I was worried than an out of balance load might cause the washer to walk off the platform. No issues, just build it solid and it will help dampen the vibration. It's also pleasant not to stoop. If it was upstairs I would of course finish it off properly.

[Jamie Cowan]

Two weeks ago I was talking to a long-time family friend who worked as an engineer for GE for years. Still has friends there, and says that GE is planning to jump out of home appliances all together. GE is soon going to be a company that doesn't actually manufacture anything. That said, I don't want to be one of the last people to buy one of the last washers that rolls off the line. Did that with a Packard Bell computer before they went out of business, but of course I had no idea they were closing down. That computer never worked right from day one. After PB closed, they didn't honor their warranty. They didn't even have a customer service line after closing. I expect the same will be true of GE. Buyer beware.

[Chris Weishaar]

There may be another solution to the problem. In a follow up post you mentioned that the structure was trusses at 24"o.c., but you also refered to them as joists. If they are indeed trusses are they open from below or can you get access to them from below? The reason that I ask is that wood floor trusses can be notoriously bouncy. By adding some gusset plates below the washer it make help to not tranmit the vibrations.

The great advantage to trusses is the lower costs due to the fact that all extra wood has been engineered out. They technically support the code required loads but I know of instances where just normal traffic on truss floors have destroyed tile floors. I have one engineer that I use for all of my designs and he always asks the owners how much bounce they are willing to tolerate in floors. If he designs just to the code, there may be bounce that is noticable to certain people. For a really solid floor you typically have to design for higher than code levels.

Chris

[Wes Billups]

Chris, the joists are indeed trusses. I’ve thought about adding a plywood plate on either side of the truss to create a box beam. The issue is all the plumbing for the laundry and bathroom run through the joists in question. I have no idea on how to reinforce these with all the piping in the way. These pipes are also preventing me from adding another joist between the two.

Thanks,
Wes

[Craig Mitchell]

If the issue is vibration.... what you really want to do is "de-couple" the platform you build from the floor. Go ahead and build your platform, but get some 2 inch thick neoprene rubber mats and have the platform sit on that.

That should help dramatically reduce the vibration transfer from the washer to the rest of the house.

You could also use rubber disks as opposed to a mat, just make the whatever you use is sturdy enough to hold the platform but pliable enough to absorb vibration. Hope this helps.

[Chris Weishaar]

Chris, the joists are indeed trusses. I’ve thought about adding a plywood plate on either side of the truss to create a box beam. The issue is all the plumbing for the laundry and bathroom run through the joists in question. I have no idea on how to reinforce these with all the piping in the way. These pipes are also preventing me from adding another joist between the two.

Thanks,
Wes

Sounds like I would try to absorb the vibration first, stiffing the trusses will probably be a bit of work. It doesn't have to be solid plywood along each side of the beam, placed properly strapping or triangle shapes of plywood attached in the right places can accomplish the task. Hard to say without seeing the actual conditions. It is probably easier and cheaper to do the platform than work on the trusses. I would only do the trusses if there are other issues with the floor than just the washer. I would incorporate some of the vibration dampening techniques mentioned. Just building a platform won't solve the vibration issue, you need to absorb the energy before it can be transmitted to the floor.

Chris

[Leo Montreuil]

I know it is too late, but there are front load washer that are designed with a suspension that is better for second floor installation or weak floor. This is a quote from Whirlpool Duet Sport:

"Innovative Suspension System

An innovative suspension system features 'shock absorbers' that cushion the motion of the tub and inner drum, reducing vibration and noise so that an upper floor installation is possible."

from: http://www.whirlpool.com/catalog/product.jsp?src=WASHERS&cat=115&prod=1063

A heavy platform (you can pour concrete on the platform) that is decoupled from the floor by a resilient material may help.

see: http://www.kineticsnoise.com/

[Peter Quinn]

I recently bought an LG front loader and its very quiet with barely any vibration. I was amazed. I can't imagine how a tech could suggest that a riser could not be made of wood, unless the particular model they sold you was only intended to reside in that stone and brick home the third little pig made? How disappointed the big bad wolf will be when he comes to huff and puff and realizes the washer has blown down the house for him.

My grandfather (former professional plumber) used to fabricate concrete 'pans' which involved a 2"-3" pad with a lip around them and a drain for second floor installations to reduce vibration and risk of flooding. I'd guess the shower pan approach might not be necessary with todays braided stainless hoses, but some concrete under rubber isolation mounts might go a long way towards absorbing/reducing vibration if stiffening the trusses doesn't help.

My washer sits in a basement on a 5" thick slab on grade, no vibration and the toilet next to it does not leak, though a bit of vibrating message might be nice at the end of a long day! Perhaps that could be a selling feature some day if you decide to sell the house?

[Bond Turner]

Just my $.02, but we installed the same configuration, though it is a Maytag set stacked. I designed and built an inertia base which is made out of concrete between two trusses (Upper level) with a sheet of 3/4 ply on top for uniformity. The inertia base is suspended on 4- 2.0" springs made by Mason. I sized the springs for the weight of the washer and dryer as well as the weight of the concrete inertia base. This totally isolates the machines from the structure and adds significant mass to reduce vibration transmission. My Wife thinks I am nuts. You might ask why go to so much trouble...well the laundry room sits adjacent to my "Man room" where I have my home theater and music setup, so I wanted no vibration, i.e. noise coming from those things. With three kids we are always running a load.

I have had no problems with vibration, though I do get some noise when the washer spins out, but very minimal.

[Jerry Olexa]

IMHO, that is simply too much vibration. I'd go back to the dealer with a polite but firm request for correction. That is really their responsibility on a new unit methinks.

[Gregory Chang]

I then installed 6 leveler legs and banded the exposed edges. The unit is pretty heavy but it works great, I leveled the platform to the floor and then the 2 units to the platform and have no vibration. The unit looks good and functions very nice. I know I spent less than 80 dollars in materials.

Is there a picture of a leveler leg somewhere you used?

thanks,

Greg

[Erik Stol]

Hi Wes,

Due to my proffession as construction manager, i did encounter simalar problems when installing a heavy duty airsupllier on top of the roof of a penthouse. We got rid of the vibration problem by placing it on industrial vibration mats made of a type of rubber. Such a solution will also work for your washing machine. Smaller types are available at specialized indusrial workshops.

Erik

[Jason White]

My front loaders are in the basement and "were" sitting on concrete. I just built a 2x10 frame with 3/4 CDX plywood on top. Used some shingles and glue underneath to get everything level. I basically built a nice, heavy subfloor.

Not the prettiest thing in the world, but it has worked about great!

Jason


Mod’s: If this should go in another forum please feel free to move as you see fit.

A few months ago my wife and I replaced our 15 yr old washer and dryer. We went with the front load washer and have been having vibration issues since. During the spin cycle it shakes the floors in the adjoining. The final straw was when the toilet in the room next door began leaking and when I fixed it I realized the wax ring had failed which I’m attributing to the shaking.

The units are currently stacked which I’ll be changing per the suggestion of the GE service technician. When I do this I want to build a platform to set them both on rather than spend the $400 GE wants for their platforms.

When I mentioned building the platform to the GE technician he stated you can’t make them out of wood because it will eventually fail due to the shaking. I come from the school of thought that anything can be built to last. My plan is to build a 2x4 frame with half lap joints which will be glued and screwed, then skin the whole stand with 3/4” cabinet grade plywood. This stand will sit on rubber feet and the washer and dryer will be bolted to the top.

Does this sound sufficient to those with more experience? I’m also wondering if everyone thinks I’m wasting my time. The goal is to isolate the washer from the floor as much as possible.

Thanks,
Wes

P.S. We’re a family of five so moving the washer to the basement isn’t an option.

[Zach England]

Take washer and dryer back.

Use woodworking skills to construct wash board and clothes line.

Seek divorce lawyer.

[Scott T Smith]

A friend of mine owned laundromats and dry cleaning businesses for many years. Once, during a discussion with him about 20 years ago, he mentioned that front loading washing machines were much superior to top loaders due to the high G forces generated during the extraction phase. This in turn reduced the amount of drying times required.

The G-forces can be phenomenal. Speed-queen makes a front loading unit that generates 300G's during extraction!

In his laundromats, I used to assist him with fabricating heavy steel bases for the front loading washers. This was solely to distribute the vibrations caused by the G-forces across the floor.

I too have a front loader, in a 2 story house with a full basement. Occasionally I can feel vibration upstairs when the washing machine is in its spin cycle. My floor joists are 2 x 12's on 16' centers with blocking in-between them; however the washing machine is pretty much located in center span.

Adding a steel pipe below the floor joists, bolted into the basement slab and to the bottom of the joists solve my vibration problem.

I don't think that you have a defective washer - I think that your problem is the low capacity of your floor joists. If you can dampen the machine with the foam recommended by others, and also install some better supports or bracing for your floor, I believe that you can eliminate your problem.

[Bryan Parlor]

We have a laundry room on the second floor and our front loader vibrates badly with some loads. The washer is balanced if the contents are balanced but wet towels can line up in the tub any fashion, sometimes making the tub unbalanced. When this happens some of the cupboard doors rattle on the 3rd floor.

I fitted a set of rubber isolators in place of the feet and this helped a lot. The washer sometimes thrashes around quite a bit though and you need to make sure to have an inch or so of clearance each side of it.

The rubber isolators are 1 1/2 in long and 1 3/8 in dia. They have a threaded rod about 1in long at one end which screws in place of the adjustable feet. I bought them a few years ago in Princess Auto in Ottawa but have not seen them in the store since.

I read a discussion about this problem and it seems that North American the washers and dryers are designed assuming they will be on a concrete pad in the basement rather than on an upper floor. I wonder if a European washer might do better since basements are unusual over there.



Bryan

Follow up on the washer problem
This summer I removed the rubber feet and put a concrete patio slab under the washer - much better solution.

The floor under the washer is built to code and the washer is working correctly and leveled. If there had have been a supporting wall directly underneath the washer we may not have had a problem.

Bryan