This gripes me

[jack duren]

I build a lot of whole priced cabinets. Every once in awhile I hot lucky and get to build a nice bar or entertainment center. Work is slow over winter and I get to playing poker. Playing poker means you want a nice table and I join a poker building forum hoping to learn the ins and outs of the tables. I build a cheaper holdem table and a unique custom table. The cheaper table takes just a few day. The custom table a few months a few hours a week.


Long story short. I build a nice table and get criticized over the length of time and the fact that I havent sold it yet.

Why do people feel threatened by your ability to build something a bit nicer?

[Lee Koepke]

because we are in an instant gratification society? which also is disposable.

those two walmart traits dont fare well with the patience, skill, and willingness to 'create' a keepsake piece of whatever it is you make.

(my little rant. sorry:D)

[Frederick Wilt]

Why do people feel threatened by your ability to build something a bit nicer?

Perhaps because you were willing to expend the time and effort and they are not?

Similar perhaps, in some ways, to what we hear about in schools where the hardworking students are criticized by other students who chose not to exert themselves.

[Tom Veatch]

...Similar perhaps, in some ways, to what we hear about in schools where the hardworking students are criticized by other students who chose not to exert themselves.

Now, us hard-party'ers don't want them hard-workers to go busting the curve, now do we?:rolleyes:

I assume the schools still grade students and a significant number of teachers still grade on the curve - for whatever ill conceived (IMO) reason there might be.

[J. Z. Guest]

Who is criticizing?

[jack duren]

Those who make a living making the regular casino type tables...

[Rick Gifford]

Jack I am interested in the poker table build forum you found. Can you PM me the link?

Thanks~

[Mike Kenney]

The way I see it is the people over there are not criticizing your craftmanship as a matter of fact everyone thinks you have great skills. They just prefer to play on more traditional style tables.

[jack duren]

scottkeen.com

Table in question..

[Alan Huey]

That is beautiful!! Anyone to criticize that doesn't appreciate craftsmanship. Very nice!!

[jack duren]

Thx for the comment.

Nothing close to what this guy builds but is what inspired me. http://www.lackley.com/index.html

[Justin Leiwig]

I think that what you will find with that forum is that nice tables have been done before and everyone who has built one comes back complaining that they just don't sell.

You either need to have a well established client base already, or know where the deep pocketed poker players are.

There are guys on that forum who have built tables for all the big names in the WSOP tour, but you know what..they are like everyone else. They don't want the nice table you have for it's beauty. They want the functional table that they don't care if a beer gets spilled or the fabric gets worn out and needs replaced.

Your table is very nice for showing off your woodworking skills and I commend you on that. However for poker it won't work very well at all in my opinion. Now this...it's beautiful and functional, which is more the point I think they were trying to make over at SKPF.

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/9122/cigarbandtx9.jpg

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

scottkeen.com

Table in question..

Gorgeous table~!! Really sweet.
I'd think it'd make a great table for intimate play among friends.

A person who thinks they are a "high roller" and can spend more than a few grand on a playing table is likely to have enough ego to fill a truck. That ego will want a little more breathing room between the stations, more seats to show off their prowess, and will be looking to dedicate more real estate to spotlight the idea that they can spend oodles of $$ on a mere game.
Marketing marketing marketing.

Meanwhile, I really like the table.

[J. Z. Guest]

I see. Don't worry about what they think. If you're building them for customers, it matters more what THEY think.

If it is not selling, they have cast their vote, or you just haven't found the right customer.

Have you tried ebay? If I were in the market for a poker table and wanted something different from the norm, that would be the first place I'd look.

I think it is beautiful. The only real flaw I see is that maybe the cards would not be easy to pick up since it is a smooth, solid top with a rim.

[jack duren]

The table plays fine. It will have 3 inserts for regular,chips or cash games. I built it for fun. Ive had it on Craigslist trying to trade it. Actually I dont have room for it and started another yesturday.

I built a cheaper holdem table which a buddy bought. We either play it his house or mine every month. I make a living from cabinetry not table building. The table isnt an arena. It has a 48" piece of glass on top so you can display collectables underneath.

[Frank Drew]

Justin,

I don't play cards so I don't know about your criticism of Jack's table on functional grounds, but I think his is quite a bit better looking than that double pedestal model you posted. Taste is subjective, of course.

[Joe Jensen]

Justin,

I don't play cards so I don't know about your criticism of Jack's table on functional grounds, but I think his is quite a bit better looking than that double pedestal model you posted. Taste is subjective, of course.

I think the criticism came before the pic showing the playing surface was posted. I do agree with you that I prefer the original poster's table to the double pedestal.

[Mike Kenney]

Ok im a member to both forums. Let me say that it is not a Wood Working forum its a Poker Table Building forum.I have not replyed in the other forum to Jacks table. As for wood working and craftmanship Jacks table is top notch and onone there is saying anything diferent its just that the people over there are Poker Players and they have there prefrences of the fuctionality of a table.


Also the way i see it its really not about Jacks quailty. I think what it is really is forum members that dont get along with each other. There is history between Jack and members of the other forum and im not going to address my opinion on whos right and whos wrong.

Bottom line its a public forum like this one and as in all public places people are going to have there own opinoin.

[J. Z. Guest]

Well, it looks good to me Jack. I didn't know it had a raised fabric playing surface, and even drawers for beers!

Try ebay. Folks on craigslist are mostly looking for something cheap.

[Chris Padilla]

Agree with Jeremy: Craigslist is for folks looking for a deal. That idea was cemented in my head one time when a guy came over to buy my daughter's highchair:

"I'm on my third kid so she gets the Craigslist stuff...." ...and he handed me $40 for a ~$150-when-new-but-still-looked-great high chair. I was happy to get rid of the thing and I think this guy's daughter still got a nice chair even though she won't really care. :)

[regis helaine]

it's good looking and i am sure it appeal to out woodworker side but.... it doesn't look like a "pro" aka "table i see on tv" table and because of that it won't appeal to most player.

[jack duren]

The table wasnt designed for pro use or tounaments. It was based on those who have spouces who dont care to have a full blown poker table in the rec room. Unless you have a specific place to house one it tends to be a large out of need item. The basis for the table was to be first a kitchen table, second a place to display collectables and third to be the occassional poker table to be used with friends. The table meets this. Unlike a pool table that has little value other than playing pool.

The response from a few has been 50/50 credit or discredit. There is a select few on that forum that try very hard to discredit the table. The challenge is to be inventive. I think I reached that goal.

The black table I built was to see just how cheap I could build a Holdem table. Roughly $250 in the table. Good vinyl and better casino cloth. As cheap as I could get the table without degrading its use...

[Peter Quinn]

I don't gamble so i couldn't care less about functionality, but that is one sweet table. I love your design. Its not traditional, has that harlequin meets chess board feel. Very light and open for such a piece of furniture. Very interesting in a very good way. The other table posted looks like just about every other poker table I've ever seen or what I'd imagine a typical table would look like. Big, manly and BLAHHHHH.

Those pull out cup holder (chip holders?) are awesome. I guess when you veer that far from tradition in any arena your going to have your critics. What they say says a lot about them. How you handle that criticism says more about you.

[jack duren]

After being on Woodnet for 7-8 yrs you can imagine there ain't nothing they can bring out that I havent heard before. But every once in awhile something just hits one wrong. Probably why I finally got kicked off Woodnet;) ...

Reguardless. I started another cherry table a few days ago. Again a table I have no room for but I like building them. Its a challenge. I built about 8-9 blanket chests and gave them away before I finally had my fill. Needless to say I never kept one of those either:(

[Justin Leiwig]

Justin,

I don't play cards so I don't know about your criticism of Jack's table on functional grounds, but I think his is quite a bit better looking than that double pedestal model you posted. Taste is subjective, of course.

I'm sorry if it seemed I was criticizing his table, It was not my intention.

As I stated it is a very well made beautiful table. What I was stating was that it may not be very functional for a poker table. Having not played on the table I can't say for sure however. As others have stated two totally different realms between poker table building and fine woodworking.

Again..sorry if it seemed I was overly harsh. :(