quality waterstones on a budget?

[kyle mcdaniel]

I am diving into the world of hand planes and I want to get a set of water stones to keep them sharp. I was wondering if anybody could point me in the direction of some stones that wont break the bank. I want something good quality but I don't need whatever the #1 premium priced thing is.

also any advice on other accessories I might need for sharpening planes with water stones would be great.

thanks
km

[Mike Henderson]

Norton makes some very good stones and Lee Valley used to sell the King stones. Both should not break the bank.

The Lee Valley Mk II honing jig is a good tool to use if you're just learning to sharpen with water stones.

Mike

[Joe Close]

What Mike said!

I bought a set of Norton stones and they work well. One Note though: I would NOT buy the Norton flattening stone. Mine was warped, and I did not check it before using it, and subsequently un-flattned (if that is a word) my new stones. Using a piece of plate glass and sand paper for flattening stones seems to work the best, for me anyway. I read about others who have had issues w/ the Norton flattening stone as well.

[kyle mcdaniel]

What Mike said!

I bought a set of Norton stones and they work well. One Note though: I would NOT buy the Norton flattening stone. Mine was warped, and I did not check it before using it, and subsequently un-flattned (if that is a word) my new stones. Using a piece of plate glass and sand paper for flattening stones seems to work the best, for me anyway. I read about others who have had issues w/ the Norton flattening stone as well.

thanks for the tip. I was thinking about getting one of those flattening stones. where can I get the glass suitable for this job?

[mike holden]

Kyle, usually it is a piece of scrap, check your local glass supplier.
Keep in mind that an alternative, a granite surface plate, is available for about $30 bucks from Woodcraft. So, dont over spend for something. Another alternative is a marble tile - often cheap for a single tile. Another is a piece of mdf, Frank Klausz recommends it in his handplane video for flattening the soles of planes- but he does not use water on his sandpaper. Lots of flat things out there.
Mike

[Joel Goodman]

Craftsman Studio seems to have good prices on the Nortons.

[Joe Close]

thanks for the tip. I was thinking about getting one of those flattening stones. where can I get the glass suitable for this job?

I just went to a local glass shop and told them what I was looking for. They had some left-over peices of suitable size from a job and we haggled a deal. I paid about $25 for two pieces of 18"x25"x5/8". I bought an extra one incase one broke.

Some have suggested getting "float" glass, which is suppose to be as flat as glass can be produced. At the time I bought my glass, I had not heard of this stuff. You could ask the glass guy about it. It might be more costly, but by how much I don't know. The standard glass seems to be working fine, I can get my irons plenty sharp.

I use wet-dry sand paper and for really coarse work, that sanding mesh for dry wall. I just wet the paper and use the water surface tension and my fingers hold the paper on the glass. I tried gluing origionally, and that was kind of a pain. I found that gluing is not neccessary.

[Mike Henderson]

I've never used these stones but Holbren has two Norton oil stones (http://www.holbren.com/product.php?productid=3751&cat=643&page=1)on sale for $12.95 for both - a medium and a fine. Note that these are OIL stones, not water stones. I have not used them and can't give any recommendation on them.

I'm not associated wtih Holbren in any way.

Mike

[Robert Rozaieski]

I've never used these stones but Holbren has two Norton oil stones (http://www.holbren.com/product.php?productid=3751&cat=643&page=1)on sale for $12.95 for both - a medium and a fine. Note that these are OIL stones, not water stones. I have not used them and can't give any recommendation on them.

I'm not associated wtih Holbren in any way.

Mike

These would be a good starting stone for creating the initial burr after grinding but the "fine" is still very coarse and not a finishing stone. I use a Norton combination india oil stone (about $11) as my initial stone. The fine side is used to create the initial burr and is equivalent to about 320 grit according to what I've seen listed. I hardly use the coarse side but it is about 120 grit I believe. The India stones are aluminum oxide while the carborundum stones in the link above are silicone carbide. I've read that AlO is better but I can't say from experience as I've never used the SiC stone. Either way, one would need to progress to a polishing stone after either the AlO or SiC stones. I use a black Arkansas (about $40) after the India. The final step after the black Arkansas is to strop on leather ($20) charged with honing compound ($5).

I have used the Norton waterstones in the past and they work very well but as with all water stones, they dish quickly and need constant flattening. I didn't like this constant maintenance or the mess they create in use so I switched to oil stones. The oil stone setup was cheaper as well. The complete oil stone and strop setup was about the cost of the Norton 8000 grit water stone. However, the stones I have (2"x6"x1") are smaller than the Norton water stones (3"x8"x1"). This doesn't bother me because I hone freehand but if you use a jig you will appreciate the wide stones.

[Joel Goodman]

Concur that the oilstones mentioned are way too coarse for most work. A Norton 1000/4000 waterstone is $45.00 and is a good start. You will want to add an 8000 at some point. To flatten the stone a piece of mdf and some sandpaper will do fine.
Look at the websites for Tools for Working Wood, Lee Valley, Craftsmanstudio and you will see lots of waterstones. If you want to use a honing guide you will need the 3" wide -- freehand the 2" wide which are cheaper are an option. Separate stones are thicker and will last longer -- combo's are cheaper.
Happy sharpening!

[Spencer Hochstetler]

The best and cheapest waterstone for me is to not have one at all. I found stones to be slow compared to more non-traditional methods. Before I went to the hollow grind on an 8" white or ruby (soft and friable) grinding wheel on a bench grinder then onto one or two free-handed passes on a diamond stone and/or diamond powder on cast iron for honing, I used sandpaper stuck to glass. Cheap and fast. Some call it the "scary sharp" method, but I co-authored a little more refined article for Badger Pond (now WoodCentral) a few years ago.

The article can be found here (http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl?dir=shop&file=articles_244.shtml).

[Michael Faurot]

One Note though: I would NOT buy the Norton flattening stone. Mine was warped, and I did not check it before using it, and subsequently un-flattned (if that is a word) my new stones.


I also have the Norton flattening stone and ran into a problem with it not being flat. It took awhile for me to figure out that the stone I was using to flatten my waterstones, was itself not flat. I don't know if the Nortone flattening stone came from the factory not being flat, or whether it just wore that way.

Once I did figure out that the Norton flattening stone needed to be flattened--I was able to fix it with coarse grit sand paper on a granite surface plate. Now I just check on it periodically with a straight edge, before I use it to flatten my waterstones.

So my question would be, is this a problem with just the Norton flattening stone, or are all similar type flattening stones from other manufacturers prone to the same problem and periodically require flattening? My suspicion would be all such "flattening" devices are prone to wear and need to be checked periodically.

[Mike Henderson]

I also have the Norton flattening stone and ran into a problem with it not being flat. It took awhile for me to figure out that the stone I was using to flatten my waterstones, was itself not flat. I don't know if the Nortone flattening stone came from the factory not being flat, or whether it just wore that way.

Once I did figure out that the Norton flattening stone needed to be flattened--I was able to fix it with coarse grit sand paper on a granite surface plate. Now I just check on it periodically with a straight edge, before I use it to flatten my waterstones.

So my question would be, is this a problem with just the Norton flattening stone, or are all similar type flattening stones from other manufacturers prone to the same problem and periodically require flattening? My suspicion would be all such "flattening" devices are prone to wear and need to be checked periodically.
You're absolutely correct. The stone came from the factory flat but when you rub two stones together you do not get two flat surfaces - you get two conforming surfaces. Most likely one surface will be concave and the other convex.

With the "flattening stone" each time you used it, it became a bit more concave or convex - and, of course, the other (working) stone became the opposite.

Flattening stones just aren't worth it. You have to flatten them so why use them. Whatever you use to flatten your flattening stone, use that same thing to flatten your working stone.

I use a DMT extra coarse diamond plate to flatten my stones, and also use it to flatten the backs of chisels and plane blades. A bit expensive but well worth it.

Mike

[Joe Close]

I also have the Norton flattening stone and ran into a problem with it not being flat. It took awhile for me to figure out that the stone I was using to flatten my waterstones, was itself not flat. I don't know if the Nortone flattening stone came from the factory not being flat, or whether it just wore that way.

Once I did figure out that the Norton flattening stone needed to be flattened--I was able to fix it with coarse grit sand paper on a granite surface plate. Now I just check on it periodically with a straight edge, before I use it to flatten my waterstones.

So my question would be, is this a problem with just the Norton flattening stone, or are all similar type flattening stones from other manufacturers prone to the same problem and periodically require flattening? My suspicion would be all such "flattening" devices are prone to wear and need to be checked periodically.

I'm confident my flattening stone was out from the get go. I had not used it that much before I figured out what was going on. My waterstone was new, my flatten stone was new, and in a matter of a half hour I had a sharpening mess on my hands. The flattening stone was actually twisted.
Made note to self: never assume something is flat, period. I should have checked ALL the stones before beginning.

[Frank Drew]

Kyle,

I like water stones and have found that they cut quicker than the oil stones I was using, and the cleanup is with water, not a feature shared by oil stones.

King brand are good quality and not terribly expensive, as Mike mentioned above.

[Wilbur Pan]

This is a bit out of the box, but for a high grit waterstone, Lee Valley still has some closeout natural Japanese waterstones (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=47299&cat=1,43072) for $35-45. I have the $45 one, and it is at least as high a grit as a 8000 grit stone, and you can't get a 8000 grit waterstone for $45. In many ways, I actually like it more than my 8000 grit waterstone.

[Eddie Darby]

If you want to reduce the overall cost, then use your abrasive wisely.
King stones should do the trick, or skip the jig and go with Norton, which is a way better stone, IMHO.

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesArticle.aspx?id=30993

[Matt Wilson]

Once I did figure out that the Norton flattening stone needed to be flattened--I was able to fix it with coarse grit sand paper on a granite surface plate.

I had really good luck flattening mine on the sidewalk. It took about 2 minutes. 8 minutes if you include the questions I had to answer from interested pedestrians...;)

[Doug Littlejohn]

thanks for the tip. I was thinking about getting one of those flattening stones. where can I get the glass suitable for this job?

Well, my experience was completely different. My flattening stone was (and still is) flat and it works very well. From my experience, I would reccomend it without hessitation.

Depending on where you buy them (I almost always use Lee Valley) if there were some problem, the vendor should stand behind the product (LV would without question and they even pay the shipping, they send you a new item with the return packaging & shipping label).

I have the glass and grit methode as well but it does not work nearly as easy as the flattening stone does. Note however, you will need to periodically re-flatten the flattening stone as well.

Either way should server you well.