operator errors -- where did I go wrong?

[Rebecca Trails]

Hey guys, I would really appreciate your advice.

Here’s the deal. I have ¼” Baltic birch I need to cut into simple rectangles and squares. The smallest pieces will probably be 6”X6”. The original 5’X5’ sheets were cut into smaller pieces so the largest size I have to mange is 2’X5’.

Last year I did this same job, but ran into some problems that have me scared to use my saw again. I’m hoping you can set me straight on a few things.

Saw: I have a Dewalt (DW746) Woodworker’s Table Saw with all the bells and whistles. http://www.ideo.com/portfolio/re.asp?x=50141 Including the Slide Table, Out-feed table. It has the 52” rail system and is on the mobile base.

Blades: Several blades came with the saw when I bought it used.
1)Dewalt 10” Series 20, 60 teeth Carbide, acabado
2)DW7131 5/8”, Series 40
3)Industrial Dyanmite Carbine Teeth, Smooth –Cut Combination, 27256, Vermont-American.
4)Two other blades – a dado and something else that is also in pieces.

Problems: Last year when I was cutting the wood I had several problems. Some resulted in waste of product and others were safety concerns.
1)birch splintering too much
2)wood pieces flying forward
3)wood close to the blade lifting up off the table
4)wood binding between the blade and fence

I have to solve these safety problems; I have this saw sitting in my garage and I'm afraid to use it. The blade guard and slitter were not on the saw. Blade guards have always been in my way of seeing the line on other saws I’ve used. But that isn’t the case with this saw because the fence doesn’t require me to have a line. Also, I’d never heard of a splitter until I recently read some safety information online. I don’t know what it’s suppose to do or how it does it’s job.

Questions:
1)Why was I having so many problems cutting this wood?
2)Which blade would is best for my job? One I own, or something else? Might someone locally be interested in these extra blades?
3)As the pieces become smaller, should I handle the pieces differently?
4)I’m not sure these are the best or correct questions given the problems I experienced. Are there other questions I should be asking?

Much thanks!
Rebecca

[Tom Veatch]

...
1)birch splintering too much
2)wood pieces flying forward
3)wood close to the blade lifting up off the table
4)wood binding between the blade and fence
...

These are the first things that come to my mind with regard to the problems you describe, in addition to installing the Blade Guard and Splitter:

1) Zero Clearance Insert, Sharp High Tooth Count Blade for Plywood, Saw Alignment, Score the cutline before cutting.
2) Sharp Blade, Saw Alignment
3) Sharp Blade, Saw Alignment
4) Saw/Fence Alignment

You say you bought the saw used, and list blades that came with the saw. Depending on the use made of the blades before you got them, I'd guess they could be dull, and/or in need of being cleaned of pitch residue. The wood being lifted during the cut indicates that to me pretty strongly along with the possibility that the blade needs to be raised a little higher. Raise the blade as high as you're comfortable with and at least high enough to expose the entire gullets between the sawblade teeth. Most of the other things you mention also point toward the need for a sharp blade as well as probable misalignment of the saw.

If you bought the saw used, it was doubtlessly transported to your location. It's very likely that the alighment was disturbed during that move. If you haven't checked and tuned the saw since you got it, that would be the first thing that I would do. The plane of the saw blade needs to be aligned parallel to the miter slot and the fence needs to be aligned parallel to the same miter slot.

There are a number of good reference books that cover the subject in much greater depth and detail than can be done in a forum post. One that I'm familiar with is "The Tablesaw Book" by Kelly Mehler from Taunton Press which covers most of the basics about blade types, their applications and tuning or aligning the saw. I'd strongly urge you to grab a copy of that or a similar book. It's available online new for under $15 and used for under $10.

[Peter Stahl]

I would say check the blade to fence alignment. Get it as close as possible measuring from the same tooth on the blade rotating it from front to back. Mark it with a marker and use the best measuing device you have. I just had a old dial micrometer. I have mine to where it is a hair wider at the back/ farthest away from you. Also you might want to go to a fine tooth blade for cutting the plywood and a ZCI would help too.

[Charlie Schultz]

When you say "wood pieces flying forward" and "wood close to the blade lifting up off the table", it almost sounds like you're feeding the wood from the wrong side of the table?

[Curt Harms]

Being afraid of a machine is a very good way to get hurt. Others have suggested books or videos. Good advice, especially if you're not real familiar with or experienced with machinery. Are you familiar with Woodcraft in Austin? You might check with them about classes and/or demonstrations if you're uncertain about how things are supposed to work.


HTH

Curt

[Travis Rassat]

4)wood binding between the blade and fence


For this, a couple of things come to mind:
1. To me, that sounds like the fence is not parallel with the blade. I know mine deflects a lot when I clamp the fence down, so it is important to measure your alignment when it is clamped.

2. You also might want to clean and wax your table and fence so everything slides well. I clean mine with some mineral spirits and then put on a coat of Johnson Paste Wax. There are a lot of good threads here talking about different methods of cleaning and waxing tool tables.

3. With thin plywood, it might be helpful to use a sacrificial fence made out of something like 3/4" MDF (or some other smooth, square material) clamped to your fence that is square right down to the table. I'm not familiar with the fence on your DeWalt, but if the bottom edge is rounded a bit, it might bind a bit with thinner materials.

Also - in reference to the wood lifting - a fence-mounted featherboard might be helpful in making sure the wood stays down with bigger pieces.

I hope that helps! A tablesaw is a powerful tool - it should be respected, but there's no need to fear it! :)

[Dewey Torres]

You only need 2 things:

1)As others here already stated, a sharp high quality blade (I like the Freud brand). Dewalt is not known for good blades.

2) A crosscut sled will eliminate all of your other problems. Make a small simple one and try it out. You will be amazed. Small accurately cut pieces are far easier to cut on a sled ... oh and WAY safer than a fence.

Dewey

[Anthony Whitesell]

As others have said, check the fence/blade alignment. That's most likely the cause of the binding, the kickbacks, and the splintering (especially if the splintering is on the top of the leading edge).

The lifting is either due to the binding and/or the blade height. In another thread it was asked how high should you run the tablesaw blade. I would search for it and read the other responses. My response was as low as possible to minimize the amount of blade sticking through the wood; but too little blade will allow or cause the piece to lift from the table due to the cutting angle. If it's too low, I just nudge the height up a quarter turn or so. My blade is usually just high enough the carbide clears the workpiece at the blade center.

After a good tune-up, rip the pieces to width and then use a crosscut sled with a stop block to cut the pieces to length.

[Walt Caza]

Hi Rebecca,
It seems you came to the right place... lots of good advice already given.
Here is a link to Taunton publishing:
http://store.taunton.com/onlinestore/item/the-table-saw-book-2nd-edition-and-mastering-your-table-saw-dvd-07A710.html

It offers a deal on the mentioned book by Kelly Mehler on The Table Saw.
Also a DVD on Mastering your Tablesaw. Good fundamentals...

Sounds to me you need some basic instruction so you can stay safe while
you learn. Dewey's crosscut sled idea would certainly be helpful.
It is a homemade shop jig that rides in the miter slots and makes safe,
accurate crosscuts quicker and easier.

The catch 22 with the crosscut sled is that it would be easier to make one, if you already had one.
We stumble into this conundrum all the time in the woodshop.
Such as trying to build a router table, without a router table. Or trying to build a workbench, without the benefit of a workbench.
As all ww'ing, there are many ways to approach it.
Building a sled can be a bit tricky, as you want it really accurate.

Splinters are a nuisance you can learn to minimize with set-up and technique. That is a quality of output issue.
Lifting, binding and flying wood are a safety hazard, and not part of normal, reasonably safe tablesaw operation.

We all have a little voice inside that speaks to us as we machine wood.
You were wise to heed it, and feel afraid with your current need for lessons.
The brightside is you can and will learn to operate your saw safely. You have already taken your first steps in the right direction.

The possiblity of getting hurt in life altering ways is always lurking in the woodshop.
We all look to stay safe, and only want others to stay safe too!
Please do your homework,
Walt

ps congrats on your new-to-you shop acquistion! ...and welcome to the Creek!
:)

[Thom Sturgill]

Definitely check the saw alignment and blade condition. Also make a zero clearance throat plate to cut down on splintering. You can also use masking tape to cut down on the splintering.

There are several sites that have detailed instructions on saw alignment as well as several books, check the local library and you may be able to borrow one if you do not want to buy one.

The other issue is cutting small pieces. Make or buy a push stick so that your hands never get within 3" of the blade. I cut pieces of 3/4" MDF shaped like a handsaw handle with a hook on the bottom that I use. Others prefer a longer stick-like pusher (think paint stirrer with a notch at the end, but thicker) or a G-R-Ripper that saddles the fence. Use what works for you and always keep it in arms reach.

[Greg Hines, MD]

Welcome to Sawmill Creek.

Doc

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

1)birch splintering too muchProlly the saw nees to be "tuned up" The relationship between the blade and the rip fence and miter fence guide slots must be trued up. I like my slider to drift away from the blade by about a thou ( 0.001") over the distance of my 12" blade. I'd set a Miter Fence guide slot to track similarly on a conventional TS. Think of the leading edge of the blade as the nexus point the crossroads of a very gently V the rip tapers away just a scosh and the miter tapers away just a scosh with the wide part of the V on the out feed side of the table.
The angle of the V should be ever so small that you can only measure a thou or two across the span of the blade (using the same marked place in the blade so as not to be misled by blade deformities).
Use an indicator mounted in whatever will slip in the slot.





2)wood pieces flying forwardI am thinking you mean saw dust and chips hitting you in the face? Yah well I have learned to live with that as I never - ever use a blade guard. I loath all the rig-a-marole safety stuff 'cause it just gets in my way. But then I come from an old school machine shop heavy industrial background.

If it bothers you put a blade guard on the thing. A zero clearance insert will help with this & also with the chip-out on the bottom of the board.


3)wood close to the blade lifting up off the table Tune your saw as per #1 above. This is because the back of the blade is contacting the work.

Either that or you have the blade set low and it's riding up on the cut, catching a tooth, and slamming back that 1/4" or so violently.


4)wood binding between the blade and fenceSee #1 above. This is because the fence is set the opposite way it should be. Clearly it's tapering the work INTO the back of blade and that is BAD.

As to the safety stuff.
I had a Craftsman Contractor for oh say about 36 years. The first thing I did to it was throw all the safety crap away. I never missed any of it. The pauls the splitter the guard all went in the trash as soon as it came out of the box. My Austrian Slider also has no riving knife or guard mounted. I kept 'em maybe out of sentimentality - after all - I must have paid a hefty price for the things considering the overall cost. I have mounted and used the riving knife on maybe three or five occasions when cutting lumber that I just knew was bound to squeeze up and clamp the blade. But if I'm not doing a lot of rips in unreliable lumber,I rely on little wood wedges that I slip in the blade kerf just aft of the blade. That does me just fine.

[Jacob Reverb]

Rebecca,

Welcome to the forum. Lots of knowledgeable, helpful people here, and you've gotten some good advice so far.

If you can find it in your library or at a used bookseller like alibris.com, a good book on using and adjusting your table saw is "The Table Saw Book" by R.J. DeCristoforo ... here's (http://www.alibris.com/booksearch.detail?invid=9503504423&qwork=6522618&title=Table+saw+Book&qsort=p&page=1) a copy for $3.27

Highly recommended, and if the saw is throwing wood as you suggest, I would strongly suggest you find out why so you can prevent it.

Good luck and be careful,

Jacob

[Dick Strauss]

Rebecca,
Welcome to SMC!

Make sure the saw is tuned properly first as others have suggested. Books and videos are a very good start. You'll probably want to consult with a local expert to double check everything and give you a lesson or two.

I like to raise the blade high enough that the bottom of the gullet (the missing metal just below the teeth on the blade) just clears the top surface of the wood. At a minimum, the blade carbide tips need to clear the wood. The higher the blade is set, the more the blade pulls the wood down to the saw rather than pushing it back at you. This is a little scary seeeing the blade coming at you but push sticks keep your hands at a safe distance.

Painters tape can help with splintered edges when all else (saw tuneup, new blade, etc) fails.

Sandpaper on the vertical surface of your slider/miter gauge can help keep the plywood from moving while in the cutting motion.

[Matt Hutchinson]

It seems that most everything has already been covered.

Just wanted to say that I too highly recommend the Kelly Mehler book and video. I have read and seen both of them, and they are very good. The video is especially helpful for anyone unfamiliar with the details of the engineering of table saws. The segment on blade alignment and overall tuning is very clear and easy to understand. Also, be sure to check your local libray, cuz you might get lucky and find them there. Good luck!

Hutch

[Rebecca Trails]

I really appreciate all of the replies. I assumed, from what the previous owner told me the blade is fine and I tried varying the height of the blade last summer. I'd forgotten I had Mehler's book -- so I've spent some time with it this morning.

As a few of you have pointed out, I probably need to get some in-person help. Even though I'm capable of reading the book, I don't think I'm going to be comfortable until someone knowledgeable has looked at the set up. When I find this person -- how do I know if the person is really qualified? Any idea what a reasonable fee might be?

I'll try my local Woodcraft store. Several years ago, if I recall correctly, they didn't have a bulletin board or any means of finding someone who could assist me. If anyone is aware of a woodworking club in the Austin area that would have qualified members, I'd appreciate the led.

[Rebecca Trails]

The video might be helpful for me. When I read a couple of sections and looked at the pictures, I just wasn't clear what they were trying to show me.

[Greg Hines, MD]

I really appreciate all of the replies. I assumed, from what the previous owner told me the blade is fine and I tried varying the height of the blade last summer. I'd forgotten I had Mehler's book -- so I've spent some time with it this morning.

As a few of you have pointed out, I probably need to get some in-person help. Even though I'm capable of reading the book, I don't think I'm going to be comfortable until someone knowledgeable has looked at the set up. When I find this person -- how do I know if the person is really qualified? Any idea what a reasonable fee might be?

I'll try my local Woodcraft store. Several years ago, if I recall correctly, they didn't have a bulletin board or any means of finding someone who could assist me. If anyone is aware of a woodworking club in the Austin area that would have qualified members, I'd appreciate the led.



Frankly, I would ask if any of the Woodcraft employees might be able to come by on their time off and see if they can help you out. Most are very knowledgeable and should be able to tune up your saw for you without difficulty.

That said, you do need to become familiar with the inner workings of your saw. I would suggest that you take the manual, if it came with one, or download one if it did not, and follow their instructions on tuning it up. Perhaps one of the Woodcraft employees might be able to help you with that, but you need to know what they are doing so that you can keep it aligned in the future.

Doc

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Oh an as to tuning your saw:
I don't know how your trunnion is connected whether it's to a cabinet or to the underside of the table - prolly the latter.

Either way there are going to be bolts and most likely shims all making the connection between the trunnion and whatever it's attached to. Ya gotta loosen those bolts a scosh while keeping 'em sort of slightly snug while you tune the saw.

It's a matter of "tap, tap, tap; Tighten, test, repeat" till you get it right.

Don't let the shims slip out and if you must remove them (I can't imagine why you would) mark them so you can put 'em back exactly like they were in the exact bolt station where they were.

[Curt Harms]

You only need 2 things:

1)As others here already stated, a sharp high quality blade (I like the Freud brand). Dewalt is not known for good blades.

2) A crosscut sled will eliminate all of your other problems. Make a small simple one and try it out. You will be amazed. Small accurately cut pieces are far easier to cut on a sled ... oh and WAY safer than a fence.

Dewey

If she has a sliding table, wouldn't the crosscut sled be redundant? I don't have a sliding table but wouldn't mind one.:cool:.

Curt

[Matt Hutchinson]

The advantage with a sled is that it creates a zero clearance support for the work piece, and safely cutting small pieces is easy. Sliding tables usually don't excel at cutting small work pieces.

Hutch

[Heather Thompson]

Rebecca,

I took a six week class in Canada in 2005, part of the class was dedicated to setting up machines, one of the guys in front of me set the guides on a bandsaw so tight that it would have caused a fire. In MHO make sure that the person has a clue about what they are doing, there are talented Creekers in your area, hopefully one will step forward. I used to travel to your neck of the woods, but not since I am no longer working. The advice that has been given above is all great, just think you may need a little hands on to get you going, power tools are great and an asset in woodworking. If you are afraid of a tool, don't use it until you have been properly instructed! There is one person on this site that states they have worked around power tools their whole life and can still count to twenty one nakey, I can only count to twenty (Don't think it is a real difference).
:D

Heather

Please see My signature!

[Howard Acheson]

Rebecca, please don't take this the wrong way but what is your experience with tablesaws? Have you used one before?

Most of the problems you relate seem to be the result of not having any clear instruction using a tablesaw. There is no reason that the saw you have can not be used safely directly out of the box. While some of the things related by other are good to have, they are not integral to the operation of the saw. No amount of aftermarket items or fixtures will make the saw safe to operate if you don't have some groundwork in using tablesaws.

Are there any woodworkers in your area that can help you learn your saw? Contact a lumberyard or cabinet shop.

At the very minimum purchase The Table Saw Book by Kelly Mehler. www.amazon.com/Table-Saw-Book-Completely-Revised/dp/1561584266

This book will at least get you started. Learn and practice before you tackle a real project.

[Tom Walz]

What you maybe need is someone to come over and help you. Maybe find a class or a woodworkers' club.

Lots of folks cut for years with no sfety gear and do just fine. Some get hurt first time.

You have some combo blades which are o.k. A finer tooth will give you a cleaner cut.

You might want to check blade height above the material. Maybe set it so two teeth are showing above the wood.

Check your feed rate. You might be feeding too fast.

Check how close the table comes to the saw blade. The more support you have under the wood being cut the better cut you are likley to get.

[Brian Kent]

Rebecca,

If you can find it in your library or at a used bookseller like alibris.com, a good book on using and adjusting your table saw is "The Table Saw Book" by R.J. DeCristoforo ...

Jacob

Is that the same family as OUR DeCristoforo?

[Rebecca Trails]

Howie, no offense taken. I understand how my questions sound. I've used numerous table saws as well as 5 other types of saws that I can think of -- both electric and pneumatic. But these saws were almost exclusively in shops of university theatres -- the equipment was there, I knew how to use it safely but I did no maintenance of any type. One reason I wanted this Dewalt saw was because it has some features that make it safer for me to work on, like the sliding table.

This afternoon I spoke to a fellow who teaches woodworking and use of equipment. He is specifically familiar with my model of saw. We're planning for him to come to my house, for a reasonable fee, to check the setup of my saw and help me set it up correctly. I also bought a The Forrest WoodworkerII sawblade.

[Neal Clayton]

i'm betting the blade will make a huge difference for the splintering, but the binding and other problems are something else.

table saws properly set up are perfectly safe in the hands of a capable person, table saws not properly set up and adjusted are probably the most dangerous tool you could ever use, regardless of the person operating it.

[Tom Veatch]

...This afternoon I spoke to a fellow who teaches woodworking and use of equipment. He is specifically familiar with my model of saw. We're planning for him to come to my house, for a reasonable fee, to check the setup of my saw and help me set it up correctly. I also bought a The Forrest WoodworkerII sawblade.

Looks like you'll shortly be good to go. The WWII blade has an excellent reputation and, although I've never opened my wallet far enough to buy one (the moths might escape), I predict that you'll be pleased with the results compared to what you've been using. I also predict that, even with your current blades, you'll see a tremendous improvement after the saw is properly setup and tuned.

[Rebecca Trails]

1)As others here already stated, a sharp high quality blade (I like the Freud brand). Dewalt is not known for good blades.
Dewey

Done




2) A crosscut sled will eliminate all of your other problems. Make a small simple one and try it out. You will be amazed. Small accurately cut pieces are far easier to cut on a sled ... oh and WAY safer than a fence.
Dewey

I'm going to have to learn what exactly a crosscut sled is and how it works. I saw a picture in Mehler's book, but wasn't sure I understood how it works. It looks like it drops into the miter-gauge slot so it can only move straight back. Because it doesn't use a fence, it can bind up between the blade and the fence. Is this the general idea? I don't really want to make one -- does someone sell them?

Curt mentioned the sliding table -- it is 7.5" from the blade -- which is too far for some of my cuts.

I have a chop saw on a skinny 9' long table - but the blade simply isn't large enough to make the cuts. In a large shop I'd use a RAS to do all the cross cuts.

[Dewey Torres]

If she has a sliding table, wouldn't the crosscut sled be redundant? I don't have a sliding table but wouldn't mind one.:cool:.

Curt

Curt,
Sliding table does not equal sled.
The advantage of a crosscut sled is that you can clamp a stop block to it, make a cut, move the keeper piece out of the way, move the stock up against the stop block.... again, and again, and again. The perfect tool for what she is trying to accomplish.

The fall off stays on the sled and the operator pulls the sled toward themselves after each cut which keeps the operator way from the blade while removing the fall off piece.

Sleds wont allow pieces to be thrown back at you... and if made correctly, they are dead accurate.

A sliding table only supports the stock on one slide, kind of like a "cut off" sled does.

Having said all that, sliding tables are very nice... especially if they are the kind minimax, Felder, Laguna (of the like) makes...but something tells me this Dewalt set up isn't of the same quality.

Rebecca... for you:

http://www.geotekds.com/sled/index.htm

http://www.wordsnwood.com/2002/j.sled2/

http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-plans/tablesaw/crosscut-sled/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMJOKfp7TfI

Above are some links and a video (last link).

Dewey

[Greg Hines, MD]

I'm going to have to learn what exactly a crosscut sled is and how it works. I saw a picture in Mehler's book, but wasn't sure I understood how it works. It looks like it drops into the miter-gauge slot so it can only move straight back. Because it doesn't use a fence, it can bind up between the blade and the fence. Is this the general idea? I don't really want to make one -- does someone sell them?

Curt mentioned the sliding table -- it is 7.5" from the blade -- which is too far for some of my cuts.

I have a chop saw on a skinny 9' long table - but the blade simply isn't large enough to make the cuts. In a large shop I'd use a RAS to do all the cross cuts.


A crosscut sled is simply a sled with a fence that moves the workpiece across the blade in a consistent way. With your sliding table, you can fashion a very good crosscutting sled by simply clamping or screwing a plywood base to your sliding table, and fashioning a fence that is 90 degrees to the cut line. This will allow you to hold a workpiece against the fence, and move it past the blade in a controlled fashion. For those of us who do not have the benefit of your sliding table, we put a runner (or two as the case may be) to guide the sled, but your set up would be easier in my estimation, as long as your slider is parallel to your saw blade.

Which again gets back to tuning your saw, and making the table, miter slots, and slider parallel to the blade.

Crosscut sleds can be big or small. My sled is about 24x20, with a fence about 2" high. I think that they are best when they are small enough that you will use them. The bigger and more cumbersome that they are, the less likely you are to use them.

Doc