Kitchen Cabinet Upper backing question

[Theresa Keihn]

I'm getting ready to start making my own kitchen cabinets.

I'm making the uppers 14" depth, taking out the soffit & making them to almost the ceiling.

Would using 3/4" plywood for the backer, and not using a fastening cleat...and fastening the cabinets to the wall through the 3/4" plywood be strong enough to hold the cabinets to the wall? Since they're my own cabinets, the cost for the 3/4" plywood isn't an issue, but I'm concerned about the holding factor.

Thanks in advance for any advice

Theresa

[David DeCristoforo]

A 3/4" back would certainly be more than "strong enough". Overkill in fact unless your dishes are made of extraordinarily heavy material....

[alex grams]

I concur with david, the backing will be strong enough, just make sure you secure the cabinet securely to the backing :) and VERY HEAVY to lift into place.

[Karl Brogger]

I use 1/2" ply for the backs of my upper cabinets. I agree with all of the other comments

[Randall Hansen]

FWIW Theresa, I made cleats from 3/4" plywood, cutting them in half lengthwise at a 45-degree angle. One half went on the wall, the other half on the cabinet, so that I could literally hang the cabinets with no fasteners while I got them in place. It also meant I could be really careful and robust about the cleat placement and attachment.

I agree 3/4" probably is overkill, but I did the math and would have saved very little money. IMHO that was more than made up for by the added efficiency of building everything from the same size board.

(In the photo, only the top cleat was for hanging; the bottom for stability, and to keep things square.)

[jerry nazard]

Theresa,

Randall's suggestion about the French cleats is excellent. If you can work that into your design it would be the way to go.

Best!

-Jerry

[Ed Peters]

and all my backs are 3/4" thick. Each box has a dado across the back about 9/16 deep by 2" wide at 4" down from the top. When I arrive to install the cabinets, I first shoot a laser line around the room and attach strips of 1/2" plywood to the walls where the cabinets will be hung. This allows for perfect level on the boxes and I get to locate all the studs without any visible damage. Those locations can then be transferred to the boxes which I predrill. Also, there is no easier way to hang uppers. Just sit them up on the rail, slide them into location and lag 'em in. This trick and a couple of others allows me to install a complete average kitchen including crown molding in under 6 hours.

Ed

[Matt Ocel]

3/4"?

You must have some pretty heavy China!

Most box cabinets use 1/4" and they don't fall off the wall.(to often)

[Don Abele]

...Each box has a dado across the back about 9/16 deep by 2" wide at 4" down from the top...

Ed, how do you treat the end of the cabinet run so the dado doesn't show? Do you use applied side panels over the cabinet side?

Be well,

Doc

[Peter Quinn]

I would think 1/2" would make a strong enough back if you use washer head fasteners, 3/4" is approaching gun boat status. French cleats are also quite strong. Regardless of which method you end up choosing make sure the piece which is securely fastened to the wall to hold the uppers is also securely fastened to the cabinets!

Last time I checked the difference in cost between a sheet of A-2 3/4" maple and a sheet of A-2 1/2" maple was not enough to make much difference on an average size kitchen job. If you got stuck with one or two sheets of 1/2" back material it would probably be a wash at the end versus using 3/4" backs, so you might choose to use material of a single thickness for simplicity's sake.


My cabinets built in the 50's have no backs. Just plaster walls back there. You don't actually need backs at all on face frame cabinets, though they make a nice dust shield.

[Ed Peters]

Ed, how do you treat the end of the cabinet run so the dado doesn't show? Do you use applied side panels over the cabinet side?

Be well,

Doc

Just that simple.

[Ed Peters]

3/4"?

You must have some pretty heavy China!

Most box cabinets use 1/4" and they don't fall off the wall.(to often)
As I pointed out, this is primarily to speed up my installation. I do not like the use of french cleats because they require the use of fillers and blocking that I prefer not to fool around with.

Ed

[jack duren]

"Also, there is no easier way to hang uppers. Just sit them up on the rail, slide them into location and lag 'em in. This trick and a couple of others allows me to install a complete average kitchen including crown molding in under 6 hours."

Average set takes me and a partner 45-60 minutes to install including crown without using cleats..... two sets a day,10 sets a week,520 a year and 3,640 over the 7 yrs I worked there. And yes I was a professional cabinet installer...

[Ed Peters]

Average set takes me and a partner 45-60 minutes to install including crown without using cleats..... two sets a day,10 sets a week,520 a year and 3,640 over the 7 yrs I worked there. And yes I was a professional cabinet installer...[/QUOTE]

That is some super hero type of speed. I couldn't even install the hanging rail in that amount of time. It normally takes me about 1/2 hour to unload and get setup before I am ready to start. To do all you are talking about in an hour or less leaves me speechless.
One question though. If you can install complete in an hour or less ( "including Crown"), why are you only doing 2 sets a day. Seems like you could double up and take every other week off without even breaking a sweat.

Ed

[Kelly C. Hanna]

and all my backs are 3/4" thick. Each box has a dado across the back about 9/16 deep by 2" wide at 4" down from the top. When I arrive to install the cabinets, I first shoot a laser line around the room and attach strips of 1/2" plywood to the walls where the cabinets will be hung. This allows for perfect level on the boxes and I get to locate all the studs without any visible damage. Those locations can then be transferred to the boxes which I predrill. Also, there is no easier way to hang uppers. Just sit them up on the rail, slide them into location and lag 'em in. This trick and a couple of others allows me to install a complete average kitchen including crown molding in under 6 hours.

Ed

Wow (W@ow)....that's fast!

[Ron Bontz]

Well I wish I had seen this post several weeks ago. I am in the process of building my uppers. After one of those wonderful cheap cabinets (particle board) full of our stone ware broke loose at the cleat joints we lost all but 5 dinner plates out of about 20 and nearly all of our cups, etc. I even had a nice bruise on my hip where the cabinet hit me as it was coming down and I was trying to protect the new glass top stove I just installed. I just finished making the backs for the new cabinets out of solid oak, 1/2" mortice and tennon joints and 1/4" ply panels. Basically flat panel doors. Definitely over kill but at least they look nice. So I say go for it with the 3/4" ply back. If I did not already have my backs made I would definitely use Ed's idea.

[jack duren]

Average set takes me and a partner 45-60 minutes to install including crown without using cleats..... two sets a day,10 sets a week,520 a year and 3,640 over the 7 yrs I worked there. And yes I was a professional cabinet installer...

That is some super hero type of speed. I couldn't even install the hanging rail in that amount of time. It normally takes me about 1/2 hour to unload and get setup before I am ready to start. To do all you are talking about in an hour or less leaves me speechless.
One question though. If you can install complete in an hour or less ( "including Crown"), why are you only doing 2 sets a day. Seems like you could double up and take every other week off without even breaking a sweat.

Ed[/QUOTE]

Shop only builds 2 sets a day with 13 employees. We use a 24' box truck. It will hold 2 average sets, a four plex(4 units) or a large set. Its not all breaks and long lunches. Some days we have to wait for the truck to be loaded. Drive one hour one way and two the opposite. Deal with rain,snow,painters,hardwoods being installed,etc....We were payed by the hr versus percentage. So some weeks you struggle to get 40 so you drag...

[Matt Ocel]

Ed -

How big is an average kitchen?

[Ed Peters]

about 24' of uppers and whatever the floor plan allows for in the way of lowers.
I do basic cabinetry, nothing extraordinary. Raised panel doors and exposed end panels. Normally includes 3.5" crown molding and, when the design and depth of pocket allows for it, lighted soffit.
That's average to me.

Ed

[Matt Ocel]

Ed -

Your above average in my book.

[Ed Peters]

my wife tells me that very same thing every morning. That makes you two very much alike.

Ed