Hidden deck fastener systems - Experience?

[Lincoln Myers]

I asked a little about this in a previous thread, but...

If anyone has experience with any hidden deck fastening systems, please chime in here. I will be using this with treated 5/4 decking.

These are the ones I've seen.

1. Eb-Ty - seems like it wouldn't be the best solution w/ treated b/c shrinkage may pull board away from fastener.

2. Deckmaster - looks pretty promising.
http://www.grabberman.com/Deckmaster/

3. Shadoetrack and The Hidden Link - The hidden link solution looks pretty promising as well. Take a look at the installation video at the link below.
http://www.shadoetrack.com/install.php


Any experience at all or comment on the above will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Linc

[James Adinaro]

I put in a 12'x16' deck using the deckmaster system a number of years ago. The biggest irritation was that, though I painted the galvanized brackets before installing the decking, the paint eventually wore off, and you could see the brackets shining up through the deck. It seems they have since started powdercoating the brackets, so you shouldn't have that problem.

Other than that, no complaints really. Installation was a bit uncomfortable, as my deck was only a couple feet off the ground, and I had to lie or squat underneath it to attach. I was installing 1.5" thick Trex. Had no trouble with it, and it held up great for the remaining years I was there. There have been no problems from the new owner either.

I'm considering replacing the decking at my current house, and will be using the Deckmaster system when I do. It looks really great not to have fasteners on the top.

My $0.02.

James

[Dave Falkenstein]

Lincoln - As you know from your other thread, I have nothing but good experience with Deckmaster. I have installed several Deckmaster decks, including my own 500 square foot deck. There is some labor involved to install the brackets and some cost in the brackets and screws. If your deck is close to the ground, installation of the brackets and installation of the decking is a bit more cumbersome, but doable. When using Deckmaster with 5/4 decking, be sure to get the kits with the appropriate length of decking screws. If the gap between the decking boards is kept to a minimum, 1/4" is what I use, the brackets don't show through the top of the deck.

[J. Z. Guest]

Lincoln, you could use the Kreg system and pocket screws from underneath. They make outdoor screws now. No brackets or anything, but it will take longer since youwill have to drill the pocket holes.

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

I had our contractor use the Deckmaster system when we did a lot of construction. I love it - the clean look of a deck without nails or screws is very nice. I have had a small issue with some of the boards working themselves loose (after 7 years or so?), so I just need to carve out some time to get under there and secure them again. I'd use it again in a heartbeat - especially if they're offering powder coated brackets to help 'hide' them more.

[Chris Padilla]

http://www.strongtie.com/ftp/fliers/F-DECKCODE07.pdf is a good read for you, Lincoln.

I used these Simpson Deck Fasteners (http://www.strongtie.com/products/categories/decking_diy.html) (DBT1Z) about 11 years ago on a redwood deck at a friend's house and I'll be darned but it is still doing quite well today. I guess I had half a mind about what I was doing! haha I think the key is a good choice of screw...spend some money on some good ones. I don't recall what I used for this deck but they weren't cheap.

If your deck is low, the Simpson fasteners don't use an attachment from underneath, rather you attach them on the edges of the decking.

[Ryan Sparreboom]

I also built my deck with the Deckmaster system. Love it. Would definitely use it again. The deck is 26' x 12' and 5 yrs old with not a single problem on any of the boards. I also used 5/4 x 6" PT decking.

[alex grams]

I'de love to use the deckmaster on my deck remodel (helped my dad build his deck with them). However, my home deck area where i would want to renovate my deck is going to be about 1' off the ground (if that). What are some options of building a low to the ground deck that is fastened from below?

Also, when I say I 'helped' my dad build his deck, i mean he did the cutting and I crawled around under a deck for longer than I care to remember, screwing things in above my head.

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

well, you might be able to attach it "as you go along" - it's not like you lay out all the deck boards and then crawl under, you should be able to attach them one by one....

[Terry Bigelow]

I'm in the same position as Alex. I have a very low deck and would also like to use hidden fasteners but there seems to be no concensus on which ones work the best. Seems everytime 5 people like one, 3 more shoot it down! Personally, I'll be using Ipe and there is no shortage of options for hidden fastners. Anyone out there put in an Ipe deck with hidden fasteners that really liked the outcome? I'm not too concerned with difficulty or time of install, I just want it to look nice!

[alex grams]

John,
I would have to get a right angle screwdriver just to be able to fit the tool under the deck to screw them in. But secure as i build is probably the only option I can come across for bottom secured decking.

[Chris Padilla]

Alex, Terry...please see my post. The Simpson deck fasteners I used attach to the edge of the decking and require driving a screw in through the edge at an angle.

I think the redwood deck I built over a decade ago is a testament to this system working. Check it out as an option.

[Dave Falkenstein]

I'de love to use the deckmaster on my deck remodel (helped my dad build his deck with them). However, my home deck area where i would want to renovate my deck is going to be about 1' off the ground (if that). What are some options of building a low to the ground deck that is fastened from below?...

I have installed Deckmaster brackets on a couple of decks that were quite close to the ground. You can do most of the work on your knees or climb down into the space between the joists to screw the brackets to the joists and screw the decking to the brackets.

The screws that fasten the brackets to the joists are short and installed horizontally. I install all of the brackets for a section of deck before installing any decking. The screws that fasten the decking to the brackets are a bit longer, and screw in at an angle. Obviously, each row of decking is screwed into place before moving on to the next row of decking. Sometimes the last piece of decking, on the outside of the deck, must be screwed into the joists from the top, since you might not be able to reach under the beam if it is really close to the ground.

I have had no problem using a standard battery-powered drill/driver or impact driver. An impact driver is much easier to use to drive screws - any screws. There is at least the height of the joists between the ground and the top of the joists, providing ample clearance for the driver.

[Jeff Heil]

I did my deck 3 years ago with the EB-ty system. It is 18" off the ground at the ledger board and 36" at the furthest point from the house. I chose the EB-ty due to the limited access from below. I used 5/4 cedar for the decking. The system is designed to be used with a biscuit jointer which I found tedious. I switched to a router with a biscuit slot cutter and ran a slot the length of the boards.

It has held up well in Wisconsin's freeze/thaw cycles. The black hardware isn't overly visible from above. I would use it again. The stainless screws with the kit use a #1 square drive and are similar to trim head screws.

I would hesitate to use with treated lumber that was too wet as the boards could dry out and pull free of the EB-ty clips. Every deck I built with treated i butted them the boards tight and face screwed it. When they dried thay created a gap.

Good luck!

[John Morrison60]

Lincoln
I have used both Deckmaster and EB-Ty.
I built a small deck using EB-Ty and like the result very much. The system itself maintains a good uniform distance between the boards, and has been very secure. Eb-TY is more work to install, with the extra work to cut the slot (I also used a router with slot cutting bit). I do think that I would do it again on a deck though.

I used Deck Master on a set of outside stairs. It worked fine, and was less work, and was still a hidden fastener. I would also use this again, as long as I had working space under the surface.
Both of these constructions involved the use of plastic lumber which can be problematic with their expansion/contraction. So far no problem with either system.

Good luck.
John

[David G Baker]

I used the Simpson deck fasteners that attach to the edge of the decking and require driving a screw in through the edge at an angle like Chris used on his deck. They were great to work with and are sold by a lot of retailers.
I use Simpson or Simpson type fasteners for most of my construction projects and so far the only problem I have had has been with some corrosion caused by very heavily treated wood that was treated with the older chemicals.

[alex grams]

The simpson deck fasteners look nice, but:

1.) it looks like you would see the fasteners when you look down on the deck

2.) Also, it doesn't look like you could do any board arrangements that aren't perpendicular to the frames below the deck. I had looked at wanting to do a herring bone pattern.

[Chris Padilla]

The simpson deck fasteners look nice, but:

1.) it looks like you would see the fasteners when you look down on the deck

2.) Also, it doesn't look like you could do any board arrangements that aren't perpendicular to the frames below the deck. I had looked at wanting to do a herring bone pattern.

Reaching DEEP into the memory banks:

I don't RECALL the fasteners being all that visible. Now I used redwood that was already dried and butted 'em up tight to each other and even after a few years, where additional drying took place, you don't really see the fasteners. One thing to keep in mind, you'll find the fasteners if you go looking for them or you know they are there. 99% of the people staring at your deck will never see them. Maybe this is a big deal, maybe not. :)

Also, the crud that builds up in the joints over time can also help conceal things a bit more. ;)

I don't see why you couldn't do your herringbone pattern. The clips get nailed to one side of the board and are then slipped under the previous board. Then the other side of that board gets toenailed into the joist. They want you to keep the clips as close to a joist as possible for maximum security since that side of the board is relying on the fastening on the previous board to say put.

For the record, the deck I built was your typical perpendicular to the joists layout.

[Lincoln Myers]

Leaning heavily towards the Deckmaster now.

Anyone have a good (read cheap) supplier, online or local? I haven't found many, but any little discount would help.

Thanks,
Linc

[Dave Falkenstein]

Leaning heavily towards the Deckmaster now.

Anyone have a good (read cheap) supplier, online or local? I haven't found many, but any little discount would help.

Thanks,
Linc

Unless things have changed recently, Deckmaster products are the same price everywhere. I have purchased from Rockler (limited selection), a local distributor and directly from Deckmaster, all at the same price.

[Lee Schierer]

I know its not any of the systems you asked about, but I used Tiger Claws from HD to attach the deck boards on my front deck. They work pretty well, but on long boards they can be a bit tricky to get in the way they say to do it. I found it faster to drill pilot holes for the points and use pipe clamps to pull the second board into the first board. The fasteners can be seen looking straight down between the boards, but otherwise are hidden. My deck was done on a diagonal to the joists.http://home.earthlink.net/~us71na/deck1.jpg Only the last board back in the corner has one visible screw holding it down because that is where I ended.

[Allen Olsen]

Lincoln,
I am in the same position now that you were in June. I have joists 12" OC since I am running some 45 degree angles in the decking and have as little as 15" of clearance below the deck. I found the Shadoe Hidden Link system and based on some of the replies to your post found the Simpson DBT1Z. They appear to be variations on one another and both would work for me without laying down in between the joists screwing up.

Which hidden fastener did you decide to use? How did it work out for you?

Thanks

[Lincoln Myers]

Lincoln,
I am in the same position now that you were in June. I have joists 12" OC since I am running some 45 degree angles in the decking and have as little as 15" of clearance below the deck. I found the Shadoe Hidden Link system and based on some of the replies to your post found the Simpson DBT1Z. They appear to be variations on one another and both would work for me without laying down in between the joists screwing up.

Which hidden fastener did you decide to use? How did it work out for you?

Thanks

I used the Deckmaster. Worked out great. I screwed the majority of the screws in from above, leaning down in-between the joists. I used (and loved) the Bosch I-Driver for the task. The articulating head was real nice to use at different angles, sometimes in the straight-line position, depending on the different obstacles and framing/blocking I had in the joists.

See review here:
http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/bidrvu.html

I highly recommend the Deckmaster and the Bosch I-Driver to go along with it.

-Linc