Veneering and yellow glue. Is there any

[Alan Tolchinsky]

reason not to use yellow glue for veneering work? I've use the powdered urea formaldahyde glue and I don't like the mixing or the hazards. Anything wrong with yellow glue? Any other suggestions? Thank you much. Alan in Md.

[Thomas Prondzinski]

Alan
I used Titebond coldpress glue,no mixing,I think you could also use yellow glue. I read on another forum that you should always use urea glue on table tops and burled veneer.Just my thoughts.

Tom

[Todd Burch]

Thomas is right. Yellow glue will creep over time, burl or no burl on a tabletop.

[Don Abele]

I'm getting ready to make a thick veneered (3/8") kitchen table top. So what glue would you recommend? Glad this thread came up, I was going to use Titebond II.

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

Don....plastic resin has replaced the yellow glues for me. I keep a small bottle of yellow around for 'utility' work like gluing a peg or plug, but haven't used it for panels or laminations in quite some time. Too creepy.

KC

[John Miliunas]

Alan, something else to remember with the yellow: It usually doesn't give you a whole lot of open time, so if you're working with larger panels, that could become an issue. :cool:

[jerry cousins]

have had no failures with cold press veneer glue from "joe woodworker" - just saw that lee valley handles a cold press glue too.

have used titebond yellow on small pieces with good success - but would not risk it on a big one - like someone said to much creep.

jerry

[Chris Padilla]

Don....plastic resin has replaced the yellow glues for me. I keep a small bottle of yellow around for 'utility' work like gluing a peg or plug, but haven't used it for panels or laminations in quite some time. Too creepy.

KC
Kirk,

Are you saying just for veneering or for general use in the shop? What plastic resin adhesive do you use?

[Mike Palmer]

PVA and Urea glues have their place in veneering. I have use both with a great deal of success. For PVA's, I use a multi-bond 2025 made by Franklin. It has pecan shells ground up in the glue along with some other additives that gives you minimal bleed through and a little more open time than regular yellow glue. I use this glue for all vertical panels and general veneering.

For horizontal surfaces, burls, and crotches, I would use a urea glue. It has a very rigid bond. It is little more difficult to work with from the stand point of mixing and having adequate temperature in the shop. A big benefit is the open time. Below is a link to a supplier of the powdered urea.

http://www.custompak.com/

[Alan Tolchinsky]

have had no failures with cold press veneer glue from "joe woodworker" - just saw that lee valley handles a cold press glue too.

have used titebond yellow on small pieces with good success - but would not risk it on a big one - like someone said to much creep.

jerry


That's the same glue I'm using. I guess I'll just keep using it but use my respirator when mixing. I wish you could just mix this stuff using volume ratios instead of weight ratios. Man does this stuff set up rock hard. I had some set up in the bottom of a plastic container and it was like granite. Alan

[Alan Tolchinsky]

reason not to use yellow glue for veneering work? I've use the powdered urea formaldahyde glue and I don't like the mixing or the hazards. Anything wrong with yellow glue? Any other suggestions? Thank you much. Alan in Md.

Thanks for all the response guys. I think I'll stay away from yellow glue even though it's handier with no mixing. The problems with creep etc. don't sound good. But it does seem to press well in a vacuum press. Alan

[jerry cousins]

the coldpress i use is not a "mix-it" - liquid in a gallon jug - just pour it out.

jerry

[Hal Flynt]

When I saw the Taunton Press hardcover book special, I ordered a few. One was Techniques.

In it was a section on veneering. It seems that TiteBond II is a thermoplastic glue. The author would brush a couple 10% thinned coats on both the substrate and the veneer (wetting the face side with water) and let dry. Then he would lightly sand off any dust etc. that may have settled. Then he would position the veneer and adjust and iron it on with medium heat. As the glue would melt in it would be secure and bubbles would "click" when the iron pressure was removed and you would just iron until the clicking stopped. Areas that didn't bond could also be detected by wetting the surface and air bubbles would indicate the voids. This was his preferred method with patterns of veneer like book matching and radial pie shaped patterns.

Also it was suggested that a seal coat of shellac would prevent bleed through. I'm going to try that.

[Mike Palmer]

When I saw the Taunton Press hardcover book special, I ordered a few. One was Techniques.

In it was a section on veneering. It seems that TiteBond II is a thermoplastic glue. The author would brush a couple 10% thinned coats on both the substrate and the veneer (wetting the face side with water) and let dry. Then he would lightly sand off any dust etc. that may have settled. Then he would position the veneer and adjust and iron it on with medium heat. As the glue would melt in it would be secure and bubbles would "click" when the iron pressure was removed and you would just iron until the clicking stopped. Areas that didn't bond could also be detected by wetting the surface and air bubbles would indicate the voids. This was his preferred method with patterns of veneer like book matching and radial pie shaped patterns.

Also it was suggested that a seal coat of shellac would prevent bleed through. I'm going to try that.

Hal, I personally believe vacuum pressing or mechanical pressing would give you a better result. I am not sure of the size of piece you are trying to veneer, but if it is much larger than the size of a large book you might experience some problems. Applying glue to the veneer is usually a no-no. The moisture from the glue will make the veneer expand and buckle. Just my two cents FWIW.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Hi Mike, I just wanted to say I like your byline. The "some assembly required" makes me smile every time I read it. Thanks Alan

[Hal Flynt]

Mike,

Thanks for the input and I agree. I will venture into vacuum presses soon. I have a pump that will pull down to almost 30" of mercury. It's the old "round tuit" problem. The thermo method is in the I can do it now category, and it's fun to push the envelope so to speak. The author in the article covered the buckling issue with wetting the face to equilized the "swelling". He also talked about pre-shrinking the veneer with a warm iron before doing anything else at all. It was about a 4 page article with good illustrations and some "tricks" on butting up subsequent pieces of veneer to the ones already there. He used this method primarily for putting multiple pieces together in a pattern rather than laminating the entire panel. I can't really do it justice in a short narrative.

I am of the old school and like hide glue for big pieces and covered both faces in the past to keep flat. Now I just have to figure out what I need to build my press and find a place to put it.

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

Chris...I have essetially replaced yellow glue with DAP Weldwood plastic resin. I use Gorilla for mortise and tenons, but the PR for 99% of everything else. I get it at the local 'Do it Best' hardware store...

KC

[Carl Eyman]

Yeah I know I am shouting, but this thread is something to shout about. I have a repair job to do. It's a walnut veneer table top that I made 30 years ago. Since my work is guaranteed for life (mine) I need to trepair the peeling veneer. I had used Constantine's veneer glue (like contact cement) and over the years there has been some peeling. I tried a test piece this PM using Titebond II on both pieces, letting it dry, and using a hot flat iron to glue it on. IT WORKS. Now maybe tomorrow AM it'l be flapping around, but it is looking good now. Thanks one and all for the tip. Boy, if we paid the administration a fair price for the benefits we get, their taxes would pay for the bill in Iraq - well almost.

[Stan Smith]

Good Morning, Carl. Thanks for the post I was thinking of doing exactly what you just did so am very interested in the outcome. In a book I have on veneering, white glue was mentioned as preferred over yellow glue. I'm very interested in the iron method and just bought a used one at Salvation Army. What setting did you use?

Stan


Yeah I know I am shouting, but this thread is something to shout about. I have a repair job to do. It's a walnut veneer table top that I made 30 years ago. Since my work is guaranteed for life (mine) I need to trepair the peeling veneer. I had used Constantine's veneer glue (like contact cement) and over the years there has been some peeling. I tried a test piece this PM using Titebond II on both pieces, letting it dry, and using a hot flat iron to glue it on. IT WORKS. Now maybe tomorrow AM it'l be flapping around, but it is looking good now. Thanks one and all for the tip. Boy, if we paid the administration a fair price for the benefits we get, their taxes would pay for the bill in Iraq - well almost.

[Carl Eyman]

I turned it up as high as it would go and dampened the back of the veneer. Turned out flat as a pancake. Looked at it this AM and it is still flat. I'll try white glue, too. But I don't know how to evaluate the test other than poking at it and see if it wants to come off. Any ideas?

[Chris Padilla]

Carl, Toss it out in the sun for a while? :)

[Stan Smith]

Carl. Thanks again. I've watched Jerry (the guy with a few posts above) glue a piece with his vacuum press using the liquid urea glue. The vacuum press looked pretty slick from what I could see. However, I'm going to give Titebond a try with some test pieces. I'm planning on cutting my own veneer at around 6/64th's. Does that sound okay for iron use?

Stan

[Doug Littlejohn]

Haven't used it yet, but veneer systems forums reccomend Unibond 800 (I believe that's the #).

They swear by it.

[Hal Flynt]

To test it, put some on some scrap, then see if it's possible. Once bonded, i think you'll be pulling up wood fibers if you can even move it.

[Carl Eyman]

Chris: Good idea. (Keep it in sun for a while) I have had it under the rear window of my hatch back these last 4 or five days. The time is short, but so far the results are good. Someone has said white glue might be better. Any other opinions?