Red Oak ¾ X 4 Flooring Project

[Barry Reade]

I know there have been several threads on flooring but I have had a few questions on my current flooring project in my house and I need a place to document it so I have picked the “Creek”.

Now my project has some different twists to it and I will try and post pictures and explain what is going on in my head and why I did it the way I did. Let me say that I wasn’t raised as a wood worker. Heck, my Dad didn’t like to go out in the shop and if he did he sure didn’t want his son around. So I have been a self made do it your selfer my whole life. I never took wood shop in school but did hang out in the wood shop when they had the summer program for the kids at school.

Anyway last year my wife and I decided that 2008 would be the year we replaced all the carpet on the main floor of the house with Red Oak hardwood (1500/ft). We had done our Florida room (325 ft) with ¾” X 4” Red Oak a couple of years before and it turned out really well (currently used for storage for the other rooms).

http://greyghost.smugmug.com/photos/310187408_ZM4S4-M.jpg



We had gone to Lumber Liquidators (LL)and bought their special cabin grade ( #3 utility grade) for $.99/ ft and were very happy with what we got. Now let me say that we were on a budget and are still on a tight budget to do this job. We went with the 4” width as most people that we talked to in the flooring industry said this is about the widest you can nail/staple down and not have cupping of the wood. Any wider and we would have to screw it down on both sides to prevent cupping. The first batch (325 ft) had 10-15% culls and not to many short boards. The bundles were tight and it wasn’t a problem bringing them up the stairs to the main floor.



When I went and got this next batch of flooring (400 ft) we went to a different LL and were not happy with the wood we got. The second batch had 20-30% culls, mostly real short boards, and the bundles were falling apart (probably from the excessive short boards, so loose that I refused the first shipment that came in). Any way we slogged through it and got the master bedroom and closet done.

http://greyghost.smugmug.com/photos/298719645_deesM-S.jpg


http://greyghost.smugmug.com/photos/298718187_P7uhY-S.jpg

More tomorrow my thumbs hurt.:)

[Pat Germain]

Barry, is this unfinished or prefinished flooring you're installing?

[Barry Reade]

Barry, is this unfinished or prefinished flooring you're installing?
Unfinished. The prefinished was way to expensive for me. It was another $2/ft and for 1500 ft that would be $3K.

[john bateman]

LL's grading is kinda weird, or at least inconsistent. I bought a bunch of their 2-1/4" red oak at about $2.50/sqft. I wasn't real impressed...plenty of dark streaks and some splits... but got about 90% through the project and realized I'd need some more. I specifically asked could I get a band with a lot of short pieces, and the guy said "I'm not gonna have my guy waste his time looking through for shorts!"

So I took what they gave me. It was almost entirely perfect, clear, straight and long boards. Far nicer than anything I'd gotten in the first load. It
seemed a waste to cut up all that nice flooring to fit the remainder of the job.

[jason lambert]

Just a note I have done a copule of floors. I usally will lean towards the 3/16th (i think that is the size) 3" boards if doing a hard wood. You still can refinish them 8-9 times and is just cheaper than 3/4" and you can never tell, so you get a better floor at 3/4 the price. unless you need the thickness because your sub floor is not good but that is another storie. Also you don't usally need to cut doors or deal with raising baseboard heat since it is thinner. Prefinished is alwas better I can not put on as consitant of a finish and it is much harder and usally has a 25 yr warntee from LL. Also they use the better boards on the stuff they finish.

99 sq ft though is a good price.

[Barry Reade]

LL's grading is kinda weird, or at least inconsistent. I bought a bunch of their 2-1/4" red oak at about $2.50/sqft. I wasn't real impressed...plenty of dark streaks and some splits... but got about 90% through the project and realized I'd need some more. I specifically asked could I get a band with a lot of short pieces, and the guy said "I'm not gonna have my guy waste his time looking through for shorts!"

So I took what they gave me. It was almost entirely perfect, clear, straight and long boards. Far nicer than anything I'd gotten in the first load. It
seemed a waste to cut up all that nice flooring to fit the remainder of the job.

I hear you John. If I had it to do over I would have used one of the two industry standard sizes for flooring. either 2 1/4" or 31/4". There is a lot of variances between mills in the quality product they put out and the T&G may not line up as well from one mill to the next. What one mill sells as #3 another might be selling as #2 (I know there are suppose to be standards). There are only three quality grades #1 select, #2 has some knots and minor flaws and #3 which are all culls or real short boards. In the red oak unfinished #1 could go for up to $5/ft and #2 $3/ft. #3 I had prices quoted at almost $2.50/ft.

[Barry Reade]

Just a note I have done a copule of floors. I usally will lean towards the 3/16th (i think that is the size) 3" boards if doing a hard wood. You still can refinish them 8-9 times and is just cheaper than 3/4" and you can never tell, so you get a better floor at 3/4 the price. unless you need the thickness because your sub floor is not good but that is another storie. Also you don't usally need to cut doors or deal with raising baseboard heat since it is thinner. Prefinished is alwas better I can not put on as consitant of a finish and it is much harder and usally has a 25 yr warntee from LL. Also they use the better boards on the stuff they finish.

99 sq ft though is a good price.
Jason, all great points but all but the 3/8's runs up the price so it would be cost prohibitive to do the project. On the other hand I have been really pleased with the finish on the wood. I have been using the orange borg's PRO water based urethane flooring finish at $40/gal. I know there is $80+/gal stuff out there that will be harder finish sooner but again I am on a tight budget. I am going to see how much the hardener is for the PRO finish.

[Barry Reade]

Back to the master bedroom and closet. I had to purchase tools this time because this project would be considerably longer and I could borrow and rent for a project this size. First I purchased a Bostick pneumatic floor stapler like I had borrowed from my friend for the Florida room.

http://greyghost.smugmug.com/photos/298710758_DFUyi-S.jpg



I tried to get one off Ebay but is was one of those times when there weren’t any for sale. I ended up paying almost full price but it has functioned flawlessly to date. It takes out minor warpage really well and for the more difficult warps I screw a block into the omb as a fulcrum and use a crowbar to stress it straight and then staple it.

When we pulled up part of the carpet to bring in the wood and start acclimating it to the room there was the dreaded “OMB”.

http://greyghost.smugmug.com/photos/298710106_srtZQ-S.jpg



I cruised the internet and called and talked to many folks and it was divided over whether omb would be an acceptable subfloor for putting down a hardwood floor. All the wood manufacturers said that omb was ok but not particle board. Anyway, did I say we were on a budget? So we decided to use the omb. After we got all the staples up from the carpet pad, the wood spike strips for holding the carpet stretched, the bent nails removed, and the squeaks taken care of. We used deck screws to tie in the subfloor so the squeaks would stop. Any nails that were backing out I replaced with screws also. This really tightened up the floor. There was some misalignment at the joints of the omb so I used a belt sander to smooth out the step ridges and get the subfloor prepared for laying the red oak flooring. I did not try and make the subfloor perfectly level. I Talked to professionals and queried manufacturers and they all said it didn’t have to be exact it just needed not to have any steps between the sheets of subflooring.

I remembered that the first row of flooring could not be stapled down to I used a 3/8” forstner bit and drilled holes half way through the boards and screwed them down and then made 3/8” dowel plugs from some of the red wood scraps and glued them in. I used a hand jam saw to trim off the excess plugs. If you look close in this next picture at the last three rows on your right you can see the plugs covering the screws that tied down the last three rows that I couldn’t use the stapler on.

http://greyghost.smugmug.com/photos/298711870_ToRsd-S.jpg
More to follow:)

[Mark Hulette]

Barry-
Thanks for the photo documentation! I'm getting ready to do about 750 sq ft of 3/4 flooring myself next week :eek:

I especially like the idea of using the scrap to make plugs for the first row screws!

Please keep us posted!!