Help tensioning Suffolk/Timberwolf bands

[Chris Neville]

OK - I read the "6 Rules of Sawing" and I can't get the flutter test to work (I don't see the flutter).

Let me back up... I have a new Grizzly 513X2 and 5 blades. I tensioned the 1/2" blade that came with the saw and it cut perfectly. In fact, the set up was great right out of the crate. I set the tension to about 2.5 on the front scale and the band had zero drift. All I had to do was adjust the guide bearings.

My new blades arrived today and I wanted to try out the 3/4" - 2/3 for resawing. The blade change out went very smoothly - not much to it at all.

I installed the blade and set the tension on 4. The blade cut straight and resawed straight.

I then performed the flutter test - got nothing out of that. So, I set the tension at 2.5 - and everything cut well there as well.

Here is the question - I know there is an optimum tension for each blade. Using too much or too little tension will decrease the life of the blade... so, although I am having acceptable results, I don't want it to be at the expense of shortening the life of the blades.

Can anyone with this model bandsaw give me a clue as to what you set your tension to for similar blades. I just want to know if I am in the ballpark with my blades. On similar saws, with similar bands, we should be able to set up a matrix that can be shared (might not be 100% accurate - but it would be darn close).

Thanks

Chris

[Barry Reade]

Chris, I will be monitoring your thread as I am still setting up my 0514X2 and am interested in your findings. I got my five TW blades today.

[Greg Cole]

Chris,
IIRC I've got my 513X2 with 3/4" woodslicer set in the 4+ range.... I honestly haven't spent much time in the shop lately (been building a fence and outdoor stuff) but I'm pretty sure it's about 4 1/2 on the factory gauge.
I've had great luck with this set up for mine. I don't have much for drift and the current blade has been on since @ December last year & seen a fair amount of walnut, mahogony & maple.
The only drift I've had was an operator error having my BIL cut some curly maple veneer.... when he asked if he should have kept the top of the board against the fence, I had a difficult time answering him "politely".;)

Cheers.
Greg

[harry boyer]

I got my 513x2 a couple of weeks ago. Have cut tons of mahogany so far without a real problem. I couldn't imagine a flutter if I fell into one. We set the gage at 4.5 and right from the start got great results. I am careful that the blade is right on sq. to the table. I joint the board on the edge and the flat side and plane it a bit. My thinking was getting the material square to the fence and blade would elimanate alot of problems. I get worried abt. going too fast since i don't want to wear out the blade.

[Don Inghram]

I have a Grizz 14" and use Timberwolf blades almost exclusively. I've never been able to get them to flutter either. I just set the tension a turn or three less than the gauge on the saw calls for and have at it. I complicated this endlessly until I just got tired of trying to figure it out and started cutting wood. Excellent results with no drift. Don't know what more you could ask for. Many different cuts, resaw, curves you name it. Many types of woods also. I think I overthink things a lot. LOL

[John Keeton]

I have the 513X2 as well, and the flutter system works well with the smaller blades, but on my 3/4" TW resaw blade I couldn't get any flutter on that blade either. I just kind of went with a deflection test and set mine at about 4.5 simply because it "felt right" and cut well on a couple of test cuts.

[Wilbur Pan]

I installed the blade and set the tension on 4. The blade cut straight and resawed straight.

That right there is your test. If your blade can do this, don't worry about the flutter test.

The range of tensions for a bandsaw blade is pretty wide in most cases. In fact, it's so wide that it's not worth the time to find the "optimal" setting. If you are worried about blade life, your blade probably will end its useful life by going dull rather than breaking, assuming you're not using an extremely high tension.

By the way, I've got the same 3/4" - 2/3 tpi blade. It completely rocks.

[Gary Lee]

I have MM E16 and the tension gage on this is about useless. I just use the push test. The Wood Whisperer had it in one of his podcasts. Set the top guide about 6" above the table and give a firm push, as if you were trying to gently knock someone off balance. Look for about 1/4" of deflextion. Simple, works for me.

[Ron Dunn]

This flutter test seems to be the biggest cause of bandsaw problems - far too slack, in my opinion.

[jim oakes]

So I guess I'd have a hard time selling a tension gauge to anyone posting.
I agree, if you get the cut you want with a simple, fast set-up go for it!

[Pat Germain]

This flutter test seems to be the biggest cause of bandsaw problems - far too slack, in my opinion.

What problems would those be? Does running less tension tend to create more drift?

I'm wondering this because I set the blades on my 513X2 using the flutter test and do get drift. Perhaps I should tighten them up a little.

I'm wondering why Suffolk Machinery would recommend using the flutter method if it really doesn't work very well. I can get all of my blades to flutter; even the 1" 1-TPI. Although, I usuallly go just a little more snug than "just beyond flutter".

[Ron Dunn]

I'm not Mark Duginske, so I'll probably get slapped around the head by an expert ... but my experience is that bandsaw blades should be TAUT.

I can saw straight when I apply strong tension to the blade. Loosen off the tension and I get bowed cuts (ie, not completely perpendicular the table), and the cut starts to drift. Re-apply tension and the problem goes away.

I think the "ping" test is closer to how a blade should be tensioned, but I've never been able to get anyone to explain the note at which the blade should ping, nor how this varies from machine to machine.

My saw is an Inca. I tighten the blade to somewhere between 3.5 and 4.5 on its scale and everything works perfectly. I slacken off the tension once I've finished cutting.

To me, flutter means vibration, and that is something to avoid. Try your own experiment and note the difference.

[Pat Germain]

To me, flutter means vibration, and that is something to avoid. Try your own experiment and note the difference.

Ron, the "flutter method" people are describing is what's recommended by Suffolk and Grizzly. With this method, you back off all the guides, turn on the saw and loosen the tension until it starts to flutter. Then you slowly increase the tension until the fluttering stops. Finally, you add 1/4 turn more of tension.

According to the manufacturer, Timberwolf blades are supposed to be run with low tension. I'm not sure why this is.

[Wilbur Pan]

To me, flutter means vibration, and that is something to avoid. Try your own experiment and note the difference.

Just to be clear, the flutter test doesn't mean that the blade flutters as you use it. In the flutter test, the blade is detensioned as it runs without guides until it starts fluttering. Then you increase the tension until the fluttering stops, at which point the blade is under just enough tension to keep it running true. Then you add a little more tension. This is the least amount of tension to keep the blade running straight.

[I have to learn to type faster. ;) ]

[Ron Dunn]

Wilbur, thank you for clarifying the meaning of the test.

I still don't see it as a reliable method. Unless saws had the same tension of spring and the same thread pitch on the tension screw, you'd end up with completely different results on different models of saw.

I'm convinced that a lot of the problems we are seeing reported by users of bandsaws are the result of this method, whether correctly applied or not. That's why I'm encouraging users to experiment with a higher tension.

My feeling is that saw blades need to be in tension to work correctly, be it bandsaw or not. Try the same experiment with a bow saw, a frame saw or a hacksaw and I think you'll see what I mean.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

According to the manufacturer, Timberwolf blades are supposed to be run with low tension. I'm not sure why this is.

Pat,

According to Suffolk's site they use a low tension, high ductile silicon steel. I would assume because it's a softer steel, it requires less tension and the life is extended as a result.

[Peter Quadarella]

It sounds like I've been tensioning a lot higher than most of you. I also have the 3/4" TW blade and a 513X2. I usually pump it up past 5 on that blade. On the smaller blades, like 1/4" I'll do 3-4. I haven't experienced any drift. I'd rather wear my blade out than ruin the wood I'm cutting with drift, and I haven't heard of any cutting problems when cutting with a too tight blade (within reason). I usually just push the blade with my finger to see how much it flexes.

[glenn bradley]

OK - I read the "6 Rules of Sawing" and I can't get the flutter test to work (I don't see the flutter).

Do you have the guides completely clear of the blade while trying to find the flutter tension? I run several TW blades. My 3/4" 2-3T runs at about 4.5. It flutters at about 4.

[Greg Cole]

I usually pump it up past 5 on that blade.
Double checked last night... I have mine dead on 5 on the 0513X2 with 3/4" Woodslicer.

Greg

[Chris Neville]

Do you have the guides completely clear of the blade while trying to find the flutter tension? I run several TW blades. My 3/4" 2-3T runs at about 4.5. It flutters at about 4.


First... thanks to everyone who has weighed in on this topic.

I do have the guides clear of the blade. Maybe I just don't understand what the flutter looks like. When I think of flutter, I picture the blade wiggling side to side at a very high rate... I couldn't get that to happen on my 3/4" 2-3T and I ran the tension down to where the blade almost ran off the wheels and at best saw a slight "drift" of the blade from left to right - it was a very slow movement... not what I would describe as flutter.

Also, the tension wheel on my 513x2 tightens pretty easily up to just shy of 4.0. Then it gets very difficult to turn - I'm guessing that this is normal. I worry about cranking too hard because on my previous (and admittedly cheaper) bandsaw, when I increased tension too much, I could actually pull/tilt the upper wheel out of planer alignment with the lower wheel. This is probably not going to happen on the larger cast iron Grizzly, but I'd like to hear what others have experienced.

Thanks
Chris

[Curt Harms]

I was running the T'wolf 3/4". Needed to resaw a small piece of oak. Fired it up at the end of a day, made the cut-good as usual-then discovered the blade tension lever was in the detensioned position, and I use the saw tension gauge when the lever is in the tensioned position. So my conclusion is that T'wolf blades truly do not require much tension:o.


Curt

[Paul Johnstone]

I was running the T'wolf 3/4". Needed to resaw a small piece of oak. Fired it up at the end of a day, made the cut-good as usual-then discovered the blade tension lever was in the detensioned position, and I use the saw tension gauge when the lever is in the tensioned position. So my conclusion is that T'wolf blades truly do not require much tension:o.


Curt

Wow.. no offense, but you probably have the tension way too high when you have the lever in "tensioned mode".. I accidently turned on my Rikon with it detensioned and the blade would not spin (not enough tension), although I was using either a 1/2" or 5/8" blade (can't remember).

I have the 18" Rikon, don't recall the model number, but when I use the detension lever, it goes down quite a bit..

[Wilbur Pan]

I still don't see it as a reliable method. Unless saws had the same tension of spring and the same thread pitch on the tension screw, you'd end up with completely different results on different models of saw.

Which is true, but as I said above, the range of useable tensions for cutting wood on a bandsaw is pretty wide. The flutter test is supposed to get you to the lowest tension needed to avoid flutter, which should be just enough tension to get the blade to perform as expected. Given the wide range of useable tensions, another 1/2 turn or so on the tension wheel won't matter much, and more importantly, will avoid overtensioning a blade.