A photo essay of Arts & Crafts legs (10 pics added)

[Walt Caza]

Good Day to the Creek,
Here is a photo essay of Arts & Crafts legs, 1pc, 2pc, 3pc, 4pc and 5pc.

pics are:
Limbert and Stickley in the sunshine ---1pc legs with 2 sides radial and the other 2 icky plainsawn
2pc mitered leg bottom---2 visible sides of pretty rays
2pc leg corner view -no putty, no filler
2pc leg full view
3pc leg bottom *lessons learned moving forward...next time try thinner, less visible veneers!

[Walt Caza]

pics are:
3pc leg up close
3pc table leg full view
4pc leg top view **2pc core to show rays outward, capped by 1/4" veneers, concealed with 1/4" chamfers
4pc leg on chest
4pc leg chest on lawn -plenty of glare off that satin topcoat, bookmatches all the way around

[Dewey Torres]

Thanks for the pics Walt!
Dewey

[Walt Caza]

pics are:
glue-y leg stubs with easy to see layers
tidy ends stubs
end stubs with pencil lines
5pc quadrilinear leg end view ***tight & tidy seams and solid core to facilitate through mortises (way over my head)
5pc Stickley .....coming attractions

the math on the 5pc:
4pcs with 45 degree bevels + core = ray fleck on all sides!

Thanks for looking at my real summer project... a study in legs!
(see, I don't always have to talk sooo much)
take it easy,
Walt *****10 more pics added below*****
:)

[Thomas Bennett]

I must say, I have been a professional cabinetmaker for 30 years now. I enjoyed the photo essay and learned a lot. I never considered glueing up stock to show off the flake in the white oak. Good job!

[Ron Dunn]

GREAT post. Really shows the options for this technique. Thank you.

[Clifford Mescher]

Real nice work. Good details. Clifford

[Walt Caza]

Thanks for your kind words guys,
In light of the group build, perhaps more 5pc pics might be helpful
to consider when building our Morris chairs.

pics are:
the razor's edge (try not to bleed)
blue hinges?
that ought'ta hold it! (borderline clamp gloat)
dry fit wrap-up
yellow nightmare (do the hustle!) [note the core laying on there...slippery devil...]

[Walt Caza]

pics are:
making mudpies ---messy squeezeout
shot through the legs (keen eyes may catch the dot..it is parafin...I have started lubing h.m.chisel with wax !) I cringe if it squeaks
robust library table ends just relaxing in the shop
pair of quads ---quadrilinear legs plus core
shop IN pile and OUT pile !! (the IN pile -in left back- is shrinking)

I am eager to see these first-try legs after finishing...
thanks for looking,
Walt
:)

[Randy Klein]

Should you be concerned that the solid wood core add-in might expand and/or contract and ruin the leg?

[Don Bullock]

Walt,
This is the kind of post that makes this place such a fantastic forum. Your "pictures are definitely worth a thousand words." I've seen some of the techniques before, but your pictures show a much wider variety of methods than I've seen before on one place. The LOML just put in an order Sunday for a Arts & Crafts/Mission style headboard. Your ideas will come in very handy as I design it. Thanks for posting.

2 1/2 working days left and counting down!!!! :D:D:D:D

[Art Mulder]

Walt, very nice job on this tutorial/essay. Lots of good info here!

You seem to be focusing on the 5pc leg (4 pieces ripped with 45degree edges plus solid core) for your future work. At least, that is what I'm reading in your comments above.

My question then is this: what does the 5pc give you that the 3 pc doesn't? To me I cringe when I see that 5pc leg. Not because it doesn't look good -- it does. No, I cringe because to me it looks like a huge headache to actually assemble. Everything would need to be absolutely perfect for all 5 pieces to go together correctly, plus the finicky assembly time, plus the actual gluing itself as you illustrate.

It seem to me that the 3 piece glue up -- using a thinner veneer than you did, as you also suggested in your comments -- would go together much easier. It would still be solid all the way through (which supports mortising), and it would still have 4 good sides for viewing.

Yes, you'll need a small chamfer at the corners, but I'd want that anyway, even on the 5 pc unit. A razor edge like that won't last from daily use, so it'll chamfer itself over time (via splintering) if I don't soften it myself in the shop.

So why is the 5pc preferred? (I'm not just "picking" on Walt, anyone else feel free to comment.)

...art

ps: Does your wife know you have this obsession over perfect legs? ;):D

[Walt Caza]

Hi again,
Yes Randy, I am concerned about alot of things...
many have been built that way for over 100 yrs.
The Quartersawn grain, is more stable than plain. (cheap rhyme...sorry)
I will be glad to let you know in a hundred years!

Thanks Don, you're very kind. (now get to work on that headboard!!)

Yes Art, I am focused on the 5pc leg as another option for our Morris chair group build. (see the projects forum)

I can only answer for me, but the 5pc:
-offers invisible seams, vs the somewhat visible seams on a thin veneer job--some are conspicuous (zero edge grain vs some edge grain)

-authentic Stickley detail

-the razor edge was referring to the difficulty of handling those sharp pieces pre-assembly. It is hard not to hurt the oak or the flesh!
I just wanted to share about the sharp with those who may never try it. All edges are eased for the final project, of course. (after glue-up)
Furthermore, many wood finishes 'don't like' a razor edge...

-the fact that it is difficult to execute tight and tidy legs by this method, provides an excellent challenge.
My dearly departed Mimi would say, 'it seperates the men from the boys'.
As you suggested, this approach is unforgiving.

-I am a student of wood and appreciate all methods and the endless possibilities. I was curious if I could pull it off??
I told myself going in with trepidation...that I would scrap them before I used any filler...or putty
(sorta like Napolean burning his boats on the shore before battle, win or die tryin')hehe

I don't feel picked on at all, I am glad to kick the subject around a bit.
And hey, many times the thin veneers might be 'good enough'.
But with spendy material like the QSWO, I strive to do my best, and get better.

I guess bottom line, I feel the 5pc superior...your mileage may vary...
After all, I only do this for my love of tools and wood.
on we roll,
Walt
:)

[Mike Goetzke]

Walt - I was wondering how you cut the four leg pieces with bevels on both sides. Did you make any special TS jigs?

BTW - nice work!

Thanks,

Mike

[John Eaton]

I've seen some L&G Stickely furniture that used an interlocking joint for the 4 sides - it removed the need for the center axis piece and was very strong - I'll look around and see if I can fine find the photo to scan (it's from a book I have somewhere).

-- John

[Don Bullock]

...
Thanks Don, you're very kind. (now get to work on that headboard!!)

...
Walt
:)

I will as soon as my new shop/garage is built. Right now it's an empty dirt space at the end of our new house. My current garage/shop is being used as a "staging area" for the pending move.:(

[Dave MacArthur]

great post, very informative--thanks!

[Scott Vigder]

Walt, thanks for the pictorial.

Our living room and dining room are Stickley pieces through and through, and I would not hesitate to place your work along side any of it.

Or shall I call you Gustav?

[George Bregar]

Walt, great work. I make a lot of A&C stuff, and for my recent Morris Chair I decided not to do the "three piece" leg but to use a lock miter joint as opposed to a simple (yeah, simple :)) miter. Since I wasn't doing a through tenon on the arm I didn't add the center filler, although I did end up plugging the bottom. This joint really simplifies glue up as the pieces lock as opposed to slide. Also increases glue surface which should also provide a stronger joint.

This thread talks about some techniques and issues if you are interested
http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=73122&highlight=morris+chair

Oh, and a pic.

[Mike Keers]

Hey guys,
A little late to the party, but I have something to add to this great pictorial and discussion I hope. I make a lot of A&C furniture, mostly on commission, or speculative stuff for shows and galleries 'inspired by' Movement furniture, so 'to the style'.

Lately there's been a run on A&C beds, so I've had the chance to try out various leg methods. The beds were either 'to the style', or my last commission was for a Harvey Ellis designed bed for Stickley that was never commercially produced, but shown in their early catalog (1905~), and two matching nightstands that were produced. Fortunately I had the actual shop drawings for both from Robert Lang's books 'Shop drawings for Craftsman Furniture" and "More Shop Drawings for Craftsman Furniture". I highly recommend both books to any fans of the style (no connection or interest of course).

Most of what has been shown or discussed here on glued-up legs is covered in the second book. I have tried pretty much every method over the years, the 'thick veneer' glued on two faces, stepped rabbeted legs, the plain miter, the drawer lock just shown above, and splined mitered legs, both solid core and hollow. I've never really been that thrilled with most of the methods for one reason or another. Lang shows a joint called the Stickley 'Quadralinear' joint, a stepped interlocking miter.

Altho I didn't follow it quite the same as Lang illustrated, he led me to the rather simple 'stepped miter' for lack of a better term, shown here. The advantage to this joint IMO is that it helps with what I have always held against plain miters, and why Walt is a braver man than I--the trouble of trying to keep all the miters from sliding all around, which led in my case to the next evolutionary step, the splined miter.

Anyway, I found this a bit less fussy than the drawer lock miter to set up and execute, but a few extra steps to arrive at the finished product, and with bowed leg stock, I had to use a rabbet plane here or there to clean up the corner where the step is. But it went together with no tape and no drama.

Just another gear in das werks.
mike

[Don Bullock]

George & Mike,
Thanks for the extra ideas. They're helpful.:D

[George Bregar]

Anyway, I found this a bit less fussy than the drawer lock miter to set up and execute, but a few extra steps to arrive at the finished product, and with bowed leg stock, I had to use a rabbet plane here or there to clean up the corner where the step is. But it went together with no tape and no drama. mike Hey Mike, some comments and a question. I'm not sure what you found "fussy" in the lock miter joint, set up is pretty straight forward. This is much different than using if as a drawer joint where you are cutting end grain and distance from the fence etc is critcal. Just put the "lock" portion of the bit in the approximate center of the stock, make the fence just ahair shy of the edge, done...they will match perfectly. The key with it, as I'm guessing with your "stepped miter" is making the stock both very flat and the same thickness and width. So start with good stock and use special care on the joining/planing, then featherboards when ripping. I also would make a few extra blanks, because it is difficult to reproduce a set up if you mess up.

The question regarding your method, what are the steps? Because you have some very critical cuts...the length of that 45 must match before the "step". Actually, in the photo you posted they do not match, so the need to work the edge is required. Seems that set up would be fussy, so curious how you did it.

Thanks!

[Mike Keers]

Well, you hit on what I found to be problematic with the drawer lock miter, my stock had bowed and/or crooked a bit after getting out the blanks. The bowing could be overcome, but the crooks were the issue. I had real problems getting the joint right, but granted it was in the stock and not the joint method. This was in some very special QS walnut for a special project, and I just didn't have enough wood to abandon the less than perfectly straight stuff. I'll give it another shot when I have the time, it always seemed to be a very neat method. Do you remove some of the wood with an angled (miter) cut on the table saw first, or just hog it all out with the router-shaper bit, in several passes (or one big one)?

The joint illustrated here was one of my setup joints, I just snapped the pic while working it all out to share with a friend, and agreed, it wasn't quite perfect--sharp eyes! :D The finished legs came out great, the headboard legs were 54" long and the footboard 42" IIRC.

To do the joint, note that the piece with the the step is thicker. The leg pictured finished out at 2-7/8" square, and the thicker sides were a fat 1", the regular mitered sides 3/4". You simply layout the joint carefully for whatever wood you have, then make two shallow cuts, 1/4" deep and set in 3/4" in this case on the back side of the thicker pieces, then the miter is cut on the TS to meet the bottom of the little dado. Getting the blade to meet servicabley was the trick. Yeah, it was fussy, but hey, it was a medical experiment! :p

The true Stickley Quardalinear joint, which Lang assumes was done with a custom shaper cutter in one pass, has all four leg pieces cut identically, with one edge cut as mine, the second edge has a rabbeted miter, so the four pieces lock together in a sort of pin wheel fashion. That joint is done the same way, except the initial shallow dados are offset. One miter is cut shallow to the dado like mine, then the setup is reversed and the other side cut with the board flipped over, removing and entire miter but leaving the rabbet. See sketch.

The attached sketch is from Robert Lang's 'More Shop Drawings For Craftsman Furniture". If this presents any fair use violation, the mods can remove it.

[George Bregar]

Thanks for the reply Mike. To answer your question, I removed some stock first but used my bandsaw, easier since I have a right tilt table saw and don't like that lil waste wedge flying back at the speed of light :eek:. Then just ran the blank through the router table in one pass each for the horizontal and matching vertical cuts. You still are hogging out a lot of material since you have to accomodate the "pin". One pass is doable, just adjust speed and feed rate accordingly.

[Walt Caza]

Hello again,
Thanks to Dave and Scott for such kind words.
Really I am just getting started with my furniture making...

Thanks George and Mike for the pics and link.
The pics you added to this thread, are precisely what I had hope for...

I requested those pics of the lock miter and Leopold Stickley's original 4pc quadrilinear shaper profile, and now we have them!
For those trying to follow along, my request was made in the group build thread in the project forum.

Also, Creeker Bob Lang's variation on Leo's leg, which Mike has varied and coined "the stepped miter" is a nice approach,
which curiously uses material in two thicknesses.

As an added bonus, also at my request, Mark Singer has included a link to his 3pc infill in the group build thread as well.
I know there is nothing new under the sun, but maybe we could coin this one the 'Singer infill leg'?
It is just so clever, and provides a girthy stable leg with appealing grain on all four sides, plus invisible seams.....he hit the leg trifecta!!

Also, I was about to attempt the Singer infill from memory. I would have
probably milled the bevel-sided dado after the cores were glued-up.
The nifty distinction, now that I have reread Mark's old post, is that the
joint is more readily accomplished with just a pair of rips on each core before assembly. (2 rips per joint, 4 per core,8 per leg)
This eliminates the chore of swapping the dado stack in and back out of
the tablesaw, and saves multiple passes . Thanks Mark.

In my next shop time, I plan to experiment with the infill.
I am unsure if I could add Mark's pic to this thread to have all these
leg options together. (can you re-post someone else's pic?? getting into a weird area)
I guess I will make my own, in homage to his, and post my work to this
thread down the road.
Thanks for all the input, take it easy,
Walt
:)

[Jacob Reverb]

Great post Walt, that's some real nice looking work you've done. Thanks for posting up!

[Mike Keers]

I guess I don't have to apologize for the thread drift then! :) After the last exchange I remembered I had a sample of a splined miter, and thought that the pictorial wouldn't be complete without that, so I'll offer that up here.

You mention there's nothing new under the sun, which for most of what we here enjoy doing as regards woodworking is most likely accurate. And the corollary to that is that there are often many ways to accomplish the same thing. However, I don't think there's any one person that knows it all, I sure don't. Having forums like these to share is an incredible boon to the general knowledge base of the entire hobby-industry-whatever.

I have a personal motto and that's that if I can't learn something new every single day, there's no point in getting out of bed. I try hard to learn something every day, even if it's just some little trick or tip, and I also try to pass on what I know in the hope it might lead somebody else to new knowledge. Your leg technique might encourage me to attempt the simple miter again--I never did have much luck, but I never used tape and I owned far fewer clamps back then. :p And the same for the drawer lock miter, I tried it once or twice and it didn't work out that well. But again, I think I'll revisit it.

On to the attached pic, this is yet another offcut from a previous project, this leg was 3" square, the oak stock 7/8" thick. The splines are 1/8" Baltic Birch ripped to 1/2" width. The slots in the leg pieces are just a tiny bit deeper to allow for the glue, as can be seen by the gaps. These were added for the alignment benefit rather than added strength, tho I imagine they do add some strength. These particular legs had solid coring all the way thru, alder about 1-1/4"~ square.

I guess of all the methods I've tried, I had the most success for the time spent with the splined miter. But then I ain't done it all yet either! :D

[Bruce Benjamin]

The true Stickley Quardalinear joint, which Lang assumes was done with a custom shaper cutter in one pass, has all four leg pieces cut identically, with one edge cut as mine, the second edge has a rabbeted miter, so the four pieces lock together in a sort of pin wheel fashion. That joint is done the same way, except the initial shallow dados are offset. One miter is cut shallow to the dado like mine, then the setup is reversed and the other side cut with the board flipped over, removing and entire miter but leaving the rabbet. See sketch.

The attached sketch is from Robert Lang's 'More Shop Drawings For Craftsman Furniture". If this presents any fair use violation, the mods can remove it.

Here's a bit set from Infinity that they call the, "Laped Miter Joint".

http://www.infinitytools.com/images/1447.jpg

http://www.infinitytools.com/products.asp?dept=1447

You'd have to do this in two steps, (Obviously) so the setup might be a little more tricky but it sure looks like, "The true Stickley Quadralinear joint". I just came across this bit set yesterday and then I see the joint duplicated in this thread today. So here's one way to make it.

I'm trying to decide which method is easier to use to make these legs. The lock miter joint looks pretty straight forward but so does this. One thing I'm concerned with is keeping the stock perfectly positioned as it pushes over the router bit. The second pass with either bit seems to be more difficult because there isn't a lot of flat side left to ride against the fence or the table. I'm wondering which is easier to use, the lock miter bit or the lapped miter bit set. The obvious disadvantage with the lapped miter bit set is that you have to do two different bit setups, and it costs more. Also, the lapped miter bit set has a max stock thickness of 3/4". The various lock miter bits have a max stock thickness of about 1 1/8" I believe. It looks to me like the lock miter bit is possibly easier for the reasons I just listed but I'm wondering what the lapped miter bit set would be like in practice. It looks like the lapped miter bit set has the stock riding on the table inside face down for both bits. That might make it easier to guide the stock along the bit. Hmmm...Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Bruce

[Jim Becker]

That's an interesting cutter set, Bruce. Thanks for posting about it!

[George Bregar]

Bruce, I think you hit the pros and cons between the lock miter and this new "lapped miter" bits. Being a "lock miter" guy, the set up is a no brainer, the tricky part is running the blanks through...more specifically running it through on the second cut. I posted this before, but questions have come up to me that were addressed here, so I'll post this again:

http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=73122&highlight=morris+chair

Pretty much talks about challenges of the lock miter and what I did to make life easier.

BTW, do I qualify for the group build for a MC that was complete prior to the thread being posted? :rolleyes: My chair will be back from the upholster in a couple weeks. :D

[Mike Keers]

I'll second the thanx for posting about that cutter set, most interesting. I might look into that.

George, thanks for the link to the chair thread, being new here that one escaped me. And I see I wasn't the only one that had some problems with the drawer lock joint, but I'm going to give it another try. On the flat I didn't have any problem, but doing the second edge upright presented the problem-perhaps doing the edge with the board vertical first might help with that, at least you could apply more pressure downward to compensate for any slight crook, which presented more of a problem than bowing in the stock.