Router bits are burning terrible!?!?

[Greg Magone]

OK, I'll try this again. I posted a similiar question but I had some misinformation.

I have some brand new carbide tip router bits that burn on me every time I try to cross cut (route across the grain) on either softwood or hardwood and a little bit when I rip (route the same direction as the grain) in hardwood.

I have used Freud router bits and experienced little to no burning. But I would assume that all carbide router bits work the same? The ones I am using now are Ryobi branded.

Is there anything that I can do to avoid the burning? I have a single speed Porter Cable 690 router, which should be a darn good one!

Thanks

[scott spencer]

There's no reason to assume that all carbide bits work the same. Freud are some of the best, Ryobi's bits are entry level. Carbide quality varies alot, as does the sharpening level of the carbide, the way the profiles are pitched, the balance of the bodies varies, and even the bearings vary. Some additional "best bits" are from Whiteside, Eagle America, Infinity, CMT. I typically choose Holbren, MLCS, or Woodcraft when less expensive are appropriate.

The PC690 is a well respected basic router, and probably isn't the culprit. Moving the router too slow across the piece can contribute to burning, so keeping it moving and keep the bits clean. You can also make more than one pass...remove the bulk of the material then take just a bit more to clean it up. Some woods are just more prone to burning than others...walnut, maple, and cherry burn fairly easily.....oak, ash, and mahogany not as much.

[pat warner]

Depth of cut = ?
Cutter specs =?
Material = ?

[Steve Flavin001]

of cut. You say it works well with a Freud cutter - try the identical situation that burns with the other bit with the Freud bit. If it works well, there's your answer - particulaly as Scott says, perhaps generously, Ryobi is entry level.

[Dave Falkenstein]

...Is there anything that I can do to avoid the burning?...

Buy better quality router bits. I like Whiteside. Freud is also a very fine brand. Several others, but not Ryobi.

[Lee Schierer]

I think everyone goes through the same experience with router bits, Why pay $20 for the same profile you can get for $10. Well, you'll soon learn that generally speaking the more exppensive bit will cut without burning so you spend less time cleaning up the cut. I agree with the Frued bits. Most of my router bits are red now. The plain steel colored, yellow ones and the blue ones I've purchased burnt the first time they were used and don't see as much use.

You can sometimes get better cuts with the lower grade bits by making very shallow cuts and moving at a fairly high rate of speed along the cut. You end up making lots of passes instead of spending time sanding.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Maybe they are English and turn the wrong way?
Check the grind did they do it right~?

[David DeCristoforo]

"Maybe they are English and turn the wrong way?"

And they have Whitworth shanks so they don't stay in the collets.....

[Greg Magone]

"Maybe they are English and turn the wrong way?"

And they have Whitworth shanks so they don't stay in the collets.....

Are these funny suggestions or ones designed to be helpful in solving my problem? I'm hoping that you're here to sincerely help others out and not simply crack jokes.....

The bits are not English and they are turning the right way. I have thought about resharpening them in case the edge is not as sharp as it could be - I saw some information on sharpening router bits but haven't wanted to break out files just yet. Anyone try sharpening router bits?

[Prashun Patel]

I had a bad experience with a Ryobi bit. It was USED. The previous customer had carefully sliced the paper that prevented the plastic compartment from opening, used the bit, tried to CLEAN the bit, then put it back. I guess the returns people @ BORG didn't realize and restocked it. I didn't realize and bought it.

I returned the bit, didn't make a fuss, and they took it without any questions. That's when I realized I should probably not buy too many critical things @ BORG.

[Lee Schierer]

Are these funny suggestions or ones designed to be helpful in solving my problem? I'm hoping that you're here to sincerely help others out and not simply crack jokes.....

The bits are not English and they are turning the right way. I have thought about resharpening them in case the edge is not as sharp as it could be - I saw some information on sharpening router bits but haven't wanted to break out files just yet. Anyone try sharpening router bits?


I used to sharpen my high speed steel bits with a ceramic stone. My Dad had a jig for sharpening router bits using the router. It didn't work all that well. I've not seen anything on sharpening carbide bits. A file won't cut them.

[Peter Quinn]

Are these funny suggestions or ones designed to be helpful in solving my problem? I'm hoping that you're here to sincerely help others out and not simply crack jokes.....


There is nothing funny about spinning a poorly made router bit at 20K RPM! I have not used Ryobi bits or any other bits from the orange home center. I have used numerous quality name brands and typically only encounter problems burning end grain when:

1) The feed rate is too slow.

2) The bit is spinning too fast (larger bits)

3) Some combination of 1 and 2 is happening.

4) The bits are dull or has excessive pitch build up, or both.

As you said your router is fixed speed you can only control the feed rate. You might try taking out most of the material on an initial pass, then finishing up with one light pass at the quickest feed rate you are comfortable with. This helps me some times as end grain can be difficult to maintain a swift and study feed rate in a single pass.

I would also like you to consider the possibility that Ryobi bits are inexpensive because they are not very good, and from poor bits you may expect poor results. There are different grades of carbide for use in machine tooling, and different quality levels with in those grades. The highest quality levels when viewed under a microscope have a very even distribution of carbide and appear smooth and solid. The lower grades appear porous and spongy. I'm told by my the tech at the machine shop where I send my tooling that cheap carbide will not take as good an edge and will not hold it as long either.

Beyond carbide quality there are issues with bearing quality, the precision with which the steel bodies are made and balanced, carbide brazing quality and final grind quality. I was given a set of Woodtec brand bits that were all new or barely used by a surgeon who'd had a near miss with a router and decided to give up wood working. I found them to be of such poor quality that I threw them away as they were not even suitable for occasional use.

It is very difficult to truly sharpen (face grind) carbide cutters with any great success without expensive precision machinery. You may remove a burr which has developed with flat diamond hones but the results I find are marginal and often short lived. I'm told that the single biggest flaw in less expensive tooling is final grind quality and that often having the bits properly sharpened (face ground) by a machine shop can vastly improve performance, but it is doubtful you may find a price for this service which seems cost effective given the low initial cost of the bits.

To answer your initial question directly, other than the suggestions above, the most obvious way to stop the burning is to stop using Ryobi bits and go back to the Freud (or similar quality) with which you yourself have had proven success in the past. I have found it doesn't take too many ruined work pieces before the cost of the wood begins to out weight the additional cost of quality tooling, not to mention the frustration that comes from achieving poor results.

[Tom Veatch]

...- I saw some information on sharpening router bits but haven't wanted to break out files just yet. Anyone try sharpening router bits?

As stated by others, forget the files. If a good cleaning to remove all resin deposits and polishing the flat face of the carbide with diamond hones doesn't improve the cut, and in my experience, it probably won't, retire the bits and replace them with good quality bits.

Personally, I've just about decided to make Whiteside my first choice due to the excellent results obtained when I finally let the moths out of my wallet and bought a couple of them.

[glenn bradley]

Personally, I've just about decided to make Whiteside my first choice due to the excellent results obtained when I finally let the moths out of my wallet and bought a couple of them.

Except for known quality super-cheap-on-sale-or-blow-out bits I will only part with my dough for Whiteside, Freud and Amana in that order. Others, including very expensive ones, just haven't been better but many have been worse. Save your money, buy quality.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Are these funny suggestions or ones designed to be helpful in solving my problem? I'm hoping that you're here to sincerely help others out and not simply crack jokes.....

A tad over sensitive what?

I told you to check the grind - - did I not?

[Jamie Cowan]

I stopped reading when I read the word "Ryobi." That kind of says it all.

[Ray Scheller]

Cliff I would agree but he might not know that there is no such thing and he took it serious and therefore didn't appreciate the humor.

[Stan Urbas]

I always go through the same routine when routing on the edge grain. I feed slowly to get about 90-95% of the work off, then follow with a fast pass to get the last of it. It might burn a little on the first pass, but the second comes clean.

[Greg Magone]

There is nothing funny about spinning a poorly made router bit at 20K RPM! I have not used Ryobi bits or any other bits from the orange home center. I have used numerous quality name brands and typically only encounter problems burning end grain when:

1) The feed rate is too slow.

2) The bit is spinning too fast (larger bits)

3) Some combination of 1 and 2 is happening.

4) The bits are dull or has excessive pitch build up, or both.

As you said your router is fixed speed you can only control the feed rate. You might try taking out most of the material on an initial pass, then finishing up with one light pass at the quickest feed rate you are comfortable with. This helps me some times as end grain can be difficult to maintain a swift and study feed rate in a single pass.

I would also like you to consider the possibility that Ryobi bits are inexpensive because they are not very good, and from poor bits you may expect poor results. There are different grades of carbide for use in machine tooling, and different quality levels with in those grades. The highest quality levels when viewed under a microscope have a very even distribution of carbide and appear smooth and solid. The lower grades appear porous and spongy. I'm told by my the tech at the machine shop where I send my tooling that cheap carbide will not take as good an edge and will not hold it as long either.

Beyond carbide quality there are issues with bearing quality, the precision with which the steel bodies are made and balanced, carbide brazing quality and final grind quality. I was given a set of Woodtec brand bits that were all new or barely used by a surgeon who'd had a near miss with a router and decided to give up wood working. I found them to be of such poor quality that I threw them away as they were not even suitable for occasional use.

It is very difficult to truly sharpen (face grind) carbide cutters with any great success without expensive precision machinery. You may remove a burr which has developed with flat diamond hones but the results I find are marginal and often short lived. I'm told that the single biggest flaw in less expensive tooling is final grind quality and that often having the bits properly sharpened (face ground) by a machine shop can vastly improve performance, but it is doubtful you may find a price for this service which seems cost effective given the low initial cost of the bits.

To answer your initial question directly, other than the suggestions above, the most obvious way to stop the burning is to stop using Ryobi bits and go back to the Freud (or similar quality) with which you yourself have had proven success in the past. I have found it doesn't take too many ruined work pieces before the cost of the wood begins to out weight the additional cost of quality tooling, not to mention the frustration that comes from achieving poor results.

Peter - thanks for your suggestions. A post like this is helpful, concise, and gives me the information that I'm looking for. My opinion prior to posting the question was that my bits were of poor grade but I didn't have a handle on what about them made it poor. Your explanation about porosity in the carbide makes sense and I like how you describe the different qualities of carbide available. In general, I don't believe there is much of quality that you can buy from either the orange or blue box and really try to avoid them.

I used Freud years ago and had a great experience with them but they are awfully spendy and before I jump out and buy new ones I wanted some confirmation that my bits were probably not the best quality. Your post as well as the others (helpful ones) confirmed that and now I'll make sure to get good quality bits in the future.

Thanks!

[Peter Quinn]

Not to fuel any controversy, but I have in fact bought a bit that spun the wrong way. Last summer i ordered a spiral carbide 3/8" flute, 3/8" shank for a job in an extra long length, and failed to read the LHR notation carefully on the site, I'm getting ready to chuck the cutter in the collet when something starts tickling my cerebellum, and I start thinking "Hey, wait a minute, those flutes don't look right!" They were in fact perfect, for a router spinning the opposite direction or a CNC with a reversible head.

It is possible to buy bits with left hand rotation, though I doubt the name Ryobi will occur any where on them. I know Onsrud makes them though!:D:D

[Greg Magone]

OK, I know this thread is old, but I have a solution!

I went to down Harbor Freight and purchased a speed controller for my router (since I have some fancy big Amana router bits on the water). I tried out my Ryobi router bits on hickory, and they barely burned when I used a slower speed!

So I think I can say my Ryobi router bits aren't junk after all. They're not high performance and I don't know how long the carbide will last, but perhaps I will be able to use them after all as long as I take it slow.

That's great because I really didn't want to replace every one in the set with a fancy Amana bit. Perhaps the ones I use the most, but certainly not everyone of them.

[scott spencer]

OK, I know this thread is old, but I have a solution!

I went to down Harbor Freight and purchased a speed controller for my router (since I have some fancy big Amana router bits on the water). I tried out my Ryobi router bits on hickory, and they barely burned when I used a slower speed!

So I think I can say my Ryobi router bits aren't junk after all. They're not high performance and I don't know how long the carbide will last, but perhaps I will be able to use them after all as long as I take it slow.

That's great because I really didn't want to replace every one in the set with a fancy Amana bit. Perhaps the ones I use the most, but certainly not everyone of them.

Good to hear an update and a good outcome! If and when you replace the Ryobi bits, the Whiteside 7pc set of commonly used profiles is a very good value at $80 shipped from Holbren (http://www.holbren.com/home.php?xid=af7a4f0af6b3da6dc4a57cca884ed9d0) when you use the "SMC10" discount code...all top grade US made cutters at a reasonable price.
http://www.holbren.com/skin1/images/custom/main.jpg

[Matt Day]

I've got a cheapo set of Harbor Freight bits, and when I put in a Whiteside bit - same speed, wood, depth of cut, everything - it's a night and day difference in cut quality. I still use the HF bits, they just don't do as good of a job as a high quality bit.

I'm glad you found a workaround that does the trick for you, but I think it's sort of a bandaid. What's the expression... you can't polish a turd? Yes that is a joke, but it's somewhat true.

[Ray Phillips]

The old saying "you get what you pay for" is true as I have learned in the past. I have owned two Ryobi tools and they have both been junk. I purchased a cheap set of bits from Holbren a year ago and the first time I used one of the bits it flew apart and scared the cr%#@*p out of me. I have used white side bits ever since and there is no comparison. I bought the $88.00 set from Holbren and they are fantastic. I have learned from the good folks on this forum that one should buy the bit you need for the project at hand instead of buying big kits and getting bits yoy never use. Just my .02