Continuing on building my backyard deck - questions

[Lincoln Myers]

Hello Creek!

Have a couple questions on building my deck. I'm using 6x6 posts and 2x8 for beam and joists. My beam will be 2 2x8s attached together in some manner.

1. What is your preferred method for building up the beam(s)? Simply nailing the 2 2x8s together? Nailing them together with plywood spacers? Other?

2. What is your preferred method for attaching the beam(s) to the posts? Setting beam on top of post w/ simpson type connector? Notching the post to accept the beam and attaching with lag bolts? Other?

3. Do you put anything on top of the beam to protect from water damage such as bituminous tape or other water barrier?

Thanks for any suggestions.

-Linc

[Lee Schierer]

After seeing what happens to lag bolts on my previous decks, I prefer to use through bolts. The srength of common lag screws has declined IMO and the new screws tend to break off right at the point where the tread joins the shank of the screw. The new steel screws are much stronger, bu tI haven't seen how they hold up in treated lumber out doors. Some building codes require the use of through bolts instead of lag screws.

[Lee Koepke]

1. for exterior decks, nailing the 2x8s together without the flitch plate is fine

2. I notch the post and lag bolt thru. IMO better bearing and lateral support.

3. Using PT lumber, shouldnt be necessary. Your deck should have some pitch to it and water shouldnt stay there too long, usually ...

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

I would think just nailing the 2x8's together are fine, as long as they're supported equally by posts (using whatever method you choose). Using plywood spacers is usually so that the thickness matches the thickness of a studded wall (i.e. a header above an external door or window), and is not needed with a deck.

through-bolt where possible. lag bolt if you have to.

[Lincoln Myers]

Thanks for the replies so far. Anyone have experience with Ledgerlock or similar 'newer type of ledger attachment screws'.

http://www.mcfeelys.com/product/HLL-1450/x-5-LedgerLok-Ledger-Fastener

-Linc

[Bill Dunn jr]

Hi Lincoln,

If you are going to use 2 x 8 for the beams your posts will need to be awful close together. Around here we can only go around 8' when using 2 x 10. Also, I wouldn't spend the money for the special screws. Hot dipped galvanized nails will suffice.

[Lincoln Myers]

I found some more information on these ledgerlok screws. Also found several builder forums where deck builders use these extensively with good results. I called my building inspector and he approved them as well.

See links for more information:

http://www.fastenmaster.com/Files/WhatsNewInformationFiles/11/DocumentFile/LLok-JLC.pdf

http://www.rockytopbp.com/documents/LedgerLokSS.pdf

My local lumberyard sells them as well as Menards.

-Linc

[Steven Hardy]

I found some more information on these ledgerlok screws. Also found several builder forums where deck builders use these extensively with good results. I called my building inspector and he approved them as well.

See links for more information:

http://www.fastenmaster.com/Files/WhatsNewInformationFiles/11/DocumentFile/LLok-JLC.pdf

http://www.rockytopbp.com/documents/LedgerLokSS.pdf

My local lumberyard sells them as well as Menards.

-Linc

Ive never used them....but I like the looks of them. Especially important is the ability to re-tighten them after the pressure treated wood dries out and shrinks.

[Matt Ocel]

Ledgerlocks rock!
Its all I use nowadays and my Dewalt 18v impact driver works great.

As far as your beam(s) always follow your span/load charts. Nail them together 16" o.c. in rows of 4.

Notch and lag beams to posts whenever possible.

P.S. I have never built a deck using less than 2 x 10s. I have some pictures posted in "lumber yards" under My most challenging deck(s)

[Paul Girouard]

1. What is your preferred method for building up the beam(s)? Simply nailing the 2 2x8s together? Nailing them together with plywood spacers? Other?

2. What is your preferred method for attaching the beam(s) to the posts? Setting beam on top of post w/ simpson type connector? Notching the post to accept the beam and attaching with lag bolts? Other?

3. Do you put anything on top of the beam to protect from water damage such as bituminous tape or other water barrier?




#1: Use 4x10 pressure treated lumber for your beams, or at least 4x8's , if it's a deck and it's outside , DUH , use the PT materials .

Or have about double the posts and pier pads if you use the dbl-ed 2x8's.

The PT lumber is ACQ so use ZMAX or stainless steel hanger / clips and hot dipped galv. nails or again SS.

Why are you using 6x6 posts? Are they over 6' in height? Granted I think 6x6's are nicer looking , but you never stated IF they'd show or the length over all .

With a 6x6 post a lap joint/ shoulder joint would be best , thru bolted again with galv. or SS bolts.

#2: Here in the PNW two 1/2"x min 4" lags are used every 16" OC , yes thats a lot of lags . Your deck bolts would pass code as well here, I've never used them. We use Galv. lags as stated above.

Many decks collapse due to insufficient fastening to the rim , DO NOT "just nail it up".



#3: You could but generally we do not do that. How much of that area will be seen? Again that could be a factor.


Good luck , weed your advise here wisely , most of it is BS or ill-advised.

[Jim Kountz]

Always double 2x10 for the beam and notch the 6x6 post so the beam rests on the notch and through bolt it with carriage bolts. On longer runs plan your breaks in the beam carefully so you can stagger the joints or breaks and not have two in the same place/post. You may have to buy longer lumber but its worth it in the end. I have never and would never use anything less than 6x6 post, 4x4's just dont cut it for me. For one thing if you're using double 2x10 for the beam and 4x4 posts theres no effective way to notch the post for the beam. Ive seem some inexperienced builders simply bolt one 2x10 on each side of a 4x4 but then you are relying on the bolt and the bolt alone to carry the weight. BAD DOG NO BISCUIT!! LOL

[Paul Girouard]

So here we go with a "it depends " senerio .

4x4 post with a beam on top can be done like this ,

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Mar16Chambers2.jpg

Why use a 6x6 for a deck less than 5' from the ground ?

Why bolt it when a Simpson bracket is more than good enough?

Why use non presssure treated lumber for a exterior deck?

Why use 2x10 when a beam , a 4 by is what you need?

Why design a deck that we have no idea how large , how high of the ground it is without that info your shooting in the dark.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Mar16Chambers1.jpg

So what are you really building ? Details please. The devil is in them, IF you allow that.

[Jim Kountz]

So here we go with a "it depends " senerio .

4x4 post with a beam on top can be done like this ,

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Mar16Chambers2.jpg

Why use a 6x6 for a deck less than 5' from the ground ?

Why bolt it when a Simpson bracket is more than good enough?

Why use non presssure treated lumber for a exterior deck?

Why use 2x10 when a beam , a 4 by is what you need?

Why design a deck that we have no idea how large , how high of the ground it is without that info your shooting in the dark.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Mar16Chambers1.jpg

So what are you really building ? Details please. The devil is in them, IF you allow that.

Well lets see here, why use a 6x6 when less than 5'? Makes no difference to me, I always use 6x6 for the reasons I already stated.

Why bolt instead of a simpson bracket. That one is easy, just look at those brackets, they are FUGLY man. No way would I ever leave something like that exposed for all to see. MAYBE if they were to be concealed, but even then I would probably just notch and bolt.

Why use a 2x10 for the beam, well easier to work with, you can manipulate the individual boards with less effort, you can get longer runs but alternating boards lengths together between your posts to form long beams that otherwise you would have to butt or lap joint together etc. That of course only pertains to longer decks I suppose.

ALways PT lumber for exterior. ALWAYS.

[Paul Girouard]

#1: Well lets see here, why use a 6x6 when less than 5'? Makes no difference to me, I always use 6x6 for the reasons I already stated.

#2: Why bolt instead of a simpson bracket. That one is easy, just look at those brackets, they are FUGLY man. No way would I ever leave something like that exposed for all to see. MAYBE if they were to be concealed, but even then I would probably just notch and bolt.

#3: Why use a 2x10 for the beam, well easier to work with, you can manipulate the individual boards with less effort, you can get longer runs but alternating boards lengths together between your posts to form long beams that otherwise you would have to butt or lap joint together etc. That of course only pertains to longer decks I suppose.

#4: ALways PT lumber for exterior. ALWAYS.



#1: who pays for all the added costs ? The client? What about the wasted resources / carbon foot print ? Just bigger isn't ALWAYS better.

#2: Plants , lattice , paint , thats a "it was just built" deck photo in fact not even finished yet, by now (2 years latter I bet they've planted so many flowers and plants in there you can't see under the deck.

#3: It would require more post , hence more $$ in pier pads , saddles , and post , plus the labor to install them. Double up 2 by's are for headers in a house not beams on a deck. The wood sandwich also holds water which in turn promote rot , even in PT lumber standing water trapped between laminated member is a bad idea.

If you space them one on each side of the 6x6 you do not have a beam that is structural at least in Washington state where we have building codes , and PLENTY of them :rolleyes: mostly concerning earthquakes and here on Whidbey Island high winds areas and codes to combat those issue such as up lift.

#4: Something we agree upon!

And we still have no idea what he's really building , hell, it could be a deck on a third floor for all we know. Then those 6x6's would come in handy.

[Jim Kountz]

So here we go with a "it depends " senerio .

4x4 post with a beam on top can be done like this ,

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Mar16Chambers2.jpg

Why use a 6x6 for a deck less than 5' from the ground ?

Why bolt it when a Simpson bracket is more than good enough?

Why use non presssure treated lumber for a exterior deck?

Why use 2x10 when a beam , a 4 by is what you need?

Why design a deck that we have no idea how large , how high of the ground it is without that info your shooting in the dark.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Mar16Chambers1.jpg

So what are you really building ? Details please. The devil is in them, IF you allow that.


#1: who pays for all the added costs ? The client? What about the wasted resources / carbon foot print ? Just bigger isn't ALWAYS better.

#2: Plants , lattice , paint , thats a "it was just built" deck photo in fact not even finished yet, by now (2 years latter I bet they've planted so many flowers and plants in there you can't see under the deck.

#3: It would require more post , hence more $$ in pier pads , saddles , and post , plus the labor to install them. Double up 2 by's are for headers in a house not beams on a deck. The wood sandwich also holds water which in turn promote rot , even in PT lumber standing water trapped between laminated member is a bad idea.

If you space them one on each side of the 6x6 you do not have a beam that is structural at least in Washington state where we have building codes , and PLENTY of them :rolleyes: mostly concerning earthquakes and here on Whidbey Island high winds areas and codes to combat those issue such as up lift.

#4: Something we agree upon!

And we still have no idea what he's really building , hell, it could be a deck on a third floor for all we know. Then those 6x6's would come in handy.

Ok Paul relax man, clearly we disagree on some issues here but lets keep it real if we could please? You're not reading clearly here, I NEVER condoned placing a 2x10 on each side of the post in fact I said that I have seen INEXPERIENCED people do this. See? I was saying that was a BAD thing.

As to extra costs, its a wash, do the math go figure it out you'll see. Double 2x10's do not require more piers and blocks and concrete than your method does, thats just wrong on all levels. Code lets us go up to 8' between post like most areas NOT in or on a fault line of course.

And hey if you're cool with hiding ugly metal brackets with plants and stuff but all meads go for it, whatever works for you, I was just saying ME myself , personally would never do it, thats all, Now breathe deep man it aint worth getting all excited about. Right?? There now thats better! LOL

[Paul Girouard]

I was just saying ME myself , personally would never do it, thats all, Now breathe deep man it aint worth getting all excited about. Right??



Why do you think I'm excited?

Why wouldn't some one who read what you wrote think you where letting them in on both sides?

Do you think that wood sandwich is a good idea? Do you not worry about rot?

I'd have to go look in the code book but I do not think a double 2 x "beam" will pass our codes here. I could be wrong , but I'd never use a built up beam outside on a deck for the reasons I stated.

I was being real BTW just stating how we / I do it. YMMV of course , Linc's may as well he doesn't know what right or wrong so he can pick and choose what he "feels" is best , as his "feelings" may cloud his thinking if he feels I'm "upset" like you did.:D

How do you type to sound "upset" they're just words , eh:rolleyes:

[Tim Morton]

Here in Vermont we use double 2x8's for the beam and set them on top of 6x6 posts.

[Billy Dodd]

Nice looking deck Paul. I doubt the owners think anything about the metal brackets compared to the sewer pipe sticking out of the ground.

[Paul Girouard]

Nice looking deck Paul.

I doubt the owners think anything about the metal brackets compared to the sewer pipe sticking out of the ground.



We built the addition ( family room) and the deck , re muddled the kitchen area as well . Originally a very poor design inside.

That green pipe IIRC is covering a water shutoff to a garden , it was not part of our remodel , nor our responsibility in anyway.

I'll go by there Monday we have another job just down the street , I'm kinda curious now about what that area looks like. When we leave we never really know for sure what the home owner "really" does with what we've built.

Hell it could look exactly the same , just with more weeds:D

I think Lincoln's gone to crap and the hogs ate'um:confused: Come on Linc , what ya do'in here!!!:confused: Info, we need info , to finish this 2 page thread off:D

[Lincoln Myers]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I have been outside for 2 days straight, waiting for some rain to pass now.

My deck is at most 18" off the ground at it's furthest point from the house.

You can see more details on the design in this post:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=83922

I did use the LedgerLoks, thanks Matt for the comments on their successful use.

1. I am using 2 2x8 doubled up beam screwed together with Simson SDS screws 2 every 16".

2. Using 6x6 beams I notched and through bolted with galvanized lag bolts/washers/nuts.

3. Not sure yet if I'll put some sort of water barrier on top of beams.

Thanks again.

[Matt Ocel]

Lincoln -

I'm currios.

What did you do with the "step" issue?

[Lincoln Myers]

Lincoln -

I'm currios.

What did you do with the "step" issue?

I went with your suggestion. 2 Double-hung joists w/ a double 'ledger' hung between them.

See picture, I did not put footings under it.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=88354&d=1210624797

-Update - added some picures.

[Matt Ocel]

10 - 4!

Keep taking pictures.