Burnisher for scrapers

[Doug Hobkirk]

Can I use a:


a used valve from a motor? (awkward "handle", short)
a good cutlery hone? (nice handle, nice length)
a screwdriver with a round shank? (nice handle, nice length)

The Veritas burnisher seems too complex (3 contours) and $30 too expensive for what seems like a simple task. Or am I wrong?

Thanks

[Tim Put]

The harder and smoother the better.
Precision ground carbide rod is harder and smoother than any of the above.

Get this lee valley burnisher http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32643&cat=1,310,41070&ap=1

[Phillip Pattee]

The only real rule is that your burnisher has to be harder than the steel in the scraper. If you don't want to spend money on one, perhaps an old drill bit would do. The one I use, I got from Stewart MacDonald.
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Scrapers/Scraper_Burnisher.html

[David DeCristoforo]

Other than the difficulty of holding on to it, a valve stem would make a great burnisher. A smooth cutlery hone would work but I would avoid a "fluted" one. A screwdriver... probably too soft. I bought a burnisher similar to this:
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=262
"way back when" but it was only like six bucks. Looking at the prices on some of this stuff now makes me really glad I bought so many of my tools so long ago. I don't think I could afford to set up my shop "as is" at today's prices.

[Bob Barkto]

If you're really frugal, like me, an old 1/4" solid carbide flush trim router bit makes a very nice burnisher.
Glue the cutting end in a handle, use the shank as the working end.
Best burnisher I've used.

[John Thompson]

AS Phillip mentioned... about anything will work as long as the metal is harder than the metal in the scraper. I used a screw-driver for a number of years before I bought a 3 sided burnisher. If I lost the store bought tomorrow.. work would go on as I have a shop full of things that could be used.

Good luck...

Sarge..

[Rob Luter]

I found a couple of old Buck Brothers burnishers at antique malls for cheap, but as was said, anything smooth and hard will work. One particularly nice solution is a hardened and ground dowel pin. A 3/8 x 3" version works well. These are available at most industrial supply outlets for under a couple bucks. Just mount them in a wood handle. (The Stewart MacDonald burnisher uses a dowel pin.)

[James Carmichael]

If you're really frugal, like me, an old 1/4" solid carbide flush trim router bit makes a very nice burnisher.
Glue the cutting end in a handle, use the shank as the working end.
Best burnisher I've used.

Ditto that, except I use the shank of 1/2" straight bit (one of Woodcraft's $5 bits). Drill a 90-degree hole in a flat piece of scrap and you've got a guide/handle.

[Russ Hauser]

I assume from the above replies that a round burnisher is desireable. Years ago, when I supervised a machine shop, I surface ground the teeth off of a narrow file, and have been using it as my burnisher. Would it be better if I used a round burnisher?

[John Thompson]

I assume from the above replies that a round burnisher is desireable. Years ago, when I supervised a machine shop, I surface ground the teeth off of a narrow file, and have been using it as my burnisher. Would it be better if I used a round burnisher?

Would it be better? .... nope. Life is simple until we find a way to complicate it.... "If it ain't broken, don't fix it". :)

Sarge..

[Russ Hauser]

Thank you Sarge. The burnisher also works as a scraper for my mini lathe.

Russ

[Clint Jones]

I made mine from a Czech Edge kit. I believe it cost around $10.


http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r256/junkerjones/burnisher.jpg

[Peter Quadarella]

From reading and watching Tage Frid, it seems he used the backs of chisels.

[James Russell]

A valve stem is the only burnisher I have used in 20 years. It works just fine for me. The proof is in the output of the scraper and nothing else. My scrapers take of super-fine shavings in all types of wood.

[Derek Cohen]

Whatever you choose to use as a burnisher, it must meet two requirements:

1. The steel must be harder than the metal you wish to bend. The reason here is obvious.

2. The steel must be smooth and free of chips, ridges and other imperfections that would be transfered to the edge of the blade you are creating. Think of a beader if you want it more graphic!

The exception to rule #2 is if you want to scrape paint or glue. Then it does not matter. Use a coarse file if you wish. See if I care.

Frankly I am amazed that so many want to cut corners on this important tool simply because they consider a cabinet scraper to be a basic, cheap and elementary. Would you prepare the blade of your scraper plane or the blade of your finish smoother with this lack of concern or care?

There are indeed shortcuts in the expense department, but they are not available to every one - it depends on opportunity and availability. For example, I made this burnisher out of a carbide rod that was a present to me from the owner of a machinist's shop (thanks Tony)..

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Tools%20that%20I%20have%20made/Burnisher-carbide.jpg

For reasons of "a return-to-sanity", I stopped using the pinion gear as a burnisher, although it worked very well (Guess the car and you can have it - the pinion gear, not the car! - free except for shipping costs!) ..

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Tools%20that%20I%20have%20made/Newscraper1.jpg

If you do not have access to carbide (e.g. a nice friend or a router shank ... what is a router shank you ask on a hand tool forum ... good for you!), then buy a burnisher! Don't be cheap and use a screwdriver shank - it may violate Rule #2 above.

The LV is excellent but some may find it fussy. I have used a Crown for a number of years. Still have it. Here is a picture alongside the homebrew (which lets you see how small and slim the carbide rod is - I love this one!) ..

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Tools%20that%20I%20have%20made/Burnishers-carbideandCrown.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tony Zaffuto]

Hey Derek!

How's the article on the Blum plane coming? In the pictures I've seen, the planes look like work of art! We're fortunate to have so many quality tools manufactured today. I received an email this past Thursday that a certain well-respected saw maker has mailed not one, but two saws to me: a rip and crosscut half back saws. Guess there will be day this week when I don't go into the office!

With regards to the carbide, the carbide I sent out is very much different then the carbide in router bits or valve guides. The difference is two fold: a much finer grain structure and an extreme polish. Carbide, by it's manufacturing process, also has a natural lubricity. Unfortunately, to buy new, it is extremely expensive! A month back or so, I look at pricing to secure a number of rods specificly for scraper burnishers, sized at 5/16" which is (from my experience) a preferential diameter for burnishing (again, my own experience, thinner is much better). Rods alone would have cost around $20.00 American which is roughly equivalent to Aussie (from the last time I looked at currency translation tables). My cost was from one of my raw material suppliers and would be considerably less than a Galoot buying an individual piece.

Anyhow (for those who don't know my background), I own a powder metal parts manufacturing business, primarily supplying the automotive industry. Parts are made by compressing metal, in powder form, in high tonnage presses, and then sintering (baking) to consolidate the compact (this was a very simple description, in actuality, there is much more that goes on). Anyhow in our process, cored holes are formed by core rods, in the tooling that goes into the presses. The preferential material for core rods is carbide. When tools breaks or becomes obsolete, it is kept around for a while and then discarded for scrap value. In the case of the carbide rods, I simply sent them out to whoever requested one. Unfortuantely, at this time, my stock is virtually depleted.

I have been exploring alternative materials that can approach the results from carbide. One is a material identical to Rev. Hock's rods, which is an excellent burnisher. I would suggest, however, to go thinner and maybe a bit further on the polishing of the surface. With those changes and a tad of lubricant on the rod (rub it alongside your nose) and it will work admirably!

Anyways, in view of the history of Galootdom, our ancestry dictates that what we typically use and what has worked for us in the past. Experiment to see what works best for the job at hand. Derek would agree that we a very sharp, well tuned plane is preferential to using a scraper. But there are some instances when you absolutely need to scrape. But you must pay attention to the materials you are working! Scrapers do not work well on softwoods and even some hardwoods. However, if anyone finds something that works for them, don't be influenced by the opinions of others.

Tony Z.

[John Thompson]

"Don't be cheap and use a screwdriver shank - it violates Rule #2 above"... Derek Cohen

****


First.. I have great respect for Derek and visit his web-site often. He has done much excellent work in the hand plane field that has en-lightened many as to value.. quality and technique. But.. with all due respect I do have a question for you.

Derek... I first saw a screw-driver used physucally to burnish on two occasions in 1978 (? 78-79 ?) by Tage Frid in a two day seminar at Highland Hardware. I saw Ian Kirby pick one up and use it in his school in the 80's in Cumming, Ga. as it was closer than his burnisher at the time he needed it. The shafts on those screw-drivers were relatively smooth even though not polished like a cylinder wall would be. Also.. the teeth on the file mentioned earlier had been ground off in a machine shop to smooth but not necessarily polished.

I agree that carbide is the weapon of choice as I will making a new burnisher today or tomorrow with handles on both sides of an old router bit shaft. But... carbide has not been around forever and scrapers have been used for ages as have hand planes. Agreed....?

Now... if someone on a budget cannot afford to purchase $200-$300 U.S. dollars on the new technology sharpening (it's hyped as "must-have" but extremely over-hyped IMO) which would include a carbide burnisher.... do you feel that they cannot get a satisfactory edge on a scraper that will produce suitable shaving and a smooth stock surface with something as simple (but yet crude compared to carbide) as a good quality, smooth screw-driver shaft?

Ask with utmost respect to you and what you have accomplished...

Sarge..

[Derek Cohen]

Hi John (Sarge)

Sorry if I got your gander up. I wrote that a bit tongue-in-cheek.

Actually, if you read what I wrote carefully, you will recognise that I did not say that everyone should use carbide. Nor did I say that you should not use a screwdriver - if it is smooth and hard steel, then it might work. I did say that, if the aim is to create a smooth surface, the scraper is to be used needs a smooth edge. Not all "burnishers" meet this criteria.

I frequently read about those who simply run a coarse file over the edge and consider that the shavings they achieve are proof of this method. As I mentioned earlier, this is a valid preparation of a scraper edge, but I consider it the equivalent of a jack plane rather than a smoother.

It is all about the surface, not the shaving.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tony Zaffuto]

Sarge,

The carbide Derek referred to was "no cost"! Basically, the core pins I use at my manufacturing plant, when through breakage or wear or obsolescence, are no longer useable, are gathered and instead of scrapping, have been sent to Galoots around the world. This has been done so that the material is used and not scrapped.

If you read my previous post, you will see that I have researched the cost of carbide rods with an initial use as a scraper burnisher. I ruled this out because the piece price of the rod would be around $20.00. With adding a ferrule and turning a handle, you would double that price without adding any profit. My thoughts are selling a carbide burnisher at $50 would not have a large market (I am not thinking of making or selling these things!).

Private message me your address and when I have a piece, I'll mail it out to you, although it may be few weeks or so till I have a piece to send out!

T.Z.

[David DeCristoforo]

"...I...saw a screw-driver used...to burnish on two occasions...by Tage Frid...I saw Ian Kirby pick one up and use it..."

Frid and Kirby are (or in Frid's case make that past tense) "no frills" artisans that, for the most part would waste no time looking for a tool when there was something within reach that would do the job. But still, most screwdrivers are not made of hard enough steel to make a good burnisher. I have often used the edge of a chisel (but not my "good" Japanese chisels) rather than walk over to find a burnisher. But I love Derek's pinion gear! The first time I saw this in a past post I wanted one. What a great (and very "macho") multi-purpose tool!!!

[John Thompson]

Thanks for clarification Derek.. as sometimes words on a forum are "not read throughly" and often "mis-interpreted" by the reader even if they did. That's why questions should be presented if in any doubt and not just an assumption made to bring the point into a crystal clear focus.

And you did not get my dander up.. I simply wanted clarification before I formed an opionion of what I thought you said. As witnessed daily.. I often see simple solutions passed over to seek more a high tech solution. An example is a thread the other day where someone found after purchasing his "must have" digital read-out that his ripped stock was off from front to rear .004. And he got about 6 answers on how to tune his saw for the solution to the "ghastly" problem which has a simple solution.. get back to work and return the digital read-out so a machinist that needs one can purchase it. :)

And I do agree that the answer lies in the surface. At some point if we intend to move up in skill level.. we must either have or acquire common sense. By looking at the surface.. common sense will tell you if your method is working or you need a fix.

Regards from the state of Georgia, U.S.A.

Sarge.. who enjoyed both Australian beer and women on two prior trips with a third hoped for....:D

[John Thompson]

Thanks Tony as PM sent... but do not send without enclosing the amount of postage as I seek no free rides.

Regards...

Sarge..

[John Thompson]

"...I...saw a screw-driver used...to burnish on two occasions...by Tage Frid...I saw Ian Kirby pick one up and use it..."

Frid and Kirby are (or in Frid's case make that past tense) "no frills" artisans that, for the most part would waste no time looking for a tool when there was something within reach that would do the job. But still, most screwdrivers are not made of hard enough steel to make a good burnisher. I have often used the edge of a chisel (but not my "good" Japanese chisels) rather than walk over to find a burnisher. But I love Derek's pinion gear! The first time I saw this in a past post I wanted one. What a great (and very "macho") multi-purpose tool!!!

Yep... I suppose I am what you refer to as "old school" in the respect of I will take what is available and make it work and got most as those old fellas were about the only source of information I had when I started butchering wood.

I just finished a TV stand to match a bed-room suite I am building for my wife. I had a difficult time forcing myself to cut holes in the rear dust-shield to run electrical cords through. :eek:

Furniture with holes for electrical cords.. what is the world coming too? :D

Sarge..

[Dave Anderson NH]

A good source of carbide rods for free is any company which does waterjet cutting. Typical waterjet orfices (nozzles) are about 3.5 to 4" long and .250" diameter. They only last anywhere from 10-20 hours in use before the abrasive powder in the water erodes them to the point where the orfice is too wide to maintain accuracy. They are not reworkable and are hence discarded. They make really great burnishers. If you have a fabricating company in your area which does waterjet cutting, drop by and ask them if they will save their old nozzles for you. Use the old woodturners trick for getting cooperation.... they give you nozzles, you make them something nice for their office or lobby.