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James & Zelma Litzmann
06-04-2008, 10:47 PM
Does anyone have any advice on sublimation, equipment, etc. Thanks in advance.

Mike Null
06-04-2008, 11:00 PM
Zelma

I can only tell you what I did. After struggling a couple of years with inkjet sublimation I gave up and gave away my equipment, inks and paper.

I then bought an old HP laser jet black toner machine and have paid for it three times over in 90 days. I will not go back to inkjet sublimation.

Reasons: too many rejects, limited and expensive substrates, expensive inks and just generally a headache.

I recently farmed out a small mug job. Neither of the people I went to could come close on colors.

James & Zelma Litzmann
06-05-2008, 10:15 AM
(I then bought an old HP laser jet black toner machine and have paid for it three times over in 90 days. I will not go back to inkjet sublimation.)

Mike I don't know a lot about sublimatation . . . yet but with the HP laser jet black toner machine, can you do the same as sublimation, or something similar. I am wanting to put the customer's pictures on cups, boxes, key chains, tiles ect. but I want to be able to do this in color. I can do this with my laser to some degree but I was just looking for other ways.

Richard Rumancik
06-05-2008, 10:51 AM
There are toner-based sublimation systems; not sure if Mike has black-only sublimation or what. If you check some of the magazines like A&E you may see some adverts. Color toner sublimation cartridges are expensive but don't suffer from shelf life/usage problems. Can't say how they compare for image quality.

My experience: Several years ago I bought an Epson printer for $400 and Sawgrass ink for $400. I did several experiments learning how to do it, then got busy with the laser. I did not know you had to run the printer every week to keep the inkjets from plugging. Short story is that the printer head plugged; I could not flush it, the heads are not easily replaceable, and the Epson dealer said throw it away. So keep in mind that if you do inkjet sublimation you need to use it continuously or you may not be able to clean the head. If you don't have a job for it one week you still need to start it up and run a sheet or two through it using all the colors.

Mike - can you elaborate on what you are using the HP for?

joe daley
06-05-2008, 11:56 AM
Does anyone have any advice on sublimation, equipment, etc. Thanks in advance.
we run 6 sub printers -- what do you need to know exactly?
Joe
direct email: sales@palmimports.com

James & Zelma Litzmann
06-05-2008, 3:49 PM
First I want to say thanks to everyone who has responded.

Joe, are all 6 of yours the same kind or do you have a variety and if so which one do you prefer. What the biggest issue you have, if any, what kind of things should I watch for when trying to decide which one to go with?

Any or should I say all advise is appreciated.

joe daley
06-06-2008, 12:07 PM
First I want to say thanks to everyone who has responded.

Joe, are all 6 of yours the same kind or do you have a variety and if so which one do you prefer. What the biggest issue you have, if any, what kind of things should I watch for when trying to decide which one to go with?

Any or should I say all advise is appreciated.

depends on what you want to do- were one of the largest ceramic poker chip manufacturers out there so were constantly running printers- we use the same printers- Epson 4000--6 of em 12-15 hours a day- every day-
other then cleaning these printers they dont miss a beat- ever.

Our page counts are through the roof- and not one printer failure yet.

We use a korean ink and never have had a clogged head that couldnt be cleaned with a nozzle check.

The Epson 4000's can be converted to DUAL CMYK which is great- although we run em at 8 color-- only because sometimes when you print something else especially under flexisign flexi wont see the printer unless its in 8 color mode- so we switched back to 8 color.

Any of the EPsons will work if you need wider format- even a Roland SP300 or Mimaki works well for dye sub- they all share the same EPson print heads which are tried- and true for dye sub ink.

let me know what you want to do- format needed and I can add some addit information hopefully.

Joe

David Lavaneri
06-06-2008, 12:37 PM
"We use a korean ink and never have had a clogged head that couldnt be cleaned with a nozzle check."

Joe,

How/where are you buying Korean ink?

Since Sawgrass Technologies has cracked down on all companies (openly) selling sublimation ink in the U.S. (and other parts of the world?), the only availability of sublimation ink is Sublijet and ArTainium, both owned by Sawgrass.

Note: I have no affiliation with Sawgrass or any other sublimation supplier.

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri

Larry Bratton
06-08-2008, 8:49 PM
(I then bought an old HP laser jet black toner machine and have paid for it three times over in 90 days. I will not go back to inkjet sublimation.)

Mike I don't know a lot about sublimatation . . . yet but with the HP laser jet black toner machine, can you do the same as sublimation, or something similar. I am wanting to put the customer's pictures on cups, boxes, key chains, tiles ect. but I want to be able to do this in color. I can do this with my laser to some degree but I was just looking for other ways.
Zelma:
You might check into CLTT (Color Laser Toner Transfer). It requires an inexpensive laser printer, like an Okidata or Minolta, a heat press, and some CLTT transfer paper. It works really well on lots of things. Cactus Equipment sells all the paper etc. I don't know if I'm supposed to post a link here or not, so I won't. If you need more or want more information PM me and I'll send you the links.

Larry Bratton
06-08-2008, 8:58 PM
Zelma:
Here is a link to former thread here about CLTT.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=59182

Matt Wheeler
06-09-2008, 12:16 PM
"We use a korean ink and never have had a clogged head that couldnt be cleaned with a nozzle check."

Joe,

How/where are you buying Korean ink?

Since Sawgrass Technologies has cracked down on all companies (openly) selling sublimation ink in the U.S. (and other parts of the world?), the only availability of sublimation ink is Sublijet and ArTainium, both owned by Sawgrass.

Note: I have no affiliation with Sawgrass or any other sublimation supplier.

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri

I too am interested in another ink solution, we are having way too many issues with sublijet. haven't tried the arTanium, yet. Do you have an ICC profile with the korean inks?

David Lavaneri
06-09-2008, 4:34 PM
Matt,

The good old days of inexpensive sublimation ink (it's always been inexpensive, yet exorbitantly overpriced) are gone.

Sawgrass Technologies (through upholding their patents) has squelched US sales of all sublimation ink, (except their own) leaving you with a choice between Sublijet and ArTainium. That's it!

I didn't expect Joe to answer the where/how question, though I assume he's dealing directly with a Korean supplier.

With regard to ICC profiles, some colors ranges are easier to achieve than others, but for the most-part, sublimation ink has gotten to the point where you can successfully print transfers through your native print driver.

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri

joe daley
06-10-2008, 8:49 PM
Matt,

The good old days of inexpensive sublimation ink (it's always been inexpensive, yet exorbitantly overpriced) are gone.

Sawgrass Technologies (through upholding their patents) has squelched US sales of all sublimation ink, (except their own) leaving you with a choice between Sublijet and ArTainium. That's it!

I didn't expect Joe to answer the where/how question, though I assume he's dealing directly with a Korean supplier.

With regard to ICC profiles, some colors ranges are easier to achieve than others, but for the most-part, sublimation ink has gotten to the point where you can successfully print transfers through your native print driver.

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri


way back when we found this solution we THOUGHT we were gonna be millionaires- so we started selling ink on ebay- sev days later a 14 page sease and desist letter came from Sawgrass with more attorneys names on the letter head then actual type- we got the point.

I had no idea at the time which end was up with ink- never knew they had a gizillion patents on this stuff.

Bottom line is- Korea, China, Japan ALL make sub ink- you just have to be carefull where you buy from - as all ink is not the same. Trust me on this. Took years to find the right ink.

I own Sawgrass inks and we have our own profiles we use which work flawlessly. I just prefer the more affordable ink we use now.

I'd love to comment more but its a delicate subject. Drop me an email.
sales@palmimports.com

joe daley
06-10-2008, 8:55 PM
I too am interested in another ink solution, we are having way too many issues with sublijet. haven't tried the arTanium, yet. Do you have an ICC profile with the korean inks?

yes- many years of experimenting with both dye profiles AND profiles in AI has gotten us dead on for the most part with fairly accurate color rendition- we have the profiles down solid for accurate skin tone reproductions for ceramic tile- we manufacture for Lowes and most of the work is photos ( and I still dont understand this but-- MOST orders are for ceramic plawues for toomstones-- go figure)

There isnt one magical profile and setting that does it all unfortunately- depends on what ya need to do.

Bill Cunningham
06-10-2008, 10:21 PM
The reason most are ceramic Tombstone plaques, is because your price is probably reasonable.. I've had folks come in to get a photo etched into granite or marble, because the funeral home quoted SEVERAL HUNDRED dollars for a full colour ceramic insert..Which is 'really' a rip off! Get em while their vulnerable, and get em for lots!

David Lavaneri
06-11-2008, 1:58 AM
Joe,

Before the Sawgrass crackdown, whenever sublimation suppliers hit a "sweet spot" in an ink supplier, it was common that the majority of them would gravitate to that source.

Korea was a popular destination for quality ink, although, as you say, not all ink is created equal and the words "buyer beware" applied.

Thank you for replying to this touchy subject.

:)

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri

joe daley
06-11-2008, 5:08 AM
The reason most are ceramic Tombstone plaques, is because your price is probably reasonable.. I've had folks come in to get a photo etched into granite or marble, because the funeral home quoted SEVERAL HUNDRED dollars for a full colour ceramic insert..Which is 'really' a rip off! Get em while their vulnerable, and get em for lots!

thats probably it-this COULD probably be an interesting niche market here-weve been doing alot of the very thin oval ceramic plaques if you will- theyre paper thin and break easily but I guess they epoxy em on the toomstone.

Weve done alot of kitchens for custom tile and even a few complete bathroom shower walls--not sure how its gonna hold up over time though- especially in a bathroom or kitchen environment--- havnt had and calls- yet LOL

David Lavaneri
06-11-2008, 10:10 AM
because the funeral home quoted SEVERAL HUNDRED dollars for a full colour ceramic insert..Which is 'really' a rip off! Get em while their vulnerable, and get em for lots!

Bill,

The funeral industry does take advantage ($) but chances are the color images aren't sublimation, rather a kiln-fired product that will last infinitely longer than an ink jet sublimation product.

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri

James & Zelma Litzmann
06-11-2008, 10:21 AM
O.K. guys, thank you all for your information, it has truly helped.

I think I will more than likely try the CLTT system. I will look into the Konica Minolta 5450 Magicolor and do some research on the heat press, since I know nothing about any of this I will have to do this in baby steps. After all I had never heard of a "laser engraver" didn't know they existed but guess what . . . here we are two and one half years later and we've almost learned how to use it . . . . (that was indeed a joke). :)

Thanks again you are all still first class in my book!

Dee Gallo
06-11-2008, 11:12 AM
Hi! I have a Konica-Minolta color laser printer and it is SWEET machine! Makes fabulous prints, very fast, reliable and cheap to run relatively speaking. BUT- I have gotten transfer decal materials that stick and crumple up, even though they are supposed to run with no problems... must be the heat, I'm guessing. So, check out the materials you buy to make sure they are compatible with your printer and see if you can get a demo first - my printer is listed on the sheet as compatible but it isn't. The name of the company is Lazertran. Their inkjet materials are great, but I wouldn't use their laser stuff.

cheers, dee

Gary Shoemake
06-11-2008, 12:20 PM
i have a Konica Minolta 2500W and I use the transfers from Cactus supplies and they work real well, as with anything new process there is a curve. Mick Eminger has been more that helpful.

Richard Rumancik
06-11-2008, 12:35 PM
Hi! I have a Konica-Minolta color laser printer and it is SWEET machine! . . . BUT- I have gotten transfer decal materials that stick and crumple up . . . The name of the company is Lazertran.

I have been investigating Lazertran - thanks for the input - but just so that no one is confused, this is a different product again from CLTT or sublimation. It is more of a waterslide transfer technology, correct? It looks like it could have applications in this industry but just wanted to clarify that it was not CLTT technology.

joe daley
06-11-2008, 1:31 PM
Hi! I have a Konica-Minolta color laser printer and it is SWEET machine! Makes fabulous prints, very fast, reliable and cheap to run relatively speaking. BUT- I have gotten transfer decal materials that stick and crumple up, even though they are supposed to run with no problems... must be the heat, I'm guessing. So, check out the materials you buy to make sure they are compatible with your printer and see if you can get a demo first - my printer is listed on the sheet as compatible but it isn't. The name of the company is Lazertran. Their inkjet materials are great, but I wouldn't use their laser stuff.

cheers, dee
I Just ordered the 5450- Ive read that when you transfer to white items it leaves a grey shadow- is this true or do whites remaim relatively speaking- white?

Dee Gallo
06-11-2008, 2:40 PM
Rich - Yes, the Lazertran material I use is waterslide decals.

Joe - If you want to a permanent decal on wood for instance, you prep the surface with turpentine and apply the decal smoothing it CAREFULLY and quickly, or it will break up. When it dries, it will turn white. If you want the background clear, you give it a coat of poly and it changes to clear and stays clear. I'm trying to load a couple of pictures, but they don't want to go... at least there's one for you. This decal is actually 3" wide, and not as blurry as the picture looks... my poor photography skills.

I have not used Cactus, which I found out about after I got Lazertran, but i plan to try it to compare.

HTH, dee

joe daley
06-11-2008, 4:44 PM
Rich - Yes, the Lazertran material I use is waterslide decals.

Joe - If you want to a permanent decal on wood for instance, you prep the surface with turpentine and apply the decal smoothing it CAREFULLY and quickly, or it will break up. When it dries, it will turn white. If you want the background clear, you give it a coat of poly and it changes to clear and stays clear. I'm trying to load a couple of pictures, but they don't want to go... at least there's one for you. This decal is actually 3" wide, and not as blurry as the picture looks... my poor photography skills.

I have not used Cactus, which I found out about after I got Lazertran, but i plan to try it to compare.

HTH, dee

thanks- were primarily going onto a while ceramic/polymer surcafe- not convinced yet this is a subsititute for us for what we do but we can always use a new color laser in the warehouse- :)
Joe

Dee Gallo
06-11-2008, 5:08 PM
Joe, the literature says for ceramic or glass you just stick the decal on as is (wet) and coat it with any oil/spirit based finish (they recommend spray) to make it clear.

BTW - the pic I posted was inkjet, obviously not as clear and clean looking as laser, but also when you use the turpentine option, it "melts" the design into the wood for permanence.

With CLLT, don't you have to have a heated press to attach it?

I highly recommend the K-M laser printer, it is only 2 cents a page to use it, compared to anywhere from 5 to 10 cents for inkjet. Even though the cartridges cost more up front, you use them a lot longer and there are no nozzle problems like with my Epson if it's not used all the time. The better the paper you use, the better the quality print you get.

cheers, dee

Doug Jones from Oregon
06-12-2008, 9:55 AM
O.K. guys, thank you all for your information, it has truly helped.

I think I will more than likely try the CLTT system. I will look into the Konica Minolta 5450 Magicolor and do some research on the heat press, since I know nothing about any of this I will have to do this in baby steps. After all I had never heard of a "laser engraver" didn't know they existed but guess what . . . here we are two and one half years later and we've almost learned how to use it . . . . (that was indeed a joke). :)

Thanks again you are all still first class in my book!

Strongly suggest you give Mick and Cactus a call and arrange to email him an image to print a sample of so that you can see the results. Using one of your images gives you the opportunity to see the color by comparison.

Also, suggest again, talk to Mick regarding HIS recommended laser to purchase. He has nothing to gain on the hardware side of things, he does not sell them...you can gain by his experience and testing of many different platforms.

Good luck, I'm in the CLTT camp over inkjet sub.

Doug

Doug Jones from Oregon
06-12-2008, 10:00 AM
Dee, is safe to assume that you are working on unfinished wood base material? I would think the turpentine wash down prior to decal application would play havoc on the finish otherwise. This may be just the solution I've been looking for on my custom pen boxes... a way to put my logo on the box...

Doug

Dee Gallo
06-12-2008, 10:22 AM
Hi Doug,

Yes, I use it on unfinished wood, then the last coat of poly does the final trick. You can buff it over with steel wool and not hurt the decal if you want it smoother too. It's a very nice touch for your cases, that's what I use it for. My cases are walnut, so I have the bottoms made with a lighter wood to help the decal stand out better. I got the picture to load today - yay!

cheers, dee

joe daley
06-12-2008, 2:33 PM
anyone know who carries either dye sub toner or cltt cartridges for the minolta 5450?

THanks
Joe

David Lavaneri
06-12-2008, 4:37 PM
Joe,

CLTT (Color Laser Toner Transfer) uses stock (OEM) laser toner cartridges. It'
s the special transfer paper that works the magic.

For sublimation toner, you might try Coast Graphic Supply in Ventura, CA.

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri

Gary Shoemake
06-12-2008, 6:57 PM
THey both carry them on the east coast.

Doug Jones from Oregon
06-13-2008, 10:42 AM
I don't know about the 5450, but, Color Star has Sublimation toner carts for earlier Minolta lasers.

CLTT carts are OEM, the stuff that ships with the printer. I always buy OEM, not worth it for me to be the test monkey for 3rd party toners.

Doug

joe daley
06-13-2008, 12:26 PM
Joe,

CLTT (Color Laser Toner Transfer) uses stock (OEM) laser toner cartridges. It'
s the special transfer paper that works the magic.

For sublimation toner, you might try Coast Graphic Supply in Ventura, CA.

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
Thank you- had a great chat with Jim out at Coast --while they dont support the toner for the minolta they DO for the Oki and we happen to have a 5150 we can use for testing-

LOL I forgot to order that paper- guess I have to call em back-

THanks for the info
Joe

Larry Bratton
06-13-2008, 5:42 PM
I have a 5450 and it works just fine with the OEM ink. Secret is the paper. I have tried a couple of different one's and Mick's is the best.
http://www.cactus-equipment.com/

Liana Yu
06-18-2008, 1:21 PM
Hiyas! So I read up on this post, and the link to the CLTT thread and this got me interested. So can someone give me a summary of the pros and cons comparison between Dye Sublimation Toner verse Color Laser Toner Transfer on a color laser printers? I engrave a lot on metal with cermark, anodized aluminum, and acrylic and if I can add color to them, it would be a great addition.

Phil Salvati
06-18-2008, 5:51 PM
A little tip for those of you who don't use their printers as often as you like. There is a pad to the right of the printer (mine is a Epson 4800) Where the print head carriage sits when it is idle. If you keep that pad wet with "Simple Green" it will help to keep the heads from clogging. Also keep your machine turned on 24 hours a day. We hardly ever have a clog, and don't use one of the printers as much as we would like.

Phil

AL Ursich
06-18-2008, 9:39 PM
Phil,

That sounds like a GREAT TIP.... Simple GREEN....

Thanks,

AL