Tannewitz Table Saw Advice

[Matt Hutchinson]

Hello, I usually hang out in the turner forum, and I am looking for some advice. I am hoping you all might be able to tell me whether this tablesaw is a good purchase. I am trying to get a woodturning/woodworking business off the ground, and I have very limited equipment. I am in the process of acquiring more tools, and though this might be a little overkill, the price seems good. Opinions? Pros and cons? Thanks.

http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/tls/704840554.html

Hutch

P.S. I e-mailed the seller and he said it is a tilting arbor saw, but he doesn't know the specs on the motor.

[Jamie Buxton]

Is it 3-phase? (Likely, I think.) Do you have 3-phase?

[Joe Jensen]

They are acknowledged to the king of cabinet style saws. I suspect it's physically larger than you realize. Unless you were doing a lot of work with 4-5" thick stock, I think it would be way overkill. Having said that, I suspect a replacement is $10-15K...joe

[Simon Dupay]

All I know is that is one of the best table saws out there you won't ever want to replace it.

[Peter Quinn]

Can't offer much specific advise except if you buy it, make sure the floor in your shop is very solid, and you will need more than two friends to lift it!:D:D:D

[Matt Hutchinson]

Yes, I figure that it is HUGE. I have seen a number of large saws, and I think it will fit nicely in the right stall of my garage. :D Honestly, it's such a nice saw, I know it would never need to be replaced, and it is hard to pass up. If I do purchase it, I figure I will be able to resell it fairly easily if needed.

As far as the phase goes, I don't have 3 phase, but I would find a way to afford a rotary phase converter if I got it. Because I am still purchasing tools, a rotary converter would give me the flexibility to continue to buy industrial equipment if I desired. But finances are very limited...

Hutch

[Joe Jensen]

Hutch, sounds like you are prepared for the size. Given that, I say go for it. If nothing else, clean it up and sell it for $3K to buy whatever you want :)

[Rob Russell]

Hutch,

If you're up for the 3-phase route - once you have that problem solved (and a rotary phase convertor is 1 good solution) - you'll be able to pickup other industrial quality machinery at lower cost than the single-phase versions.

IMO :D

Rob

[Matt Hutchinson]

Rob and Joe, that's kinda what I am thinking.

As far as phase conversion solutions, the main reason I would try for the rotary is what Rob said, future machine purchases.

And Joe, I am trying to figure out why it's selling for so low. The seller doesn't seem to know very much about it, so I am guessing that it wasn't used by him. I plan on playing with the machine in person, and then I will know if there is a catch.

[Jeff Duncan]

A couple thoughts on the Tanny, they are certainly workhorses and great saws for certain things. I've spent a fair amount of time on one and can't say anything bad about them, however they are certainly not for everyone.
As said already they do require 3 phase and a good amount of floor space, they also require larger blades, not a bad thing, but you'll be spending more $$$ for every blade you buy including dado sets. They won't allow you to use the many aftermarket accessories that fit your standard Uni style cabinet saw. It also will likely be lacking any safety equipment. And there is a chance that it''s been used hard, that's what they are designed for, and may need repairs.
When I had access to the Tanny we also had several Uni's, a 66', and an old Oliver available. The only time we used the Tanny was for ripping large quantities of stock where we would bolt a power feed and run stuff all day. It's a beast of a saw, but for that reason it was also not the first choice for most guys when doing day to day cuts. For that the 66 was first choice followed by the Uni's.
Lastly don't expect it to be an easy saw to unload, there are always Tanny's floating around for sale b/c they are not nearly as desirable to the masses as the smaller saws. That may be the reason this saw is selling so low, b/c there's just not a lot of buyers for them right now. You may be able to turn it around and resell it for $3k if it's in great shape and you find the right buyer at the right time. Then again you may be holding on to it for quite a while if you decide to sell.
Anyway those are just a few of my thoughts, good luck with whatever you decide to do.
JeffD

[Steven Wilson]

Matt, what are you planing on doing with that saw? What is it going to do for your business? How does it fit in with your production processes? If you're going to buy it for a business then it needs to fullfil a purpose. If I want to cut thick stock for turning and such then I would look for a large Bandsaw and a 14-16" jointer. It would be a neat saw to have just wondering for what though.

[Matt Hutchinson]

Jeff and Steve, you both bring up good points. But that's part of the problem with figuring out whether or not to buy the saw.....I don't know what I will be needing it for. I would be using it mostly as a regular everyday cabinet saw, but I want to specialize in architectural turning. I don't know how often I will be needing to saw large chunks of wood, but I have already had a couple jobs that could have been accomplished easier if I had a large saw. It's tough to figure out. I also do a lot of large bowl turning. Maybe it does make more sense to invest in a super bandsaw.

But I keep coming back to one thing....cost. I am having difficulty firguring out if it's more cost effective to buy this saw, get a phase converter, and be able to buy more 3 phase equipment OR if the cost of obtaining accessories will offset any benefits.

(In my high school shop I regularly used an old Oliver industrial tablesaw. It had a rack and pinion fence and I loved it. If this saw's fence is as nice as that one, it will be hard to pass up.)

Another thing.... do you think there are any common procedures that would be more difficult with a machine like this? Thanks for the input.

Hutch

[Cary Falk]

I have seen some pretty nice ones of these restored on the OWWM. They do have a coolness factor. I would consider parts availability if this is for a business. I rebuilt UNI but would have not taken it on had the network of used parts been there. Even then it was nerve wracking tring to locating a cheap part. I think the price is a little high (for me)but it does say OBO.

[Steven Wilson]

Matt, for large chunks of wood I would love to have a 36" bandsaw sporting a 1.5-2" Lennox Trimaster. It's surprising how well bandsaws can rip wood accurately. Now, an old Northfield, Tannawitz, Oliver or other large bandsaw coupled with a large aircraft carrier jointer, and a beast of a planer will be able to surface any large chunk of wood you can to throw at them - better than a tablesaw. If you're looking at obtain old big iron then investing in a good rotary phase converter would be the ticket as almost all of these machines are three phase. As for the tablesaw, I'm sure it would operate as well as the more pedestrian Unisaw's and PM66's however you may want to install a different fence depending on how you like to work. If you were wanting to do cabinets then I might consider the Tannawitz or a sliding table saw.

[Simon Dupay]

I would at least go and check it out and see if it the right saw for you.

[Matt Hutchinson]

Yes, an in-person "test fit" is definitely required. I am probably going to see it in the next day or two, and after inspecting every moving part, then I will really have something to go by. If I approach it and it gives me some attitude, then forget it. But if it hums sweetly in my ear, then it's found a new home. Although, I am still waiting to hear if any of you all think there are any operations that would be very problematic on this saw.

Hutch

P.S. I think if I regularly had to do a lot of crosscutting I might have some ergonomic issues. I would have to lean over quite far to complete the cuts. I am rather short.

[Jim Thiel]

...I am still waiting to hear if any of you all think there are any operations that would be very problematic on this saw.



No problems, only opportunities for solutions.

It looks like he might have gotten it at auction, as it's on moving dollies. Does he have power available?

I've seen it pop up for a few months now, when he gets desperate, you might get it for a song.

Jim

[Matt Hutchinson]

Just talked to the guy, and I found out that he got it when Kindel moved one of its furniture making operations. He doesn't use it at all, and that's why he doesn't know much about it off the top of his head. He's a real nice guy, and the only reason he is selling it is cuz it's huge, he's cramped for space, and he does mostly metal working. He's had a few people come to look at it, but nothing has panned out. He has a hi-lo that could load it onto a trailer for me, but I would be on my own after that. Although, after moving my massive old lathe (check out the pics in my user profile), I think I have some good ideas as to how to get it onto the ground.

Otherwise, he has given me great confidence that this is a beauty of a machine. Unfortunately, there is a major unknown detail: Is the motor 230/460V, or just 460V. I am keeping my fingers crossed....

Hutch

[Jeff Duncan]

The motor can be rewired from 440v to 220v or you can get a transformer to modify voltages. Sometime you can find them cheaply in the local classifieds or online auction sites, either way an additional expenses, but not a deal breaker IMO.
As for your wondering about problematic operations, none come to mind. In general a saw like a Uni or 66 is IMO a bit easier in day to day operations. I love arn and I'm not trying to dissuade you, but my experience was the cabinet saws were just more user friendly. When I worked at the shop with the Tanny we used it primarily for ripping large volumes. We used the Oliver just for crosscutting as it had the sliding tables. And the Uni's
and 66 were the workhorses for general purpose cuts.
The thing I find with bigger machinery is that although it's better in most respects than it's smaller cousins. There are times when a smaller tool is just more convenient. That's the reason (I believe) so many arn guys end up with multiple tools, and why even though I've upgraded to a 16" jointer, I still have a little 6" for those smaller tasks that just don't seem worth firing up the monster for.
Anyway that's all just my opinion for what it's worth. Let us know how you make out.
JeffD

[David G Baker]

Matt,
I have a tendency to overkill on a lot of things I purchase and would probably buy the saw if it was in my neighborhood if I gave it a thorough look over. The only problems that I can think of is if it needed any replacement parts I would check the availability and cost prior to committing to buying the saw and things already mentioned in other posts.

[Joe Meazle]

Matt,
I have a Tannewitz 16" bandsaw from the 80's. It is kind of a rare bird, one that small. I have emailed Tannewitz about and parts and what that have is usually what I would consider to be expensive. It has not been a problem since most of what I needed in my rebuild was available aftermarket and pretty standard sizes, things like tires, bearings sheaves, belts, electricals. Fortunately I didn't really need and proprietary parts. I would think that unless she has been mishandled or abused or cannibalized that you may have a similar situation.

Good Luck,
Joe

[Frank Drew]

My understanding is that Tannewitz no longer supports their older equipment apart from bandsaws; among other reasons, I think liability issues have had a chilling effect on some of the manufacturers.

I'd love to have a Tannewitz bandsaw but personally would probably choose another table saw, for the reasons Jeff Duncan cites. These big old tablesaws excelled at cutting miles of stock to the same width, all day every day, not necessarily doing the variety of tasks you might find yourself doing -- rip a couple of boards, crosscut some others, maybe cut some dadoes, then rip a few more to a different width.....

I think you'd love the saw for what it was but might wish for something more flexible.

No harm in going to look at it, though.

[Matt Hutchinson]

True. I have to agree with a lot of what people are saying. For the cost of the saw and a rotary phase converter I could get a cabinet saw and 8" jointer from Grizzly. Right now the only reason I would get it is if I knew I would be getting more 3 phase machines. The same seller has a huge Oliver bandsaw, and I am hoping that I can convince him to sell it to me instead of the tablesaw. In that case, it would definitely be worth the cost of a converter. As you said, no harm in looking at it tomorrow. It will give me a chance to eye the bandsaw as well.

Hutch

P.S. I think other people who went to look at the tablesaw wanted to buy the bandsaw also, so I don't know that I could get him to let it go.....but it's worth a try.

[Peter Quinn]

Forget all practical thinking. If there were anything practical about this tool it would be selling for a lot more money. I have an old industrial Dewalt RAS that is much bigger than I need, but it has become my mascot. I love it. I'd sooner expand my shop than sell it to make room. I think you'd have to go into timber framing for this saw to start to make logical sense. Question is does it speak to you? Is it calling your name?

"Hutch, Hutch, its me Tanny, can you hear me Hutch?"

I know its a business, but not every tool has to make perfect sense. That's how big, wealthy corporations run. Us poor wood workers sometimes do things just because it pleases us! So if it makes you happy, I say make it happen. If not, start looking for a northfield. Clearly you have an attraction to BIG ARN!

[Matt Hutchinson]

Peter, you are a man after my own heart! Oh how this saw would make me happy. Unfortunately, money is a serious issue right now, otherwise I wouldn't even be having this debate! :) How I do love the old iron......

Hutch

[Roger Lance]

Matt...I'd like to invite you to the last local woodworkers guild meeting before the summer break...we'll meet June 10th at Johnson's Workbench on Burton at 7:00 PM...bring a friend...there are guild members who are into old iron...hope to see you there.

[Matt Hutchinson]

Thanks for the info Roger. I would really enjoy meeting others in the woodworking community. I actually live very close to the Workbench, and I would love to sit in. See you Tuesday!

Hutch

[Matt Hutchinson]

Looked at the saw today, and though it was in decent shape, it just didn't catch me in a way that would cause me to buy it. The fence had a little play in it, even after it was locked down, though I imagine this could be fixed easy enough. But the long and the short of the issue is that it couldn't prove it's worth to me, so I couldn't be comfortable buying it. If it were in a little better shape I may have taken it.

Hutch