Forrest Hitting Skids?

[FRITZ STOOP]

I just got a WOODWORKER I blade from Forrest and it came "DULL"!!!
It had never had its finish sharpening! So after a $125 I had to pay for sharpening. A guy with a shop in my building had the same problem and the 90 year old company that does my sharpening tells me they're seeing all kinds of problems with Forrest products.
Anyone else seeing this. Hate to see an old, quality company lose it.:(

[Jason Beam]

Is there some reason you didn't complain to them and have them fix the problem?

[FRITZ STOOP]

I did complain to them and they're thinking about it.

Do you work for them? Companies do not live forever. Forrest is on the third generation and as you probably know.

FES

[Dewey Torres]

Go with the Freud (maybe) next time???

Dewey

[peter de tappan]

I bought a Forrest WWII blade from Rockler last year and the blade was covered with a black pitch like substance and several teeth had carbide slivers protruding into the gullets. Rockler replaced the blade but they were never given an explanation from Forrest as to how that blade ever could have left the factory.
I'm done with Forrest. Long live Ridge Carbide.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

It must be hard to compete in this market with all the offerings. For example, Freud is marketing more and more types of blades for all situations and pocketbooks. I have always been pleased with Freud products.

Forrest Blades are located in northern New Jersey. That's a very high cost of living area, especially for a manufacturing plant these days. It must be hard.

-Jeff :)

[Peter Quinn]

Sounds Iffy. My Forrest is due for sharpening, and I bought a Ridge Carbide as a back up while its out, mostly due to price offered at industrial wood working expo. Wondering if I should keep sending them back to Forrest, or do as the Ridge guy suggested and send them to him?

If I paid as much for a blade as Forrest charges and it came dull they WOULD be getting it back to fix, if I had to drive to Jersey and chuck it at them. I got a set of Freud jointer knives once that came, lets say, not so sharp as I'm used to, no big deal there. But a carbide TS blade?

Oh. BTW, that Ridge TS blade is one of the best cutting blades I have ever put in my TS.

[scott spencer]

Forrest makes some good blades and fetches a premium for them, but even though I haven't had any issues, I have been hearing about more quality issues lately than I recall in the past. It seems more complaints for Forrest exist than for most other premium names like Infinity, Ridge Carbide, Tenryu, Freud, etc. The number of complaints can be explained somewhat by total number of blades sold, but I doubt they sell more blades than Freud. Maybe they're making more blades than they can currently handle... :confused:

[Chris Barnett]

Was it purchased directly from Forrest? Have purchased two WWI and two WWII and a dado set recently from them. Nary a problem. Started to buy another WII from Amazon for $73 but procrastinated...price went back up. Waiting and watching...am so satisfied with Forrest that I will not try another blade, unless I can find a Ridge Carbide for cheap to try out.
Am curious why you would pay $125 including shipping when Amazon just has had them on sale for $92 with free shipping?

[Mike SoRelle]

I got one not too long ago via amazon and the thing was sharp enough that I nearly tore myself up just getting the plastic tooth covering off and shaved off a few arm hairs while installing it

[Jeff Duncan]

I've got well over a dozen blades from 10" to 14" and have only had one problem in the last 10 years. That was a blade that came back from sharpening leaving a ragged edge on the fence side. Just sent it back with the next batch and they took care of it.
Seeing as you bought yours direct from Forrest they should not give you any trouble with a replacement. Not sure who's "thinking about it" but don't wait for a response. If the first person on the phone doesn't resolve it start climbing up the chain until someone does. As for the blade bought from Rockler, this is just a guess, but I'm thinking someone very cleverly swapped the new blade for their old blade and returned it, and the store never checked the box. Having worked in retail I know this crap happens all too often.

JeffD

[FRITZ STOOP]

This blade came direct from Forrest.

I have had great success with Tenryu (http://www.tenryu.com/). Tenryu also bevels the face of each tooth, where most others leave the face at 90deg. to the plate. This seems to help achieve a very, very smooth cut.
And they are more reasonably priced!
On to Tenryu

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Try Ridge Carbide.

[scott spencer]

This blade came direct from Forrest.

I have had great success with Tenryu (http://www.tenryu.com/). Tenryu also bevels the face of each tooth, where most others leave the face at 90deg. to the plate. This seems to help achieve a very, very smooth cut.
And they are more reasonably priced!
On to Tenryu

Fritz - Tenryu makes alot of blades. Some feature an alternating face bevel that they label an "ATAF" (alternating top alternating face)...their Chinese made Rapid Cut RS25540 for < $35 is one such blade, but their $90 Japanese made Gold Medal blade has a more standard configuration that's closer to that of the WWII, TS2000, and other top 40T general purpose blades. It's also worth noting that their Gold Medal comes in one kerf choice...0.111"...kind of a "mid kerf". Holbren (http://www.holbren.com/product.php?productid=123&cat=54&page=1) sells it for ~ $80 shipped with "SMC10" code....he also sells the American made TS2000 in two kerf widths for that price.

Hope you'll pursue a return or repair on the Forrest even if you go with a Tenryu or other....you're certainly entitled to one or the other from Forrest. Ask for "Charles" from Forrest...he'll make things right for you.

[Pat Germain]

Let's not be too hard on Forrest. Any company can have problems now and then. What matters is how they resolve them. I think most folks would agree Forrest makes very good blades. Some people prefer other brands and that's cool. I don't think this incident, or even a few others, are reason to completely give up on Forrest.

I have a WWII which I dog hard. I've had it sharpened once by a local guy who did a great job. It continues to serve me well.

[Daniel Berlin]

I got one not too long ago via amazon and the thing was sharp enough that I nearly tore myself up just getting the plastic tooth covering off and shaved off a few arm hairs while installing it
Same here.
I actually have a permanent scar on my finger because it cut me so deep changing the blade when it slipped.

(Yes, i have a blade lock now :P)

[Ken Shoemaker]

I on the other hand, bought a WWII and hated it. Hangs on a wall next to a Harbor Freight drill bit set...:mad:

[John Hedges]

Interesting thread, after my experience with them earlier this year it will be a LONG time before I give them any more of my business. I sent a Chopmaster in for some repairs (chipped teeth etc. Long story). Anyway I wanted to know an estimate before the repair to see if it was worth repairing. After 3 weeks I still hadn't heard anything so I called. The guy told me that he looked and they never received my blade. So I got out my UPS tracking number and found out that it was delivered to Forrest 2 days after I sent it. So I called back and magically they found it. To make a long story short I kept having to call back (6 TIMES) to get them to repair the blade (they just kept forgetting). So after 2 and a half months I finally got my blade back. I really get the feeling that had I not called and called and called I would still not have my blade today.

The impression I got was that either they don't care about my business, or they are so overwhelmed that they cant run things right. Either way I think I'll steer clear for a while.

[Norman Pyles]

If I recieved a dull blade, I would just return it.

[Joe Jensen]

I on the other hand, bought a WWII and hated it. Hangs on a wall next to a Harbor Freight drill bit set...:mad:

They are quite popular, maybe you should put it on EBAY

[Scott Vigder]

I own two WWII blades and had issues with servicing each of them, but I would still purchase Forrest products.

I find the cut impeccable.

They last a long time.

My issues were resolved promptly, courteously, and professionally. They initiated phone calls to me to make sure we had communicated properly and understood what I needed. I was very impressed with this level of customer service.

I hope a few bad experiences won't turn off potential new customers.

[Per Swenson]

Hello all,

We use Forrest Blades in all our miter saws, and in our table saw.

Switching to a stock blade when sent out for sharpening.

Never a issue for us.

With that being said, first due to a issue on another forum,

let me state I am not a paid Forrest fella, nor due I receive any gratuities
from them, in lieu of a positive opinion.

I did take the liberty of E mailing the VP at Forrest, (His e-mail is right there on the Forrest page)to bring his attention to this thread.

I received a response that he was now aware of it.

I can relate to a company sometimes not living up to expectations,

Happens to us quite frequently. But what we do first before taking or grudge to the intertubes, is take our issue all the way up the company's ladder to see if the problem can be rectified.

As was noted above, all it takes is one employee with a really bad day,
to ruin a company's reputation in this era of instant communication.

I wouldn't give up on Forrest Products just yet.

Per Swenson

[Joe Jensen]

Hello all,

We use Forrest Blades in all our miter saws, and in our table saw.

Switching to a stock blade when sent out for sharpening.

Never a issue for us.

With that being said, first due to a issue on another forum,

let me state I am not a paid Forrest fella, nor due I receive any gratuities
from them, in lieu of a positive opinion.

I did take the liberty of E mailing the VP at Forrest, (His e-mail is right there on the Forrest page)to bring his attention to this thread.

I received a response that he was now aware of it.

I can relate to a company sometimes not living up to expectations,

Happens to us quite frequently. But what we do first before taking or grudge to the intertubes, is take our issue all the way up the company's ladder to see if the problem can be rectified.

As was noted above, all it takes is one employee with a really bad day,
to ruin a company's reputation in this era of instant communication.

I wouldn't give up on Forrest Products just yet.

Per Swenson

What a concept, actually contacting the manufacturer? Wow ;)

Wish the OP had done so and reported back...joe

[Gabriel Regalbuto]

Never liked my WWII. It leaves a smooth finish - burned smooth. Forrest told me it was normal with contractor's saws and I should just raise the blade to max height and cut that way... no thanks.

My Freud combo works great.

My favorite blade, however, is a little 7.25" Freud Diablo. Big enough for almost all the cutting I do. Thin kerf NEVER bogs down my contractor's saw. Makes half the dust. Finish is glueable, maybe not the best, but quite good.

[Jason Beam]

What a concept, actually contacting the manufacturer? Wow ;)

Wish the OP had done so and reported back...joe

Careful, now! Don't get snarky!

I'd still like to know what "I did and they're thinking about it" means. Fritz?

[Ben Cadotte]

I just got my first Forrest not too long ago when Amazon had a good sale. I have not had a chance to use it yet. Due to some other posts about Forrest I did take a good look at the blade before hanging it on the wall. All seemed to be fine with it. The other posts concerned tips not being brazed propperly. One was shipped with one missing, one with one obviously loose.

I don't work for Forrest nor am I making excuses. But quality control in a manufacturing environment is not an easy job. I don't know have fast they move blades through their plant. But its not an easy job as you might think. I work as an aircraft inspector. So I have quite a bit of experience in inspecting things. The one thing I can point out is doing quality checks on saw blades day in and day out would be a tougher job than you think. It takes concentration to continously check the same thing over and over again. Pretty soon everything starts looking the same. And yes, things that have obvious defects can get missed. I run into this on large sheetmetal repairs. Where there are litterally hundreds of rivits and fasteners that need checking. If you loose your concentration you can look straight at a bad one and miss it. I am lucky as I am always checking different things. But in the factory, its the same thing day after day.

Now what about other manufacturers that have seemingly few complaints about? Well my only idea about that is Forrest seems to do alot of things by hand. I am assuming they also inspect by hand. Larger mass producing companies like Freud may use an automatic optical scanner to check their products. And yes its most likely more accurate.

The only thing that Forrest can do is to ensure that their customer service is up to the task of the few bad ones that do get through.

[Vince Shriver]

Oh. BTW, that Ridge TS blade is one of the best cutting blades I have ever put in my TS.

I agree, Ridge blades are excellent.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

let me state I am not a paid Forrest fella, nor due I receive any gratuities
from them, in lieu of a positive opinion.

Per, you may have to recues yourself. I did an internet genealogy study of the Swenson family name. Turns out that Adam Swenson married Eve Forrest back before the big tectonic plate shift.

Just some Freudian humor,

-Jeff :)

[FRITZ STOOP]

:confused:I am amazed at how some folks will make excuses for businesses in which they have no interest beyond buying their products. Forrest has a fine reputation, but that does not relieve them from the responsibility of consistently living up to it.

Resting on one's laurels has consequences in the real world.

I have owned several businesses, the last of which was taken public in 2000. It had offices in several countries and the world was thick with copycats and competitors. We made a tremendous effort to establish solid brand recognition and an equal effort maintaining it.

Forrest no doubt earned it's fine reputation. But there should be no excuses for poor performance in producing their blades. Maintaining consistent high quality is a hallmark of successful businesses and as such, they should immediately get after solving these problems. And not send responses like this when a situation occurs:

"Dear Fritz,

I am very sorry to hear about unhappy customer.
With highly increased volume of our production there is always possibility of defective blade reaching our customers. Although we are doing our best to avoid situations like the one you are talking about.
If you will, I can issue UPS Return service label for you so we can repair the problem (most likely replacing your blade) at no charge to you.
Please let me know what do you intend to do.

Sincerely,

Ted Rogozinski, SV
Forrest Mfg Co
973.473.5236 x 315
ted@forrestman.com

Does that mean that they a just too darn successful to keep up with quality???

It's called QUALITY CONTROL, Ted.

Every blade that goes out of there should be handled and inspected by a qualified person before leaving the site. These are not widgets, these are expensive, precision tools that businesses, large and small depend on to achieve the same high quality for their products. And, there are definitely several other very good competitors.

This was not a "defective" blade. This was a blade that had not gone through its entire manufacturing process. And similar stories are littering the customer base.

I was forced to have someone else complete the manufacturing of this blade for which I paid top dollar. And I do not have time to send it back and forth to Forrest because they were too lazy to finish it.

Forrest has also been criticized for using a carbide steel that is too hard as to be brittle. The blades, if they survive, hold an edge longer. But many do not and face repair. It a decision they have decided to live with despite the criticism. So I don't even use them when milling Bubinga or Ipe.

For the curious, here's a link to an extensive hardness chart:
http://tinytimbers.com/pdf/chart_janka.pdf

Based on that email, I'm sticking with Everlast or Tenryu. They are as good as Forrest and 40% less.:p

[Chris Padilla]

Seems like a reasonable way to handle your situation, Fritz. I don't know what more they could do for you but enjoy your Everlast and Tenryu blades and I sure hope they don't ship you a bad blade!! ;)

For the record, I do not own any Forrest blades and don't have any plans to. I have CMT and Freud and am happy with those.

[Ben Cadotte]

I agree with their blades being sold at a premium, none should come out of the factory with a problem. But I can also see some bad ones making it out of the plant. Like anything else their costs are going up for materials and energy supplies. I have not noticed a jump in their pricing. They may have made cuts in other areas to contend with the higher supply prices. And maybe that is hurting quality??? Only they know what is going on.


I have only purchased one blade from them. And that was only due to it being discounted. Being a hobbiest, paying full price for one, when I can get blades that seem as good for half as much, is not an option for me. I have several Freuds and am happy with them. Once I try the Forrest I will make a determination then if its worth the money (what I paid at discount). And after some extended use, determine if they are worth the full price they normally sell at.

[Jason Beam]

Seems like a reasonable way to handle your situation, Fritz. I don't know what more they could do for you but enjoy your Everlast and Tenryu blades and I sure hope they don't ship you a bad blade!! ;)

For the record, I do not own any Forrest blades and don't have any plans to. I have CMT and Freud and am happy with those.

Agreed - and likewise: I have no Forrest blades and no intention of buying any. I'm actually a Tenryu fan, myself :D

But, Fritz, c'mon. You weren't forced to pay someone else to fix the problem. You were presented with a polite apology and a request for the opportunity to make good on what they sold to you. You didn't like that solution and chose another avenue. That isn't Forrest's fault. They offered to replace it. Your actions following their offer are yours, not theirs.

I agree it's inconvenient, but I've learned long ago not to expect perfection from humans. It's a lost cause. Human beings make mistakes, no matter how hard they try not to. Forrest has a reputation for trying really hard not to mess up. Plus, they back up their products as your email clearly shows. If nothing else, you've shown that they did step up and offer to fix the problem - they didn't leave you high and dry like one might expect a bad company to do.

I'm sorry this happened. But you can't expect perfection 100% of the time.

[Norman Pyles]

Seems like a reasonable way to handle your situation, Fritz. I don't know what more they could do for you but enjoy your Everlast and Tenryu blades and I sure hope they don't ship you a bad blade!! ;)

For the record, I do not own any Forrest blades and don't have any plans to. I have CMT and Freud and am happy with those.

+1..........:)

[Ken Garlock]

Some time last fall I sent in one WW-II blade for resharpening and "de-warping". Today I swapped the WW-II in the saw for the resharpened blade. I was amazed at the difference. What I thought was just the hardness of the sugar maple I had been cutting was in reality just a badly dulled blade. The reworked blade cuts through 3" thick maple just like a knife through butter. The blade I took off will be in the mail to Forrest for a refurbishment in the near future.

IMO, I will keep buying Forrest blades or until I get a bad blade, or some twists my arm to buy some other brand.

[J.R. Rutter]

I have 2 Chopmasters that I run in my finish crosscut station in my production shop. When I was first starting up, I tried a lot of different "industrial quality" finish miter blades and found the Forrest to be the best. I only need to swap out for sharpening every 6 months or so. That's with about 15 hours per week cutting hardwoods, including jatoba (which is very hard on blades). One of my customers at a large cabinet shop stopped me last month to ask how I got the ends of solid slab drawer faces so smooth...

Anyway, let's hope that the perceived quality issues are a matter of internet amplification and not a systematic decline.

[Dave MacArthur]

Interesting thread from a perspective of what level of quality control vs. mitigation is acceptable to different folks. I was actually thinking "boo Forrest!" until I got to the end and read the email they sent Fritz Stoop... while I'd be irked to get a bad new blade on purchase, I have to say I'd be pretty happy with Ted's email--that would 99% defuse me. A credit for a free sharpening in the future (if it was offered) would have made me a fan.

I also never thought to use a 7.5 " CS blade in my TS... that might be worth a try.

[FRITZ STOOP]

Agreed - and likewise: I have no Forrest blades and no intention of buying any. I'm actually a Tenryu fan, myself :D

But, Fritz, c'mon. You weren't forced to pay someone else to fix the problem. You were presented with a polite apology and a request for the opportunity to make good on what they sold to you. You didn't like that solution and chose another avenue. That isn't Forrest's fault. They offered to replace it. Your actions following their offer are yours, not theirs.

I agree it's inconvenient, but I've learned long ago not to expect perfection from humans. It's a lost cause. Human beings make mistakes, no matter how hard they try not to. Forrest has a reputation for trying really hard not to mess up. Plus, they back up their products as your email clearly shows. If nothing else, you've shown that they did step up and offer to fix the problem - they didn't leave you high and dry like one might expect a bad company to do.

I'm sorry this happened. But you can't expect perfection 100% of the time.

I have never, ever received an Everlast or a Tenryu that was not in top condition, nor have I heard of one. FORREST MAKES SAW BLADES. These are not robotic laser surgery machines. These are inanimate objects with no moving parts! They charge nearly 50% more than their competitors.

Then, instead of sending a new blade overnight, they offer to sharpen it. So (instead of putting it on my saw and working on a time sensitive job), I box it up, go stand in line at the post office, then go wait a week or more until I get it back. I didn't buy it because I didn't need it. i bought it for a specific reason. At a specific time. A reason that demanded the highest quality. So, based on their reputation, I paid the premium.

That's why reputation are so valuable. Once you earn them, you charge for it. BUT YOU ARE NOT RELIEVED OF ANY RESPONSIBILITY, YOU HAVE MORE THAN EVER.

Apologists for these guys drive me nuts!

As far as being "forced to have someone else fix them problem". They took my money without hesitation and as far as I have heard, I have not been offered overnight service or a refund. Instead I was offered a likely two week delay.

'Nuf said. I'll vote with my feet!

[Rich Konopka]

I just got a WOODWORKER I blade from Forrest and it came "DULL"!!!
It had never had its finish sharpening! So after a $125 I had to pay for sharpening. A guy with a shop in my building had the same problem and the 90 year old company that does my sharpening tells me they're seeing all kinds of problems with Forrest products.
Anyone else seeing this. Hate to see an old, quality company lose it.:(

Fritz,

I'm sorry to hear about your WW1 woes. I have purchased several Forrest blades with no issues and I have found them to be very good In fact, I just purchased and received this week 2 Forrest WW2 blades for my little Makita trim saw. They arrived nicely packaged and the carbide tips were coated in plastic to protect them. By any chance was your blade properly coated?

The blade came with a folded manual and instructions with Jim Forrest picture on it. It quotes ' You can Count on Us for Quality, Performance, and Dependability!". Hold them to it and call Jim Forrest him self. Note the blade number and have them look into it.

Good Luck !!