The Best Smooth Plane You Have Ever Used

[Brian Kent]

Searching for the best Smooth Plane you have used (not the best review you have read.)

What works best for you, for the woods you use?

I am searching, making planes, reading, and have bought a couple.
I want to see which direction to save for or plan to make or restore.

[Jeff Aldred]

Hi Brian:
I made a Shepherd smoother from a kit. While there are lots of things wrong with it, there are many things right about it, and for my needs, its the big gun.
The interesting thing about having made the plane, if there is something wrong, you know it can be fixed. That takes the onus squarely on the manufacterer (me!)

[Brian Kent]

Is Shepherd the infill kit company that is no longer around?

[Dale Osowski]

For me it's Japanese without a doubt. They work well on hardwood and soft, I work mainly with hardwoods. I sold all my LN's except for a couple and invested the money in more Japanese planes. IMHO you can achive a better surface with Japanese planes. So far my best plane is a 120mm made by Yamamoto-san.

[Ray Gardiner]

Is Shepherd the infill kit company that is no longer around?

Apparently...

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ToolGuide/ToolGuideArticle.aspx?id=25620

I am also interested in making an infill.

[Don Naples]

Mathieson as it has a tighter throat then the Norris I have.
I mostly use it on Jatoba, Bubinga and figured Maple.

[Raney Nelson]

My new favorite is a Norris A5 style infill I made. To be honest, though, I can't really claim it's objectively any better than my LN 4-1/2 - either one will handle anything but the most inerlocked or heavily reversing grain, and as long as the LN mouth is closed up nice and tight they both perform pretty comparable, and move into 'tearout' territory at about the same time.

Mine is a bit more comfortable to my hand, though...

[mike holden]

Best one I ever used was a Sauer & Steiner at the MWTCA meet last summer. But, I dont have the "discretionary funds" necessary for purchase. My Lie Nielsen #4 works just fine.
Mike

[Jim Koepke]

All the planes but a few in my shop are Stanleys or old wooden molding planes.

Surely there are others much better. The heavier blade on my Union No. 4 is what got me to try some Hock blades.

I guess as far as best plane ever used, it would have to be the Bridge City Tools HP-7, amazing shoulder plane. As it was pushed along the edge of some wood, it felt like the blade was not in contact. When I looked to see how to adjust the blade, there was a translucent shaving coming off the blade.

It gave me the feeling that if it was set on a board and one end was lifted, it could make shavings with just the assistance of gravity.

Planes like this are in a different league than the Stanley planes that do so well for me. Maybe someday I will be able to own one of these, until then, making do with what is at hand is what people have done for ages.

jim

[Brian Kent]

For me it's Japanese without a doubt. They work well on hardwood and soft, I work mainly with hardwoods. I sold all my LN's except for a couple and invested the money in more Japanese planes. IMHO you can achive a better surface with Japanese planes. So far my best plane is a 120mm made by Yamamoto-san.

For a second there it looked like you said 120mm:eek:!

Not knowing Japanese, is Yamamoto-san the same as Yamamoto?

http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=04%2E202%2E60&dept_id=12940

[Wilbur Pan]

My new favorite is a Norris A5 style infill I made. To be honest, though, I can't really claim it's objectively any better than my LN 4-1/2....

Of course you can claim it's objectively better! You made your plane, and that LN 4-1/2 was made by that hack, TL-N. ;)

(For the humor-impaired, sprinkle these liberally throughout this post: :):D;):);):D:D:);) )

[Dale Osowski]

For a second there it looked like you said 120mm:eek:!

Not knowing Japanese, is Yamamoto-san the same as Yamamoto?

http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=04%2E202%2E60&dept_id=12940

Yes, on both. The plane pictured is 120mm or 4-3/4" blade aprox.

Dale

[Casey Gooding]

While the Lie-Nielsen 4 1/2 is great, I did find one I like better:
My James Krenov Smoothing plane, made by the man himself.
It's amazing!!!!!!!

[Joel Goodman]

Dale,

The link shows a 60 MM wide plane iron (about the same as a 4 1/2 Stanley) -- is yours really 120mm wide? Wow!

[Doug Shepard]

This one
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=848884

[Brian Kent]

My new favorite is a Norris A5 style infill I made. To be honest, though, I can't really claim it's objectively any better than my LN 4-1/2 - either one will handle anything but the most inerlocked or heavily reversing grain, and as long as the LN mouth is closed up nice and tight they both perform pretty comparable, and move into 'tearout' territory at about the same time.

Mine is a bit more comfortable to my hand, though...

Raney,

Did you make this from a kit? Did you cut it out yourself? Also, did you make your own blade and Norris adjuster or did you purchase these?

Part of my reason for asking this question about smooth planes is to see if building an infill is in my future. I am trying to figure how to make all the parts. The one that I feel the least secure in machining is a Norris adjuster. I also would probably buy the blade.

[Dale Osowski]

Dale,

The link shows a 60 MM wide plane iron (about the same as a 4 1/2 Stanley) -- is yours really 120mm wide? Wow!


Yes, it is. The dai / body is about 7-1/4" wide. I use it for smoothing mantel faces.

Dale

[Brian Kent]

Best one I ever used was a Sauer & Steiner at the MWTCA meet last summer. But, I dont have the "discretionary funds" necessary for purchase. My Lie Nielsen #4 works just fine.
Mike

I just checked. I saw one as low as $2,650 Canadian. Chump change, as long as you are a really rich chump:rolleyes:!

[Brian Kent]

While the Lie-Nielsen 4 1/2 is great, I did find one I like better:
My James Krenov Smoothing plane, made by the man himself.
It's amazing!!!!!!!

Casey, I assume you are saying you like it better, not just because it is a priceless treasure, but because it works - right?

[Alfred Cole]

My favourite smoother is the HNT Gordon plane. Design is based on Chinese traditional plane. At first the cross handle seems awkward but when you work out that it is as close to the blade as is possible you realise that you have none of the normal plane problem of shifting the weight from front to back as you make each stroke.
It can be used with a pull action as well as the standard method. The blade is a massive six mill thick and with a 60 degree cutting angle will tackle any hardwood. The blade can be reversed and it becomes a brilliant scraper plane. There is no chatter at all. I use it often when cleaning up newly laid veneers.
I am so impressed with Terry Gordon's planes I now have three; a smoother a jack plane and a try plane. Each of these converts to a scraper by reversing the blade. Oh yes I do have a veritas bu jack as well as a full range of stanley/record planes.

Sorry if I am boring you with my enthusiasm (I have no connexion with HNT Gordon).

Jerry

War does not decide who is right. War onlyt decides who is left.

[Jack Camillo]

For me, the Veritas Low Angle Smooth plane. But then I've never touched a mutli-thousand dollar plane. Hope I never do! (unless someone wants to GIVE me one to try).

[Frank Drew]

I haven't handled, much less used, any of the better contemporary planes.

The best I've ever used is a Japanese plane; when correctly tuned it can plane anything, no matter how wild the grain. I think you need to work with these planes all the time, however, to get the best out of them, to know how to bring out their best. The plane bodies move, so you have to correct their soles quite frequently.

The best metal bodied smoother I have, a plane I can take off the shelf and have it perform as I want, is a Norris A5, but I think my Spiers panel plane cuts a bit better, heavier body and all. But the Spiers isn't a smoother.

[Joe Meazle]

Lee Valley Veritas bevel up smoother is the best I have used. But there are not many infills or planes from Japan floating around Arkansas so my experence is pretty limited.

[Corvin Alstot]

Casey, I assume you are saying you like it better, not just because it is a priceless treasure, but because it works - right?

The LN 4.5 works very well. I am sure there are a few even better, but not by much.
That must be an amazing Krenov plane.

[Pam Niedermayer]

My best smoothing plane is the Japanese I made with Inomoto-san's help. Second favorite is the one Inomoto-san made for the winner of the planing contest.

Here's a sample read-through shaving.

Pam

[Will Blick]

Veritas BU Smoother.....UNTIL, I got my first Bridge City Plane...

http://www.bridgecitytools.com/images/products/388/resize_ct12imagelarge.jpg

Just when I thought nothing could be nicer than the Veritas BU Smoother, the BC CT-12 proved me wrong.... really nice planes are truly addicting.... I fear buying others now... argggggg.... I was warned of this slippery slope when I first entered this forum, I thought for sure I would be immune to it, but........

Why do I like it better? It is the most solid feeling cut I have ever experienced, weight, and blade pressure set very low near the edge, removes even a hint of any chatter, a pleasure to use AND to look at...

[Steve knight]

the best plane is one you have learned and tuned to it's max. everyone will end up with a favorite and I doubt it will always be because the plane is better then any other. how do you define the best? one that handles figure the best? one that handles tropical woods the best? one thats easiest to use? one that stays sharp the longest?
there is no one plane that will do everything well.

[Will Blick]

Steve, you are so right....the ol adage, horses for courses applies here...

In my case, I elected the BC plane, cause it was the plane that is my favorite to use, and does the best job in regards to doing the job it was designed to do....

[Derek Cohen]

The simplist answer is to say the Marcou S15 ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/Marcou%20S15/MarcouTasBlkwoodshavings1b.jpg

This is one of the few planes that can, in most woods, disregard grain direction.
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/The%20Marcou%20S15%20BU%20Smoother.html

But that is a superficial answer for it only relates to performance and disregards other features, such as feel. The Marcou is a "hefty" plane and reserved for smoothing difficult grain.

The LV BU Smoother has to be one of the bargain super smoothers available. It can hold its own in any company.

It is important to note that the performance strength of these planes is only apparent when they are required to plane the most difficult grain. There are other planes that can do as well. But the point I want to make is that the gap between these and lesser planes is negligable when the wood involved is straight-grained and unchallenging. Woodwork for hobbiests should also be about fun, and there are so many other characteristics I admire in planes used under less demanding conditions. I love the feel of woodies gliding on wood. I love holding and using a low aspect plane, such as a block plane. Would you consider a spokeshave to be a plane?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Helmut Burri]

I will say that to date my HNT Gordon smoother with a T1 HSS blade is my favorite.

The low centre gravity
High Bedding angle of 60º
The extra thick blade to reduce chatter
The comfortable cross bar grip
The long edge retention of the T1 HSS blade
The beauty of wood (Australia Desert Timbers)
The easy setup and adjustment
The low entry price for a top performing plane
Not having a chip breaker to mess with
Great customer support, you have a problem with the tool you talk to the man who made the tool and your problem gets solved

I have an almost complete set of HNT Gordon planes and I have used Veritas, LN, and Stanley and non compare to the HNT smoother. I would like to try a Marcou and Krenov Smoother in time.

[Philip Duffy]

Can't beat my Millers Falls #14. It will take a thousanth of anything off anytime, any where, in any direction. All I got to do is push it or pull it. It is Scary Sharp in more ways than one! Philip

[Ron Dunn]

I don't have 100+ planes for comparison, and have never had the luxury of trying one of the dream-planes like the Marcou shown above.

That said, my absolute favourite is my ECE Primus. I love the horned handle, I can push or pull the plane depending on how I'm working, its adjustment is fine and accurate, and it just works.

I've got two other ECE planes - the jointer and the block - and they're rubbish by comparison.

[Dale Osowski]

My best smoothing plane is the Japanese I made with Inomoto-san's help. Second favorite is the one Inomoto-san made for the winner of the planing contest.

Here's a sample read-through shaving.

Pam


That's an impressive shaving.

Dale

[Raney Nelson]

Raney,

Did you make this from a kit? Did you cut it out yourself? Also, did you make your own blade and Norris adjuster or did you purchase these?

Part of my reason for asking this question about smooth planes is to see if building an infill is in my future. I am trying to figure how to make all the parts. The one that I feel the least secure in machining is a Norris adjuster. I also would probably buy the blade.

Brian,

I bought both the blade and the adjuster - The rest of the plane was done from scratch. The blade is a 3/16" Hock, and the adjuster is a Ray Iles from TFWW. There are some plans for adjusters, and I think the bottom line is that with a metal lathe it would be rather easy. Without one, it gets trickier. Another woodworker has found an adjuster plan that looks possible to do with no metalworking equipment, but he hasn't made any yet.

edit to add: I think Steve Knight has it right here - once you get to a reasonable level of capability, the best plane is the one you've tuned up, gotten used to, and often has "that certain something" that gives you a connection to it. I've spent a lot of time with my LN and I'd be hard pressed to find anythign that I think works 'better' in a purely rational sense. The fact that I made mine, made it to fit my hand and work habits, and it works 'as well' puts it over the top for me. I get that pleasant sense of accomplishment everytime I use it, and I think that sort of thing also makes me strive a bit more to do work worthy of the feeling, if you understand my meaning. As a result, I probably do better marginally work with that plane than the LN on the whole.I find the biggest barriers to quality of work for me is much more in the realm of 'focus' and reverence for the work than it is in my core skills these days.

So I suppose the solution is to find, make, or adopt a plane you truly enjoy for whatever reason, and then form a relationship with it.

This is getting a little on the touchy-feely side for my tastes, but I do think it's true.

[Pam Niedermayer]

That's an impressive shaving.

Dale

Thanks, Dale, impressed me, too, didn't think I had it in me. :) Of course I didn't, but the plane did.

Pam

[Brian Kent]

I will say that to date my HNT Gordon smoother with a T1 HSS blade is my favorite.

The low centre gravity
High Bedding angle of 60º
The extra thick blade to reduce chatter
The comfortable cross bar grip
The long edge retention of the T1 HSS blade
The beauty of wood (Australia Desert Timbers)
The easy setup and adjustment
The low entry price for a top performing plane
Not having a chip breaker to mess with
Great customer support, you have a problem with the tool you talk to the man who made the tool and your problem gets solved

I have an almost complete set of HNT Gordon planes and I have used Veritas, LN, and Stanley and non compare to the HNT smoother. I would like to try a Marcou and Krenov Smoother in time.

Helmut, Welcome! Good review of the HNT Gordon. You probably have these, but several of the HNT Gordons are on sale big time right now - Jack, Try and 1-1/4" shoulder at craftsmanstudio.com. They are selling their ironwood and ebony and going to gidgee only.

[Jerome Hanby]

Brian,

I bought both the blade and the adjuster - The rest of the plane was done from scratch. The blade is a 3/16" Hock, and the adjuster is a Ray Iles from TFWW. There are some plans for adjusters, and I think the bottom line is that with a metal lathe it would be rather easy. Without one, it gets trickier. Another woodworker has found an adjuster plan that looks possible to do with no metalworking equipment, but he hasn't made any yet.

In the Shopnotes dovetail shoulder plane project, the author used a brass lamp shade extender to make the adjuster. Too bad that simple style of extender seems to have become extinct:eek:

[Raney Nelson]

In the Shopnotes dovetail shoulder plane project, the author used a brass lamp shade extender to make the adjuster. Too bad that simple style of extender seems to have become extinct:eek:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that is a depth-only adjust, no?

Depth-only adjusters are relatively straightforward to make, and in all honesty is probably what I would do in the future if I were including an adjust. I find lateral adjustment to be universally too coarse and a waste of time. Hammer taps work much better. (I am only slightly more inclined toward depth adjustment - lol).

The Norris adjuster, which includes depth and lateral adjusments, is a bit tough to fabricate. The core problem is attaching the carrier 'banjo' to the depth screw in such a way as to allow it to rotate freely as the depth projection is adjusted. If you can center a screw in the end of the adjusting rod, it can be used to fix the banjo to the rod while allowing this, which is one of the two systems used, but you need to be able to drill and tap a relatively precise hole in the end of a small diameter rod. Most of the more affordable adjusters (Incl. the $80 Ray Iles) use this method.

The other solution involves using a rod with double threads on it, one for the depth adjsut against the atttachment plate, and the second to allow the banjo to rotate. This is, i think, generally considered the superior mechanism. This is also, in essence, the adjsuter LV uses, at least on its BU and shoulder planes.

Personally, though I used it on the smoother to 'try it out', I think the adjusters are far more trouble than they're worth. Hammers have a small learning curve, but in the end they're more accurate and just as easy to use... plus, you don't have to loosen the lever cap to make adjustments.

[Raney Nelson]

Thanks, Dale, impressed me, too, didn't think I had it in me. :) Of course I didn't, but the plane did.

Pam

Yes, but the plane was 'of you' so apparently you did have it in you :)

What sort of wood is that shaving? Maple? I agree it is most impressive!

[Stephen Shepherd]

I have 5 wooden smoothing planes that I use on a regular basis. One small one has a single iron the rest have cap irons. English, Scottish and American in origin, the Scotch plane is set for the finest cut (it also has the finest mouth), the Ohio Tool Co. (which I resoled, it was converted to a compass plane) for taking off a fair amount of wood. The small one with a single iron I use to get things down flat fast.

Which is my favorite, the sharpest one.

I prefer wooden planes as I use them all day and they are much lighter in weight that modern metal planes. Also if I drop the plane (heaven forbid) on my work the wooden plane causes much less damage to the work. I also work in a wood heated shop in the winter time and metal planes are just not pleasent to touch when its cold.

Wooden planes also have a better center of gravity than metal planes.

Stephen

[Brian Kent]

I found the Norris adjusters in Tools for Working Wood after I asked the question, but I'm fine with banging a hammer on my plane too. OK, gently banging the right kind of mallet.

[Pam Niedermayer]

...What sort of wood is that shaving? Maple? I agree it is most impressive!

Raney, it was from a 6' long piece of Port Orford Cedar. The shaving was full length, full width, still have it rolled up in a film canister.

Pam

[Johnny Kleso]

I found the Norris adjusters in Tools for Working Wood after I asked the question, but I'm fine with banging a hammer on my plane too. OK, gently banging the right kind of mallet.

Joel does NOT sell Norris Adjusters
They are Bristol (so called) Adjusters

The Norris has a double screw and the Bristol a single..

[Mark Singer]

The lighter woodies....coffin smoothers or the heavier Norris and Marcou smoothers are really the best in my opinion . They both really connect you to the work and become an extension of your body. An ECE 711 ia another if properly tuned and my Steve Knight Paduck coffin smoother is really a treat!

[Wilbur Pan]

the best plane is one you have learned and tuned to it's max.

This is true for me. My favorite smoothing plane right now is this one.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3108/2552800206_4d3470cf24_o.jpg

This Japanese plane also happens to be the one I've worked on most in terms of tuning. The shavings are from a scrap piece of cherry. Although this plane supposedly isn't ideal for hardwoods, since the bed angle is 40°, and everyone knows that Japanese tools only work on softwoods :rolleyes:, and I use it without the chipbreaker most of the time, I can still get see through shavings, although this picture is not as impressive as Pam's, for sure.

Hopefully this can be adequately illustrated in this picture, but what I think is cool about this shaving is that if you look at the splits in the top shaving, and look at the grain of the cherry scrap that the shaving is sitting on, you'll see that the splits actually line up with the grain of the board.

[Brian Kent]

Joel does NOT sell Norris Adjusters
They are Bristol (so called) Adjusters

The Norris has a double screw and the Bristol a single..

I'll just let you and Joel work out the terminology, since I have no idea:confused:.

[Johnny Kleso]

I have tried two of Ron Brese's planes and they cut as well as any I have ever used..

Also I think on read threw chips you need the right wood with a dense grain and light color to make read threw chips..

[Derek Cohen]

I think on read threw chips you need the right wood with a dense grain and light color to make read threw chips..

Hi Johnny

I can't compete with Pam's shaving, but here is a picture taken a couple of years ago of hard, interlinked Jarrah. Plane was the LV BUS.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/FineshavingsWC.jpg

Actually, I agree - straight grained softwood is a lot easier to plane for this effect.

I did once manage a 10 foot gossamer shaving in this pine. Plane was a Mujingfang.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/Mujingfangshavings.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Kent]

Derek, you made a Stanley infill from a Stanley 3 body and one from a Stanley 4 body, if I remember your posts correctly. How do those do for you in use?

Your ideas really inspire me. I love the simplicity of this design:

http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/inTheShop/mkTools/galootInfill/index.asp

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Brian

Thanks for the kind words.

The #3 infill smoother is a really terrific user. It is capable of very fine shavings in the most difficult grain. It is small - 7 1/2" long and 1 3/4" wide blade (nearly 3/16" thick).

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/Stanley3infill1.jpg

This is a BU design with a 25 degree bed, which enables a "reasonable" 35 degree bevel to reach a 60 degree angle of attack (which makes it easier to hone freehand on a hollow grind).

Soon I shall be constructing one of Ron Brese's very fine kits. This will create a similar size/type of small smoother.

The one I have is a custom 60 degree bed, in steel. I am planning an ebony infill.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/Brese/Brese1.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Kent]

Soon I shall be constructing one of Ron Brese's very fine kits. This will create a similar size/type of small smoother.

The one I have is a custom 60 degree bed, in steel. I am planning an ebony infill.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/Brese/Brese1.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek


But will you be able to lift it?

I assume those side holes are for either screws or using a riveted piece of brass. If you rivet brass in a very hard wood like ebony, do you need to insert a metal tube in the ebony and then insert the rod and peen it in place? Or do you just drill, insert rod and peen without the reinforcement of a surrounding tube?
Brian

[Doug Shepard]

...
Soon I shall be constructing one of Ron Brese's very fine kits. This will create a similar size/type of small smoother.

The one I have is a custom 60 degree bed, in steel. I am planning an ebony infill.
...


You're going to love it. I know there are other ones out there, but this is the only plane I've ever used that planed just as well against the grain as with. Seriously thinking of trying to do one of his kits when he gets the full size smoother kits available.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Brian

The infills will be held in with deep screws, the heads of which are ground flush with the sides. Same as with the #3.

This is a heavy little bugger!

Hopefully Ron will be along to say a little about it.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Doug Shepard]

Jameel Abraham did an outstanding job with a modification to that Brese plane kit and great documentation of the process here.
http://oudluthier.blogspot.com/

[Brian Kent]

Now what to do about all this great information?

Go buy all these?
Sorry, no.

Honed my blades on my small smoother / large block Krenov-style planes.

Increased the angle on my LV BU Jack, and could plane both directions on white oak without tearout. The BU Smoother is hopefully in my future.

Started building an infill using parts on hand. I got to the test fit with parts oversized. Had some real fun today. It is cocobolo in a old No.4 body.

I'm just holding the place with a standard thin blade until I decide what to buy for it. Ideas for blades and infill wisdom is greatly appreciated!

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Brian

Now I understand why you were looking at the Stanley infills I built - that #4 of yours is going to be very striking, much nicer than the #4 I built (several years ago).

Here is my #4: 55 degree bed, LN blade, Matherson cap iron (it was pre-aftermarket cap iron days - at least I was on the right track then), miniscule mouth. Brass lever cap. Stylistically "different" (!).

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Tools%20that%20I%20have%20made/Stanleyinfill4-2.jpg

I prefer yours. Lets see it once done.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[ken seale]

Hi Brian,

That is one outrageous looking plane! The body looks familiar though. ;)

If you haven't already, you ought to post about it in the hand tool section at the woodnet forums.

[Ron Brese]

Brian,

In reference to your question concerning pinning the infills, I suggest two ways in the instructions to pin the infills. One is to drill and insert hardwood dowel stock thru the infills at the required positions, gluing only on one end and then drilling and inserting a slotted wood screw into the end of the dowel. This way the dowel holds the width of the plane even if the infill contracts. The second way is to glue the infill to the sole and then drill and insert the same type screws directly into the infill. In both methods the head of the pin is peined into the countersink and filed down and lapped flush to the body.

In wider planes I would highly suggest making a provision for holding the width of the body, however in smaller planes that use a 1.5" wide or smaller iron it may be over kill. If the infill wood is well seasoned it just will not move very much across that much width. Keep in mind that I designed the kit to be completed with minimal metal working skills so I've tried to keep the method of permanently installing the infills as straight forward as possible and still result in a quite outstanding plane.

I have spent a considerable amount of time in the product development of the 650-55 plane (in Derek's case a 650-60 plane) whether in kit form or completed form, especially in respect to the weight and balance. Derek's plane in all steel will actually be a bit lighter than the all brass or brass side and steel sole version. Those that have completed kits or have purchased completed planes have all attested to the fact that the mass in this plane is very well balanced and it's weight only serves as an advantage in leverage thru the cut. In fact most have stated that they have to regularly remind themselves that a lot of downward pressure on the part of the user is not required. This makes this plane very pleasurable to use and actually does not require as much effort on the part of the user as compared to a traditional bench plane or woodie. This latest version of this plane is actually a good bit lighter than prior versions which goes to prove that mass for mass sake is not always a good thing, however adequate mass with good balance has proven to be a very appealing feature.

Ron Brese

[Steve Schoene]

My favorite for final smoothing of knarly stuff is my York pitch Clark & Williams smoother.

[Johnny Kleso]

Here is one of my favorites
http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/603.jpg
Its a 603 Bedrock I just re-finished top to bottom.. Plus some custom items a LN .125 blade, a brand new Stanley Cap Iron and a new set of Macassar Ebony handles by Greg Droz

[Bill Houghton]

Found at a garage sale. Best plane iron I've found in rust hunting - stays sharp for a long, long time, brings up nice curly thin shavings.

I should note that my work focuses on "light" woods - oak is about my limit of exotica, I prefer walnut, and (alas) I spend a lot of time on pine and fir.

[Joel Goodman]

I have an ECE smoother but generally my best results are with a LN 62 Low Angle Jack with 36 degree iron. Something about the simplicity of the BU with a little weight works great. This makes me think that the LV BUS or the LN 164 may be in my future!

[Brian Kent]

Here is one of my favorites
http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/603.jpg
Its a 603 Bedrock I just re-finished top to bottom.. Plus some custom items a LN .125 blade, a brand new Stanley Cap Iron and a new set of Macassar Ebony handles by Greg Droz

Looks like it's made of solid bedrock.:rolleyes:

[Gene DiNardo]

Here's a couple of St James Bay Kits from rough castings. Bronze bodies.
The Smoother is stuffed with Walnut and the Panel Plane is Stuffed with Cocobolo.
They are both bedded at about 56 degrees.
They were not that hard to build, and at about $500 for the pair, they were a real bargain.

[Brian Kent]

Those are beautiful. I am really curious how you shaped the wood - front and back. How did you shape the layered curves?

I just sent for one of their catalogues to see what they offer.

[Derek Cohen]

Gene

Beautiful work!

I am more curious about the rough castings. I gather that these kits require equipment to machine out the surfaces. What did you do/use?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Gene DiNardo]

Thanks guys,
Brian, The infill was shaped with bandsaw,router table for the top of the fronts and rasps and a dremel with a sanding drum. The tote is three pieces with the center one 1 1/8th". The hand hole(quite roomy) was roughed out on a scroll saw and shaped with rasps.
The panel plane has an interesting solution to accomodate the adjuster, I'll see if I have a close up if anyone is interested.

Derek, The castings (one piece by the way, no dovetail peening required) are actually slightly machined.
The bed is milled to your spec. and there is a slight gouge for the mouth(though not all the way through the casting).
The casting requires quite a bit of work with a drill press,narrow belt sander,dremel,files, and elbow grease however, I have no previous experience in metal work, so it was kind of on the job training. The lever cap is drilled but the casting is quite rough.
I have made several wooden planes so I had an idea of what I was working towards.
I was on the closing end of the Shepard tragedy so I thought I'd give the St. James route a try.
It's not something I'd want to do for a living, but I'd encourage anyone who wants a custom, high end infill at an extremely affordable price and is even slightly handy to give them a try.
I'be happy to offer any tips based on my experience to anyone who takes the plunge.
Gene DiNardo

[Brian Kent]

I was working on my #4 Infill experiment when I peened off a chip of the Stanley body - near the top screw.

Can I fix it?

1) Can I use JB weld and accept the fact that it's an experiment and will still work even if there is a "scar"?

2) Can I get the epoxied wood out of the metal body and find another Stanley #4 body?

3) I don't do any welding.

Help!:o

[Ray Gardiner]

Ouch.. I'm sorry Brian, it's terminal.... cast

As you said it's experimental. Just continue on and finish the experiment
you will learn other things and if it works "really well" you will be inspired
to build the next one.

The only mistake is the one you don't learn from.

Could be an opportunity to try out some repair techniques, but all the ones
I can think of involve welding and that implies removing the wooden bits.

[Joel Goodman]

On Brass City's web site there is:

Stanley No. 4…body only “S” casting type 7. Planes made by Stanley 1893-1899. japanning at 95%, body solid and without fault mouth tight and no chips, cracks etc. . Includes frog screws…$15

Don't know if that helps.

Does epoxy (I assume that's what you used) soften with heat?

Good luck!

[Brian Kent]

On Brass City's web site there is:

Stanley No. 4…body only “S” casting type 7. Planes made by Stanley 1893-1899. japanning at 95%, body solid and without fault mouth tight and no chips, cracks etc. . Includes frog screws…$15

Don't know if that helps.

Does epoxy (I assume that's what you used) soften with heat?

Good luck!

The site you mentioned (at least the old tools page) is temporarily down. Yes, I have heard that heat melts or releases epoxy. I used a lot of epoxy on this one, so I do not know how much heat needs to be applied to release 14 square inches of wood-to-iron.

I am open to getting a new #4 body if I can release the epoxy without destroying the wood (or burning it?). otherwise, I might proceed with the JB weld.

[Joel Goodman]

http://www.brasscityrecords.com/toolworks/new%20tools.html

If you scroll down this page you will see the #4 body listed for $15.

[Don C Peterson]

On the other hand, that break is purely cosmetic and won't affect the plane's function in the least. I'd leave it, use it, learn from my mistake...

[Raney Nelson]

I am open to getting a new #4 body if I can release the epoxy without destroying the wood (or burning it?). otherwise, I might proceed with the JB weld.

If I recall correctly, it's about 140 degrees... but what I can tell you from direct experience is that you'll have no problem getting it out without damaging the wood. A heat gun or any torch (I probably wouldn't let the actual flame hit the casting, but near) should take care of this. In a pinch, you can sometimes get a hairdryer to do the trick, but this is a largish area you need to heat all at once so i somewhat doubt it would work here.

Also, regarding Brass City - definitely call rather than email and talk to Walt. Sometimes he also has spare parts, and he's a very friendly, knowledgeable, and honorable man. I have no higher recommendation for used tool vendors than Walt.

edit to add: Though to be honest, I agree with Mr. Peterson on this one: it shouldn't have any real effect on performance, and I'd probably leave it the way it is and use it. It should make a very capable user!

[Brian Kent]

Well, I figured it can't hurt, so I just JB Welded it. Very awkward angle for a clamp so I taped it. Really isn't tight.

Maybe I can put it in a vise at some angle that allows it to hold a clamp.

[steve swantee]

I have not been fortunate enough to use any of the L-N planes, or any of the infills many of you have mentioned in your posts, so I almost hate to add this one to the list. But, since this is about "the best smoothing plane you have used", for me it would have to be my Stanley No.4 Type 7. It has been tuned and has a .125 iron and improved chipbreaker from Lie-Nielsen, and is definitely my best and favorite smoother since the blade upgrade. Definitely some cool planes in this thread though.

Steve

[Brian Kent]

I have not been fortunate enough to use any of the L-N planes, or any of the infills many of you have mentioned in your posts, so I almost hate to add this one to the list. But, since this is about "the best smoothing plane you have used", for me it would have to be my Stanley No.4 Type 7. It has been tuned and has a .125 iron and improved chipbreaker from Lie-Nielsen, and is definitely my best and favorite smoother since the blade upgrade. Definitely some cool planes in this thread though.

Steve

What you are saying is exactly the info I am looking for. It is fascinating to hear about the exotic infills, but it is also great to hear how well how well an old stanley (with a very cool upgrade!) No. 4 works.

Was there any problem putting the .125 iron in a Stanley? Did you need a new yoke screw or enlarge the mouth to make the thicker blade fit?

Brian

[steve swantee]

Thanks for the reply Brian, have a look at my thread "Taking the Plunge" for answers to your questions. As I said it was a type 7, which has no rib under the frog, so the frog can be set back further than on a later plane, but no, no problems.

Steve

[Brian Kent]

Here is a summary of your responses as of June 14 (alphabetical order)

Bridge City CT-12
Coffin
Coffin
Clark and Williams York Pitch
ECE 711
ECE Primus
HNT Gordon
HNT Gordon - T1 HSS blade
James Krenov - James Krenov
Japanese Plane
Japanese Plane
Japanese Plane - Shop=made with help of Inomoto-san
Japanese Plane - Yamamoto 120mm
Lee Valley Bevel Up Smoother
Lee Valley Bevel Up Smoother
Lee Valley Veritas Bevel Up
Lee Valley Veritas Low Angle Smooth
Lie-Nielsen #4
Lie-Nielsen 4-1/2
Lie-Nielsen 64 Low Angle Jack - 36° iron
Light Woodie
Marcou Infill
Marcou S15
Mathieson Infill
Millers Falls #14
Mujingfang
Norris A5 Infill
Norris A5 style Infill - Shop-made
Norris Infill
Ron Brese
Ron Brese Kit
Sauer and Steiner Infill
Shepherd Infill kit - Shop-made
St James Bay Infill Kit
Stanley Bedrock 603 - refinished
Stanley #4 type 7 with Lie-Nielsen .125 blade
Stanley with Hock Blade
Stanley#3 Infill Smoother
Steve Knight Padouk Coffin
Steve Knight-made 50-degree infill
Wards Master #4

…which proves Steve Knight's wisdom:
"…the best plane is one you have learned and tuned to it's max."

[John Guarino]

I have to add a 50-degree Steve Knight-made infill. ;)


Hard to believe it works so well on "confusing maple" (my description of the stuff). Best I have ever used.

[Brian Kent]

I have to add a 50-degree Steve Knight-made infill. ;)


Hard to believe it works so well on "confusing maple" (my description of the stuff). Best I have ever used.

John, I just added it to the list above. Thanks for the post.

[Steve Pirrelli]

I got a Krenov made smoother. It's become my favorite. I bought it cause he made it, not really thinking it would be a favorite user. Got use to it quick, feels good with two handed or with one. Been reaching for it instead of my LV block plane for many tasks. Never tried a infill smoother though or anything too exotic for comparison.

[Brian Kent]

We now have a list of 41 "Best Smooth Planes You Have Ever Used" with about 36 planes or variations of planes included!

Bridge City CT-12
Coffin
Coffin
Clark and Williams York Pitch
ECE 711
ECE Primus
HNT Gordon
HNT Gordon - T1 HSS blade
James Krenov - James Krenov
Japanese Plane
Japanese Plane
Japanese Plane - Shop=made with help of Inomoto-san
Japanese Plane - Yamamoto 120mm
Krenov-made smoother
Lee Valley Bevel Up Smoother
Lee Valley Bevel Up Smoother
Lee Valley Veritas Bevel Up Smoother
Lee Valley Veritas Low Angle Smooth
Lie-Nielsen #4
Lie-Nielsen 4-1/2
Lie-Nielsen 64 Low Angle Jack - 36° iron
Light Woodie
Marcou Infill
Marcou S15
Mathieson Infill
Millers Falls #14
Mujingfang
Norris A5 Infill
Norris A5 style Infill - Shop-made
Norris Infill
Ron Brese
Ron Brese Kit
Sauer and Steiner Infill
Shepherd Infill kit - Shop-made
St James Bay Infill Kit
Stanley Bedrock 603 - refinished
Stanley #4 type 7 with Lie-Nielsen .125 blade
Stanley with Hock Blade
Stanley#3 Infill Smoother
Steve Knight Padouk Coffin
Wards Master #4

"The best plane is one you have learned and tuned to it's max."
Steve Knight