The making of a woodshop with pictures [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Dave Lessley

06-03-2008, 11:24 AM

The bad news I have a 1500 square foot basement that looks just about the same.

Demolition did not start yesterday. Today it is pouring down rain. Not sure if they will get up on a metal roof to start taking things apart in this rain or not.

John,
I rented a POD to store the machinery in during construction. I will take a picture looking in so you can see what was hiding in the shop.

Tim,

Jimmy no... but can't tell you how many mouse houses there were and the occasional dried up salamander.

Dewey,
I should have had a garage sale as that is where much of the "stuff" came from. The need to accomplish this task in the shortest time possible did not allow me to process the sheer volume of stuff so I gave away or donated most of it and of course a couple of dump runs. It was a little uncomfortable in the beginning and then I kind of caught the vision and it got easier. I still have stuff stashed that needs to be gone through.

Ben,
Oddly enough there were not many items I had forgotten about as I have sifted through this stuff trying to organize and fit more in. The part about not being able to find stuff and then buying more was a bigger deal than I realized. As part of the process I was making piles of like items. Hardware, electrical, plumbing to name a few. It was amazing how many boxes of deck screws I found.

The rule was anything that was saved had to be related to woodworking with in one generation. Things like welders and my beadblaster made the list as they could be used to etch glass, burnish wood or some other creative thing or weld metal stands etc.

Everything meeting the criteria that could be boxed up was inventoried and the boxes numbered. I only inventoried the boxes that related to the woodshop. At last count there were 43 boxes.

Ben Cadotte

06-03-2008, 5:02 PM

You have any pics of the trusses? I have never seen any done that way?? I used to sell pole barns and such when I worked at the lumber yard 20 years ago. All of ours were designed with the press plates and sat on top of the rim joists.

Dave Lessley

06-04-2008, 4:07 PM

Today they actually started de-construction. My wife is taking a few pictures through out the day of that process for me. Hopefully we will have pictures tomorrow.

Until then a few filler pictures.

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Shot of the existing building from the south side and the East end which is the front of the shop.

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Picture of the home made trusses. If you look close on the left end you will see where it has split at the bolt. These were fabricated by the guy who put up the building.

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Couple of shots of the POD housing the woodworking machinery during construction.

Jason Beam

06-04-2008, 8:42 PM

Hey Dave,

Mind if I ask what size and how much that Pod is you got?

Ted Jay

06-04-2008, 11:48 PM

How many things did you find that you forgot you owned. I hate it when I go out and buy something. Then later on clean an area or open a box and find I had a whole boat load of it, and now have even more. :rolleyes:

I have bought things I know I have, but I can't find!!:rolleyes:

Ted Jay

06-04-2008, 11:53 PM

Hey Dave,

Mind if I ask what size and how much that Pod is you got?

Jason, go to PODS online site and you can call to get a quote. We got one when we moved into our new house.

Dave Lessley

06-05-2008, 12:29 PM

The size is 8x8x16

It's $153.00 per month. There were drop off fees Which brought it to $250 or 60 I don't remember exactly. And I think it is $69.00 to pick it up. They don't pro rate so you need to call in for pickup before your next month starts or you pay for the whole month.

Dave Lessley

06-05-2008, 3:39 PM

These are from the end of Day 3

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Dave Lessley

06-09-2008, 12:36 PM

I took Friday off to tap into the water line and run pipe around the ditch to where the bathroom will be. Saturday Day 6 I ran the dounspout drain and covered up the ditch. I didn't get pictures of the ditch covered up but just imagine mud everywhere as it was raining for two days solid and for serveral day before I started. When they stacked up the debri it is so close to the slab with the ditch I did not have enough room to get in with the tractor and push the dirt back into the ditch. Fortunately my neighbor has been bringing in dirt for around his place and has a couple of nice piles stored on a corner of my property. He said take all I needed so I drove over the slab and dumped it in that way. It was that or move all the debri. It worked out fine but had two twelve hour days working until dark.

They are starting the layout for the walls today. Hopefully we'll see something standing up when I get home today.

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John Keeton

06-09-2008, 3:33 PM

You gotta love it when the mess is gone and the walls start up!! Lookin' good! Do you have the underground electrical service in already? Makes me excited just watching.

You must be following the standard construction plan - every structure I ever built, it rained on the footers for a week before I could come up with the foundation!! I just thought that was the way it was for everybody!

Dave Lessley

06-09-2008, 4:24 PM

John,

There is existing underground electrical service to the shop. The conduit that feeds the panel is laying over in the ditch. Should be viewable in the earlier photos. When I built my house 5 years ago I had them run a separate circuit to the shop and put in a 200 amp panel. Previously it had been connected with overhead wires from a post next to a mobil home feeding a 60 amp subpanel in the shop.

Dave Lessley

06-10-2008, 12:25 PM

In the first picture the back wall is the North wall. There will be four small windows on the North and South walls and two in the West wall. I wanted to have larger windows for more natural light and the view of the forest, but with the shop being on the smaller side I opted for more wall space. Here in the Northwest we lean towards gray skies and I figured I would be using artificial light much of the time anyway.

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John Keeton

06-10-2008, 8:37 PM

Pretty good progress for working in a mudhole!! Wet sure slows things down, but it is coming along nicely.

Dave Lessley

06-11-2008, 11:39 AM

Made pretty good progress considering the forecast was for slight chance of rain showers and it rained torrents most of the day. The weather is supposed to be improving through Sunday dry with temps in the low 70's. Wednesday they will finish the framing and and get the sheeting on. Hopefully the siding as well. I'm trying to figure out the plumbing (vent and drain) as they will start on the 6' x 6' bump out for the bathroom. We need to pour a slab probably as soon as they are done with the trusses and the roofing.

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Dave Lessley

06-11-2008, 11:44 AM

John thanks for the encouraging words. We had actually hoped to be at this point last week. The only delay has been the weather. The builder and his crew have been great.

Travis Porter

06-11-2008, 11:50 AM

Are you having any full sized windows installed?

Dave Lessley

06-11-2008, 1:32 PM

Travis

I considered it at great length and for a few reasons decided against it. Of course windows can always be added should I regret my decision. It's a small shop and I feel I will need 100% of the wall space (see pictures in first post) I'm trying to re-train myself but see the need for storage, hanging templates on the wall, lumber rack etc. We do get bouts of wind and there was limited concern of branches trashing a lower larger window at least on the north side. I have lived in this area my entire life and we have gray skies probably two thirds of the year. I will be using artificial light anyway. I was not able to afford it this round but in the future I would like to add 12 x 30 addition to the south of the building for a hand tool workbench and finishing room at which point I will put large windows all across the south side. That goal has much to do with current construction high windows etc.

John Keeton

06-11-2008, 7:08 PM

Windows are nice, BUT, when I am in the shop (hobby for me) I am "in the zone" and really do not look out to enjoy the views. Don't take me wrong - I have nice views from my shop, and certainly enjoy the outdoors. But, when I am woodworking, I am woodworking. When I am hunting or enjoying the outdoors, then that is what I am doing. Maybe I am just too focused, but I find it hard to mix those things. My windows serve for ventilation, and to let me have some sense of who is coming up my drive - which shouldn't be anyone most of the time. Maybe I'm just gettin' old??!!

Dave Lessley

06-12-2008, 2:23 PM

We made it to the sheathing. Expecting trusses I believe at 2:00 PM today (Thursday). Hopefully it will have a Roof by end of Friday my guess is not until Monday. Went shopping yesterday for plumbing parts for the toilet drain and vent.

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Jim Kirkpatrick

06-12-2008, 3:55 PM

Putting the windows up high is a wise decision. I made the mistake of putting them at eye level and all they are are wall space hogs. Plus I feel like I'm in a fish bowl at night. My next shop I build (ya right!) they will be up high like yours. I notice the new post offices that are springing up all over have them up high too. Smart. Keep the pictures coming!

Dave Lessley

06-13-2008, 3:18 PM

Well shortly after setting about half the trusses the worker guys packed up and went home. Might add they have not shown up yet today.

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Looking at the NE corner . . . . The North Wall

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The SE Corner

Dave Lessley

06-17-2008, 12:05 PM

Got a good full day in Monday. They finished setting the trusses and sheeted most of the roof. Tuesday they hope to have the roof on. In the first picture you can see where the windows stop on the left side. This is where the bump out for the bathroom will be. I will be keeping it small 5' x 5' interior space. Just enough room for a stool and a Laundry tub sink.

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Again hopefully Wednesday the concrete guy will be there to do the pad for the bathroom and set the drain and vent for the toilet and sink.

As soon as the roof goes on and we get siding I'm having an electrical firm put the service panel back in. They are some mighty stiff wires. I will do the rest of the the wiring once the service panel is back in.

Now is the time for questions and suggestions. It's easy to discuss and implement before it's done.

Dave Lessley

06-18-2008, 11:54 AM

Well the best laid plans of builders. The felt did get put on but no metal roof yet. We are not sure if the concrete guy is coming today or not. The roofer did not want to work yesterday. We don't know about today. Only got one picture today. How ever there was not much change to the front other than some barge boards. We'll catch up on that tomorrow. Oh and we don't know if the electrician is going to show up today to reconnect the service panel or not. So we have a whole lot of we don't knows right now.

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Hopefully by the end of the week some of this will have come together.

Barry Reade

06-18-2008, 11:58 AM

Isn't that typical of most subcontractors? It looks nice and should be yours to finish in the next week or so, hopefully.

John Keeton

06-19-2008, 6:33 AM

Seems that a lot of trades people only work to get enough beer money so they can fish/hunt/whatever into the weekend. They may have the right plan! The guy who has done electrical work for me for over 20 years has never worked past noon, and rarely on Friday. No employees, lives alone (most of the time!), always has a car or motorcycle project he is working on, and NO stress level. Hey, are you using my electrician??

It will happen in due course! Lookin' good!

Mike Wilkins

06-19-2008, 9:29 AM

Looking good!!!
Delays seem to be the order of the day when it comes to some contractors.
I have a neighbor waiting for a long time to finish a simple structure. All he seems to get is one excuse after another.
As for suggestions: are those attic trusses? If so, great. If not, not a problem. Just lay some inexpensive ply on the floor and use this for storage. Put in a pull-down attic stair and instant storage space appears. Lots of nice space in there, but it won't take long to feel cramped when the toys arrive.

Ben Cadotte

06-19-2008, 9:41 AM

I have seen this alot with contractors (used to work as carpenter). Uncle owns an iron working company. Basically since your job is smaller in nature. I would bet they are doing yours as they have time. They will work their "normal" jobs until they are at a stop. Then come work on yours. Trades are like that. Plumbers and electricians wait on the carpenters. Then they get in and the carpenters have to wait on them. So the best thing to do is just go to another job, so nobody is standing around. There are lazy people out that that do just work for beer money. But I think in most cases, especially on a small job. You are just the fill in work to help keep them busy. So unfortunately the bigger, longer, higher paying job gets the "A" schedule, and you get the "B" or even "C" schedule.

Dave Lessley

06-19-2008, 11:42 AM

Wednesday was a good day. The concrete guy showed up to assess and excavate the pad for the bathroom. He says he will pour today. I dumped a bunch of gravel in the hole for him last night. While I was there at lunch time to talk with the concrete/plumber guy the electrician showed up to give us a bid to re hook up the service panel. He thinks he should be able to get to it Friday. He will hook up one outlet and a light bulb at which point I can have the power company turn the power back on. No more long extension cords to the house. All the windows are in and they have siding going up on the East side or Front of the shop. For the first time we have a picture of the elusive North and West sides of the building.

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The excavator is a Kubota KX41. . . . . Location of the bathroom
and a whole lotta fun

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Siding going up East end . . . . . . . . . North side and West end

Dave Lessley

06-19-2008, 11:57 AM

Mike,

"They" referred to it as a storage truss. It does not have pony walls. There is a triangular space 10' across the base and about 5.5' from the base to the peak. I'll take a picture. The plan is to put a pull down stair and to keep it simple I'll deck 8' of the 10' to keep it with full sheets of ply. the 1' difference to the corners of the triangle on each side will be mostly not useable anyway. Where to fit the stairs in between lights and who knows where dust collection is the issue.

Rich Konopka

06-19-2008, 5:52 PM

wow, I am jealous. Nice job !!

Dave Lessley

06-20-2008, 12:06 PM

With much patience we finished up the concrete for the bathroom at 11:00 pm. While the concrete is drying more siding will go up and hurricane straps on the framing. We are waiting for the inspection on the electrical panel after which I can call the power company and heat up the panel. The builder may show up Saturday to frame the bathroom. We are still waiting for the roofer to show up.

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I think the plan is to not start the siding on this side until the bathroom is framed in so they can start on the left side and work across. Besides a small peek at the pad and unused bags of concrete the big change in this view is most of the pile of the wall sections closest to the camera have been processed from the tear down. For tearing them apart I gave the sheet metal to the neighbors for a critter barn they are building.

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I knew when I went in the house last night that the cat was going to check out the concrete and.... I was right.

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Finished up the siding on this end

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This one should be buttoned up by the end of today

Dave Lessley

06-23-2008, 11:25 AM

Nothing has happened since we poured the concrete Thursday night. The builder was supposed to come Saturday to frame the bathroom but decided the concrete needed more time to dry.

The inspector came to check the service panel and there are a couple of things we need to fix. We need an outdoor light by the man door and the electrician did not bond (ground) the panel box itself. I also need to pound down one of my ground rods. It's sticking up to high.

My builder informed me today he is starting another job this week and would be splitting his time. I politely reminded him my completion date and his remaining funds were still very much linked together.

I picked up an on demand hot water heater for the bathroom Saturday. As much as I was going to be using hot water out there, mostly just to wash my hands I couldn't see any sense in keeping a hot water tank going. Not even one of the two or three gallon jobs. I purchased one that heats the water as you use draw water through it. It's made by Bosch so I'm hoping it will do what it says. I also sat down and drew up the electrical plan for the outlets and lighting.

Jerry Olexa

06-24-2008, 1:17 PM

Looking good!! Nice project...outside contractors never work on your timing/schedule

Dave Lessley

06-24-2008, 1:50 PM

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A good start on framing the bathroom.

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A shot of the re-set electrical panel. It's a little lower than I would like. The top of the box is 55 inches from the floor. The problem being the old box was already set a little low for my tall frame and was mounted on the flat side of a 2x8 with only a 26 gauge wall. By the time we went through 1" of siding, a 2x6 wall and flushed it out for sheet rock the box had to be lowered due to the length of the existing cable.

In order to pass inspection to get the electricity turned on you need a switched light and an outlet. You also need an outdoor light by the man door which was not included in the bid for the panel. I worked on drilling the holes for the cable last night and set the switch box. I'm kind of waiting for the siding to catch up to the man door so I only have to drill the hole for the box once and can mount the light permanently.

John Keeton

06-24-2008, 9:24 PM

Dave, when you get your electrical layout done, go back and double the number of plugs!! They are like clamps - just can't have too many, and now is the cheapest, easiest time to do it. What height are putting them?

Edited - just noticed if the top of your box is at 55", then the plugs are at about 42" centered?

Rob Russell

06-25-2008, 6:44 AM

Before you plan on putting much load on those attic trusses, I'd check with the manufacturer to see if they rate those bottom chords of the truss for any load. The design of the trusses is essentially to keep the roof up and walls from spreading, so that bottom chord is essentially in tension. That's a lot different than putting a load on top of it.

Dave Lessley

06-25-2008, 10:49 AM

Edited - just noticed if the top of your box is at 55", then the plugs are at about 42" centered?

John The plug, light and switch you see now were temporarily placed by the electrician to satisfy the inspector. To get power back to my panel the inspector wants to see a plug, and a switched light inside the building and an outdoor light switched or auto sensor type by the man door. Once I pass inspection I will tear out the temporary stuff and put in my own and then have another inspection.

The current plan is to have 4 outlet circuits each 20 amps. With two circuits running left and right of the panel with the outlets from each circuit alternating down each wall until they meet on the back wall providing me with an outlet every six feet. If I remember correctly that gives me 4-5 outlets per circuit. The wiring will come in from the top of the wall so as not to have any wiring crossing the wall at any point (so I don't have to worry about hanging things on the wall. The bathroom outlet will be on it's own circuit with a GFCI outlet.

By code each circuit must lead off with a GFCI outlet feeding the rest down stream. I have considered using a GFCI breaker in the box for each circuit but I have heard that the GFI portion of the breaker can wear out before the actual breaker. At $60.00 a piece I think replacing a failed GFCI outlet would be cheaper.

In addition to the regular outlets I have planned a 110v 30 amp circuit to the bathroom for the on demand water heater, 220v 30 amp circuit for the compressor, 220v for the dust collector ( I forget the amps on that one right now) and also a circuit for the Heater(s).

There will be a few odd ball circuits like for a garage door opener etc. The height of the outlets will be 53" to the top of the box allowing for 48" material to be stacked against the wall.

Sorry to run on. What do you think?

Dave Lessley

06-25-2008, 11:15 AM

Before you plan on putting much load on those attic trusses, I'd check with the manufacturer to see if they rate those bottom chords of the truss for any load.

Rob,
The trusses were engineered to accomodate lite storage. As I will only have pull down stair access I will not be huffing anything large or heavy up there. The main intent was for small lite things. For example with the advent of digital cameras I was afraid that 35mm film canisters would become harder to find. Several years ago I filled up two 32 gal garbage cans with film cans acquired from a photo processing plant. They don't weigh much but I don't want them taking up shop space. I also have a bunch of rope that was being cast off by an electrical contractor. Snow tires come to mind. Storage for spare fluorescent light bulbs. That kind of stuff.

Dave Lessley

06-25-2008, 11:35 AM

Builder did not show up. Spoke with him this morning and he has strep throat.

I didn't get alot done as I went to a service project for a member of my church. He came up with a free hot tub and needed it moved from off his trailer over the top of a 5 foot cyclone fence and on to his deck in the backyard. There were about 10 of us and it went a whole lot smoother than what I thought. It sure clarifies the old saying many hands make light work.

I did finish drilling a bunch of holes for cables across the top plate above the breaker box, cut the whole and set the electrical box for the light above the man door and ran the cable from the panel to the switch and from the switch to the light box. Tonight I will tack it down and make up the connections.

John Keeton

06-25-2008, 6:08 PM

Nearly every tool in my shop runs on 220v. There are many times that I have one or more on at the same time, so I actually have separate circuits each of them. The wire cost for "home runs" is a little more, and the cost of the breakers a little more, but I didn't want to have to worry about it. The rest of the plan sounds good.

Dave Lessley

06-26-2008, 9:46 AM

John,

All my 220v equipment will have it's own circuit except maybe three. The tablesaw, planer and jointer. I will have to wait and see how the layout out ends up but right now these three machines will be in the center of the room. My goal is to hang one circuit from the ceiling to minimize electrical drops and would run it down the same place as my dust collection.
As I have young children I'm pretty conscientious about equipment being live. I unplug all machines after use. As they get older and understand the danger and consequences this can be moderated. I want them to feel welcome in the shop but when they are in there I stop working and give them my full attention. When they decide they have had enough and go back to the house I go back to work. Sometimes that can take a while and a bird house or two later. With my oldest it's a way to see how measuring, math and problem solving work. For my youngest it's just being with dad and discovering things. Right now she loves to sweep.
My plan is to put recessed twist lock male plugs in the cabinets of these machines and will plug the end of an extension cord from the drop into the machine. This way only one machine at a time could be turned on and that is the machine I'm using. It's very quick to unplug when making blade changes etc. I also use locks on the power switches in case they decide to plug it in them selves. If I find this too restrictive I can always add additional circuits
Any ideas ? Again I am just sharing what I have come up with. None of this is in concrete. My hopes by sharing is that people will share what has worked for them so I can benefit from their experiences. No sense in re-inventing the wheel. I appreciate your input.

Dave Lessley

06-26-2008, 9:52 AM

Another no show. He said earlier in the day that he would be out in the afternoon but saw no signs of him being there. I worked some more on the wiring. Need to hit the box store and pick up a couple of items. Will do that at lunch today.

OK to be fair here I just spoke with my builder and the guy does sound miserable. He does have strep throat. I know his wife had it a little more than a week ago. He say's he has been down for three days and it's killing him. I told him not to croak yet he wasn't done with my job yet. He assured me he would to expire until after he had completed his commitment.

John Keeton

06-26-2008, 12:36 PM

I'm past the young children age, although I fully understand that situation from earlier years. On occasion I have the grandkids in the shop, but in a controlled environment as you mentioned.

I like the idea of an overhead plug. My tablesaw cord runs 18 feet across my floor to a plug. I'm used to it now, but initially it was a pain. Hope the workers get back on the job.

Rob Russell

06-26-2008, 1:25 PM

If you still have the ultimate in flexibility on your wiring, why not put in a large subpanel right next to your main panel. Install a locking disconnect between the 2 and lock it off when you're not there. Run all of your machine circuits out of that second subpanel.

Have things like the lighting, heat, hot water, etc. out of the main panelboard.

That way you can be sure that your tools and machine circuit are energized only when you want them to be energized.

Dave Lessley

06-26-2008, 2:43 PM

Dave Lessley

06-26-2008, 2:50 PM

I'm past the young children age

John, I should be, but started late in life. I watched too many friends get married and divorced when I was younger to just go out and get married for the sake of getting married. It just took me a while to find her. I'm 54 and have 9 and 5 year old girls. Wouldn't go back for anything. Sometimes I question my sanity.

John Keeton

06-26-2008, 4:38 PM

Stroke of genius, Rob! And this is why the creek is so valuable.

I had forgotten that in our previous home, that is exactly how I powered my shop. I had the electrician (I don't play with that stuff!) run off a 60 amp breaker to a smaller box to feed my shop circuits. The shop was smaller than what I have now. Sounds like a great idea for the machines, particularly with the locking disconnect. I would guess that you could do the same with a 100 amp breaker, but as I said, I don't play with that stuff. Rob may know the answer to that.

Dave, on the kids/marriage thing, I will be 60 this year and if I had 9 and 5 year olds, the guys in white coats would be feeding me supper! I love my 13 grandkids, but not sure I could do that 24/7. I admire you!

Jim Becker

06-26-2008, 7:23 PM

What Rob suggests is how I "wish" I would have done my shop. A total machine cut-off is a darn good safety idea.

Ted Jay

06-26-2008, 10:44 PM

Rob,

That's a great idea! I'm not sure exactly how to execute it. My primary go to guy on residential and commercial electrical questions was our head of maintenance here at work. He retired last Friday. I know it would be a matter of a breaker in the main panel feeding the sub panel but how big of a breaker and what size wire? Hmmmm. There is still time to explore this. I have not run any wire outside of what I need to do to get the panel hot.

Thank you,

Here Dave you need one of these....
Like and old Frankenstein movie, sparks flying.... scare the heck outa the kids though, but ya gotta yell "they're alive" when ya hit the switch...

I'm a sick man, i know.

Dave Lessley

06-27-2008, 2:37 PM

Well as we discussed yesterday the builder is down sick. I finished up the outdoor light last night. It's a cheep halogen with motion and dawn to dusk capability. I put it on a switch so I can turn it off when the kids and I are looking at the stars. The switch is in a double box the other switch will control the light up at the top of the gable on the front of the shop. It will be a dusk to dawn only style. I'm changing from a high pressure sodium to a fluorescent bulb. I'm putting the switch behind the door so people don't inadvertantly turn them off just being helpful. My oldest daughter is very good at that. On the open side of the door will be my four switches for the room lights.

Good News my daughter just called and told me the worker guys showed up and UPS dropped off my pull down attic stairs.

Prashun Patel

06-27-2008, 3:00 PM

Makes me excited just watching.

Makes me jealous ;)

Dave Lessley

07-01-2008, 11:27 AM

Not much happened this week as the builder was only on site for a couple of hours on Monday and a couple on Friday. He decked the bump out for the bathroom and put in a couple of nailers on the inside gable ends that needed to go in before I could run wiring across that area.

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Dave Lessley

07-01-2008, 11:36 AM

The Roofer actually showed up on Day 28 Sunday but we were missing the screen for the ridge vent and the drip molding. So he prepped the panels and stacked them on each side and said he would be back on Monday.

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You know I have no idea what he was thinking when he put that window there. The only thing I can think of is to hang some sort of a sign on the front of the building that says "Dave's Woodworking" or something to cover it up. It was an extra from where the bathroom bumps out so he decided he would put it there. Go figure.

Ted Jay

07-01-2008, 12:52 PM

Dave Lessley

07-01-2008, 1:06 PM

Ted, That was my thought when I asked about where it got placed. The vent stack for the toilet and the sink goes up the facing wall or south side. We decided to put a window that opens in the bathroom. It will be on the west wall which is on the left side of the bump out.

Dave Lessley

07-02-2008, 4:25 PM

Builder said Monday afternoon he would be there bright and early Tuesday and spend the entire day to finish up the siding. Which would basically put it back to me for the electrical. About 10:30 am he called and said he was running behind trying to get a previous job ready for final inspection. Apparently it took the rest of the day.

I spent a little time cleaning up and making a carousel kind of thing for my roll of wire so it will unroll with out being curly. I need to make a few more modifications. If it works I will take a picture. Then it was inside for Daddy duty while Mom went to a meeting.

William Cummins

07-03-2008, 12:25 AM

I spent a little time cleaning up and making a carousel kind of thing for my roll of wire so it will unroll with out being curly. I need to make a few more modifications.

Your new place looks great and is progressing well!

I too needed to make a wire cart/reel spooling deal to cope with the unwinding problem. They wanted a bunch of cash for a commercial model so I whipped one up.
In another post you mentioned that you placed the outdoor light switch behind a door. You can get a locking switch from an electrical supply place, that takes a small key to turn it on and off, and they fit in like a standard switch and use a standard switch plate. I installed one by my doorway to prevent the outside light from getting turned off by accident ....

William...

Dave Lessley

07-07-2008, 4:01 PM

Had a full day from the Builder. He was looking for some money and I was not able to get home at lunch so he worked until I got home. I think I learned something there.

The outside is all sided. We are waiting for a window for the bathroom which was an add on,the man and garage doors and the roof on the bathroom. I have started the wiring. Power was re-connected to the panel late Wednesday afternoon.

With the 4th holiday I did not get much done with a picnic breakfast with my church a movie with the kids a BBQ that night. Saturday was a trip to the motorcyle shop for a quick fix on my bike. A trip to the dump and a wedding reception in the evening. After the reception I worked until about 11:00 PM. Sunday is my day of rest, church and time with the family.

My home made wire dispenser worked. I will try to get a picture tonight when I'm out there. I ran out of wire Saturday night. I think it will be easier to see how it works if there is wire on it.

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So this is where we are today.

Dave Lessley

07-07-2008, 4:06 PM

William,

Great idea thank you, I have seen those before. Actually the lights on our manufacturing floor use that kind of switch. Wonder if the box store carries those or if I will need to go to an electrical supply store?

Thanks again,

DaveL

Ted Jay

07-08-2008, 6:32 PM

Had a full day from the Builder. He was looking for some money and I was not able to get home at lunch so he worked until I got home. I think I learned something there.

The outside is all sided. We are waiting for a window for the bathroom which was an add on,...

So this is where we are today.

While your there, you might as well add an exhaust fan with a timer on it, it may come in handy for "hazardous gas venting".... if you know what I mean?:rolleyes:

Ted

Dave Lessley

07-08-2008, 7:39 PM

Ted,

Good idea

In the post about air cleaners someone mentioned an exhaust fan. Which started me thinking. I had originally planned on putting two attic fans in until reading a bunch of posts on a forum that basically came to the conclusion that attic fans were not as effective as just letting your ridge vent do the work. Supposedly the attic fans suck too much of your conditioning out of your building regardless of how tight you try to make it.

With that said an exhaust fan has a different purpose. I day dreamed up a couple of ideas. One is to put a fan in the attic and with my pull down stairs in the cool of the evening I could open a window or door and the pull down stairs and draw cool air from outside through the shop up the stairs and out of the attic. Which also could exhaust smells as well. Two if we don't want to run fumes up into the attic as in the case of volatile compounds I could just mount an in wall fan and could still draw cool air from outside if I wanted. Just not through the attic. I do have two wall shutters I picked up in a garage sale. I also have an old fan from a dry cleaners that pretty cool and whips up a serious flow of air.

John Keeton

07-08-2008, 8:49 PM

Can you look at a whole-house fan to install in the ceiling to push air up into the attic. Of course, you need enough vent in the attic to carry the volumn of air pushed by the fan.

Dave Lessley

07-09-2008, 10:42 AM

Don Bullock

07-09-2008, 11:00 AM

I have not had any experience with whole house fans. I'll have to look them up on the web. Not knowing anything about them my first concern is when the fan is off how do you keep your heat and A/C in the shop. I'm guessing there is some kind of shutter. Good idea I will go exploring.

Thank you,

Dave, when I was a Kid in Virginia long before AC in homes we had what was called in those days an attic fan. It was a large fan at one end of the attic that extracted hot air out of the attic space. In our central hall there were shutters that opened automatically when the fan was on due to the change in pressure. As I recall the fan did cool the house some especially if all the windows in the house were open and we started the fan in the morning while it was still cool outside. The system was designed to blow the hot air out and draw in the cooler air. While my memory of those days is not as sharp as it once was, I've wondered why attic fans aren't used much any more.

Dave Lessley

07-09-2008, 12:22 PM

Don,

In a previous house I had an attic fan with pull down steps to the attic I had a single pole double throw switch in the traditional off position it went through the thermostat. in the traditional on position it by passed the thermostat and was on all the time. As it cooled off out side in the evening I would open the basement and bedroom windows and put a pop can in the pull down stairs to keep them open. The fan would pull air from the basement and bedroom windows up through the house and out through the attic. When I got up in the morning I would take the can out and flip the switch to the traditional off position and go to work. If the attic heated up during the day the fan would automatically come on and pull air from the attic and soffit vents. It worked great. That was sort of my orginal plan for the shop. Thought I would wait and see what temperatures I maintained once everything was buttoned up and insulated.

John Keeton

07-09-2008, 1:11 PM

Ted Jay

07-09-2008, 1:42 PM

Dave, in our previous home we had a ceiling whole house fan (from Lowes I think?) that had a louvered cover. We switched the fan on the wall like a light switch. When the fan came on the louvers opened. Of course, like I mentioned, you have to have enough venting in the attic to permit the fan to push the volume it needs to push to get the job done. It was very effective and would have installed one in this home, but the design of the home didn't lend itself to that application.

I would suggest that while you are running copper, you run a switch and a drop for one in the event you want to install one later. You wouldn't need to open your stair well for the ventilation as the louvers will open to pull the air through the shop.

John,
At my ex FIL's house he had the same type of setup.

One day we were going to vent the house, (I had refinished the hardwood floors ealier in the afternoon so the smell was strong). He wanted me to turn the fan on when he said, he was going to open a window at the far end of the house. He decided on the way there to yell something to me about something, so I hit the switch. The fan takes a second to power up, the louvers go flying open, UHH the fan was oversized... big time.

Then I see this trail of white come around the corner and straight up and out into the attic. Then I hear him yelling to shut it off... about 3 times. I hit the switch.... seems he never did get to thatwindow, he was almost to the fireplace. When I hit that switch the suction created by that whole house "oversized" fan sucked all the ashes and soot out of that fireplace, down the hall around the corner and up into the attic. I watched it go by... it was pretty!!! Being there was no open window in the house it had to take air from somewhere....

When I stepped around the corner to see what was wrong, he was covered with ashes and soot just on the front of his body, he looked like Al Jolsen in blackface.
Still funny though when I think about it, at least he thought it was funny too, after I started laughing, (missed the in-laws more than I missed the ex after the divorce).

Ted

David G Baker

07-09-2008, 2:01 PM

Ted,
A friend of mine had a 36 inch belt driven fan in the center of his house that had the louver set up. He would open windows on the cool side of the house and draw the outside air in. The fan did a great job of cooling the house. He had large screened vents in his attic that moved the air out.
The thing I didn't like about the fan was the noise of the fan and the air movement.
Think the fireplace mishap might have clinched the divorce? :D

John Keeton

07-09-2008, 5:29 PM

Great story Ted!! That would have been great on video. Being right at 60 yrs old, I was raised without air conditioning. I also grew up in Eastern Ky, coal mine country. They used shaft fans to exhaust the gases from mine shafts. The fans were about 4-5 feet in diameter. While they didn't turn super fast, they moved a bunch of air!

The house I grew up in had been pulled together from a Civil War era house that was moved by mules several yards, and built onto somewhere around 1900. In the "new" section, they installed a shaft fan in the gable end away from the weather and against the hill. Actually, everything there was "against the hill" on one side or the other!

When my Mom turned on that fan in the evening, and opened the attic access, you better have everything weighted down. It emptied the whole house in seconds. It really was amazing quiet with virtually no vibration. We would sit in the living room, watching the Lawrence Welk show, with nothing less than a hurricane wind coming thru the house! Ah, the good ol' days!!

Dave Lessley

07-15-2008, 5:02 PM

Finally made conact with my builders wife yesterday after not having contact with him for almost two weeks. Granted I'm doing the wiring portion of things at the moment and he is sort of waiting on me but I was expecting my garage and man door and a window for the bathroom. At which point I will be able to secure the building.

I've been told there was a family emergency and he has made arrangements with another builder to finish his jobs and there should be enough money in the account at the building supply to cover the rest of the materials. Is this giving anyone warm fuzzies?

The person who is supposed to be taking over is the guy who subcontracted my roof so I have at least met him and am currently trying to make conact with him.

I guess we'll see how it shakes out.

Barry Reade

07-15-2008, 6:00 PM

I hope it turns out OK but, it sounds like the standard contractor's soap opera. I will be watching and hoping you beat the averages.

Dave Lessley

08-04-2008, 5:06 PM

I was thinking where would a family emergency take you that you would not take your cell phone with you.... Jail maybe ? While discussing this thought with my boss he suggested I might find something on the internet if he had been picked up.

It took a couple of searches and up popped an article from the local newspaper. I don't think he will be back to finish up the job. He was picked up on a federal warrant for trafficking high potency pot and ecstacy from British Columbia to Alaska, money laundering, tending grow farms in Alaska where a co-conspiritor was murdered. The murder has not been solved but he is not charged with it.

In case the questions are coming to your mind. I did my due diligence. He was licensed, bonded and insured. I called on his references and went and looked at the work he did and a custom home he was finishing up before he would be starting on my job.

Things have slowed way down on the project. Fortunately it was to a point that I can pretty much finish it with a friend who is a carpenter. I have been pulling wire. I have the 110v done and need to buy the wiring for the 220v stuff.

I chased down the roofer to finish the bathroom roof which was not ready when he did the main roof.

I have the roll-up door on order which will take about six weeks.

Pictures of wiring are not very exciting so once things start to happen again I'll get some more pictures posted.

Don Bullock

08-04-2008, 10:40 PM

Wow, and I thought I had problems when I found out that my contractor lost his license and insurance, but failed somehow to mention that. I've fired him and hired another one. Fortunately I didn't loose any money in the deal.

Ben Cadotte

08-04-2008, 11:22 PM

I am hoping that you did normal payment in 1/3rds. And since final inspection has not been completed, you have not paid the last 1/3rd!

John Keeton

08-05-2008, 6:04 AM

Dave, check the material suppliers to make sure they have all been paid. You wouldn't want any last minute surprises with materialmen liens being filed. Hope everything works out for you. Sounds like you did all you could to protect yourself. The drug business is getting to be a real problem - those guys can make a lot more doing that than building.

I used to be a prosecutor and we prosecuted a 15 yr old kid that was employing 3 "mules", working UPS shipments out of Florida for prescription meds. He was CLEARING about $1500 a day. He did it all on his home computer in about 2-3 hours/day.

That boy has two addictions - the pills, and making more money than he will ever make legitimately the rest of his life. I'm not sure which is the tougher addiction.

Keep us posted on progress, and God be with you.

Dave Lessley

08-05-2008, 11:11 AM

I am hoping that you did normal payment in 1/3rds. And since final inspection has not been completed, you have not paid the last 1/3rd!

He had been down from Alaska for just short of a year and was working on a cash basis for materials. I would give him money for materials as we approached each phase of the job. I had just given him the money for insulation, sheet rock and the doors. None of which had been deposited in the cash account for my address at the lumber yard he was using. But the timing was such I don't think he had a chance to do it before he was picked up. Labor I was holding back until work was completed.

To be fair at no time did I feel like he was ripping me off. He showed up to work, worked hard and did a fair job. He was receptive to my input and listened to my concerns. He sincerely wanted to make sure I was happy.

I think he made some poor choices and as I was surprised when I read about it I think he was equally surprised when they kicked in his door and took him into custody.

I just got caught in the crossfire.

He has a wife and 2 or 3 kids I pray for them and him.

Dave Lessley

08-13-2008, 2:27 PM

I have a friend who has worked in the trades that came up last night and will be helping for the duration of the project. Working some evenings and weekends.

The roofer came back and finished the bathroom roof as shown in the photo.

I put the bathroom window in which you can see a corner of in the bathroom photo.

Almost done pulling the wire. 110V is done excepting two circuits. The outdoor outlets and the yard light up in the gable. Need to pull the 240V now. Last night the carpenter was working inside so I worked outside cleaning up the last of the sheet metal from the old building.

94667.................. 94668

Completed bathroom roof .........................Shot of some of the wiring
Metal walls on ground dismantled

94669.................94670
Just to show how small the.....................1969 Honda CL350 I picked up
bathroom really is..................................Left over concrete in the back

Jerry Olexa

08-13-2008, 2:41 PM

wow...your shop project has ended up being quite an adventure. sorry to hear.

Chris Kennedy

08-13-2008, 8:54 PM

Dave,

The shop looks impressive. And while it may have a small bathroom -- it has a bathroom! Put in a wet bar and you might very well have paradise.

It may be little consolation, but when whenever you are in a group of people trading contractor horror stories, at least you will win the "one-downmanship" contest.

Cheers,

Chris

Clancy Courtney

08-14-2008, 5:32 AM

I definitely like the vintage Honda. Good luck!

Dave Lessley

09-11-2008, 3:09 PM

Things have slowed way down on this build. Dang it!

Passed my electical inspection with no written corrections, one verbal correction and one suggestion. The inspector complimented me on my wiring job and said I would not need to call him back for a final that he felt comfortable that I would be doing it correctly.

The verbal correction was to replace my outdoor weather proof outlet covers with the bubble cover kind.

The suggestion was to use a larger box on my box where I have 10/3 with ground going in and back out to another outlet. He said it would make it easier to fit the wires and outlet in and easy to do at this stage of the game.

Now on to a little plumbing in the bathroom and insulation and we'll be ready for sheetrock.

I will try and get some more pictures going as things start to look different.

Jim Becker

09-11-2008, 3:35 PM

Congrats, Dave.

The Inspector's correction and suggestion both make very good sense. The "bubble" exterior outlets permit something to be plugged in without exposing that connection to the weather. And the bigger boxes...something we should all do more often, even when working with smaller gage wire. Boxes are cheap and a little extra space to work can often be a nice blessing.

Dave Lessley

09-17-2008, 6:16 PM

Couple of shots of the start of the insulation and one of the electrical panel.

97086
Man door is set

97087
Hit all the easy places for insulation that didn't require any cutting.

97088
Shot of the electrical panel. The two upper boards to the right of the panel are for the heater hanger. The lower one is for the surface mount thermostat.

Tonight I take a break from insulation and start on the drain and vent pipe in the bathroom.

Thanks for looking in

John Keeton

09-17-2008, 6:51 PM

It's coming together!! Only a matter of time - and more money! Dave, it will be worth the effort when you finally get done. You should be able to beat the winter weather.

Dave Lessley

09-23-2008, 2:15 PM

My carpenter friend showed up Saturday and we spent time putting in some framing for speakers in the ceiling, readjusting the frame on the pull down stairs and boxing in a spot for a paper towel dispenser.

As an after thought I came up with the idea of bolting a few of the old posts from the pole building in the wall for mounting my lumber rack as seen in the photo below. Unfortunately the windows are kind of in the way. I'll figure some way to work around that.

I finished the drain and vent plumbing for the bathroom and have the wet side brought into the wall. Now I need to figure out how to plumb the on demand water heater into the system.

And of course the never ending job of hanging insulation. I've pretty much hung all I can that doesn't need to be cut to a smaller size to fit the space. I had my 9 year old daughter go around an measure the distance on all the smaller openings and write them on the stud. Now I only need to look on the stud and know what size I need to cut. It gave her a chance to practice using a tape measure and writing fractions.

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4x6 studs for mount lumber rack. You can just barely see one of the speaker boxes in the upper right hand corner of the picture.

97391
Drain and Vent Pipe. The drain has a 1/4" per foot drop and the vent has 1/8" per foot drop. Running the vent up through the roof made me anxious but it turned out pretty good. I Will try to get a close up inside and outside so you can see what I ended up with.

Thanks for stopping by,

DaveL