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Jim Becker
06-01-2008, 9:20 PM
I've been considering getting a ZTR for mowing the approximately 2 acres of lawn on our property for some time. While my Kubota BX does an excellent job with the mid-mount mower deck, I'm using it more and more for heavier and heavier landscaping work around here that requires removal of the mower attachment to avoid damaging it. Taking it off and on isn't "hard" but it is tedious, especially with a loose stone driveway. I was going to wait until next year, but...the right deal came along on a very nice (made in USA) SCAG Freedom-Z with a 54" deck.

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But I have to tell you...these things be "different" when you are sitting in the seat as a "newbie" to ZTR driving! LOL Let's just say that I only knocked out one fence post and got stuck only two times in my virgin attempt at cutting the lawn. The former was in the first three minutes. (silly me, should have started learning "someplace else") and the latter when I got into an awkward place next to the driveway. The big orange power tool pulled it back to a place with traction. At least I know how a drunk driver might feel now...:o

That all said, the cut quality is outstanding. The Kubota's deck does a very good job at cutting grass, but I can still see the difference that the higher blade RPM of the ZTR provides. Even with my, um...driving...which did get much better as the afternoon progressed. :)

Of course, my soon-to-be 13 year old daughter is having visions of driving the thing. If only I could know it would mean she would actually be cutting the grass someday...and to my standards. ;)

Ken Fitzgerald
06-01-2008, 9:29 PM
Congrats Jim. If that drives like the Bobcat I rented a few years ago, driving it is an learning experience.

Jim O'Dell
06-01-2008, 10:06 PM
Cool tool!! But the people I know that have them all say that it becomes second nature very quickly, and that there is no other way to mow grass. Enjoy. Once you get the hang of it, it should cut your mowing time down, even though your tractor probably has a bigger mowing deck. Jim.

Matt Meiser
06-01-2008, 10:10 PM
I can easily see how a ZTR would be faster than a mid-mount mower deck--especially if you mow by turning around at the end of each row. While a tractor with a foot-pedal hydrostatic trans is pretty easy to do that, nothing would beat spinning in place.

Jim Becker
06-01-2008, 10:26 PM
The downside to "spinning in place" Matt, is that you can very easily and quickly do turf damage with the tires. A "short" three point turn is just as fast and less risky to the grass. I'm pretty much used to doing that anyway...it's just easier and faster on the ZTR than on the tractor just due to the way they each work. After I get the hang of it, the mowing time actually should decrease since these things can travel, maneuver and cut faster with better quality.

Ken, yea...think Bobcat. Very similar in nature but even more agile.

Stephen Beckham
06-01-2008, 10:30 PM
Aw come on Jim - you're holding back on us... You probably are worried the 13 y/o will have too much fun and not "let" you cut the grass anymore...

Or maybe you're a bit scared that the 13 y/o might handle the Kabota with some Xbox 360 skills and show you up???


I was put to shame when a friend insisted I try his ZTR out... After several attempts to keep a straight line - I laughed it off and got off to drink a beer... Then his teenager said watch this.... :eek::mad::eek::mad::eek: He said trust me - DON'T MOVE... Rascal came straight at me at a high rate diverted to my side and did a flipped a donut around me and headed back out with out loosing speed... I almost dropped my beer... I retreated to the safety of the porch...


Anyway - had another fella started talking about a four on four ZTR soccer match with an oversized ball in the fair this year - it never got any traction...


We did have the one guy that rigged up his ZTR for the lawn tractor pull. This will be his third year - he came close to placing last year - seems to do pretty good because all the weight in the back... He just needs more power...

Versitale little machines... Where were they when I had to do the chores?

Pat Germain
06-01-2008, 11:00 PM
My brother has a ZTR mower. He picked it up cheap from a neighbor who was getting evicted. Bro uses the ZTR to mow around his house which sits on ten acres. A few weeks ago he told me he was having trouble mowing. He didn't think the ZTR was up for the job.

I told Bro to replace the spark plug, replace the air filter, replace the belts and sharpen the blades. By golly, he took my advice and now his ZTR is a mean, mowing machine.

Keith Outten
06-02-2008, 5:25 AM
I remember :)

I bought my current ZTR eight years ago, it now has just over 600 hours on the meter. I spent the majority of this weekend replacing the center hub that I broke last weekend when I hit a tree stump at the edge of my property. I hit the small stump at 8 miles per hour and you should have heard the noise when the bottom of the hub shattered and it is quarter inch steel.

The replacement was a brutal job to do, lots of really large bolts and nuts that would only back off with an impact wrench and I had to buy a 1 1/2" socket to get the top nut off of the spindle. This was one of those jobs that takes two people because the 72" deck is so large you can't reach from the top side to the bottom so I have to be innovative and it took a long time. This morning I'm so sore from pulling on a breaker bar I can hardly move. From now on I will make sure to stay clear of the woods edge which I usually use a bush hog to mow.

The new hub was about 25 pounds and cost me $182.00, this was an expensive mistake that I wont forget :(

I had planned to spend Sunday installing my new table saw extension wing but since the hub install took so long the table saw will have to wait a few more days.

Jim, the larger the deck is it takes more time to get acclimated to the steering. Some people can't adjust and some are naturals who get the hang of it real quick.

.

Rob Russell
06-02-2008, 7:22 AM
The downside to "spinning in place" Matt, is that you can very easily and quickly do turf damage with the tires. A "short" three point turn is just as fast and less risky to the grass. I'm pretty much used to doing that anyway...it's just easier and faster on the ZTR than on the tractor just due to the way they each work. After I get the hang of it, the mowing time actually should decrease since these things can travel, maneuver and cut faster with better quality.


I concur with the need to be careful about "spinning" in place.

I have a 48" Bunton full-hydro deck mower. The full powered reverse is really handy, but you hae to be careful at the end of a row to spin the mower slowly and evenly, otherwise the tires will tear up the turf.

Jason Roehl
06-02-2008, 7:36 AM
Man, what memories. My first experience on a ZTR mower was a Dixon probably 25 years ago when my maternal Grandpa bought one to mow his lawn in SD. He even let me mow his lawn a couple times when I wasn't even 10 years old, though far from full speed... I don't think I've driven a ZTR mower since. A couple years later Dad bought a JD rider for our lawn, but it was the standard engine-in-front setup, and far from zero-turn. To make neat stripes on the lawn at the ends of the rows, I would turn around in the unmowed area, then turn back for the next stripe--kind of a clown-shoe-shaped turn.

Now my wife push-mows. I think it takes her maybe a half-hour, I could probably do it in less than 20 minutes if I wanted to (6' tall has its advantages).

Eddie Watkins
06-02-2008, 9:06 AM
You knd of learn to turn by backing with one tire and going forward with the other to avoid grass damage. I cut my mowing time in about half when I got the ZTR after I got comfortable with it. THe biggest problem I had was running over things with the back of the mower as I turned it. Of course, I bought a diesel because of the lower fuel costs, hows that for foresite?:(

Eddie

Jim Becker
06-02-2008, 9:24 AM
YTHe biggest problem I had was running over things with the back of the mower as I turned it.

That's less of an issue for me as I'm used to maneuvering the Kubota with the backhoe on it...my spacial sense is also pretty good and always has been. 'Shoulda been a pilot or something like that... :)


Of course, I bought a diesel because of the lower fuel costs, hows that for foresite?
LOL! Yea, but at least ZTRs are pretty sippy when it comes to fuel. So is my tractor. But yesterday, I took a run over to NJ to the second cheapest station near Flemington. (another 2 miles would have knocked another penny off of the prices but would have added traffic, etc.) I filled up all my empty diesel containers, my 5 gallon gas container and my Highlander Hybrid. Paid $76 for diesel and $67 for regular gas. In one stop... But the gas was $3.69 (it's approaching four bucks here in PA) and $4.65 for diesel. I figured it would be more next week...so might as well top things off. :(



Jim, the larger the deck is it takes more time to get acclimated to the steering.

That I can imagine. This one has a 54" deck and I chose that over the 48" because of all the trees I need to get close to as well as a fence line. It's a step down from the 60" mid-mount on the tractor, but the mowing will still go faster. I really was getting the hang of things by the end of the day and expect I'll "enjoy" it more next time. With any luck, less time mowing means more shop time. Maybe. There is that landscaping work to do... :o

Greg Cole
06-02-2008, 9:53 AM
Sitting on one of those put me part way through college.... Summers filled with loooong days of mowing more grass than most mow in a lifetime. Anyone remember the old 3 wheeled ones where ya sat over the rear wheel on a buggy style seat?
Oddly enough, I still seem to find myself mowing for some extra $ but with a walk behind..... make better $ doing that than at the day job.:confused:
You'll be used to it in no time and finding yourself making those pretty little lines in your yard that a tractor or push mower can't.
Eddie's tip about one forward and one reverse will save the tearing of the sod quite a bit, also don't mow when the grass is wet or damp and go easy on the "gas pedals".
Nice toy.

Greg

Keith Outten
06-02-2008, 10:09 AM
Less time mowing means less time in the 95 degree heat. Get a surry or sun cover for the really hot days. Going fast with the engine (and the engine heat) behind you and having a sun cover makes mowing on really hot days more bareable.

.

Jim Becker
06-02-2008, 10:50 AM
While I like the idea of the sun cover, it would not be compatible with the trees and bushes on the property. I did insist on a ROPS, however, and that was one of the things that pushed the SCAG ahead of the Hustler I also considered. (Also a very nice USA-made machine and comparable in cost) So I wear a hat to catch what sun gets through the trees. :)

Rob Bodenschatz
06-02-2008, 11:10 AM
Great minds must think alike, Jim. I just took delivery of a Scag Freedom Z a few weeks ago. Love it.

Now, do you see why I couldn't buy your Performax? ;)

Jim Becker
06-02-2008, 12:19 PM
Rob...yup. :D

Ken Garlock
06-02-2008, 12:36 PM
Boy, oh boy, you you two, Jim, Rob, are really smart fellows.;)

I have owned the Scag Tiger Cub since 2002. It will mow as short as our Snapper walk-behind. It will also mow down shoulder high Johnson grass, but it takes two passes.

Have fun with the last mower you will ever need to buy.:)

Your mowers may not have this problem, but I find that the Peltor 30db ear muffs are a welcome addition to the mowing experience. The newer models may have a quieter exhaust system. My mower has a 19hp, v-2, Kawasaki engine.

When I took delivery on the Tiger Cub, the delivery man said that the only way to run it was full throttle. That seems to work for me.

Joe Mioux
06-02-2008, 12:47 PM
I have been running my SCAG Tiger Cub since 2003.

I absolutely love it.

As previously mentioned, 180 degree turns can tear up the yard. There are turning techniques that minimize/eliminate that problem.

Also keep the ZTR out of ditches. They don't manuever well when the grass is slick or there is a bit of water in the ditch.

Sharpening blades is pretty easy. A johnson bar similar to the MM16 bar is worth having if a jack isn't available. I just bought an ATV jack for my Scag, but I still need to an extra block of wood to raise the front wheels off the ground sufficiently to clear the spindle axel/blade from the bearing assembly.


joe

Rob Bodenschatz
06-02-2008, 12:49 PM
Also keep the ZTR out of ditches. They don't manuever well when the grass is slick or there is a bit of water in the ditch.


I know that...


now.


:o

Jim Becker
06-02-2008, 1:10 PM
Also keep the ZTR out of ditches. They don't manuever well when the grass is slick or there is a bit of water in the ditch.

Yea, that was sorta how I had issue with the aforementioned fence post, but I otherwise did stay out of the wet, mowing around "lake Becker" from the torrential thunderstorms we had on Saturday and Saturday night.


Your mowers may not have this problem, but I find that the Peltor 30db ear muffs are a welcome addition to the mowing experience. The newer models may have a quieter exhaust system. My mower has a 19hp, v-2, Kawasaki engine.

I don't prefer muffs for hearing protection, but use a band from AO Safety that is comfortable for me and stays out of the way of my hat and sun/safety glasses. I opted for the 26hp B&S v2 engine rather than the Kawasaki to save a few hundred dollars. My usage is on the low end of the capability of the machine so I didn't feel I needed to go for the "pro" engine. I have the Kubota and it's diesel for heavy work.


When I took delivery on the Tiger Cub, the delivery man said that the only way to run it was full throttle. That seems to work for me.

My dealer suggested I stick to a slightly lower throttle while I got used to the steering, etc. Good advise, IMHO. But full throttle would spin the blades even faster which helps account for the most excellent cut these things provide! I'll get there...

Rob Bodenschatz
08-10-2008, 11:35 AM
Hey Jim, any complaints on the Z yet? I've got one.

You know the pin that holds the height adjustment? I looked down one day (only after about 2-3 mows) and it was busted. The top half of the plastic ball sheared off. Not a big deal since the bottom half of the ball was still there so it would stay in place. Nevertheless, I wanted a new one so I called my dealer. He informed me that the ($5) part is not covered under warranty (even though there's no mention of any such exclusion in the documentation). Okay, I just spent almost $6K in your shop last month so surely you can get me one, right? "Only if you pay for it." was the response. Long story short, I got one free straight from Scag and will not be using that dealer again. So then I plugged the new pin in. First mow, it broke. Same as the first. This time I saw it happen as I hit a bump in my yard. Apparently it didn't like the shock.

I'm going to get in touch with Scag about this since it seems like this may be a design flaw. Other than that, I love this machine!

Joe Mioux
08-10-2008, 12:45 PM
Hey Jim, any complaints on the Z yet? I've got one.

You know the pin that holds the height adjustment? I looked down one day (only after about 2-3 mows) and it was busted. The top half of the plastic ball sheared off. Not a big deal since the bottom half of the ball was still there so it would stay in place. Nevertheless, I wanted a new one so I called my dealer. He informed me that the ($5) part is not covered under warranty (even though there's no mention of any such exclusion in the documentation). Okay, I just spent almost $6K in your shop last month so surely you can get me one, right? "Only if you pay for it." was the response. Long story short, I got one free straight from Scag and will not be using that dealer again. So then I plugged the new pin in. First mow, it broke. Same as the first. This time I saw it happen as I hit a bump in my yard. Apparently it didn't like the shock.

I'm going to get in touch with Scag about this since it seems like this may be a design flaw. Other than that, I love this machine!

my pin is all steel.

Jim Becker
08-10-2008, 2:47 PM
No complaints at all, Rob....wonderful machine. And I feel pretty comfortable on it at this point. Noisier than mowing with the Kubota--hearing protection is not optional--but I'm pleased in pretty much every way. I've had no issue with the part you described. Bummer that your dealer isn't interested in your future business... ;)

Rob Bodenschatz
08-10-2008, 2:50 PM
my pin is all steel.

Mine is not.

Marjorie Saws
08-11-2008, 11:57 AM
Then his teenager said watch this.... :eek::mad::eek::mad::eek: He said trust me - DON'T MOVE... Rascal came straight at me at a high rate diverted to my side and did a flipped a donut around me and headed back out with out loosing speed... I almost dropped my beer... I retreated to the safety of the porch...



That's what you call serious skills.