Working with home center cedar

[J. Z. Guest]

I just bought a load of cedar lumber from Menards to build an adirondack loveseat. (from plans in American Woodworker)

I have a couple of questions:

1) I have stacked & stickered them in my garage. At Menards, they were stacked but not stickered, and lots of them feel pretty damp. I'm wondering if it is because it is cedar and there is still some oil or chemical in it or if it really just is damp?

2) Will two weeks in the stack be enough?

3) The plans say that they used home center lumber. The tools they recommend are: table saw, bandsaw (or jigsaw), and a cordless drill. (miter saw as handy option) They don't mention a jointer, yet a lot of the photos show boards that appear to be fresh from the jointer. They don't mention anything about jointing wood either, but do talk about ripping it. That seems kind of risky to me, though this wood is a lot straighter than the stud 2x4 stuff I've seen. (as well it should be for $13 a board!)

[Stephen Edwards]

Jeremy,

What species of cedar do you have? I've worked a lot with what's typically called eastern red cedar. I don't know much about western cedar, having worked very little with it.

[J. Z. Guest]

I don't know, it just says cedar. Being in the Chicago area, I assume it is Eastern cedar of some type.

[Jesse Cloud]

Home center lumber isn't usually protected much from the elements (look at the stacks behind the store sometime) and this cedar may have been rained on or stored in a really humid place. I'll bet there's another creeker in Chicagoland with a moisture meter. Borrow that and wait until you get to a decent moisture level. Test some wood that has been in your shop for a while and wait for the cedar to get to the same level.

Otherwise, when you rip, its gonna warp.:eek:

[Stephen Edwards]

I don't know, it just says cedar. Being in the Chicago area, I assume it is Eastern cedar of some type.

If it's eastern red cedar it'll have a pinkish color to it under the weathered surface, might even have purple and or white streaks in it. The sap wood will be white, possibly with grey streaks in that. The knots will be very dark, if it has knots. If it's eastern red cedar I can tell you about my experience with it.

If it's a light brown, tan or white color then it's some other kind of cedar and I can't tell you much about that.

You could sand a small area on the back of a piece to find out.

[Matt Ocel]

Jeremy -
IMHO I would worry more about the material being straight and less on moisture content.

I would build the chairs while the material is in good shape - no bows, twists, warps, its easier to work with.

I would let them season for a couple of months, clean them up, then use a good finish.

[J. Z. Guest]

Jeremy -
IMHO I would worry more about the material being straight and less on moisture content.

I would build the chairs while the material is in good shape - no bows, twists, warps, its easier to work with.

I would let them season for a couple of months, clean them up, then use a good finish.

Matt, a couple of clarifications:

To your first paragraph, it is straight now. To your second paragraph, it is in good shape now. But it feels moist.

But then, in your last paragraph, you say to wait a couple months. It seems like if I wait a couple months, it may not be straight any more.

I'm also thinking about my shop conditions and how much I can expect the wood to dry out. My "shop" is really my garage, and this time of year in Chicagoland, it is warm & dry half the time, (maybe 40% humidity) and warm & humid the other half. (maybe 85-90% humidity) So I don't think it will ever reach the ideal 8% humidity while seasoning in my shop.

I had read elsewhere (in a Bob Moran woodworking book I think) that one should wait at least two weeks, but around here, people usually consider no less than two months. :eek: That puts me at the end of the summer before I can even start.

[Matt Ocel]

Jeremy -

Thats why I would build your chairs now, when the material is in good "working" shape.

After you cut, assemble, and fastened you chairs together the material will stay rather stable.

Your moisture content may be high and as the chairs sit out in the sun the joints will open a bit, (with cedar this cannot be avoided) the cedar will dry out then clean them up and apply your finish. They'll look good for years.

Once again IMHO.

please note - the longer that material sits in your garage "drying out" the more it will warp, twist, bend, cup, well you know.

[Jack Camillo]

Matt,
do you think it's necessary to wait a while before finishing? I'm in the process of building a pergola with western red cedar. The boards aren't "wet," but i could see the moisture in the 6x6 posts. I was thinking about sealing as soon as I'm done building. Bad idea?

[Matt Ocel]

Jack -

Yeah - I would defineatley let it sit out in the sun a couple of months, let it dry out.

Then you can take the proper steps to finish it.

Your patience will be rewarded!

[Clara Koss]

matt ocel seems to have the right idea about working with your cedar... it makes more sense to do the work now that the wood is straigh and in good shape rather than have it dry out , warp and separate...once the piece is made it should hold it's shape while it dries and after it is dry seal it... good luck...:p

[Jack Camillo]

Thanks Matt. This is my first wr cedar project. An amazing wood, it is. Glad I caught your posts. Cao.
jack

[Peter Quinn]

I wouldn't worry about cedar for an out door adirondack chair or love seat being either perfectly dry or perfectly straight. I wouldn't try to hold that wood to the same standards you would hold fine furniture grade hard woods. I haven't seen those particular plans but the adirondack style is a pretty casual one and most chairs in that style are not fussy pieces filled with complicated precise jointery.

As far as being dry, do you plan to rush them into conditioned space each time the humidity goes up or it rains? I'm guessing they'll get wet some time, probably move a bit, possibly check here and there, and then look even more lovely for the wear.

I've been guilty of approaching out door building projects with the same mindset as finer shop work and it is often more of a hinderance than a help to me to do so.

[J. Z. Guest]

Thanks a lot fellas. That's what I'll do then. It has been stacked in my garage for a couple days now, and that will have to do.

The plans call for counterboring the deck screw holes, and gluing plugs in, but I don't think I'm going to do that either. I want to be able to snug up the screws later, if the need should arise.

Thanks also for the tip on letting it sit out for a while before finishing. I would not have done that otherwise.

[Jeff Heil]

If you haven't work with cedar before, I would recommend using SS screws, they won't give you black streaks when exposed to the elements like metal or even coated deck screws do.

[Lawrence Smith]

I recently purchased some cedar from our local Home Depot to make some large eight sided flower pots. The joints were tight after building them however they opened after a few weeks outside in the garden. The cedar was obviously green that I purchased and I did not have a moisture meter at the time to check it. Before I ever do another cedar project I will have a meter and check the moisture content until the wood is stable. It is very aggravating to spend the time making a project and have it end up looking like some beginner made it. Even the joints that were splined and glued together pulled apart.

my$.02

[Chris Padilla]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=81446

I've been working with Western Red Cedar for several weeks now, Jeremy.

I didn't get mine from the home center, but a real bonafide lumber yard. At that, my 2x6s were construction grade and I should have searched for a better grade because these are a bit too knotty and not as straight as I would have liked. They did come kiln-dried. My 2x6s did warp a little bit but not to the extent that I can't handle but some stayed much straighter than others. Wood: a fickle medium! :)

My 1x6s were a step above construction grade and thus much, much clearer and definately straighter and also kiln-dried.

I did lots and lots of planing and jointing to get my stuff in shape and the shop always smelled WONDERFUL duirng and after milling.

Sharp tools are a must as cedar is soft...very soft. So soft that if you look at it funny, it will dent. Seriously. Every little bang, scrape, and nick will show up. Pencils leave deep marks (use chalk). Be conscious of your surroundings when swinging your freshly milled lumber around.

As far as moving on you, this is a tough one. Some say do it now and others say wait and hope for the best. I'm in the camp of making sure the wood is acclimated and you don't want it acclimating (i.e. moving a lot) either during or after your project because that strikes me as either a lesson in futility getting joints to line up or frustration as the chairs falling apart on you.

On my gate, I'm using as slow setting an epoxy as I could find locally. On a recent dry (clamp) run, I learned some things on how I should approach gluing up my gate even with ample set time, it took me a while to work out the procedure.

I also suggest any point of contact with the ground be sealed with epoxy.

Cedar has been interesting to work with. :)

[Bob Feeser]

home depot cedar
cherry pick it when nice batches come in
You'll get about 30 or 35 boards out of a stack of 200
Planed to 7/8" then T&G it makes a nice exterior wall
Seal it in Sikkens paint 2 stage, expensive but lasts forever
It is airtight, and the only natural insulation-wood. I can put my hand on it when it is in the teens outside, and it is warm to the touch on the inside. The inside with the boards you see showing, and 2x4 cedar studs, sanded and finished is all there is.
Butt em up tight, a little shrinkage is normal, but not much with a dry batch. The T&G maintains a tight seal.

[J. Z. Guest]

Jeff, Lawrence, Chris: You're scaring me!

I just started cutting out the rear legs yesterday. I thought about it, and since the plan was designed for construction center cedar, if I let it acclimate, then find that it is no longer straight and has to be milled, the plans will be no good because the dimensions have changed. On the other hand, if I build it now, there is a chance that things will open up later. I chose the risk the latter, since the joinery is not complex. (glue & screws, no "real" joinery.)

It seems like the best way to go would be to buy oversize construction grade, let it acclimate, then mill it down as necessary to get straight lumber. Oh, and use plans that accomodate this. (it seems like custom plans would be the only ones, since the magazines sell because they advertise using construction grade lumber as-is)

Jeff: I thought about stainless screws, but the expense is too much for a simple adirondack loveseat. $35 for a box, ouch! I'm going to just hope for the best with my Spax plated ones.

Chris: Thanks for your detailed experience, it was most helpful and I'll probably refer back to this frequently during the next few weeks!

Lawrence: I'm crossing my fingers. This design has no "proper" joinery, so hopefully, if it loosens up, I can just tighten the screws a bit. Otherwise, it will have been an expensive lesson. ($180 for all the materials, and its SOFTWOOD. The Ash for the two nightstands was only $280...)

Bob: Beautiful work, as usual. The only problem is that your house is becoming so beautiful that your wife might get funny ideas about how much money it is worth. Careful! ;) Also, your review of the Bosch random-orbit sander on Amazon was super-helpful. Thanks.

[Jeff Heil]

The coated will last for a while. I would expect you may be sanding/ refinishing down the road, if the screws are exposed you will have to be careful not to sand thru the coating or replace the screws. Better yet, cut some cedar plugs with a plug cutter and hide the plated ones completely.

I used all stainless on my cedar deck, when you spend the money for good cedar the screws aren't much in comparrison IMHO.

Good luck with your project!

[Mark Ball]

As far as plugging the holes, I wouldn't skip that step. I built some adirondack chairs a number of years ago and didn't plug them. It seems like that is where the finish fails first. Water gets in under the finish and then starts to wreck havoc. I would get a plug cutter and cut the plugs from some scraps of the same wood. With cedar, it won't be hard or time consuming to cut and sand the flush.

[J. Z. Guest]

As far as plugging the holes, I wouldn't skip that step. I built some adirondack chairs a number of years ago and didn't plug them. It seems like that is where the finish fails first. Water gets in under the finish and then starts to wreck havoc. I would get a plug cutter and cut the plugs from some scraps of the same wood. With cedar, it won't be hard or time consuming to cut and sand the flush.

OK, I will plug them then. I have plug cutters already. Hopefully, I will have enough scrap to cut all the face grain plugs.

As for sanding them flush, I'll probably rout them flush with a flush trim jig. It would be a kick in the nuts to leave the screws exposed so I could tighten them, then have the wood rot out instead. :D