Sharpening: Are water stones really better?

[Bess Kilmaren]

My father taught me to sharpen his kitchen knives on traditional Arkansas oil stones, and I've continued to sharpen my woodwoorking tools on the two (soft and hard black) I inherited from him. But, getting more seriously into woodworking, I've now spent some time on the internet and heard about the miracle of Japanese water stones. My question is: are they really significantly improved over my oil stones to justify the expense of my getting a set? I can get a pretty decent edge using my oil stones, but possibly not the "extra extra visible-only-under-an-electron-microscope one-molecule-thick sharp" edge I hear bandied about after sharpening using water stones. (Some exaggeration for dramatic effect.) I also have to resharpen more often than I care to, although that might be more due to the inferior quality of my chisels (blue-handled Irwins -- I'm saving up for Ashley Iles as we speak).

If they are worth my switching over, what is considered the basic set I would need? What grits, flattening equipment, etc.? (I'm sharpening only chisels and plane blades, nothing fancy like carving tools.) And what are recommended types and brands? There are so many water stones out there that I'm tempted to paste all the advertisements to a wall and throw a dart at them to choose.

Advice, lectures, rants, and bickering all appreciated.

[Don C Peterson]

I actually went from using waterstones to using Arkansas stones. The waterstones cut faster, particularly when using some of the more "modern" alloy steels, but I use diamond plates for basic shaping and hard black Arkansas stone for honing and finish up with a strop and green paste.

I got tired of having to flatten the waterstones all the time or worse yet, dealing with the poor results if I didn't...

[Rostislav Grigoriev]

I got tired of having to flatten the waterstones all the time or worse yet, dealing with the poor results if I didn't...
Somehow, this is just part of a routine. I even don't think it is possible to sharpen something without first to flatten my stone. The major complaint is mess. I was not able to figure out how to deal with it so far or how to organize my workplace...

[Casey Gooding]

You can certainly get a keener edge on waterstones than oilstones. Although, technique is paramount for either method. To start out, get 800 or 1000 and an 8000 stone. They can take care of 90% of your needs. Use sandpaper for anything coarser and you'll be just fine.

[Mike Henderson]

You can certainly get a keener edge on waterstones than oilstones. Although, technique is paramount for either method. To start out, get 800 or 1000 and an 8000 stone. They can take care of 90% of your needs. Use sandpaper for anything coarser and you'll be just fine.
My opinion is that the jump from 1000 to 8000 is too big a jump - you'll have to spend too much time on the 8000 taking out the scratches from the 1000. I would recommend a 1000 and a 5000.

Mike

[Jamie Cowan]

I use both oil and waterstones. Sort of went on a sharpening binge recently, and bought some of each. I think I like the waterstones better, but I couldn't really tell you why. To flatten them, I rub two of them together if I have a lot of reshaping to do. Otherwise, I just scrub them with Gojo pumice soap. Laugh all you want, it works great.

I would agree that the waterstones seem to cut faster, as I bought a couple Henry Taylor fishtail gouges that came pretty sharp, but the edges were all wavy (as opposed to a straight edge). Tried to cut them down with Arkansas, and it was taking forever. Cleaned up my mess, switched to a 1000 grit waterstone. Got the edge I wanted in no time. Then used a 6000 grit to make it pretty, stropped with green compound after that, and got great results. On the other hand, my Arkansas stones (soft and black) are pretty short, only about five inches long. My waterstones are about twice that size, so I can take longer strokes. That might account for the perceived "faster cut," but I can't say for sure. I'm certainly no expert. I don't really think it matters which you use, but I know the waterstones seem to work good for a hack like me.

[Wiley Horne]

Hi Bess,


My father taught me to sharpen his kitchen knives on traditional Arkansas oil stones, and I've continued to sharpen my woodwoorking tools on the two (soft and hard black) I inherited from him. But, getting more seriously into woodworking, I've now spent some time on the internet and heard about the miracle of Japanese water stones. My question is: are they really significantly improved over my oil stones to justify the expense of my getting a set?

If you are using high carbon steel blades, and since you are already used to using Arkansas stones, I think you should simply perfect what you are already doing. And not start a whole new system. It would help you to get some assistance from someone who is expert at using oil stones--and who does use them--I would suggest Joel Moskowitz at Tools for Working Wood (no affiliation, no financial interest, just a well-satisfied customer from time to time).

Here is an excellent article on sharpening published on Joel's website:

http://www.antiquetools.com/sharp/

I would suggest you read the article, then either email or call Joel directly to discuss your own sharpening experience.


I can get a pretty decent edge using my oil stones, but possibly not the "extra extra visible-only-under-an-electron-microscope one-molecule-thick sharp" edge I hear bandied about after sharpening using water stones. (Some exaggeration for dramatic effect.)

Again, if you are using high-carbon steel, you can get an outstandingly sharp edge using oil stones. I have received many outstanding edges from Clark & Williams, who use oil stones, these edges slide right through the edge of a sheet of newsprint like my water stone edges. You might want to add a translucent stone for final hone. Bottom line: sharpening is all about technique, and there are no magic stones--get good with what you are using.


I also have to resharpen more often than I care to, although that might be more due to the inferior quality of my chisels (blue-handled Irwins -- I'm saving up for Ashley Iles as we speak).

It is either due to the Irwin chisels, or else they are not getting perfectly sharp to start with. The chisels themselves would account for it.


If they are worth my switching over, what is considered the basic set I would need? What grits, flattening equipment, etc.? (I'm sharpening only chisels and plane blades, nothing fancy like carving tools.) And what are recommended types and brands? There are so many water stones out there that I'm tempted to paste all the advertisements to a wall and throw a dart at them to choose.

I would seriously urge you not to start down that route at this time, until you have perfected your oil stone methods. It will be quite expensive, and will introduce a whole nother set of issues (the mess, as has been mentioned already in this thread, plus flattening, plus finding a place to sharpen where you have running water).

Advice, lectures, rants, and bickering all appreciated.[/QUOTE]

If you do decide to go the waterstone route, I would suggest you look into the Lee Valley natural stones. Natural stones are superior to the manmade stones. The best natural stones are in the stratosphere for cost (I'm not exaggerating), but you can get eminently usable natural stones for reasonable bucks. The natural stones don't go out of flat as quickly as the manmade, and give a better edge IME. Also, you can learn to use the whole stone, and minimize the flattening misery, though oil stones will still be superior in this regard.

Wiley

[Wiley Horne]

Bess,

The main thing I would suggest you do--and this'll change your life!--is to learn to hollow grind. That is the key to fast and effective sharpening, cause you're only sharpening the tip of the blade. This is not a new practice--Jos. Moxon's 'Mechanick Exercises' from just before the year 1700, contains a detailed discussion of hollow grinding.

I won't go into detail here, because you may or may not be interested, and it kinda depends on what equipment you already have. Use either a bench grinder, or else a belt sander.

Wiley

[Bess Kilmaren]

Certainly the flattening problem is one of the things making me hesitate before switching over; I sometimes sharpen two or three times during a work session if I'm doing something heavy-duty like chopping out mortises in dense wood (I'm also not really using the proper chisels for the job; but they're what I have right now), and adding that extra step is one more thing that takes me away from the wood. The mess is also a factor, as people below have mentioned -- I don't have a shop, living as I do in a one-bedroom apartment, and I do my woodworking on my dining room table and my sharpening on my coffee table. I honestly don't know where I would use a water stone. My kitchen sink?

[Bess Kilmaren]

I won't go into detail here, because you may or may not be interested, and it kinda depends on what equipment you already have. Use either a bench grinder, or else a belt sander.

Alas, I have neither! As mentioned above, I do everything in my tiny apartment, and power tools beyond my cordless drill are beyond my capability, both in terms of space and noise (and dust production). And hand grinders are nearly impossible to find in working order; nor, again, would I have the space for one.

[Johnny Kleso]

I use both, I use oil stones them a 5,000 and 8,000 on my own blades..

For planes I sell I use a Med. India, Fine India, Soft Ark, Trans. Ark and a Fine Ceramic


The more stones you use the less likely to belly your fine expensive stones..

[mike holden]

Bess,
Norton sells kits for sharpening, and they make them in both waterstone and oilstone.
The kit comes in what looks like a plastic toolbox which forms the sharpening area for using the stones. So for a small area, likely next to the sink, you will have a ready to use, easy to pack sharpening station.
This seems like the perfect thing for your situation. Google Norton and then follow the pages to the kits.
Mike

[Bess Kilmaren]

Having read a bit more about oil stones, I'm also pretty sure mine are of inferior quality -- not likely to make a difference on kitchen knives, but probably a hindrance to getting that electron-microscope-worthy edge on woodworking tools. They definitely do not measure up to smoothness and denseness as reported for ideal.

*sigh* Starting out is always such a hassle.

[Bess Kilmaren]

Oh, spectacular! I can't afford those kits right now, unfortunately, but they may well be the answer to my prayers (in the money-including future). Thank you!

(That is one difficult to navigate website, however.)

[Frank Drew]

Bess,

I use my waterstones at the kitchen sink; I have one of those plastic cork surfaced cafeteria trays from I don't know where and it work perfectly to keep the stone in place, is impervious to water and rinses clean. The only other place water stones aren't messy is outside and there's nothing wrong with that. But I think oil stones are usually messier than water stones and residual oil is much more of a problem if you get it on the wood you're working.

Like Mike, I use a 1000 and then a 5000. The Japanese carpenters I worked with used a cinder block and some sand to flatten the 1000, and the 1000 to flatten the finish stone. Worked for them so that's what I do.

[Jim Koepke]

I think all of the above are correct.

What works best for one person is not necessarily the best for another.

So if it works, don't fix it. If it isn't working, then investigate the alternatives.

I have oil and water stones and find the water stones are used more often.

Most of the time a blade that has been sharpened before will only need a touch up with the 4000 then the 8000 to get hair splitting sharp.

To contain the mess, my wife hauled me to a big box department store. We checked in kitchen, bath and automotive and found the cheapest rubber mat. The floor mats in automotive were on sale, so that sealed the deal. Also bought a plastic 5 quart container to keep the stones in. Don't leave something like this in a place where it might freeze.

The mat we bought has a ridge all around, so it contains the water. Some still occasionally gets on the bench.

My experience is water stones are more aggressive than oil stones. For production blade sharpening, this is a good thing.

For putting on a little water during use, a very small hole was drilled in the cap of a water bottle. A little squeeze and there is more water on the stone. Keep an old towel handy to wipe the blades. Before using the water bottle, one of my grandkids sippy cups did the trick. Others like to use an old spray bottle. What ever works.

The slow cutting of oil stones makes them my preference for finish sharpening of auger bits. Some things are better done slow and careful.

jim

[Jim Koepke]

My opinion is that the jump from 1000 to 8000 is too big a jump - you'll have to spend too much time on the 8000 taking out the scratches from the 1000. I would recommend a 1000 and a 5000.

Mike

I go from 800 to 4000 then 8000. Seems to work well. If another stone is bought though, a 1200 would fit in real nice.

jim

[Jim Powers]

Bess,
I used the oil stones for several years until I read a story on the "Scary Sharp" system. Now, I use only wet/dry sandpaper. For less than $20.00 at the automotive parts store. I started with a flat steel plate, 180, 220, 600, 800, & 1000 grit sheets. I added a 1500 grit for the last final touch. I also use a LV bevel set to guarantee the correct bevel. It works very well.

[Eddie Darby]

I guess it comes down to preference when it comes to sharpening systems. Water-stones allow for faster removal of metal, but require more frequent lapping. Oil-stones require less frequent flattening, but work slower.

If you get into the habit of frequently giving the water-stones a quick rub on say a diamond lap, all the time before use, then this drawback becomes an asset, in that you have a fresh clean aggressive abrasive to start your sharpening with, and a nice flat surface. You don't need to spend a lot of time, all at one time that is, flattening your water-stones if you use this approach.

The goal in getting something sharp is to have two flat planes intersecting at an infinite point. If whatever abrasive you are using isn't flat then you cannot achieve this goal.

If you want to have consistency in your sharpening, then not having the same starting point of a flat surfaced abrasive will hamper your goal. It would seem that frequent lapping of the abrasive is a good thing for consistency.

[Phillip Pattee]

Bess,
I found this article answered many of my questions about sharpening methods, maintenance, and technique. Perhaps you will find it helpful too. Like Jim, I went with scary sharp.;)

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00003.asp

[Wilbur Pan]

If you get into the habit of frequently giving the water-stones a quick rub on say a diamond lap, all the time before use, then this drawback becomes an asset, in that you have a fresh clean aggressive abrasive to start your sharpening with, and a nice flat surface. You don't need to spend a lot of time, all at one time that is, flattening your water-stones if you use this approach.

I've found that an even better thing to do is to flatten my waterstones after I'm done using them. That way, I know they are ready to go next time I use them. If you flatten your waterstone set starting with the highest grit and working downward, you don't have to worry about grit contamination.

But to get back to the original question, I'd agree that if you already know how to use oilstones, and more importantly, you are happy with using them, you don't need to reinvent the wheel. First thing to do is to sharpen one of your tools (chisel, plane blade -- it doesn't matter which), and see if you can take a clean endgrain shaving off of pine or construction lumber. If you can do this, your tools are sharp enough.

If you aren't getting this type of shaving, I'd add a high quality hard black Arkansas stone, and a strop/honing compound setup to what you have.

By the way, I love waterstones, so if I suggest that you stick with oilstones, I must really mean it. ;)

=====

If you really want to switch, here's the cheapest way to get good results with waterstones that I can come up with:

DMT coarse diamond stone, for flattening waterstones and dealing with nicks/initial flattening. - $55 (multiple places, often you can find a sale)

King 1000 grit stone - $23 (www.hidatool.com)

Natural aoto stone (like a 3000 grit stone) - $55 (www.hidatool.com)

Lee Valley natural finishing waterstone - $45 (close out special (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=47299&cat=1,43072))

Or you could get the 1000/5000/8000 grit Naniwa stone set instead of the above 3 stones for $130. (www.toolsforworkingwood.com)

Total: $180-185

To echo Wiley's post above, the Lee Valley natural finishing stone closeout is a really great deal. I have an 8000 grit Shapton stone, and I like the edge that the natural stone gives me better.

[Richard DiCerb]

I have found myself sharpening my planer and joiner knives , router bits, shaper cutters and basically anything including a little diamone hone to keep my razor knives sharp. They are getting so cheap to buy now I can't see why they are not a consideration accept for maybe your rounded lathe gouges might be a little awkward . Thanks RJ
RJMETALWOODS.COM

[John Thompson]

I used Arkansas stones from the early 70's through the late 80's.. then water-stones from the late 80's until about 2004.. made the transition to scary sharp with sand-paper and doubt I will ever use anything else.

All get the job done.. but I personally find the scary sharp quicker.. less trouble-some and create less mess to clean up.

Sarge..

[Bess Kilmaren]

Jim and Phillip and John -- I've been curious about the Scary Sharp system for a while. It certainly seems simpler than everything else, and more customizable as well. But I did some searching on this forum and it seems people have trouble with the sandpaper wearing through so quickly that it becomes prohibitively expensive. Have any of you had this problem? Which sandpapers do you use, as I would assume that would contribute significantly to the wearing out/expense?

[Bess Kilmaren]

Oh, thanks. That's very informative if I do decide to make the switch to water stones.

[Wilbur Pan]

But I did some searching on this forum and it seems people have trouble with the sandpaper wearing through so quickly that it becomes prohibitively expensive. Have any of you had this problem?

Yes. Scary Sharp is how I first learned, and you can get excellent results with it. But the running cost of sandpaper was one of the reasons I got into waterstones instead.

I also found that the water I used with Scary Sharp made more of a mess than waterstones. After building one of these for waterstones, the mess is really minimal.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2173/2212962869_397978f95b.jpg

[Bob Smalser]

Those who say oil stones are slower apparently don't have coarse and medium carborundum and India stones in their inventory to true up rough edges before moving to the novaculite stones.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/17020258/272093964.jpg

But anyway....if you're still tied down to jigs you're wasting time far beyond any difference in stone type. Take the time necessary to master freehand honing and you'll be able to sharpen anything, anywhere and at any time in a small fraction of the time you'll spend fussing with jigs and Tormeks.

Basic Sharpening
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=12747

[John Thompson]

I purchase adhesive backed heavy-weight rolls (10 yards or 30' I believe) from Klingspors, Miss Bess. I keep a roll of 80.. 150.. 320.. 600.. 1200.. 2000 grits on hand. You could just get auto grade from a body shop supplier local and use spray adhesive. I use odorless mineral spirits as the lube from 320 up and I purchased a piece of tempered plate 12" x 32" I believe.

So.. initial start up is somewhat expensive.. but much less than a set of water-stones IMO. I will buy extra heavy paper backing on the 80 and 150 grit.. heavy-wieght on anything up. About $60-75 plus you need a plate to sharpen on.

Once you flatten the backs on all chisels and irons.. it really doesn't take much paper at that point. And like Bob Smalser mentioned.. I don't bother with a jig. After 36 years I suppose I have developed a feel. I cut 96 dove-tails by hand about a month ago for drawers with a 1/4" & 3/8" Marples blue beaters I purchased around 1975. Took about 10 minutes to re-coup them afterwards and very little paper. I do strop with green compoung and leather quite often in a similar scenario as that.

I was given a cheap #7 jointer a week ago and did use almost an entire roll of 80 grit on that 22" long sole to get the machine marks out and flatten the sole (around 4-5 hour as it was a challenge)... but once you do the 150-320-etc. is same procedure and takes very little.

And frankly I don't spend a great amount of time shooting for ultra perfection.. I sharpen them to a wire edge and take it off with stropping with green compound and a leather strop. I believe sharp is sharp as I was taught early and beyond that is wasting time you could be on a project. It works for me and has for a long time.

Regards...

Sarge..

[Steve Schoene]

Hi Bess,


Here is an excellent article on sharpening published on Joel's website:

http://www.antiquetools.com/sharp/

I would suggest you read the article, then either email or call Joel directly to discuss your own sharpening experience.

Wiley

I'll strongly second the recommendation to look at the link Wiley provided. I had the great good fortune to learn sharpening from Maurice Fraser, the author of that piece. It was the lesson for the first meeting of his Traditional Woodworking Class offered by the Craft Student League at the 52nd. Street YWCA in NYC. The second day in this class, which included absolute beginners, was devoted to cutting dovetails.

But whether you use waterstones or oil stones is a matter of preference, not a matter of "better" or "worse". You can achieve the absolutely same keenness of edge using either.

[George Beck]

Bess

Many years ago I attended a Japanese workshop. I went fully expecting Zen woodworking and sharpening performed by blind monks on natural water stones mined from sacred and ancient mountains and dedicated to the pursuit of the perfect edge. The stage was set and a very old man sat on the ground holding the work with his feet and wearing a kanji etched headband like a scene from the karate kid. Then suddenly he reached for a sharpening stone. He examined it and decided it needed flattening. To my astonishment he grabbed a concrete cinder block that was part of a make shift work bench, doused it with a cup of water and scrubbed the water stone across it. He smiled and made the comment "whatever works, works". I had an euphony. I have used just about every jig and sharpening contraption out there because a truly sharp edge is the goal. I have been able to achieve flatness and sharpness with sandpaper, oil stones, diamond stones and water stones. I am currently using Shapton stones for two basic reasons. 1)They cut quickly and thus cutting the time spent on each grit and 2) They are easy to keep flat which is critical. What works,works!

[Eric Wong]

It may or may not be better. The skill of the sharpener has a lot to do with it.

That being said, the best sharpening system is the one that you will use. As we all know, dull tools are more dangerous that sharp ones.

[Phillip Pattee]

Bess,
I really don't do much different from what Mike Dunbar describes in the article I linked. I don't use one long piece of glass but have several plates that were once glass cutting boards (by the way glass is a terrible cutting board--don't use them for this). I put regular automotive sandpaper on them using a can of spray adhesive. I use a brush to keep the paper from clogging. I have found that I can use a paper to sharpen many times before most of it is worn out. It can still be messy. You have to take care the direction you are pointing the adhesive spray when you spray down your glass plate. Mine are small enough that I can hold the plate in one hand and spray can in the other. When you stick the paper down, you should take care to get it free of bubbles and seems so that it is smooth. After a blade has gone back and forth over the sand paper you brush the paper off to get the grit out. This is a fine, dark residue, so I wouldn't do this in the living room or kitchen as that stuff would get everywhere. I do my sharpening and most work in the garage.

I think I paid about $10 for the glass plates, less than $5 for spray adhesive, and sandpaper comes in packages of various grits available from just about any automotive parts store. It hasn't broken the bank. I think if you buy PSA paper that someone has tried to package specifically as for a scary sharp set up, then you will pay more for it. It simply isn't necessary though.

[Hank Knight]

Bess,

I'm late to the party, as usual, but I'll give you my $.02.

You can get good results with any of the sharpening systems that have been discussed. Wiley suggested that you stick with your oil stones and avoid the expense involved in trying other systems. Generally, I agree except for the fact that I believe there is a subjective component that is important here. Your question about whether water stones are the "best" sharpening method has brought a host of responses from others arguing forcefully that their method, whatever it is, is the "best," and it probably is for them. But it's hard to get to the point where you're satisfied with your sharpening system without having tried others. Almost everybody that replied described what it is about their favorite system that is "better" than other systems. The preferences have to do with the messyness of water stones, the expense of sandpaper, the yuk of having oil all over everything, and such; very few said they get a better edge with their system.

If you can accept Wiley's recommendation to stick with your oil stones and perfect your technique with them, you will indeed have a perfectly good system that produces a qulality edge. The trick is to ignore everybody else's comments that their system is "better." I couldn't do it. I've spent a small fortune on sharpening stuff, and I get pretty good edges. I have a bench grinder and a Tormek; and I use oil stones, diamonds and water stones interrchangeably, depending on how I feel at the time. I don't know that I have a favorite - except that I don't like sandpaper; for no particular reason, I just don't like it, even though I got good edges with it.

If you can accept, intellectually, that your oil stones are just as good as other systems, save your money. If you are going to be haunted by others whose systems are "better," pick one and dive in. Try them all. You may well find something you like better than your oil stones, but I doubt you'll get a better edge with any of the others. Read this post again in a couple of years and let me know what you think.

Hank

P.S.,

I absolutely agree with Bob Smalser's recommendation that you learn to sharpen free hand. Nothing speeds up the process more. Not having to fiddle with a jig means that you will go to your bench stone much more frequently to touch up your edge while you work. This in turn means that your edges will be more consistently sharp while you work.

[Don C Peterson]

Hank,

Interesting observations... I'll speak for myself here and say that I developed my preferences based on how I like to work with some pre-wired biases thrown in.

I can't make a real distinction in the quality of the edges I got when using Shapton or King waterstones and now that I'm using natural oil stones and a strop, either method produces a very usable edge. I do know that I hated the idea of flattening waterstones, it just felt very wasteful, the same goes for using abrasive sheet goods. Conversely, I liked the idea of using a stone that would rarely, if ever, require flattening and would, with care, outlive me. I liked the idea enough to try it and the results were good enough that I have continued to use it.

I too agree with the suggestion to learn to sharpen freehand with one caveat. Jigs and guides are very helpful when establishing or changing the basic geometry of a tool, but once that is done, the basic honing and maintanance can be done much easier without the fuss and bother of jigs.

[Hank Knight]

[QUOTE=Don C Peterson;865076]Hank,
I too agree with the suggestion to learn to sharpen freehand with one caveat. Jigs and guides are very helpful when establishing or changing the basic geometry of a tool, but once that is done, the basic honing and maintanance can be done much easier without the fuss and bother of jigs. /QUOTE]

Don,

I probably overstated my objection to jigs. I use them too for redefining the geometry of an edge and sometimes for reestablishing a bevel. As you said, once this task is done, the jig goes into the drawer and doesn't come out again unless there is more heavy work to be done.

Hank

[Mike Henderson]

[quote=Don C Peterson;865076]Hank,
I too agree with the suggestion to learn to sharpen freehand with one caveat. Jigs and guides are very helpful when establishing or changing the basic geometry of a tool, but once that is done, the basic honing and maintanance can be done much easier without the fuss and bother of jigs. /QUOTE]

Don,

I probably overstated my objection to jigs. I use them too for redefining the geometry of an edge and sometimes for reestablishing a bevel. As you said, once this task is done, the jig goes into the drawer and doesn't come out again unless ther is more heavy work to be done.

Hank
I agree. I use a jig to establish the bevel. It's impossible to produce a flat bevel "by hand" - the bevel will always be rounded because you can't hold the chisel or plane blade exactly and consistently in the proper position as you stroke it across the stone.

But once I establish the bevel, I do my "during work" honing by hand.

Mike

[Bess Kilmaren]

I have definitely decided to stick with my oil stones for now, although I have added a leather strop and that strange green Veritas honing compound to my latest LV order. Possibly in the future when I no longer feel the need to spend my money on planes (will that day ever come?) I will dive into a new sharpening technique.

And I already do sharpen free hand! Possibly not very well, but I'm practicing.

[Wiley Horne]

Hi All,

Just like to add one other thing, especially since Bess is going to stick with oil stones for now. This is a quote from Larry Williams on the same matters we've been discussing here. Larry gets great edges from oil stones. The quote is from a month ago, or so:

Larry Williams said: "...I use three stones in sharpening. A medium India, a Translucent Hard Arkansas and a coarse diamond stone that's only used to maintain the other two. The two oil stones, contrary to what people say, do wear but they also get dull. Very briefly using the coarse diamond stone on both oil stones before each sharpening keeps the oil stones flat and fast cutting. First dress the fine hard Arkansas then the coarser India stone. Leave the resulting slurry on the stones, it only makes them cut faster. I also use a leather strop to remove the final wire edge."

The main reason I bring this back is because Larry touched on a really important matter, which received little attention at the time. And that is 'how do you keep your oil stones cutting?' Water stones will glaze over and get dull also, but since you're always having to flatten them, they get refreshed in the bargain, and are always presenting new cutting crystals.

Oil stones get out of flat much more subtly, so it's easy to just kinda live with them, even as they get dull. I think Larry's suggestion of the coarse diamond stone to maintain oil stones--flatten them and restore their cutting performance--might make a difference for Bess. In addition, the coarse diamond stone is good for back flattening and fits well into all blade maintenance schemes, so it's money well spent in any case.

Great discussion.

Wiley

[Jim Powers]

Hi Bess,
I can't say that the cost of sandpaper is prohibitive. I have the same grouping of paper for at least six to ten months. You do have to be careful with the edge and the force you use across the paper. Using the honing guide, it becomes a trade off into how much pressure you use. Reading all the posts, one may decide that stones are the better fit, but for me it keeps my plane blades and chisels sharp. I am a hobbyist at best. Good luck!
Jim

[Mark Singer]

There is a lot of discussion about sharpening...its really about what you do with the edge once you have it. I think if you find a technique that works stick with it. I like waterstones. I like to sharpen quickly so I can do it often if necessary, but I bring a few chisels and planes to the bench so I can keep going....I hate to stop!

[Phillip Pattee]

Possibly in the future when I no longer feel the need to spend my money on planes (will that day ever come?)

No, it will not!:p