PM 209HH Rippled Results

[Johnny Fischer]

My PM 209HH is producing a rippled effect on my lumber.
The unit is 1 yr old & has only been used on 200BF of lumber to date.
I had the local machinery tech come out the first time it was used & he went through the entire machine to make sure everything was properly aligned, etc.
2 days ago I began planing some hard maple & low & behold the dasng thing was still doing its ripple thing to my lumber.
I tried elevating (pitching) the in feed & out feed tables w/ no luck of the issue.
I called PM & was told to clean all surfaces & lubricate the tables w/ Boeshield T9 or something of equal comparison. Did that & still no luck of resolving the issue.:mad: grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Does anybody have a clue what might be causing this & what would the remedy be?
Imput would be deeply appreciated.
Thank you

[Brian Weick]

Just a guess but it sounds like it has to do with the helical head cutter, possibly the bits ~ what other way could could it be? Have you checked the helical head cutters ~ are they properly seated, or you may have some damaged cutters that are leaving that area a little under planed than the rest? the other thing is ~ are you getting roller marks from the feeder wheel, or is it a planing problem
Brian

[Johnny Fischer]

Hey Brian,
The tech & I both double checked the cutters & the rollers are set @ .005., what PM recommends.
I'm clueless.

[Brian Weick]

can you submit a picture of what it looks like, the maple that is being left with the ripple effect. Do you have some pine laying around, just for an experiment ~ throw a piece through the planer ( a short board) , if you see no ripple, throw a long board in, if you see a ripple , now it has something to do with either the out feed or the in feed table. If you don't have any marks , go with some short hard maple and go through the same process~ now if you don't have any problems then it has something to do with your height adjustment , maybe the lock down possibly? The best way to narrow the problem down is by checking the feed lengths (issue,no issue) or the height adjustments (issue/no issue) just narrow it down.
Brian

[Frank Snyder]

I have a 209 with a Byrd head. If I had to venture a guess, I would say that your cutterheads are dull. Have you tried rotating your cutterheads?

[Brian Weick]

Yea,
I keep thinking it has something to do with the cutters as well ~ leaving areas on the board not well planed and some areas that are ~ that would leave a ripple for sure.
Brian

[Johnny Fischer]

Will try your suggestions Brian.
Will also take pics later & post results.
For now, going fishing. :D
In reference to the cutters being dull, I've only ran 200BF through the machine since it was uncrated.

PS. The maple I'm milling is approx. 8" x 96".

[Brian Weick]

You catch any thing worth while ~ take some pics, I have to get out to the lake as well and throw my line out there, along with some tools I hate~:eek:
I would still check the cutters John, who knows, you ma have hit something , anything can happen, I'll check this thread to see how your doing, go have some fun instead of frustration~ you have the right idea.
Brian

[Joe Jensen]

Is this even scalloping all over the board, or snipe at the ends? The way I read you post, you are talking about scalloping. I don't think there are any bed adjustments or roller adjustments that would impact this. I think you are really only looking at something with the cutterhead. I read on one of the forums that scalloping can be due to a cutter not properly seated into the cutterhead. Has the planer always scalloped? I have a Byrd in my 12" Powermatic and I have very minor scaloping that is visible when I hold the board at the right angle to a light source. I expected this as many talked about it on the web when I was researching my purchase. I just put a Byrd in my Jointer and I was very surprised that there was no scalloping at all, zero. I am wondering if the cutterhead diameter makes a difference?

[Bruce Page]

Probably a stupid question but have you played with the feed rates, does changing them make a difference?

[Johnny Fischer]

The scalloping is from the beginning of the board to the end.
Yes, we have changed gears for slower feed rate.
It has my tech & PM scratching our heads & nobody seems to know why its doing this.
Is there any way the bearing(s) for the cutter head could be bad & as a result the head is possibly bouncing during operation?

[Sean Kinn]

Edit..oops, I was tired and didn't read above. Joe already asked the same questions.

[Johnny Fischer]

Just spent 4 hr.'s going through the entire machine w/ a dial indicator making sure everything was set properly, not to mention everything was cleaned & lubed. (whether it needed it or not)
My chatter problem still exist. :mad:
Somebody please shoot me, this is driving me nuts.

[Brian Weick]

1st off - did you catch anything and second- did you try my recomendation. Somthing is obviously not working correctly.
Brian

[Johnny Fischer]

1st off - did you catch anything and second- did you try my recomendation. Somthing is obviously not working correctly.
Brian

No we didn't catch anything, just a sun burn. Too hot I guess.
And yes I did try short stock compared to long stock after I recalibrated EVERYTHING.

[Brian Weick]

Is the feed going through the planer smoothly, or is it stuttering or is there a slight jerking motion, if thats not happening ~ the only thing I can think of is the bits are the culprit and need to be either sharpened , replaced or just rotated ~ my 2 cents:confused:
Brian

[Johnny Fischer]

Is the feed going through the planer smoothly, or is it stuttering or is there a slight jerking motion, if thats not happening ~ the only thing I can think of is the bits are the culprit and need to be either sharpened , replaced or just rotated ~ my 2 cents:confused:
Brian

Brian,
I haven't turned the cutter bits as of yet but did inspect them & they feel pretty sharp to me.
As stated before I have only ran 200BF through the unit since it was uncrated.
Would the cutters be dull that quick to the point of it causing this issue?

[Brian Weick]

It has something to do with those bits in my opinion,this problem just occurred after you planed that 200bf I take it, so ~ there has to be something going on with the bits to be causing this,apparently this is a common problem with the helical cutters.
i was going to get one but the +/- did not do it for me. I have few associates that some swear by them and some swear at them ~ I would really dive into inspecting the cutters ~ do you have a picture of what your results are on the wood~ that may help us out a lot more, sometimes words don't "cut it" no pun intended buddy~ I really hope you solve your problem, it's frustrating when you check everything and nothing seems to be wrong, but sometimes the things we think we checked , have been overlooked and a small problem, which I hope is your case ~ see if you can't get the pictures up on this thread :)~
Brian

[Johnny Fischer]

Pic's of problem
Hope they help

[Brian Hale]

Kinda looks like curly maple... :rolleyes:

The rippling seems more pronounced at the outter edges. Is the bottom surface of the board flat and smooth?

Brian :)

[Brian Weick]

have you tried planing them a little further , 1/64th cut to see if the problem is lessened?
Brian

[Tom Veatch]

Closely spaced ripples/scallops is the same effect I see on my jointer (straight blades - no helical head) when a) one of the blades is slightly too high and b) high feed rate. Under those conditions, the slower the feed, the closer spaced the ripples and vice versa.

No experience with helical heads, but if something is causing one or more of the cutter rows to take a little deeper bite than the others, you should see a difference in the ripple spacing if you change the feed rate.

Edit: I'd also think that if it were cutter alignment/depth that was the root of the problem, a spiral head cutter would yield scallops that are at a small angle off perpendicular to the feed direction - again, the angle would vary with feed rate.

[Johnny Fischer]

To answer all of the above questions.
Yes the bottom of the boards shown are flat & smooth, or at least they were until I ran them through the PM 209. Chattered now.
I started originally planing them on my DW 735 which planes very nicely but 1 board at a time.
Very time consuming since I have 27 boards to do from rough.
I have the feed rate set at the lowest it will go - 16FPM.
I ran a 8" x 96" board through & then another board @ 8" x 48" multiple times & ended up w/ the same results.
Snipe was very minimal but chatter still there.
At this point would pitching my out & infeed tables help any?
I know on my DW735 you have to do this get rid of snipe issues.

[J.R. Rutter]

I have a Shelix head in a 12" jointer and 24" planer. When I get scalloping across a board, it is due to a non-flat bottom surface causing vibration as it goes under the cutterhead. Another possible cause of vibration is uneven pressure across the chipbreaker or pressure bar, either from the design of the spring or the flatness of these 2 parts. If the outer edges of the board can flutter at all due to more pressure on the middle, then you might get ripple chatter marks. Have you adjusted the bed rollers at all? You might fasten a temporary bed of MDF over the planer bed and see if that gets rid of the chatter.

There will always be some minor lines running the length of the board, but bigger diameter heads minimize this. They also get better if you clean the inserts and seats thoroughly on first rotation. Factory gunk can cause some percentage of the inserts to ride a tiny bit higher.

Hope you can work this out. The shelix head might not give a super-finished surface like sharp straight knives, but I love it for longevity, low noise, and minimal tearout on tough grained woods.

[Joe Jensen]

I have a Shelix head in a 12" jointer and 24" planer. When I get scalloping across a board, it is due to a non-flat bottom surface causing vibration as it goes under the cutterhead. Another possible cause of vibration is uneven pressure across the chipbreaker or pressure bar, either from the design of the spring or the flatness of these 2 parts. If the outer edges of the board can flutter at all due to more pressure on the middle, then you might get ripple chatter marks. Have you adjusted the bed rollers at all? You might fasten a temporary bed of MDF over the planer bed and see if that gets rid of the chatter.

There will always be some minor lines running the length of the board, but bigger diameter heads minimize this. They also get better if you clean the inserts and seats thoroughly on first rotation. Factory gunk can cause some percentage of the inserts to ride a tiny bit higher.

Hope you can work this out. The shelix head might not give a super-finished surface like sharp straight knives, but I love it for longevity, low noise, and minimal tearout on tough grained woods.

I have Shelix on both my planer and jointer. I my experience it's either cutters that are not well seated (apparently from the factor), or the issue JR identified here. I am betting on the cutters. My planer does this to a VERY minor extent, the jointer has none...joe

[Brian Weick]

Nevermind? I wasn't reading the whole thread ~ ANY SOLUTION YET JOHN!

Brian

[Randy Klein]

Is the infeed roller serrated or rubber coated? I ask, since the Dewalt is rubber coated and most heavier duty ones are not. When taking a light pass the infeed rollers impress that look deeper than the knives can remove it.

If the above is true, try taking another pass but hog more off. I find that you have to leave enough wood left for the last pass or you get this.

[Johnny Fischer]

The infeed roller is semented. To answer the last ?
I have called PM repeatedly & ater much discussion we are coming to the conclusion that my planer may very well have a bad bearing holding the cutter head.
They are having a company tech contact me so he can come & inspect every inch of the machine & find out what is wrong.
They are baffled just as much as we are.
Will post final comments/results once this happens.
Hey, if worse comes to worse, I get a new machine.:D
Theres always a gold lining if we be patient & just look for it.

[Tom Cowie]

Is the infeed roller serrated or rubber coated? I ask, since the Dewalt is rubber coated and most heavier duty ones are not. When taking a light pass the infeed rollers impress that look deeper than the knives can remove it.

If the above is true, try taking another pass but hog more off. I find that you have to leave enough wood left for the last pass or you get this.


Ditto to what Randy is saying. I've notice these scallops when I try to take too little off the last pass. It still is nothing to remove with the drum sander or ros.
Tom

[Jake Helmboldt]

The infeed roller is semented. To answer the last ?
I have called PM repeatedly & ater much discussion we are coming to the conclusion that my planer may very well have a bad bearing holding the cutter head.
They are having a company tech contact me so he can come & inspect every inch of the machine & find out what is wrong.
They are baffled just as much as we are.
Will post final comments/results once this happens.
Hey, if worse comes to worse, I get a new machine.:D
Theres always a gold lining if we be patient & just look for it.

Something along those lines were my thoughts. Either a bad bearing or a cutterhead that is radially out of round or non-concentric.

[Jim Eller]

Randy has a good point.

My 209HH will leave marks if you try to take a very fine cut. They are left by the infeed roller.

Jim

[Steve Nouis]

I have a Shelix head in a 12" jointer and 24" planer. When I get scalloping across a board, it is due to a non-flat bottom surface causing vibration as it goes under the cutterhead. Another possible cause of vibration is uneven pressure across the chipbreaker or pressure bar, either from the design of the spring or the flatness of these 2 parts. If the outer edges of the board can flutter at all due to more pressure on the middle, then you might get ripple chatter marks. Have you adjusted the bed rollers at all? You might fasten a temporary bed of MDF over the planer bed and see if that gets rid of the chatter.

There will always be some minor lines running the length of the board, but bigger diameter heads minimize this. They also get better if you clean the inserts and seats thoroughly on first rotation. Factory gunk can cause some percentage of the inserts to ride a tiny bit higher.

Hope you can work this out. The shelix head might not give a super-finished surface like sharp straight knives, but I love it for longevity, low noise, and minimal tearout on tough grained woods.
Good advice, I'd try the mfd bed first, then check the feed and out roller down pressure and the gearbox mounting bolts for tightness. I just got a 209 which I put a byrd head in, lots of bolts were not tight as they should be. Haven't run it yet, hope it does better than that. Steve

[Steve Nouis]

Johnny... Any luck getting your planer working good? I got mine up and running, it leaves and nice finish. On the first pass through on a board that was sawed rough it was a little rippled, I would think from it rolling over the bottom rollers would cause it to rise and fall some. I might get a sheet of hard plactic for the bed like my other planer has which would elimate that 100%. Steve