Help! Which Saw?? 1.Old Uni 2.New Grizz 3.Late PM66

[Brian Smith3]

I know that there is a lot of information about table saws on this board, but I need some help on a decision. I WILL be dropping off my saw on Saturday that's certain. I honestly have NO clue which saw to get. I want something that is suitable for my garage (50 amp box in the garage; 100 amp total to the house), is accurate, comes up to speed quickly, and is easy to work on (easy to get parts etc). I'm NOT going to spend $2k for a 200 amp panel upgrade for a $1500 TS. I have a bandsaw, planer, jointer, drill press, all 110. No DC yet, will probably do some sort of a 1hp chipbox to the outside.

I had a Unisaw that I used at a shop space I built at my warehouse. It was a 3phase 460v 5hp saw I think model was a 36-R53L. I'm trading it because my wife wants me at home more, so I'm building a shop in my garage. I really don't need a 5hp machine anyway I just got a great deal on it ($900) from my guy that rebuilds machines.

Anyway this is a straight across trade. I give my saw to my rebuild guy and he gives me the saw of my choosing back. No money, just one saw for the other.

I am considering 2 machines, and there's an outside possibility for a third.

1) An old 1955 Unisaw that he restored and repainted. It has a bullet motor and a cast iron "egg" motor cover (these two things are supposed to be important). He is very proud of this restore. 1.5hp 3 phase with a static converter. 52" Delta Unifence. I LOVE the unifence for some reason, my favorite fence system of all. It's been restored and is VERY clean, cleaner than saw #2 which is...

2) A Grizzly 1023. It's a year old and in good condition. Otherwise nothing special, 3hp motor, Bies clone 52" fence. Bies is the only other fence that I have used. They're good, but I like the Uni better. Will this pull too much power?

3) Finally I could do a PM66 3hp 52" PM/Bies fence. My guy said the Baldor motors are by far and away the best in the industry (almost overkill), but some maintenance things are harder to do on the PM, though I doubt I would have to work on it too much. Left right tilt is irrelevent to me. BUT I would have to wait a couple of months for it to be available which is really going to hurt a kitchen cabinet project timeline for my wife, so it better be markedly better. It will be painful if I have to explain the delay. Also again I'm a bit worried about the power draw.

I don't know that much about the old Uni's. A friend of mine said to use a thin kerf with the bullet motor as it's lower power. All I know about the Grizz is that it's a good saw at a good price point. Great reputation for service and repairs. I'm leaning toward the Uni because I like the fence and I think it would be pretty easy to get parts and work on, and power is not the #1 thing for me but then again I don't earn a living with these things. Thanks for reading!!

Which one would you do?? 1) Old Uni, 2) Newish Grizzly, or 3)PM66??

[Jim O'Dell]

WOW! That's a tough one. All three would be good saws.

Let me preface this with I don't have any personal hands on knowledge with any of these saws. This is based on what I have read on the forums.

The Uni would be a collectors item as well as a good saw from what I hear...better than the newer ones. Griz is what I will probably end up with purely from the fact that used saws here are advertised for over the price of the new Griz. And most are 3 phase without the converter.
But the PM would probably get my nod. It is as stout of a saw as there is, especially if it is 10 years old, give or take. The Baldor motor should last a lifetime or 2 or 3. It should pull about 14 amps on 220, so shouldn't cause a problem. You might verify that on the PM website for that saw with that motor. After that, the Uni, then the Griz.
You could always ask your friend if he'd mind swapping the Unifence for the Biese, especially if you did the swapping or helped him do it. The Biese is a more expensive fence, retail to retail, so shouldn't be a big deal for him, resale wise.
I'm anxious to see what others "in the know" have to say about this. Good luck with your decision! Jim.

[Alan Trout]

Just looking at it from your perspective I would probably go with saw number 1. The reason is that you have a time frame to consider. You like the unifence. and old Uni's are cool. The one kicker is that it has a stat-o-phase converter. I would rather have a rotary phase converter or a AC inverter. Stat-o-phase units only give about 75% of rated horsepower. I would build a rotary phase converter or buy a AC inverter if this was the saw I chose. Or you could put a newer Leeson or Baldor motor on it.

Good Luck

Alan

[Joe Jensen]

Having owned a Unisaw and a PM66, I would chose the PM66, but I prefer left tilt and the Bies fence. Since you prefer the Unifence, and the 1955 saw is super cool, I think you should go that way...joe

[Tim Morton]

PM66 not even a close second in the race:D

[Rob Will]

Brian,

Personally, I would go for the left tilt 66 - especially if it is single phase and made in the USA.

The Uni is a classic that you will always be proud of. If you really prefer the Unifence over a Beis and can deal with the 3-phase motor, why not.

The Grizzly is currently worth about $200 per ton and is getting more valuable every day. ;)

While you are setting up a new TS, have you thought about adding a larger / more stable miter gauge? FWIW, I like the Osborne EB-3.

Rob

[David DeCristoforo]

No brainer... Go with the uni.... I will say no more.....

[Dave MacArthur]

PM66.
I look at old saws every day on CL, and the PM66 always draws 3-$500 more than unisaw used. I've used both in a shop that wasn't mine (own a 66), and they're both good. Actually all 3 are good.

From your description, you might not be able to wait for the 66 though, in which case it sounds like you'd like the unisaw. Power for all 3 would be fine, 15A or so for 3HP @220v

[Robert Payne]

I've had a Grizzly G1023SLX (with the same ShopFox Bies clone fence as you are contemplating, I believe) for 4 years and it is a good solid saw. It is on a 20Amp 230V circuit and has never popped the breaker. It has stayed in tune very well and can handle the toughest stock -- I've ripped plenty of 8/4 White Oak on it using a Forrest WWII full kerf blade. Fence stays true as well and I like the left tilt. Given the need you express to work sooner than later, it would be my choice over the PM.

[Chris Rosenberger]

I beileve that the Unisaw will be under powered with a 1 1/2 hp motor & static converter. If you are looking for a collectors item go with the Unisaw. If you want a saw to work with go with the Grizzly or PM 66. I would go with the PM66 with the price being equal for all 3. You can put a Unifence on a PM66.

[John Thompson]

First of all.. all three are good saws with two being great saws. The early Uni-saw you mentioned has "your" fence but 1 1/2 HP would not carry the burden I ask of a saw as I rip a lot of thick stock.

So.. with those thougtht in mind I would go for the PM 66 which is a proven work-horse. I see your point about the Uni-fence as I have a Biese on mine. But.. I simply use a short fence clamped to the face of the Biese to accomplish the same thing that the Uni-fence does basically.

Good luck with whatever you do as you really can't lose in this case with a decision on any of them really...

Sarge..

[Jeff Duncan]

Go with either the Uni or the Grizzly and let me know where I can pick up the 66'.

JeffD
owner of a 54' Uni

[Curt Harms]

I have a Griz 1023 with Mule fence. It does everything I ask of it without a whimper. If I had the opportunity to trade even-up for a U.S. made PM66, it'd be so long Griz, I'm afraid. Owning the Uni might be a little like owning a classic car, of more interest to a collector than for use as a daily "driver," though the Uni can certainly be used.

Just my take on it.

Curt

[Jesse Cloud]

I was all ready to reply "Duh - old Uni" until I saw the 1.5 HP. If you are doing serious work, that would probably need an upgrade.

[Ben Cadotte]

Absolutely the PM66!! The 1.5 hp Unisaw on a static inverter will dissapoint you! It may be a good machine when connected to propper electric. But on a static inverter I would shy away. I would always choose a good used PM66 over a newer Griz. Nothing against Griz, my next saw will most likely be comming from them. If I had a choice though. The PM66 would be the one.

[Brian Smith3]

Thanks everyone for the comments, they are VERY helpful. Previously I have always just gotten whatever model Unisaw is out and left it at that. Now it's more complicated. :o

Still I go for about an hour convinced on one saw and then the next hour I'm convinced on the other. The Uni is basically brand new, every bearing replaced motor rebuilt and everything painted, the Grizz is barely used, in almost new condition more power, the PM66 is currently in a production environment so I have a feeling that it's going to show the most wear. But really do these things wear out? I'm going to check the PM66 out today on your guys' advice. BUT the PM66 will push my kitchen back to Feb '09 really as I wouldn't get it until late August, and I can't have a destroyed kitchen into the holidays and the busiest part of the year for me at work (Xmas production). Explaining that when "There are TWO other perfectly good saws you can choose." is gonna hurt.

I will post pictures of whatever I pick up on Sunday (I'll take pictures of the PM66 today). My Uni is now broken down on pallets and will be loaded this afternoon for delivery tomorrow. I'm now without a TS for the first time in a long time. :eek:

Thanks again everyone!!

[Ben Cadotte]

If its a choice between the old uni or griz now (can't wait for pm66) I would go with the Griz. Again based soley on the performance of the 1.5hp motor on a static inverter. Even though you believe the 5hp was over kill. You will be going off the other end of the spectrum with basically just a 1hp motor.

[Jeff Duncan]

If you can't wait for the 66 get the Uni. Admittedly it would be better with a single phase motor, (maybe you could swap for the motor you currently have?) but I wouldn't worry about the power. I used my 54' for many years before the 1 hp original motor gave out, then I replaced it with a 2 hp Leeson. This is a saw that gets used daily in a professional shop and I haven't ever had a problem with too little power. People make too much of bigger motors on tablesaws IMHO, if everything is well tuned, the blade is good quality and sharp you'll be fine.

good luck,
JeffD

[mike wacker]

I may love my 66 almost as much as my wife. Not really but you get the point.

[J. Z. Guest]

I've been in these types of situations before.

You've got an emotional reason for wanting the old Uni. Despite the fact that the other saws offer more on paper for the money, you are leaning toward the Uni.

The fact is that any of these saws will work for you. Never mind the horsepower. Get the one that will make you smile every time you look at it. The construction is probably better on the Uni than either of the others, simply because they took the time to build them better in the old days.

The Uni will do the job and has more character, and there should be no modifications necessary to your garage. Assuming the fence locks parallel every time.

These old Unis are getting more and more rare. I guess 66's are too, but not as rare as the old Unis.

Overall, we're way too concerned about specs. In this case, it is more important to get something you want than it is to buy more power than you'll likely need.

Grizzlies will always be available. No rush to get one of those. Build quality will not be the same caliber as the PM or Delta.

[Brian Smith3]

OK it's done, and the winner is......
Powermatic 66.

But what a weekend. I got my saw guy to agree to let the production shop end its lease on their saw (about two months) with the Grizzly 1023 and then let pick up the Powermatic. He agreed (though I had to give him my spot on a 3 day tuna fishing trip) and the shop could have cared less so I ended up taking the Grizz and setting it up in the shop and then taking the PM66 from the shop directly. That was a lot of work and driving and coordinating!

A very big THANK YOU to everyone that helped me think about this project. I hadn't really considered the 66 before I posted and now I have it, so obviously you guys had an impact.

Prologue
For those who may search the archives and want to know my thought process for the PM66, here's the long of it, for the rest of you there won't be really any new information about a decision.

Ultimately it came to the power for two reasons. First the 3 phase to single phase conversion, and secondly the amount of power with the Uni. Now of course these are both linked, but in my circumstance I need to be able to get the saw up and running in a new (in terms of a shop) place for me. I haven't done any real work in there, so I don't have an established work pattern. Determining how I am going to work in the space, for me is more important to think about than spending time deciding on workarounds for 3 phase in a 1 phase world. So the 3 phase conversion just adds another link in the chain that I have to think about and also I don't want to risk any technical problems dealing with it. Not that thousands of people aren't converting 3 phase all the time, but I know 100% that 1 phase 220 will work without mods, and I can move on.

The second issue is power. I'm used to a 5hp saw. I also know a 3hp saw will work fine for me (my old Uni was 3hp). A Delta RI 1.5 motor I just don't know. Not that I couldn't figure out a way to make it work, but again I don't know how my abilities will match up with that saw. This is also the reason I didn't switch over to a complete EZ system incidently. So with a little more experience, I would maybe have made a different decision, but where I am today, with my current set of knowledge and abilities the PM66 (or Grizz) was a better fit.

So finally I narrowed the choice is between a new Grizz or a used PM66. This decision came down to the motor, and the build quality of the 66 vs the cleanliness and the presentation of the Grizz. For me a few bumps and bruises on the PM66 was more than offset by the motor and the build of the PM66, and I liked 66 feel a bit better. Though they both have the clunky Bies fence (now I'm ducking for cover):rolleyes:.

I'll try to post pictures later today. Thanks again for reading.

[Doug Shepard]

OK it's done, and the winner is......
Powermatic 66.
...



This is easily the most intelligent post I've read all day.:D
Congratulations.

[Lenny Howard]

[quote=Brian Smith3;864874]OK it's done, and the winner is......
Powermatic 66.

But what a weekend. I got my saw guy to agree to let the production shop end its lease on their saw (about two months) with the Grizzly 1023 and then let pick up the Powermatic. He agreed (though I had to give him my spot on a 3 day tuna fishing trip) and the shop could have cared less so I ended up taking the Grizz and setting it up in the shop and then taking the PM66 from the shop directly. That was a lot of work and driving and coordinating!

A very big THANK YOU to everyone that helped me think about this project. I hadn't really considered the 66 before I posted and now I have it, so obviously you guys had an impact.

I think you made a great choice. I've used the 66 daily (shared actually, with at least 2 others on any given day) for the last 7 years. It's a real workhorse and a joy to use.

[John Keeton]

And now you need to study Chris Rosenberger restoration threads and do a first class upgrade on that PM with full extension tables, incra, etc, etc.!!