Cutting Metals in a Woodshop

[Brian Kent]

I have only cut a few pieces of brass for plane caps. I used my hacksaw and did just fine. But I am wondering what I can use if I get into more brass cutting and even try O-1 steel for blade-making and stainless steel for plane bodies.

I am definitely not trying to get into metal working, except as necessary to make woodworking tools. I don't want production volume - just the right tools for making a dozen blades, an infill plane, caps for blades, knife blades, etc.

I'm just counting the costs before I jump in.

1) Is a standard hacksaw fine or do I need a professional hacksaw? (And what is professional? I just found a "Professional Hacksaw" right next to a pair of "Professional Block Planes - 2 for $11.99")

2) Metal-cutting blades in my jigsaw? Bosch 1590 EVSK. Do I use a woodworking vise or get a specialty vise?

3) I am assuming I don't want metal filings in my bandsaw, even if there is a blade that works.

4) Metal-cutting Scrollsaw blades?

5) Are there better hacksaw blades or will any ol' hacksaw blade do the job as well?

6) How much of an anvil do I need for minimal work?

[Lee Schierer]

In my experience the trick to hack saw blades is getting them tensioned without twisitng them. Any frame that does that quickly and well is a winner regardless of the price. I have a Reed hacksaw that has a square tubular top bar and an lever type tensioning arrangment. It tightens straight every time.

As far as buying hack saw blades, avoid the bargain blades at the discount retail stores. Stick with the name brands and you will get more cuts per blade.

I would not recommend cutting metal on your wood bandsaw. The blade speed will be way too fast. Metal cutting saws have much slower blades speeds.

Depending upon how much metal you need to cut, you should be able to find a local one room machine shop that will cut it for you for a reasonable fee or trade for some woodworking (small boxes or bit organizers).

[Roger Lance]

Brian...I don't know that much about metal working but I know its best not to get metal shavings anywhere in your woodworking shop...nothing good will come of this so I'm careful to clean up as I go or better yet, do that type of work elsewhere...I did buy a regular metalwork vise that I mounted to a piece of plywood and keep that vise on a lower shelf...when I need to work some metal just clamp it to a bench using that piece of plywood and store it away when done.

[Scott Rychnovsky]

Brian,

Cutting Aluminum with carbide tools on normal wood working machines works well. I have cut 1/4" aluminum on a miter saw and it worked very well (but it is loud!). I have used a metal cutting blade on a stock 12" Delta bandsaw and it cuts very nicely. Lubricate the blade with bee's wax first. This is my preferred method, and I have cut 1" Al without trouble. I have also used a jigsaw, but not often. People claim you can use a router with carbide blades on Aluminum, but I have not tried it.

Steel is a completely different game. The recommended cutting speeds are much slower, and you will need special slow speeds on a bandsaw to make it work. I would not put steel on a miter saw--you are just asking for an accident. Steel will heat up the tool edge at wood working speeds and destroy the temper on it. Note that Stainless steel also work hardens, so you should cut it even slower to avoid letting it heat up.

Steel can be drilled at slower speeds and I would guess that a good jigsaw with a metal-cutting blade would cut it effectively if you slowed down the speed. Hacksaw's work but are slow. Get good quality bi-metallic blades. You can get chop saws for cheap. I have not used one, but it might be just the thing for hacking off tubing at 90 degrees. They cut with an abrasive disk rather than with a metal blade.

Clamp your steel to a table if you are using any kind of power tool on it.

Scott

[Mike Henderson]

There's also the risk of fire. Many metal cutting operations produce sparks. Having a pile of sawdust or shavings for those sparks to fall into is asking for trouble.

Mike

[Ben Cadotte]

I have only cut a few pieces of brass for plane caps. I used my hacksaw and did just fine. But I am wondering what I can use if I get into more brass cutting and even try O-1 steel for blade-making and stainless steel for plane bodies.

I am definitely not trying to get into metal working, except as necessary to make woodworking tools. I don't want production volume - just the right tools for making a dozen blades, an infill plane, caps for blades, knife blades, etc.

I'm just counting the costs before I jump in.

1) Is a standard hacksaw fine or do I need a professional hacksaw? (And what is professional? I just found a "Professional Hacksaw" right next to a pair of "Professional Block Planes - 2 for $11.99")


If the hacksaw says "professional" thats the first indication not to buy it. The better hacksaw tensions the blade with a lever. This removes the twisting caused by the thumb screw type saws.

2) Metal-cutting blades in my jigsaw? Bosch 1590 EVSK. Do I use a woodworking vise or get a specialty vise?

I buy Lenox bi-metal blades for metal working (hacksaw, jigsaw, and sawsall). The vice deppends on what your cutting. The closer you can cut to the vise the less gripping power it needs on part being cut. If you have to cut a ways away from the clamping portion of the vice, you need more clamping pressure because the saw acts as a lever. The further away the higher the lever action.
3) I am assuming I don't want metal filings in my bandsaw, even if there is a blade that works.

Deppends on the metal your cutting. Soft brass is pretty harmless. If you have some fine tooth blades you will find out it will work as good on brass as wood. Rules for thin wood apply to thin metals. More teeth, and have the bottom of the cut supported to control tear out. Steel is what you have to watch out for. High speed will dull the blade very quickly do to heat / work hardening.
4) Metal-cutting Scrollsaw blades?

For soft metals, just use a good fine tooth wood blade. I am sure they make metal blades for them, but I have never purchased them.

5) Are there better hacksaw blades or will any ol' hacksaw blade do the job as well?

Again bi-metal blades will last longer than regular steel blades.

6) How much of an anvil do I need for minimal work?

Anvil size deppends on shape desired and thickness / type of material. Working with thin brass for small objects. A 25# or 55# anvil may be just fine. Working on 1/4" steel, maybe a 200-300# anvil will be needed. Could even be as small as a 3# ball peen hammer clamped into a vice. The harder the material is to bending the larger the anvil or more appropriately a "back up" is required. Anvils are designed to use the horn for rounding / shaping, with the flat section used for working. The larger anvils the radius on the horn may not be appropriate for what you want. Not a metal worker, nor had any instruction on it. Just from experiences.

I once made for lack of propper wording a "cup" out of 18 gauge steel for a car project. I used a form made from oak. I used a 5# sledge as a back up weight to the wood form. And a ball peen for the striking. Worked just fine.

[Jeff Duncan]

For the amount of work your doing your best bet will probably be to stick with the hacksaw. A decent frame with a good quality blade (Lennox for one) will make short work of brass or steel. As you seem to have noticed the term "professional" or even "industrial" doesn't mean much these days. Get your hands on the saw and you will know whether it's decent quality or not. This is an inexpensive enough purchase to make locally, that way you know what your getting.
I'm not a metalworker either, but I do a fair amount of tinkering with steel, aluminum, brass, and copper and the thing is they all have different working properties. If you do a fair amount of steel you may want to look into a handheld bandsaw for cutting. The abrasive type saws will produce too much heat and likely ruin the temper of the pieces for the work your doing, and as said previously your woodworking bandsaw is much too fast for cutting steel. Jigsaw with the right blades could also work well.
As for a vice you would be better off IMO with a metal vise than a WW version. You can get one pretty cheaply from Grizzly complete with a small anvil for detail work. I've got one I bought for short money about a decade ago and though it's definitely a cheaply made product, it's still doing fine.
good luck,
JeffD

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

1) Is a standard hacksaw fine or do I need a professional hacksaw? (And what is professional? I just found a "Professional Hacksaw" right next to a pair of "Professional Block Planes - 2 for $11.99")Brass and alum cut like butter.

Steel:
There is no such thing as a professional hack saw (fopr the life of me I don't know why that word get so misused).
A nice expensive heavy duty one that doesn't let the blade flex is what you want. I prefer a Sawzall set to slow speed with metal cutting blades, a 10" metal cutting wheel on the table saw, or a metal blade in a band saw - so long as you can slow it down enough. Most wood band saws don't go slow enough.


2) Metal-cutting blades in my jigsaw? Bosch 1590 EVSK. Do I use a woodworking vise or get a specialty vise?Jig saw blades for thin stuff about 1/8" thick: OK, thicker not so much. If you use the vise you have you will be going through the wood jaw covers fast. Metal work makes everything dirty and oily.


3) I am assuming I don't want metal filings in my bandsaw, even if there is a blade that works.Depends on the saw and the saw speeds and all that.


4) Metal-cutting Scrollsaw blades?I don't know nuth'n 'bout that. I'd guess a jewelers supply might have something.


5) Are there better hacksaw blades or will any ol' hacksaw blade do the job as well? I use the stuff at the BORG.


6) How much of an anvil do I need for minimal work?How much pounding do you want to do? Do you want to forge steel~? I never had one. Ive often thought a piece of RXR track would be nice.

I do a lot of work with metal: cutting tapping drilling shaping you name it. The only thing I don't like is not having a totally separate sho for metal work. It is dirty filthy oily work and it gets all over everything.

Recently I have been working on a project for which I had to make my own bi-directional two door cabinet latch to operate from one control. One latch works on a 90 degree axis from the other.
I've had to engineer and make all my metal parts as nothing was available on the market.
So I have a nice maple project with maple and Mahog' inlays all over the shop and at the same time I'm cutting, drilling, tapping, brazing and working steel. It's a challenge not to ruin the work with the mess that metal working makes.
Good thing I have two benches and one is an ugly mess anyway.

[Kevin Groenke]

Yeah, what they said.

You can use many woodworking machines (I wouldn't try a router or shaper-yikes) and ordinary tooling on brass, copper and aluminum, AS LONG AS YOU KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT and take the proper precautions. A few metal shavings in your bandsaw isn't going to hurt anything, just blow or vac it out when you're done and maybe hit the tires with a wire brush. If you're going to do alot of this and you have the space, get a little 9-10" bandsaw(or bigger) and put in a blade w/10-16 tpi for a dedicated metal saw. if you can change pulleys or belts to slow it down a bit, all the better.

A metal vise with a built in flat spot and even a small anvil horn is a handy thing to have, it will save wear and tear on the wood vise. I find a small drill press vise (with flat, square sides) very useful. Clamp small parts in it when bandsawing, sanding or filing, v jaws hold round stock, clamp it into your WW vise to turn it into a metal vise, use on drill press, etc...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41VD02J9H5L._SL500_AA280_.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B0006N8CUG/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=228013&s=hi)

AND since nobody else has mentioned,

Tool steel and to some extent stainless are exceedingly difficult to manipulate with anything but machine shop equipment. I believe tool steel is most commonly cut w/EDM , laser or waterjet. Plane blades and the like are hardened after they're shaped, the only way to change their shape is going to be a file or abrasives. You might be able to cut thin stainless with a shear, nibbler or jigsaw, but if it's more than ~14ga you're going to need a metal cutting bandsaw or a heavy shear or you're going to cut it with abrasives.

[Cary Falk]

Brian,
Get you one of these from HF. I got mine on sale with a coupon for about $130. It is a gem in my opinion. It cuts with no sparks and is not noisy like a chop saw. It locks in the upright position and has a little table that you can cut on it like a regular band saw. I love mine.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/93700-93799/93762.gif

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Get you one of these
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/93700-93799/93762.gif

I have never been in a machine shop without one and I've been in a lot of shops.

[Bob Slater]

That is a good price for a metal bandsaw. I have a large horizontal saw with a hydraulic lowering device that I bought used many years ago, as well as a couple of metal and wood bandsaws. (Beaver 3 wheel and Delta 14" gear box model) The Bosch jigsaws work very well as does the sawzall for some cuts. Get some files and a grinding wheel too. I love cutting metal. Dremel tools with the cut off wheel has come in handy for some tasks. I am Just getting started in wood really, so my shop has more metal stuff than wood for the moment.

[Brian Kent]

Lots of good info to chew on. I'll start simple with a hacksaw that doesn't twist and some Lennox bi-metal blades, along with a drill-press vise or a metal vise with anvil.

Is the vise one of the things I could get at Harbor Freight without fear, or should I get one at a better place?

[Ben Cadotte]

I have a cheap china vise from another store like HF. I have beat some pretty big things on it and so far has held up fine. The HF vises might have some extra backlash in the screw but that doesn't matter once you crank down on it (poor fit and finish). But I bet they will take a punishment like other vises in the same size range.

[Tom Esh]

Is the vise one of the things I could get at Harbor Freight without fear...

Be afraid, be very afraid;) I was checking them out last week. Some seemed okay (sorta), and the action on some others were really terrible. Probably the same story on the materials, though it's harder to tell. Some of them looked like all untreated CI - even the jaw faces, which if anything like their anvils, is bad news.
Anyway I did buy a small 11# anvil. Wasn't expecting much for the price - and that's about what I got. First use hot forming some mild steel, the face edges started breaking away. I since learned the experts call these ASOs or Anvil Shaped Objects (as opposed to the real ones which cost a bundle). A had a short piece of railroad rail (lost in a move) which was much, much tougher stuff.

[Ray Gardiner]

Hi Brian,

Cutting mild steel, apart from hacksawing and filing can be done with
metal cut-off wheels in a circular saw, or what I prefer is a 4" angle grinder
with a thin blade (1mm). I also cut 1/4" mild steel flat and brass on my bandsaw with a fine-toothed bi-metal blade on low speed.

I have used a router table to mill brass but with careful setup and very
light cuts. (don't go crazy).

Also you can shape (turn) brass on a wood lathe using files.

Things, I wouldn't do in a woodworking shop. Welding Forging etc. just
because of the risk of fire. I have all my welding stuff well away.

Hope this helps.

[Brian Kent]

Ray, as your signature says, it's like deja vu all over again.

I forgot about my angle grinder. 5 years ago we moved into a house with a swimming pool slide anchored into cement. It would have cost us an extra $1,200 per year in home owners insurance to keep the slide.

Considering the fact that we can by a lot of tools (or food and gas) for the $6,000 it would have cost us so far, it was amazing how fast my little angle grinder went through those aluminum supports!

Brian

[Aaron Dunham]

I have never been in a machine shop without one and I've been in a lot of shops.

I'm that shop. In seven years of business I have never owned or used a bandsaw. Would be nice to eventually make the switch, though. For the original poster: abrasive cutting for steel absolutely demands a respirator, eye, & hearing protection, as well as an awareness of where your sparks are going. Always have a fire extinguisher ready!

http://www.azflyandtie.com/photopost/data/500/MMR.jpg
http://www.azflyandtie.com/photopost/data/500/IChair.jpg
http://www.azflyandtie.com/photopost/data/500/EFX1.jpg
http://www.azflyandtie.com/photopost/data/500/Nebeker.jpg

[Josiah Bartlett]

I do any metal cutting or welding outside. If you have an air compressor, don't overlook the classic 3" abrasive cutoff tool, it works well.

[Art Kelly]

I'll pass this on FWIW:

I was at the Georgia Custom Knifemaker's Guild "Hammer-In" last month to see what I could learn that might apply to making WW tools. One piece of advice that stuck was, that if you get an anvil, get a STEEL one, not cast iron. And wrap a chain around the base to deaden the ringing noise. There were about 10 anvils there, and everyone had a chain.

Cool bunch of folks, BTW.

Art

[Dino Makropoulos]

I'm that shop. In seven years of business I have never owned or used a bandsaw. Would be nice to eventually make the switch, though. For the original poster: abrasive cutting for steel absolutely demands a respirator, eye, & hearing protection, as well as an awareness of where your sparks are going. Always have a fire extinguisher ready!

http://www.azflyandtie.com/photopost/data/500/MMR.jpg
http://www.azflyandtie.com/photopost/data/500/IChair.jpg
http://www.azflyandtie.com/photopost/data/500/EFX1.jpg
http://www.azflyandtie.com/photopost/data/500/Nebeker.jpg

Nice work.:cool:

[Jerry McFalls]

I've used a jigsaw with a metal cutting blade to cut 1/4 steel plate with no problems. No sparks except when the blade got dull.

I have a large fire extinguisher in my shop and recommend everyone have one just in case. Years ago I lost a mobile home because I didn't have one. Never again.

Good luck. :)

[Mike Heidrick]

Years ago I lost a mobile home
:)

Sorry for your loss. That comment did make me smile though - was thinking "lost" was funny verb to use for a mobile home. Pictured a guy coming home to a house that was not there - and with a mobile home there would be so many other reasons that could possibly happen. Poor taste I know. Sorry again.

[jim gossage]

i use a bimetal blade on my dewalt jigsaw, and it works great on 1/8" thick metal of various kinds, and also on thicker bar stock (like a 1/2" rod). beats the heck out of a hacksaw.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,
I cut a safe in half a couple of months ago w/my corded DeWalt recip. saw and a (one) Milwaukee metal blade.
The DeWalt is only a 10 amp.
I shudder to think what the 13 amp Bosch would go through w/the right blade. (That beastie is just shy of a WOMD w/the right blade)