Anant Kamal.. better than Anant..?

[John Thompson]

I have seen several ask this question on various forums.. but few responses with the exception of the Kamal #10 rabbet. I don't think many others have been sold and probably because of the bad responses about the standard Anant.
I can answer the question about the Kamal #7 jointer at this point. The Highland WW header says it is better machined and a step up from the standard Anant with a thicker iron. And.. the thicker iron resulted in a tighter fit and less gap in the throat opening. But.. not much more than that as to any significant detail.

I was given a new #7 as a gift and told to exchange it if I didn't like it by my FIL and BIL who know little about hand planes. They had over-heard me mention I needed a #7 jointer and owed me a few markers.
So... the sole was flatter than the Anant's I have had my hands on. The biggest discrepancy was about .003 and the sides had as much as .004 at the top. That good news and improvement but... the machines marks were deeper than the standard Anants I have en-countered so.....
The Kamal has nicer wooden handles and a brass adjuster knob as opposed to the zinc on the standard A. The iron is thicker even though I cannot say at this point if it needs to be replaced with a Hock. Just how good the grade of steel is in the iron is questionable. But... the buck stops there as I see it!

With the throat opening on this plane, it was so tight I was not able to take a medium shaving. I prefer to be able to take both fine and medium with a jointer. This was a problem to me as the fix is not as easy as an LV with an adjustable throat. But.. I can't afford the LV jointer.. so the challenge was faced in lieu of returning it.

This plane had a relatively flat sole but... the machine marks were deep and I prefer polished. $15 worth of 80 grit adhesive sand-paper got it to the point of moving up the steps in grit to 1200. I did the same with the sides but could not get all the machine marks at the top out which I left. This took about 7 hours of push and pull sanding on a tempered glass plate. Another hour to go through the remaining grit. Whew...

I had to square the inside of the rectangle that receives the fore-aft adjust bar. About 15 minutes. The Bailey style frog had to be filed to flat to take out a few high spots and machine marks to mate properly to the back of blade. The same with the rear throat on the sole to ensure a continuos bed. Another 45 minutes or so.

Another 45 minutes to flatten and polish the iron back and the same with the bevel. Put it together to run some shavings as I suspected it would clog with medium shaving as the throat was that tight. You guessed it if you guessed I was correct. Another 45 to an hour to file about 3/64" off the face of the throat. The chip breaker and cap iron needed another 30 minutes to flatten.

That was yesterday and today is today. Would I recommend it to someone in need of a cheap plane? NO.. Time invested would put the cost of the plane beyond an LV IMO. And I would not recommend it to anyone who doesn't understand the importance of how the frog.. throat.. chip-breaker.. cap iron works in conjunction.

Will I keep the plane as my keeper? Yep.. as today it is as good as any other with the way it cuts. But... only after I basically re-surrected the plane from the "dead" with over 12 hours work. It was free and now it is useful as opposed to useless when I took it out of the box.

Fine shavings... medium shavings are illustrated below.. after a lot of work. That's all I would have ask for in any plane. Sometimes you just have to weigh the value of the journey.
Hope that helps anyone considering getting a Kamal that is on a budget or just beginning.

Sarge..

[Jim Koepke]

Would I recommend it to someone in need of a cheap plane? NO.. Time invested would put the cost of the plane beyond an LV IMO. And I would not recommend it to anyone who doesn't understand the importance of how the frog.. throat.. chip-breaker.. cap iron works in conjunction.

In someways I agree and in some I have to disagree.

I am still on the search for a flow of money that will come my way to pay for those hours not spent working on a plane or other tool.

If one's hours can be filled with money producing endeavors, then it may be wise to spend the extra money buying a plane that will work great right out of the box.

If there are some spare hours in one's week, it may be a matter of frugality and personal satisfaction to bring an otherwise piece of junk into fine shape. For years to come, you will use this plane and be reminded of the effort spent to make it a great user. Maybe the satisfaction of your efforts will bring a smile to your face. Maybe your heirs will treasure the story as they use this plane.

Some of my favorite planes are former collectors of rust. Some of them are not yet to their final finished state, but they work great.

My grandchildren like to come into my shop and help. They ask questions whether I am working on wood, sharpening blades or fettling an old plane. The two older ones, 6 and 5, occasionally like to use the tools.

jim

[Brian Kent]

A good word from both of you!

John, thank you for that review. I have been hoping for someone to do that for us. The process you described sounds very much like my path with the standard Anant 4-1/2 about 2 years ago. I appreciate hearing your story… and Jim's right. It's a great story. When your grandkids inherit your Anant Kamal #7 they will hear from you how you spent over 70 hours lapping the bottom of the plane and how you had to recast the iron on the frog.

I don't regret the many hours I spent in each of several different rounds getting my 4-1/2 to be a user. I might save up for my next plane or restore a Stanley or try a Steve Knight or build a Krenov, but I am glad I learned on the Anant what kind of work it takes to hone and lap and improve a plane.

The other question I had - you answered. Was the Kamal series good enough to use with a minimum of honing, and the answer is no.

Thanks for your time and especially for writing about it for all our benefit.

Brian Kent

[Doug Shepard]

I must have just gotten lucky but I've got the non-Kamal version and it seems to work decent enough and with nowhere near the labor. Not in the same caliber as my LV BU Jointer but I wasn't expecting perfection for $90. Maybe about the same time as your's to work the iron, but that's about it. Sole flatness was pretty darn flat compared to my older LV Alum straight-edge but I haven't re-chcked against their steel SE that I got since then. But I could just see the faintest sliver of light here and there so I left it alone. And maybe 15 minutes to get the chip breaker right. I'll fess up to not checking as many things as you did though but it seemed be be working better than I'd hoped so I didn't go looking for problems. There's some pics with shavings on this thread, both a full width thicker cut and some thinner shavings while working diagonally.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=57646
I wouldn't dream of using this instead of my LV on something hard/figured but it's been worth the $90 I spent as a Tide-me-over buy until I could afford the better one.

[John Thompson]

Jim K. made a good point about going to the trouble of spending the time required to make it truly battle-ready. I suppose I should have said that if you are a beginner and don't understand the working relation-ship of a hand plane, this would not be a good place to start.

This #7 Kamal sells for $119 and an older Stanley.. Sargent.. etc. can be had for basically nothing on E-bay. That would be better to start learning how planes work from a monetary stand-point IMO. That way if you decide that a hand plane is not your cup of tea.. you have little invested. In this case.. if the blade will not hold a decent edge.. you will have another $40-$50 invested in a new Hock iron. That is pushing your cost up significantly with the initial investment.

And if you don't have patience.. fettling may not be your cup of tea. I sold my LV #6 and LV # 4 1/2 here as it allowed me to invest elsewhere. Those are excellent planes out of the box but the same performance can be had much cheaper if you know how to properly take a cheap plane and make it perform. Once you can and do.. you can't tell the difference in a LV-LN shaving from Anant IMO.

I replaced those with a standard Anant # 4 and #5 which required the extra work to bring them up to snuff. I kept my LV low angle smoother and medium shoulder. I have a Stanley low angle block I have had for many years. Those planes cover my base and are all I need as I use them almost every day as my daily shop-time is about 6-10 hours a day. Same with scrapers and spoke-shaves.

Glad you got some use of the review. I have seen the question asked several times with no replies. Highland doesn't give much additional info other than what the description reads. But.. now I know that even though tolerances are a bit better, machine marks are not and there are still other issues to be dealt with. And you know!

BTW.. I build a lot with others scraps and I have tools others throw or give away as junk. If it's a tool with a basic concept design.. I will make it work asI do have the patience and will take the time. And I take exceptionable pride in doing that.

Or as my wife might say... he's very frugal. A very diplomatic way of saying cheap.

Regards...

Sarge..

[John Thompson]

Hey Doug... I was posting just as you entered your post. Read the post I just made to Brian. I also have a standard #4 and #5 and spent much less time getting them to the finish line. Keep in mind the #7 does have a 22 inch sole, but the machine marks appeared much deeper in the Kamal than the 4 or 5.

And the Kamal did have a flatter sole than the standard #5.. but the #4 was almost flat when I got it. Just needed light work to get the machine marks out and polish. No where near the time spent on either of the standards with the frog or throat, even though the throat on the #4 are a little wider out of the box than I would like. The #5 was about right as I use it to hog a little and am looking for mainly medium shavings on that one.

So.. go figure? The main difference is the handle.. brass knobs as the frog mate and throat was much worse on the Kamal I got as opposed to the standard. And the blade is thicker.

The good news I suppose is it had no major humps on the back and hasn't ask for a drink of water yet between oasis's. I can't answer if it will operate in sandy terrain... yet. :D

Regards...

Sarge..

[Doug Shepard]

John
I dont see this mentioned on the Highland Hardware site but I thought when they were first announced that the Kamals were going to have a thicker blade. They didn't just shove a thicker blade in while keeping the same mouth opening as the standard version did they? Just seems odd that it would have such a tight mouth.

[John Thompson]

It didn't occur to me to measure when I first ran into that problem Doug, but I just went down to make a comparison. Keep in mine that the #4 and #5 have a 2" wide iron and had the thinner blade stock. The opening on the #5 was around 5 mm. I measured to the best of my ability to the original opening on the Kamal and it was approximately 6mm-6.5mm.

When I made a test set up from the box, the iron would hardly clear the throat at all. I did notice the the rectangular hole in the chip-breaker was off my maybe a mm. I filed that square and it allowed just a tad more throat clearance.. but only enough that a sem-fine shaving would jamb in the chip-breaker. That led to noticing the chip breaker has several .000 gap on one side. I filed it flat and later used the sand-paper to properly get it smooth and polish. That produced slighty more throat clearance but no way enough.

I went ahead and took care of trueing the frog and the rear of the throat. That added a slight amount of more clearance and I mean slight. I decided to go ahead and flatten the back and polish the iron. Then add the bevel as that would bring the iron down a hair.

After all was said and done... just about right for a fine shaving... but not near enough for a medium to clear as it jambed quickly. I took off about 3/64" eye-balling. Probably a hair over what I needed with the thickness of shaving I desired when going medium. Sort of an educated guess as I know my preference for shaving thickness when I set up for a given task.

So.. it was probably slightly larger than the Standard with a ful 1/8" iron and 2 3/8 wide blade. Could have been a fluke and then again.. just a design flaw? The next time I go down (with the price of gas I normally just order UPS as it gets to me next day 26 miles away) I will measure a couple to see that. They do keep the #7 upstairs, but Sabiha will gladly go up and haul one down.

The blade thickness may not be on-line BTW.. I read it in the catalog as quite often they are more descriptive there? But the blade is 1/8" as most full irons which is good.. if it will clear the throat properly. Maybe have been an Indian holiday or late Friday when this puppy rolled down the line.. who knows? :D

Regards...

Sarge..

[Johnny Kleso]

I was very lucky at eBay two weeks back to win this beauty a No7C T16 for $117.50 with originak Box
I also won the same week a No3C T16 with box for and unbelievable $53

http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/7c.jpg

[John Thompson]

Nice haul Johnny. I have been looking for a bed-rock for 6 months locally with no luck really. Then again.. I can't spend a great deal of time looking.

I see you are over in Rex.. where did Stanley #7 and seller come from?

Enjoy...

Sarge..

[John Thompson]

7C came from eBay

I have a 606 round sides I just refinished I sell for $120 with out wood if your intrested

I really don't need any more planes at this point, Johnny. I sold a LV #6 fore about 6 months ago on this forum and it left me with a #4.. #5.. LV low angle smoother and my LA & standard blocks I have had for over 30 years. I got the #7 to fill the gap left by selling the #6 as I wanted a little longer sole to register better on long and wide.

But.. I will pass that to some of the locals here in Gwinnett as many are discovering the value of having hand planes even though most cut their teeth on power tools.

Regards...

Sarge..

[Johnny Kleso]

John,
The No7 and No3 where from eBay..

I'm hoping to do a plane re-finished and sharpening demo at my house this summer hope you can make it..

[John Thompson]

John,
The No7 and No3 where from eBay..

I'm hoping to do a plane re-finished and sharpening demo at my house this summer hope you can make it..

When in Vietnam I have force marched with about 60-70 lbs. strapped on my back further than Rex, Ga. in one day. And to do something I didn't really care too. So... a hop.. skip.. and jump to Rex in a pick-up to do something I would care to do would be a pleasure.

PM me when you intend to do it and if it doesn't interfere with work or no immediate family emergencies... I would be delighted to make it, sir.

Regards from Lawrenceville...

Sarge..

[Richard Niemiec]

I've been asking around the net about the Anant plough plane, as the price seems right and it seems that the design is such that it won't take much fettling to get it working right, I guess I just don't want to be the pioneer and risk getting the arrow in by backside.

So, anyone here tried the plough??

[John Thompson]

I don't have one Richard.. but I have had a few mention to me they did have the plough and #10 rabbet plane. Not LN or LV quality but about as good as what Stanley came to be. It will require work according to those I spoke to as my #7.. but I have two more Anants and expected that for the price point.

But.. I will say the ones I have once over-hauled cut as well as my LV's did before I sold them upon changing the iron. Haven't done that yet with the thicker Camel :>) iron as the jury is still out there. They are a take-off of the original Stanleys and don't have the adjustable mouth or the side screws that lock laterral as the the LV's... but then again you only have to look at the price to see they aren't claiming to be out of the box.

I would post a thread asking as it will get more traffic.

Regards...

Sarge..

[Michael Faurot]

I've been asking around the net about the Anant plough plane, as the price seems right and it seems that the design is such that it won't take much fettling to get it working right, I guess I just don't want to be the pioneer and risk getting the arrow in by backside.

So, anyone here tried the plough??

I have the Anant No.52 Plough and pretty much hate it. My big complaint is the fence. With the fence attached, and when you push it to the side of the work, the fence will pull the plane over and away from 90 degrees. I was able to work around this by way of making my wooden runner for the fence have an angle to it and thus making the plane and cutter sit 90 degrees to the work.

Having said that, I did pull my Anant Plough out recently for a simple Pine box I was making to plow grooves for the bottom. It did work pretty well in Pine.

Using it with hardwoods has been a different story.

Ultimately, I'l get rid of it after I can afford to replace it with the Veritas Plow. My recommendation would be to save your money and go straight to Veritas.

[Richard Niemiec]

Michael: thanks for the comment. I sort of figured each individual plane would be its own adventure, and maybe I'll thin out the herd of a few #4s, #5s and some block planes and put the funds towards the LV.