Cherry Bowl

[Mitchell Cholewinski]

Turned this bowl from a piece of wet cherry Approx 8" high and 11" diameter. The finish is gloss poly urethane which I like to use to seal the wet wood soon as it is turned. Haven't had a turning disfigure when treated this way no matter how wet it is. Mitch

[Cary Swoveland]

That's a very nice bowl, Mitchell. Nice figure, color and shape. I'm new to turning, but surprised the finish would keep it from cracking.

Cary

[Mitchell Cholewinski]

Cary
Thanks Cary. When I first started turning, I had a couple truck loads of cherry and turned a bunch of these bowls I really got to likeing cherry wood. When you have wet wood Cary and you start cutting on the outside, the first thing the wood does is start drying on the outside, almost immediately. If left unsealed the wood would dry very fast on the outside and much slower on the inside. This is when you have problems. Soon as I finish turning a piece I immediately seal it with either shellac, white or amber, sanding sealer or varnish. This seals the pores.Next day you hardly can tell you put anything on the piece cause the wood is so wet. I just keep repeating putting on coats of the 3 different sealers I use. These bowls, I never lost one yet.If I had to wait for months for wood to dry, I think I would quit turning.I know a lot of guys are skeptical about doing it this way but I did it hundreds of times since starting. A lot of time you get cracking etc from the piece of wood your turning. Lots of branches are notorious for cracking because the wood was growing under stress, blowing in the wind etc. Only way for you to see that this way works is for you to try it yourself and see. Seal, seal seal. If you don't turn wet wood your missing the best way of turning in my opinion. I only paid for one piece of wood in my turning career and my wife bought it for my birthday. Good Luck, Mitch

[Barry Elder]

Never say Never! Murphy's law will eventually prevail. You have a very nice bowl there!!

[Bernie Weishapl]

Great looking bowl Mitchell. Really like the wood.

[Mitchell Cholewinski]

Barry
Thanks Barry. I think you misread what I said about never losing a bowl yet. I said I never, as of yet, have I lost a bowl treating it as I do. I turned several hundred. Stuff happens and eventually I will lose one, but I bet it will be my fault and not the way I sealed the wood. Thanks again. Mitch

[Mitchell Cholewinski]

Bernie. Yes sir, cherry is my favorite wood, all time. I used to make a lot of cabinets and really liked when cherry was the chosen wood.Always was easy to work and a bit of a challenge when finishing. Cherry is usually light colored but after applying a finish it gets darker every year.hard to tell people that and later they are not happy. Thanks Bernie. Mitch

[Chris Barnett]

You mention that you use three different sealers. Do you use the same sealer each time on the same piece, or have you found a preference for the first or last coating if different ones are used? If turning on the same day, do you seal the outside before turning the inside?

[Mitchell Cholewinski]

Chris
Yes I use 3 different sealers, depending on which one I have on hand at the time. If I have a light colored wood with not much coloring to the wood, I will use a deluted ,amber shellac, lightly deluted with alcohol. If I don't want to change the coloring of the substrate(wood), I will use a clear shellac. It dries fast so most times I put on a few coats before quitting for the day.Sanding sealer is good and I use it a lot when I have it on hand. Depending on how fast you turn decides when I put the finish on. I always finish whatever I am turning in one day, so when I finish the outside I seal, take a coffee break and hollow the inside and seal. I found out that in order to succeed with this method you can't skimp on the sealing. If you really like what you just turned, you can't seal too much. Be careful not to use shellac, sanding sealer or var with to thick a viscosity. Thin it a little and the results will be much better for you. You might not want to do this method because it calls for multiple coats of sealer. I have put on as many as 12 coats on a large vase most times but I would rather do this than wait 3 months for my wood to dry. I am a fairly new wood turner, but I have been finishing cabinets and furniture for a bunch of years and know, if done right, this works fine. Try it, your going to like it. I forgot to mention. Don't get discouraged if you put on a couple coats of whatever sealer and when it dries it looks like nothing is on there. The wood is wet and you need to keep sealing. Mitch

[Cary Swoveland]

Mitchell,

I'm really interested in your method, and plan to try it.

Do you decide if and when to add another coat of sealer by the look of the piece? Do you essentially keep sealing until the piece is as dry as it's going to get--possibly weeks or months after you've turned it--and at that point apply any top coats to complete the finishing process?

Cary

[Bob Hallowell]

I am not sure I understand, green wood will always move when it drys and it can still dry although slower with a sealer. Alot of times I will turn a HF completely while still green and I put Minwax AO on it and it still moves, plus I do alot of peppermills sometimes the wood is greener than I thought and it moves. I always use shelac as a sealer then many coats of laquer. I had to retrue several.

Is there something else you are doing to keeo it form moving besides putting a finish on it? Which way are you orienting your bowls?

Btw it is a pretty bowl.
Bob

[Mitchell Cholewinski]

Cary
I always turn green wood, so it is understood the wood is wet. OK? So I know everything is going to need to be sealed. If you are starting out doing this try using either sanding sealer or clear shellac. Doesn't change the color of the substrate (wood) hardly at all and dries quickly so you can keep putting on another coat. Sand the nibs lightly and reseal. If I turn something I especially like I will put on as many as 12 coats but not always.Seems like a lot but it isn't, I might seal 10 turnings at one time, half hour. Eventually as I seal turnings I take a couple out and say that thould be enough coats for this baby. I have never gone a couple months and still sealing my turning. All I can tell you is it is better to overseal than try to get away with skimping on the job. Sometimes in a few months and they are dry and you feel ambitious wax the ones you like best. Let it sit and cure more. I have never had a turning move or twist on me doing this.If you aren't familiar with using any kind of shellac, put on as many coats as you want but always put at least 2 coats of poly over the shellac. Reason for this is if you get water on shellac it will ruin the finish.You probably know that but I thought I should mention it. Cary I don't profess to be no expert on this but am no beginner in finishing work either and all I can say is it truly works for me. I have been kindly criticized for always using these same finishes but my answer is, I like these finishes and they work for me. Save me time etc so I'm satisfied.Like I said before, if I had to wait for 3 months for a piece of wood to dry and even then it still deformed, I would quit turning. I love turning and all the good people too much to ever quit. If you have any problems, and you will, write me if you want. Mitch

[Mitchell Cholewinski]

Bob Hallowell
Bob, When I start a turning the wood is sealed with wax on both ends, to prevent drying, right? I put the wood on the lathe with the long grain from headstock to tail stock. The hollowing is always hollowed on the end grain.This wood is not going to dry untill after I start cutting, and I do a lot of large HF. I usually always finish a vase etc in one day and seal immediately after sanding. You mention you sealed with antique oil and still got movement is the way I think you put it? Bob, antique oil isn't a sealer. I use any kind of shellac, sanding sealer. varnish, water base varnish and I keep applying multiple coats and never had any movement that is noticeable in my turnings. Always seal the outside first cause it dry's much faster than the inside and this is what causes the trouble. Did you ever notice when you varnish the outside of something, it is dry on the outside and still wet inside? Same thing when the moisture is drying and this causes movement deforming , whatever. Get them pores covered. Thanks for your reply and good luck. Mitch

[Steve Schlumpf]

Nice bowl Mitch! Like you - I love working with cherry! Folks are always amazed when I tell them that the wood continues to darken with age! It's one of the main reasons I love it! Plus, it always smells so good!

[curtis rosche]

is that water based poly? when i tried that it cracked, but it was apple, but it was drying for 2 years already, so it wasnt that wet

[Mitchell Cholewinski]

Curtis. I use this method of sealing my turnings and apple is tough because they are usually apple branches that grew under stress. I said sealing wet wood would prevent cracking and bending etc but, damm man, I didn't say sealing wood will bring wood back from the dead. Mitch

[Mitchell Cholewinski]

Steve
Thank you Steve. Yes cherry darkens
with age and some people don't like buying things like cabinets and the color darkens considerably over the years. I used to make cabinets and learned to make sure the customer knew this about cherry before making the cabinets.
Steve, while I am writing you this, I want to congratulate you on the vacuum chuck you made and pictured on this forum. Excellent job Steve. Very impressive.
You changed avatars didn't you. Look younger. Mitch

[Lee DeRaud]

Two things are jumping out at me from this thread:

1. Mitchell is doing end-grain bowls, so they shouldn't warp much (if at all) since the grain is radially symmetric. They can still crack, but what he's doing is keeping them from drying fast enough to do that. It would be interesting to see if it works as well for "normal" (face-grain) bowls.

2. I'm wondering if the alcohol in the shellac (and possibly the solvent in the other finishes) is drawing out and/or displacing the water in the wet wood, just as it does for those who use denatured alcohol to speed the drying of rough-turned pieces.

[Allen Neighbors]

Mitchell, do you apply the coats of sealer while the piece is on the lathe? And what do you use to apply it with?
I may have to give this a try.

[Bob Hallowell]

Two things are jumping out at me from this thread:

1. Mitchell is doing end-grain bowls, so they shouldn't warp much (if at all) since the grain is radially symmetric. They can still crack, but what he's doing is keeping them from drying fast enough to do that. It would be interesting to see if it works as well for "normal" (face-grain) bowls.

2. I'm wondering if the alcohol in the shellac (and possibly the solvent in the other finishes) is drawing out and/or displacing the water in the wet wood, just as it does for those who use denatured alcohol to speed the drying of rough-turned pieces.

Lee,
that's what I was trying to see with my post, he is orienting the blank different then most of us do for bowls and yes on most wood that would stop it from cupping. Mitchel It would be interesting to me if you turned the a bowl with the long grain 90 degs to you ways and finish the way you do to see if there is any movement after 30 days. I do hf with the long grain running with the lathe bed and they don't move much. I will be posting one tommorow after I buff it.

Bob

[Mitchell Cholewinski]

Allen
Thanks for the reply/inquiry buddy.Yes you could put the sealer on while the piece is on the lathe but I mostly take it off and apply whichever sealer I am going to use on this piece with a cheap made in China brush. You could spray if you wanted. For a while I used my hlvp spray gun to spray a bunch of turnings at one time. I went back to the brush since it was less bother.One thing not to do is let the viscosity of the sealer become too heavy. Thin it down a bit and the appearance of the turning will be much better.The secret to success here with this method is to seal seal seal. Don't get lazy and not do it enough and then say it doesn't work. Sealing this way seems like a lot of work but it's not. I do about ten at a time in less than a half hour. After a bunch of coats later I take that turning out of my sealing rotation and declare it finished. I am not saying I have the perfect way to finish turnings Allen but this way works great for me and nothing would make me go to turning half a bowl then wait for 3 months to dry and apply alcohol etc etc etc. ad nauseum.I would honestly go back to flat cabinet work if I had to do that. Sometime anything you do can stop a bowl from cracking or distorting and it occasionally happens to me but I haven't lost a turning that I really care not to. Some woods are much more prone to cracking etc than others and guys who turn and wait get their share of problems too. No method is perfect as long as human factor plays a part in the method. Try it and let us know how you came out. Mitch

[Mitchell Cholewinski]

Lee
Correction here. What keeps the bowls from splitting and moving is them being completely sealed and keeps the inside and outside of the wood drying evenly. There is no fast drying by using alcohol etc. The big reason woods cause trouble is because inside and outside dry at different rates of time. My wood after being sealed is still wet but not exposed to air so it dry's slowly inside and out and eventually is completely dry.When you turn a piece of wood that is wet. Almost immediately it starts to dry to the touch but inside it is still very wet. This is where the trouble starts. You need to get the wood to dry inside and out at the same rate of time or very close. I just posted a picture of a bowl and ne bowl that was turned 11/2 years ago and they are still perfectly free of any problem except they are the turnings of a rank newbie to turning at the time. I have a couple hundred more. If I remember right I only sealed these pieces with no more than 4 coats of clear shellac. Mitch

[Mitchell Cholewinski]

Bob Hallowell , I believe? Bob I am looking forward to seeing the HF you are going to post tomorrow. Not sure what you mean you want me to do to see if it moves. Explain it again and I will be glad to try it to see what transpires. This thread is wearing me out. I have this same discussion on 3 of five forums I frequent. Do you want me to lay the long grain of the wood from the headstock to the tailstock then turn? Mitch

[Craig Powers]

Mitch,
Not to answer for Bob, but the way I read it, he is wondering, as am I, if you would have the same results turning a face-grain bowl as you do turning
end grain. Despite the method used to seal, grain orientation matters. We're talking about two different animals. It'll be interesting. Thanks for all of the info.

[Bob Hallowell]

Mitch,
Not to answer for Bob, but the way I read it, he is wondering, as am I, if you would have the same results turning a face-grain bowl as you do turning
end grain. Despite the method used to seal, grain orientation matters. We're talking about two different animals. It'll be interesting. Thanks for all of the info.

Yep that's what I meant. So answer away

[Mitchell Cholewinski]

Bob
Sounds like this is turning into a challenge to me and this wasn't my intention when I first wrote my method of finishing and drying my turnings. I wanted to let the turners who might be interested in my method, know how I finished my work, successfully. Let me just say this and that ends it. I don't care how you turn the piece, endgrain or facegrain this works for me. If your skeptical, try it and see how it works for you. My thanks to all you gentlemen who replied to me on this thread. I have a lot of pictures posted on all the forums, check them out and see if they look ok or if they look cracked or bent etc. Mitch

[Bob Hallowell]

Bob
Sounds like this is turning into a challenge to me and this wasn't my intention when I first wrote my method of finishing and drying my turnings. I wanted to let the turners who might be interested in my method, know how I finished my work, successfully. Let me just say this and that ends it. I don't care how you turn the piece, endgrain or facegrain this works for me. If your skeptical, try it and see how it works for you. My thanks to all you gentlemen who replied to me on this thread. I have a lot of pictures posted on all the forums, check them out and see if they look ok or if they look cracked or bent etc. Mitch

Mitchell,
First sorry I never meant any disrespect with my post, I just didn't understand how it worked. I tried to word most my post tackfully but I am not a very tackfull person. You bowls look nice good job.

Bob

[Mitchell Cholewinski]

Bob
Thank you Bob. You are a gentleman if nothing else. I didn't take anything you say as disrespectful and fully understand your asking me how this works. I am just trying to share this with you guys and anyone who feels like I do about waiting for 3 months or so for a piece of wood to dry. I posted this same thread three places and I am taking a beating from some guys, so I am getting weary of this so I guess I sounded off a little. Friends? Mitch

[Dusty Sawyer]

I like how the simple design of the form brings out the figure of the wood.

[Mitchell Cholewinski]

Dusty
Thanks Dusty, I agree the form and figure make the entire bowl look good. I only wish I had turned this bowl a little thinner, but at that time in my turning career, I wasn't into turning thin bowls. later on I turned several and the results were the same. the cherry grain made the bowl what it is. Mitch

[Cary Swoveland]

I, for one, certainly intend to try this method. Aside from the proof-of-the-pudding results, it makes intuitive sense to me. Green wood is stable before you turn it. If you turn it in one go, there's not time enough for the relative moisture content in different parts of the wood to change very much, so if you can seal it well enough, it should dry slowly enough to maintain a relatively uniform moisture distribution, thereby avoiding cracking and twisting.

As an alternative to applying sealers, I'm wondering if you couldn't just put the turned piece in an air-tight plastic bag with a valve of some kind to control drying speed.

Cary