Grizzly vs Steel City

[Norm Roberts]

I am in the market for a 3hp cabinet saw. How does Grizzly (G1023SL) stack up against Steel City? (Home hobbyist who wants a saw that will still be running 20 years from now without breaking the bank.) Years ago I would not have thought twice about Grizzly, but have read a lot of positive comments over the past year. Steel City is new and seems to be doing well, will it be arround long term? Is it worth spending a few hundred more and buying the Unisaw or is it living on a reputation earned long ago?

I guess I am just looking for some reassurance on the right direction to go. Any help, thoughts or personal experince would be helpful. Confused in Indianapolis!

[Josh Rudolph]

Norm,

I was in your shoes a few months ago. I definitely want something that will last me for the long haul. From what I could gather, both "saws" are made overseas. This always leaves the possibility of even being made in the same plant. So with that, if I were to choose right now, I would be going with the Grizzly.

The Steel City started from understandable frustrations with Delta. I certainly hope that they will be around for the long haul to give us more options for future purchases. I have not heard of anything bad with the company or CS and the problems I have heard with Grizzly they have always ultimately fixed them. Grizzly is also moving much more volume than Steel City.

If I were to consider a Unisaw, it would have to be a 20+ year old one. You can search the forums here and find many people voicing various frustrations with Delta. Even with a 20+ year old one, you will eventually need a replacement part. My understanding is that getting replacement parts is quite the journey. :mad: I have only dealt with the Porter Cable side of CS...didn't take forever but definitely felt it could have been faster (3 weeks for an in stock part)since it was coming from just 1 state away.

Before you make a decision, have you considered the Jet cabinet saw? Just another option to consider that may be about the same price point for you. Jet (WMH tool group) also has top notch CS.

I have chosen to save and wait on my table saw purchase. Like I said, I want it to be a lifetime purchase. I consider myself to always be safety conscious, yet I still end up with a busted knuckle some way or another. So I will be waiting until I can afford a SawStop. The price difference is my insurance.

In the interest of being fair I own:
Jet - Contractor Saw, Dust Collector
Delta - Band Saw, Drill Press, Midi Lathe
Grizzly - Planer, Band Saw
Sawstop - nothing yet :D

Good luck with your decision, try and buy once...keep us posted with what you end up with.

Josh

[Paul Ryan]

I recently bought a steel city granite saw, the 3hp model. I was in the same situation your are. Both are saws have generally very positive reviews. I am still worried about the long term situation of steel city but I decided I would take the chance.
I choose the steel city due to what I have heard is superb customer service, there is a distrubutor with in 50 miles for me, and it came with a riving knife for less money than a comparable grizzly. As far as the granite goes I chose it because my shop is an unheated steel garage in southern, mn. So far I have used the saw very little. Summer is here and my honey do list is about 5 pages, with no wood projects.
From the little I have used the saw I can say the fence is awesome, 1 finger movement. Dust collection with my small 1 hp delta DC is very good. My grips are considerable vibration on start up and shut down. When the saw is running it is nice and smooth, but when it starts up it knocks the nickle down right away, and the same when you hit the stop button. This is the 1st saw I have used with a riving knife and I will never go back. It is so nice having that protection there with out the blade guard in the way. It is super simple to remove the knife.
In my opinion if you have a steel city distrubtor close by, buy a saw with the riving knife you will be happy you did. The only 3hp grizzly I could find with riving knife would have run me $1800 to get the saw to my home. My local store is selling the steel city with the a 3hp motor saw with steel wings and the riving knife for $1200. That is my .02.

[Randal Cobb]

I recently went through the same dilemma. I opted for the Steel City. While the Grizzly is a great saw, I couldn't find much difference in the interior (trunions, gears, motor, etc.) between the two I compared. The big difference I see is the paint-job and the table itself. I would have preferred to wait and get the granite top, but, I got the titanium top and haven't looked back. The top seems to feel smoother to the touch (could just be my imagination) and it definitely doesn't rust as easily as my other cast iron top machines; and this is good considering I sweat a good bit. The fences are fairly comparable as well, but I prefer the "feel" of the Steel City Industrial fence. Given the few differences between the machines and the difference in price, I opted for the less expensive saw with the (IMHO) better top and don't regret it in the least. I'm sure the saw will be one I can leave to my kids when I pass on.

[John Thompson]

Both are excellent saws.. but I would give the edge to Steel City if it has their Industrial Fence. The Griz fence is OK IMO.. and I have a Biesemeyer on my Uni-saw I though was the best fence on the market. Well... until Steel City came out with their Industrial fence. I'd make a sway any time.. any place.

BTW.. the standard T square on some lower model SC's is similiar to the Griz fence and as I stated OK. But.. if you nudge a SC Industrial fence, be prepared to run to the end of the rail to catch it before it launchs into the next county. :)

Good luck...

Sarge..

[Nancy Laird]

Norm,

From what I could gather, both "saws" are made overseas. This always leaves the possibility of even being made in the same plant. Josh

Josh, the Steel City machines are being built in a company-owned factory in China, not in one of the cookie-cutter plants in Taiwan. SC chose to build their own plant to maintain more oversight on the production process and also to keep some of their proprietary designs from being copied by other manufacturers. (For the record, that plant is also producing Orion-branded machines.) They also own the quarry where the granite is being taken, and I understand that they have an individual on staff there who checks all the granite before it goes into the production process to ensure that it is suitable for the task.

I have to agree with Sarge about the SC fence. I've tried the Delta, PM, Jet, Woodtek, and SC fences on machines lined up in the store, and the SC fence is, by far, the smoothest to work, and when it's set, it stays where it's put. Even with our Biesmeyer fence, we have to nudge it to get it on the mark where we want it--not so with the SC, it locks in and stays locked.

In the interest of fairness, I've not ever seen a Grizzly saw, much less tried one out, but in comparison with Delta, PM, and Jet, the SC wins hands down.

Nancy

[Dave MacArthur]

It's good to have two company reps for SC on the forums too, you can always rely on Sarge and Nancy Laird to chime in with inside info when you have SC questions. Not sure if they work for the company in some regard, or are just friends with the owners, but both have written some extensive and useful posts on SC equipment-- if you do a search on their names plus steel city you'll find a lot of comparison info. I've not seen the SC and Griz table saws side by side, but have seen the band saws together, and they both looked very good. I personally would buy either of them before I bought a new Unisaw; I've only heard good things about customer service for both. Both companies seem very energized and interested in improving their machines.

[Rick Levine]

I know Nancy personally and to the best of my knowledge she does not work for SC. She does, however know a good product when she sees one. Dave, her husband works for Woodworker's Supply and they sell them. I purchased a SC planer and jointer at his suggestion and couldn't be happier. When I received my jointer it was supposed to have built-in wheels but it was apparently an early production model and when I called their CS they prompty sent a replacement base. It even included a new motor so I wouldn't have to reinstall it. They even let me keep the old base and motor (I now have a spare for whatever I need it for).

As for Delta, I bought the Unisaw at the same time as the jointer and planer and couldn't be happier with it either. I don't know why so many people have had trouble with their CS. I haven't. I have had a few issues with some of the parts but their CS has bent over backwards to fix them. As an example, I have a Delta 14" lathe and when the switch broke. I called Delta CS and discovered that the switch was out of stock and backordered. The rep took it upon herself to call all of the factory stores in the US and found one in another state. Not only did she find it she had them overnight it to me. Normally, they just ship via ground but to make sure I got it they paid for overnight delivery. So both SC and Delta in my experience have excellent CS.

[Josh Rudolph]

Josh, the Steel City machines are being built in a company-owned factory in China, not in one of the cookie-cutter plants in Taiwan. SC chose to build their own plant to maintain more oversight on the production process and also to keep some of their proprietary designs from being copied by other manufacturers. (For the record, that plant is also producing Orion-branded machines.) They also own the quarry where the granite is being taken, and I understand that they have an individual on staff there who checks all the granite before it goes into the production process to ensure that it is suitable for the task.
Nancy

Nancy,

I did not know all of this useful information. I am sure it has been said before on the forums, but honestly I did not go digging.

I wonder why SC does not make it a point to outline this stuff on their website? It is certainly information that I would consider to be useful when deciding on a piece of equipment. The website only talks about an "extensive network of the best suppliers and manufacturing connections in Taiwan and mainland China."

Thanks again for the useful information. It definitely changes my thoughts on SC.

Josh

[John Thompson]

It's good to have two company reps for SC on the forums too, you can always rely on Sarge and Nancy Laird to chime in with inside info when you have SC questions. Not sure if they work for the company in some regard, or are just friends with the owners, but both have written some extensive and useful posts on SC equipment-- if you do a search on their names plus steel city you'll find a lot of comparison info. I've not seen the SC and Griz table saws side by side, but have seen the band saws together, and they both looked very good. I personally would buy either of them before I bought a new Unisaw; I've only heard good things about customer service for both. Both companies seem very energized and interested in improving their machines.

I don't work for Steel City.. For that matter I am currently un-employed and debating retirement period or taking a part time job as I don't necessarily need a full time. I don't get any discounts for talking about their machines as I was accused when I first came to this forum.

I am friends with the owners and crew in Mursfreesboro. But.. I would never taut their machines based on just that. I won't taut anything I don't feel is well made... period. I do know the machines well as I make it a point to know machines and have for years. The SC machines are extremely well designed and well made in their class of Pacific Rim.

I go to all the IWF show in Atlanta and many other WW Shows comparing their machines and others as there are many on-line that don't get the opportunity to see machines to form a personal opinion. I just let them know what I know about anything they happen to be debating over buying. I do know the now defunct Bridge-wood and York-craft line and Curt Wilke who brought them into the US under Wilke Machinery.

I have access to all with the exception of Grizzly which I have to see at IWF and when I visit the St. Louis show-room. The Grizzly TS.. jointer and at this point BS's are very good. That wasn't always true of their BS's.. but Mr. Grizzly keeps digging and keeps heading in the right direction IMO.

I do have a black granite fence on my 8" jointer that Scott Box (SC President_ brought by for me to field test as been mentioned here on numerous occasions. I get no money or company frills from doing so... just the fence which was one of the 3 original proto-types for free to do so and the satisfaction of working with an excellent group of tool designers that don't know what quitting time is. :)

Regards...

Sarge..

[Dave MacArthur]

Ahh sorry, I stand corrected. However, my suggestion is still a good one--both these two have written some good posts on SC gear, and have gotten hands on on some of it, and I'd recommend using their names combined with steel city as a search criteria to find good threads with solid content on steel city tools.

I did see a granite topped SC table saw in the showroom, which I really wanted to get inside and look at, but sitting right next to it was a SawStop, and I got distracted, and ran out of time...all I can say personally is that both had similar and nice adjustment feel.

[Dave Lehnert]

I was talking to a large dealer a short time ago and I asked the very question about Steel City being around for the long term for parts etc....
His opinion was he would be more concerned with Delta than SC. He does not like what he is seeing with Delta. Seems to be lagging behind in new tools. He has way more Delta tools on display than SC so I did not feel he was telling a story to sell tools.
As far as SC making their own tools in a company owned factory, In my uneducated opinion, that may hold true for some but their 18" bandsaw looked like it was made from the same mold as the JET setting next to it BUT did have some notable differences on the inside. Like I said I HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING FOR SURE.

[John Thompson]

"In my uneducated opinion, that may hold true for some but their 18" bandsaw looked like it was made from the same mold as the JET setting next to it BUT did have some notable differences on the inside. Like I said I HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING FOR SURE"... Dave Lenhart

Dave, while I have a moment up from the shop.. I will address the looks like Jet statement. When the SC line was first introduced. I also thought it was a Jet with a different paint job. So did a lot of others as that is not uncommon to have the same manufacturer using the specs from a specific purchaser.

I was shopping BS's at the time and had looked at the Jet. I was not impressed with the 18" and not much more with their 20". I was impressed with the MM 16 at that time and put a $500 deposit on one as they were out of stock at the moment.

But.. to satisfy my curiousity I looked at the Steel City 18" at IWF here in Atlanta. As soon as I opened the upper case and saw the dual set of large tension springs, I knew it wasn't a Jet. A few weeks latter I went to Redmond and Son Machinery here in Atlanta and compared them side by side. Only then did I know the many differences and they are quite numerous.

I did a review of the 18" BS on FWW's forum of which I have been a member for years. Just to let everyone know about the new machines that are not able to see them personally. I was impressed with the entire line of Steel City and especially of the Bandsaws. Impressed enough that I canceled my deposit with MM and purchased the SC 18".

That's how I got involved with thier line and know quite a bit about it. I was asked by Steel City to field test their new black granite fence on my SC 8 jointer just after it was introduced in the LV Show a year or so ago. I jumped at the chance even though I am not paid by Steel City in any form. I will back any machine if I feel it is quality as I do say with the Milwaukee 3 1/2 H and 2 1/4 HP Combo routers. Fantastic in both cases.

So.. bottom line is the SC BS is not a Jet look-alike and Steel City did purchase a plant in China to do their own machines. And IMO.. do that very well in the price range they compete in.

Regards...

Sarge..

Back to the shop where I have to produce quality just because "she" said so. :D

[Simon Dupay]

IMO save for the Unisaw although their not the same saw they were 20 years ago their still better then an import any day of the week. to me steel city is doing the same thing ever one else is doing, their machines are the same as the rest of the Taiwan/Chinese junk on the market. BTW both saws are copys of the unisaw

[John Thompson]

IMO save for the Unisaw although their not the same saw they were 20 years ago their still better then an import any day of the week. to me steel city is doing the same thing ever one else is doing, their machines are the same as the rest of the Taiwan/Chinese junk on the market. BTW both saws are copys of the unisaw

Every U.S. saw is a basic copy of the original Uni-saw, Simon. And some of the Euro saws also for that matter.

And there is a big difference in the way the trunnions are set up on a Uni-saw as opposed to the Steel City junk. I have a Uni-saw.

You might explain to everyone just what the major differences on those trunnions are so they will understand why the Steel City is junk in your opinion like all the other Taiwanese/China junk models when you made the comparison to come to that conclussion.

[Dave Lehnert]

IMO save for the Unisaw although their not the same saw they were 20 years ago their still better then an import any day of the week. to me steel city is doing the same thing ever one else is doing, their machines are the same as the rest of the Taiwan/Chinese junk on the market. BTW both saws are copys of the unisaw

Just a few years ago when shopping for a cabinet saw I was thinking of the JET but wanted to check out the Delta Unisaw because of all the praise. My dealer just happened to have the two side by side. Took me about 2 min. to rule the Delta out and went for the JET. Just by looks alone you could tell the Delta was not the same saw as years ago. Have you ever looked at the Saw Stop? Even without the break feature,that is one serious built saw. No way is the Delta close to that.
I also talked to a very knowledgeable sales rep from Delta. I asked him about the saw being made in the USA and he danced all around that question.

[Bob Hallowell]

I bought a Ti topped deluxe steel city from one of the founders in Pittsburgh a few months ago. I love it! it's beefy and here for the long haul. But I think the Grizz saw is very good also.

Bob

[Luther Oswalt]

Josh, the Steel City machines are being built in a company-owned factory in China, not in one of the cookie-cutter plants in Taiwan. SC chose to build their own plant to maintain more oversight on the production process and also to keep some of their proprietary designs from being copied by other manufacturers. (For the record, that plant is also producing Orion-branded machines.) They also own the quarry where the granite is being taken, and I understand that they have an individual on staff there who checks all the granite before it goes into the production process to ensure that it is suitable for the task.

I have to agree with Sarge about the SC fence. I've tried the Delta, PM, Jet, Woodtek, and SC fences on machines lined up in the store, and the SC fence is, by far, the smoothest to work, and when it's set, it stays where it's put. Even with our Biesmeyer fence, we have to nudge it to get it on the mark where we want it--not so with the SC, it locks in and stays locked.

In the interest of fairness, I've not ever seen a Grizzly saw, much less tried one out, but in comparison with Delta, PM, and Jet, the SC wins hands down.

Nancy

Nancy, I will throw this question to you since you brought the Orion connection up ...I was looking at the Parts Numbers for Sears Drill Presses and then I looked at the Parts Numbers for the same DP parts in a Steel City Parts listing and they are the same ... or at least the diagrams and parts numbers are the same! Does this mean they are infact the same machines and Steel City is making Sears machines? Sorry for stealing the thread ...
Leo

[Nancy Laird]

Leo, I don't know about the part numbers being the same - I haven't compared the numbers. However, as I said, Steel City is making Orion-branded machines in the same plant - if Sears is selling Orion machines, the machines are being made for Sears. If the part numbers are the same for the SC and Orion DP, that would not be unusual, as many many parts are interchangeable among different machine brands, I would suspect.

But I am sure they are NOT the "same" machine -

[Simon Dupay]

Just a few years ago when shopping for a cabinet saw I was thinking of the JET but wanted to check out the Delta Unisaw because of all the praise. My dealer just happened to have the two side by side. Took me about 2 min. to rule the Delta out and went for the JET. Just by looks alone you could tell the Delta was not the same saw as years ago. Have you ever looked at the Saw Stop? Even without the break feature,that is one serious built saw. No way is the Delta close to that.
I also talked to a very knowledgeable sales rep from Delta. I asked him about the saw being made in the USA and he danced all around that question.
yes, I have used the saw stop, never had so seen so many problems with a saw; belts,bearings,motor,gears are just some of the things that went bad on it in comparison the Unisaw we had before had no problems. The trunnions on both the Griz and steel city are copys of a Unisaw trunnion, I said "junk" because I LOVE US made machines, have you ever used one? I've never used a bad us made machine can't say the same about Asian made ones.