Farmers Market

[Joe Pelonio]

Here in our city they started a new Farmer's Market yesterday. We went to check it out, thinking of possibly having a stand there next year.

It runs May-October, and is located next to city hall with a panoramic view of Seattle in clear weather. I was surprised to see how few vendors they had, and the kinds of items were not what I would expect to sell well. In fact, watching as people left, some were buying coffee drinks and food, but no one was carrying a bag with any merchandise. We were hoping for some good, reasonably priced produce, but the only vendor with that was selling tomatoes at $5.95/lb!

My immediate thought was that some of the laser gift items, marquetry and such would have gone over much better than anything else there. I checked the website and found that they still want more vendors, but then I saw the rules.

$30 application fee, then $25/day or 7% of gross, whichever is greater. That seems fair.

Then this:

"Artisans/crafters must create with their own hands the products they offer for sale, using a majority of tools and equipment which require skills, handling and guidance by the crafter. Crafters should incorporate materials produced in Washington as much as possible. We will be giving preference for Sammamish community artisans. (in other words, automated machine-made products are not allowed)"

So to me that means that laser products, even veneer inlay work which involves hand gluing would not be allowed, since a machine cuts the veneer and etches out the substrate. I may contact them to clarify.

Anyone run into anything like this before?


They also have a provision for a business to have an "advertising" booth.

$125/day and you are not allowed to sell, only to display products and speak to people about your services. There are 8 spaces available per day, and apparently you can just choose one or a few times to do it, no commitment to the entire summer, so that may be a worthwhile option
if I wait for good weather when there would be more traffic.

Anyone else done an advertising booth like this before, and if so, any success?

[Pete Simmons]

using a majority of tools and equipment which require skills, handling and guidance by the crafter.

Joe - I think a Laser qualifies for that statement. Give a rookie a laser, some wood and some veneer and I do not think you will end up with some of the beautiful inlayed art work you see displayed here by some of the laser folks.

If you want to sell 10,000 small wood cards with a star shaped hole in them, then they are correct to limit these types of items. Also all the small cheap gifts you can buy on line made in China are the type of thing they should keep out of their market.

Can a person with a table saw use a fence? Or is he expected to freehand everything.

How about Artists as in paint - yes they make some fine originals but they also sell many prints. Where is the line for that??

Yes I would want to keep the junk out of my craftshow but some of their rules seem like they want to keep everybody out.

Good luck and keep us posted as you learn more.

[Dan Hintz]

$30 application fee, then $25/day or 7% of gross, whichever is greater. That seems fair.
You think so? I don't think my pay to them should be based upon how much my products cost... charge me a flat fee, period. $30 app fee is reasonable, $25/day is fine, charge me for any electricity I might use for lighting/equipment, etc. But should the guy selling handmade diamond jewelry be charged 1,000 times more for his booth than the guy selling wooden barrels simply because the item material costs more? I think not. It sounds like the person making the rules wasn't thinking beyond "Let's get as much profit from everyone that we can."

[Joe Pelonio]

I see your point, Dan, but then in this case there is nothing that expensive.
One person I spoke to said that they have specifically tried to exclude vendors selling expensive jewelry, hot tubs and the like that are typical of fairs. Still, there is a big difference between a $3 hot dog and a $500 painting.

I should look into the details, but thought the revenue was to help defray the cost of running it, with the balance made up by the Chamber of Commerce sponsorship, so no one should actually profit from it.

[Craig Hogarth]

Joe, Washington State is very strict with their farmer's market guidelines. The laser is not considered crafter controlled. Basic rule of thumb is that if the majority of the work can be done with your hands in your pocket, it's considered automated.

My grandpa has been doing farmer markets down in Kelso/Longview for about 40 years now. He explained it to me that in the late 80s when computers were getting affordable, that farmer markets were getting inundated with computer generated crafts and a blanket rule was set in place.

[Pete Simmons]

Craig - I would still say that on some of the more fancy inlays most of the work is done with hands out of pocket. The laser cutting the material is just the start of the project.

I guess part of my theory is if that one is priced at $200 how much if I buy 1000? Most of the things I make I tell them my prices go up not down for quantity.

[Joe Pelonio]

Yes, my hands are needed to glue up, sand, and finish inlay work so it might qualify but them I can't do enough to have a decent inventory and still manage to keep up with the other work, even when it's slow on the sign
side.

[Dan Hintz]

Cut what you need to make a box before the show, then spend your free time at the actual show putting the pieces together... many will be none the wiser, and it will still get you a forum to display other laser wares.

If all else fails, slap an Atari joystick to the side of the laser and pay some 10-year-old $3/hr to jerk the stick back and forth in time to the laser... yet again, many will be none the wiser, and think of how many tips that kid could make for his impressive artistic skills with just a joystick!

[Jim Huston]

If you want to be that show then i suggest submitting some photos of your work to the organizers, similar to a "Juried" art show. I think if the see your work and are smart they will fall all over themselves to get you to come!
JimH

[Todd Schwartz]

Joe - this brings up a very interesting and a much debated question, more on that in a minute - first of all the Des Moines Farmers Market is one of the largest in the country - it draws between 20,000 to 30,000 people on a Saturday morning and has about 200 vendors. Although 80% of the vendors are providing "true farmer's products", they do allow 20% of the vendors to be non farmer's market products.

Below is their definition for an Artist/Crafter:

Artist/Craft Vendor
Defined as a vendor whose product is home-crafted, personally designed and created by the vendor. Production materials optimally come from regional sources or are fabricated by vendors themselves.
Items included in this category include; crafts, artwork, inedible such as herbal products, personal care and beauty products.
Which brings up the much debated question of "hand crafted". I personally believe that your marquetry work is beyond a doubt a hand crafted item. Where does one draw the line? Can I use power tools? Can I use guides on these tools? Can I use templates. Can I use a power sprayer for my finishing work? One can see how this discussion can go off the deep end in a hurry.

My bottom line - commercial products are one that are mass produced start to finish with very little to no human intervention. Handcrafted are what a lot of us do here on the Creek whether with a laser, plasma table or CNC router - use our talents to design, manipulate, produce and finish custom small run products.

Be curious to what others think.

Todd

[Joe Pelonio]

Jim and Todd, you both make good points.

We go regularly to the Issaquah and Redmond markets on Saturdays, both much bigger than our little new one. I considered ours because it was smaller, less than a mile away, and would meet and sell to my own town.

With Todd's mention of Des Moines I decided to check the other two. Each is only about 5-6 miles away.

Both require that the crafts be made in WA and they screen them, so they would see the quality and uniqueness, then accept or reject. A more sensible approach.

Redmond charges $60 annual fee, $50 annual maintenance assessment, a city license fee of $4 plus $25/day, no percentage.

Issaquah charges $35/annual fee plus $25/day, no percentage.

Hmmm.

[Craig Hogarth]

Craig - I would still say that on some of the more fancy inlays most of the work is done with hands out of pocket. The laser cutting the material is just the start of the project.


Yeah, I agree on the marquetry part. I'm sure the farmer's market would probably agree to some point as well. I think the thing they want to keep out would be stuff similar to laserbuzz or cnc address signs (vs. hand routed).

But ultimately it comes down to the market's decision. I tried to get into one last year and my work was not considered hand crafted. But again, that wasn't inlay.

[Anthony Welch]

We did a juried art show a couple of weeks ago. I entered a few of my pens to be juried and purchased a booth space for my other pens, lasered boxes, dog pic frames and displayed other items that had photos laser engraved.

They allowed my pens, but asked if I could bring samples of the other stuff the day before so they could see them and judge them as appropriate or not. When they saw them, they OK'ed them. They explained that they were not wanting someone that purchased a bunch of manufactured stuff and selling it off as crafts.

[Al Popowski]

I do a juried market in Sequim. I make boxes and turn Pens and other woodworking, but then I laser designs on these products and they sell a lot better with designs on them. Had no problem with the jury process. The fee is $10 to $20 for the day depending on sales.

[AL Ursich]

We have a Local Farmers Market and it is even run my my Cousin.... I tried to get in and was turned down.... My Sears CarveWright made stuff is too.... Commercial.... Well I tried.....

Was also turned down for a local Audubon Craft Show a big Annual attraction in our are. Same... Too Machine made.....

I did find my market in some Craft Shows but the Economy will play havoc with that this year. Focusing on less than $20.00 tourist stuff.... Wine and Quilt racks were priced too high last year.

I wonder what they would say about a reverse Laser Engraved then color filled mirror?......

AL

[Joe Pelonio]

I do a juried market in Sequim. I make boxes and turn Pens and other woodworking, but then I laser designs on these products and they sell a lot better with designs on them. Had no problem with the jury process. The fee is $10 to $20 for the day depending on sales.
The laser as the last bit of the process seems a lot more like what they are looking for. I'll be that way Sunday, do you know if the road to Hurricane Ridge is open now?

[Dan Hintz]

Al, the fact you had a large number of racks waiting to be assembled may have had something to do with being turned down. You have to let them believe this is a hand-crafted item, and most have a (irrational) belief that hand-crafted items can only be made in small quantities for great prices.

[Joe Pelonio]

I have an update.

I spoke to the director of this and one other farmer's market yesterday, when she needed some name badges and signs made. When I talked about some of the items I do with the laser, especially the inlay work, she was very interested. In fact, she has been considering a lower fee to get more local artists to take a booth. The use of the laser is not a problem, they just don't want imported, mass produced items, or even local ones where someone pushes a button and the item pops out (whatever that means). She would also love to have me do some stained glass work, especially sun catchers, which she thinks would sell very well. Unfortunately you must commit to weekly all summer and it's too late for me to come up with that much stock, but I'll definitely think about it for next year and work hard all winter when the sign side slows down.

[Robert Ray]

We go regularly to the Issaquah and Redmond markets on Saturdays


Off topic, but I visited Issaquah a few years ago, and took a few pictures of the train station, and just had to build one. It's a beautiful town!

Here is a picture of the model I did in 1:220 scale:
http://raybob.boche.net/projects/images/p915f.jpg

[Joe Pelonio]

Off topic, but I visited Issaquah a few years ago, and took a few pictures of the train station, and just had to build one. It's a beautiful town!

Here is a picture of the model I did in 1:220 scale:
http://raybob.boche.net/projects/images/p915f.jpg

Wow, that looks just like it! Did you make it to the old railroad museum, depot and "graveyard" up in North Bend"?

http://www.trainmuseum.org/SnoqualmieDepot.asp

We're about 6 miles from the Issaquah station. Funny thing, we used to live in Castro Valley, and I went to Cal State Hayward, the last two years worked in Union City.

[Robert Ray]

Oh yes! I rode in one of the SP&S passenger cars behind #201, and I still plan to build a model of the Snoqualamie depot for my collection.

The old Northern Pacific Railroad is my passion, even if aquired from other railroads like the Seattle, Lake Shore and Eastern. I visited everything Northern Pacific related while I was up there. I even rode a 9 hour fan train from the King St station up to Cle Elum, and back on the old NP Stampede Pass line.

I took photos of everything, all equipment on both museum's properties, the structures inside and out, etc. I think my trip to the Seattle area was the best vacation I ever had! :D

[Ron Dunn]

Joe, how far is that from Seattle? (in time, not distance)

I'll be there in a few weeks for an employer's conference ... looks like a great place to visit.

[Joe Pelonio]

Joe, how far is that from Seattle? (in time, not distance)

I'll be there in a few weeks for an employer's conference ... looks like a great place to visit.
Around here with our traffic that trip can be anywhere from 30 minutes to over an hour, depending on time of day and day of week. The I90 bridge is never as bad as the 520 though, so from Seattle just avoid the evening commute time when it backs up from Bellevue through Issaquah. If you do go, be sure to stop at Snoqualmie Falls, with the record snow they are spectacular and just a few blocks from the Railroad area.

Send me an e-mail or pm if you need any other info about the area.

[Al Popowski]

I guess it depends on the market, I am at Sequim and we have 2 laser vendors here. We both have different items and we are juried, as long as we are making or offering custom items we are okay.
So far this year thing are slow for most vendors here.

[Joe Pelonio]

I guess it depends on the market, I am at Sequim and we have 2 laser vendors here. We both have different items and we are juried, as long as we are making or offering custom items we are okay.
So far this year thing are slow for most vendors here.
Do you do the Open Aire Market? I've been there many times but not for 3-4 years. They used to call it the Saturday Market as I recall.

[Al Popowski]

Not sure haven't been there latley.
They had snow the last few weeks, but don't know how much they got.
You may be able to check on line.

[Joe Pelonio]

Not sure haven't been there latley.
They had snow the last few weeks, but don't know how much they got.
You may be able to check on line.
Too late on Hurricane Ridge, we went the weekend before last. The roads were fine, though some had slid off here and there making it one lane. Just past the visitor center the road was closed with 15' of snow still on it so we couldn't go for the hike, since we don't have snow shoes. We ended up hiking up to Marymere falls at Lake Crescent instead.