Just a silly question.

[Nancy Laird]

If I'm running multiples of a job (nine sheets of the same thing), can I reboot my computer while the job is running without messing up the run? In other words, after a job is sent to the laser, does the computer still have to be up and running?

Nancy

[Joe Pelonio]

I don't know about yours, but with my Epilog, I could take the computer and throw it out the window and keep running the laser once the job is in it's memory.

The only issue is with a huge file that takes a while to go over, or if your laser talks back to the computer, most don't.

[Darren Null]

Seconded. Once the print file is sent, that's it. Turn the puter off and it won't make a difference

[Nancy Laird]

Thanks. Now I can re-boot without a problem, I think.

[Jim Good]

Nancy,

Most lasers, probably all of them, have some internal memory that stores your file either permanently or at least until you turn the computer off. So, once your laser has read in your file, the computer is not in the loop.

Jim

[Darren Null]

Oh yeah- there's a bit of a 'however' to my earlier statement.

There's 2 ways of sending a print file to your laser- directly and through Windows' print queue. Directly, and when the 'sending' box has disappeared in CorelDraw it's in your laser. If it's through a print queue there may be some additional time while windows does....well whatever it feels like for a while.

On my machine, there's an indication that the file has arrived in the little screen on the front. I wait for that to show up before turning the computer off.

[Lee DeRaud]

Most lasers, probably all of them, have some internal memory that stores your file either permanently or at least until you turn the computer off.Definitely not true for the ULS VL series machines: the buffering/spooling for them is done by the driver on the PC end. For higher-end ULS machines (like Nancy's M-series), I'm not sure.

[Ed Lang]

I have a ULS M-300 and after the print job is "in" the laser, the computer is not needed.

[Lee DeRaud]

I have a ULS M-300 and after the print job is "in" the laser, the computer is not needed.Ding! We have a winner!!:D
(Or at least a definitive answer.:cool:)

To elaborate on my previous post: it's neither possible nor desireable to generalize about laser machine features between different model lines by the same manufacturer, much less machines from different manufacturers. (And I'm not even going to think about what happens when model/firmware/driver upgrades are thrown into the mix.:eek:)

[Darren Null]

Do you know- it never occurred to me that a laser manufacturer would be mingy enough to NOT have an inbuilt buffer in the machine.

Live & learn.

[Scott Shepherd]

Do you know- it never occurred to me that a laser manufacturer would be mingy enough to NOT have an inbuilt buffer in the machine.

Live & learn.

Darren, you're looking at it backwards. My new PLS from ULS doesn't have a buffer, the system runs off of the computer. You don't think that's right, but guess what? Every time my driver gets updated, so does my laser. Keeps the machine current all the time rather than buying something and it starts going obsolete the moment it's stuck on the truck.

Also, when you have a machine that has a buffer and runs from that, if you tweak settings at the machine, and don't go back and save them, then they are lost forever. Running off the computer means when you make changes at the machine, they are all updated automatically on the control (and stored). I wouldn't trade this type of system for any other. I love it and would never go back to a buffer type machine.

[Darren Null]

I fail to follow. The buffer is just a bit of memory on the machine to store the current print job (and a queue of others, maybe, depending on they type of machine/amount of memory).

I can save settings on the computer with the printer driver...although I usually use my ninja skills per job rather than bothering with saving a bunch of profiles I may never need again.

I can't really comment on driver updates- GCC don't seem to be too keen on that for vintage machines like mine. But the one I have works well.

As far as I can see, the only advantage to running a bufferless machine would be the ability to change and tweak settings mid-job, but I can't really think of any circumstances where that would be a good idea.

The advantage of having a buffer is that you don't have to run your computer the whole time a job is running. Good for your electricity bill. And doubly important in my case because I'm having a heat-death problem on the laptop that I use to feed the laser. It's fair to say that ATM without a buffer, I would only be able to do very small jobs.

I may be missing something here, but when the job lands in the buffer, there's no more tweaking to be done. Speed/power/colours are all set, and all that remains are lasery things like focusing, positioning and hitting the 'go' button.

[Scott Shepherd]

Darren, so when you send every job over, the settings are perfect every time?

Not me. I send them over as an educated guess and I tweak them once it's running if I need to (for new materials). On a buffered system, that "tweak" is on the laser, so if you want to save the new settings, you have to open the print driver back up and change the settings and then save it. On the one that runs off the computer, all "on the fly" changes are saved to the original job file.

I know it's hard to follow if you've never seen it, but having come from a buffered machine and going to this type machine, I can say with 100% conviction that it's saved me a ton of time and a pile of cash. I wouldn't go back to the other type after seeing this and I'd be willing to bet that pile of cash I saved that most all of the manufacturers are heading that direction.

Trust me, it's not someone trying to be cheap and avoid a buffer, it's a company who believes that it's a better way to make a machine, where the system stays current all the time instead of becoming more outdated with each new day.

[Darren Null]

Of course my settings are perfect every time. Ninja skills and all that.

Oh alright, it's a fair cop. Maybe not *ABSOLUTELY* perfect. But I've given up changing settings mid-job. In the early days I trashed some quite expensive materials doing that.

With a new material and with no spare bit to test on, I err on the side of caution. And if it's wrong it's *EVENLY WRONG* and usually underdone and can be sorted with another burn. Quite often just by hitting the 'go' button again.

[Peck Sidara]

I think there are pros and cons to both methods. None of which are superior to another and is dependent upon your likes and what's more convenient for you.

Automatic updates of firmware to the laser system when you update your driver: That's nice but in reality, how many updates are needed a year? I say 2-4 at best. Unless your machine has a program that is linked to the manufacturer that automatically downloads new drivers from their website; installs it for you; loads the latest firmware and all done during a time of night that you can dictate, I don't believe it's all that special.

One downside to having jobs/memory motherboard all powered/controlled by the PC is what happens if you disconnect the USB or Ethernet port? What happens if your PC loses power?

The "save on the fly while tweaking" feature sounds pretty nice but I imagine there's alot of: look at the lasering, go to the PC, adjust power/speed, go back to laser, go back to PC. Oops, I just spilled my coffee.

My biased opinion of course but something that should be considered without conviction.

[Lee DeRaud]

One downside to having jobs/memory motherboard all powered/controlled by the PC is what happens if you disconnect the USB or Ethernet port?Why on earth would you ever do something like that? I freely admit my multitask-fu is weaker than it used to be, but I generally don't do "maintenance" activities on the computer while I'm running the laser.

What happens if your PC loses power?
Where I live, power outages aren't that selective: if the computer loses power, so does the laser, the exhaust fan, the lights, A/C, everything. (And a UPS big enough to keep the laser and exhaust system running wouldn't care whether the computer was turned on or not.)

[Scott Shepherd]

The "save on the fly while tweaking" feature sounds pretty nice but I imagine there's alot of: look at the lasering, go to the PC, adjust power/speed, go back to laser, go back to PC. Oops, I just spilled my coffee.

My biased opinion of course but something that should be considered without conviction.

My information is based on personal experience of someone who runs a lot of 1 off jobs and I've used both types. If you haven't used the one that runs off of a PC, then don't be so quick to judge it.

I can tell you without question that this system has saved me a lot of material and a lot of time. As I've said before, after running a system that uses job control software that's interactive with the laser, I'd never go back. That's from a user standpoint.

There is no "going back to the computer", that's my point exactly. With this system, if I'm AT the laser and I tweak something, then it's automatically saved in the job file (on the computer). However, with the machines you represent Peck, if I tweak it on the fly, then those changes are lost when the machine is turned off, and I DO have to go back to the computer and save those changes and I WILL be going back and forth to the machine and spilling my coffee ;) So it's LESS work, which is why I say it's saved me time, and time=money.

Don't knock it until you try it. I have no need to convince anyone it's a better system, I just prefer to offer up my experiences with both systems (which I have used both of). If you like the buffer system, good for you, but it's like saying your favorite ice cream is vanilla when you've never tried chocolate :)

[Joe Pelonio]

I do very few one-off jobs, and that may be why I cannot identify with the
situation that Scott describes.

If the settings are off, it seems that you would need to start over. For example, not enough power, the engraving is not deep enough to penetrate the the surface color, so you have to go over it again. I'd stop, change settings on the computer, resend it and rerun from the start.

With normal, regularly used materials I have the settings listed in table form, but most are also in my head. For anything odd, I will include it in a note on the Corel file, so that I see it as soon as I open the file next time.

Scott, is there some kind of intermediate software that saves the settings
to the Corel file?

I do appreciate having the job in the buffer and not requiring the computer to continue and re-run. With most of my jobs being many of the same thing
I can go on and do other work on the computer, some programs might suck up a lot of memory or even require a re-boot while the laser is still busy.

[Scott Shepherd]

Joe, nothing is saved to Corel, there's a Job Control program that is the bridge between the computer and the laser. When you make all the settings in your driver and send it, it goes to the Job Control Software. From there, it's stored. I can see every job I have ran and the exact settings at which I ran it. I don't need to save every job or material manually. So I have this running, live database that's updated by the machine. There seems to be a misunderstanding that you run the laser "from" the computer. The machine has a control panel with an LCD where you run the machine from. From the control panel, you can access any job you have in your database. So just sitting at the machine, you can pull up the job you ran last month that you have another order for. So instead of the actual machine only having the latest info in the buffer, from the machine you have access to all your files WITHOUT having to resend it from the computer. I haven't explained it very well and it did appear that you run the machine FROM the computer, but that's not how it works.

Of course, on the computer, you can open up the job control program and you actually see the table, the rulers, and all the buttons that are on the machine, so you can, in fact, sit at the machine and run the machine. That's handy for me sometimes, as I tend to turn the machine on, put the material in, and then sit at my computer. So when I load the job, I can hit the start button on my computer, and not have to get up and hit the actual button on the machine. No big deal there, but it works well for me.

The powerful part that I like is when I do tweak settings, they are automatically saved back to the database so I don't have to go back to the computer and "resend" anything. It's all automatic.

You really need to see it work. It's very slick.

[Joe Pelonio]

Thanks, Scott, that explains it a lot better.

[Brian Robison]

Scott, didn't you say once that it also gives you the cycle time? If so, can it do that before a job is run the first time or do you need to run a job one time first?

[Scott Shepherd]

Scott, didn't you say once that it also gives you the cycle time? If so, can it do that before a job is run the first time or do you need to run a job one time first?

Yes, for every job you ran, it actually stores that info in the database, so you can see the run time of every job you have ran. It also has an "estimate" feature, which I take a little issue with. It's more of an emulator, not an estimator, as the machine has to be turned on, and it's actually running the job in some sped up form. The machine isn't moving, but it has to be on. So I consider that more of a job emulator rather than an estimator, but that's splitting hairs.

It's not like you can plug a shape from corel in and it'll spit out an estimate. You have to set the correct settings and then send it over, click on "Estimate" and it does a virtual run of the job, which gives a very accurate cycle time. I've found it to be very accurate, but I admit, I don't use it very often. It takes too long in some cases. If you have a complex project or a table full of graphics that will take 45 minutes to run, it can take 15 minutes to cycle through the "estimate". In my case, it's usually a one off, so I'd rather apply the time to the job and just get it done, but every once in a while I'll get a larger job, or quote one, and I'll use it then. All depends on what you're doing and how you use your laser, I suppose.

[Peck Sidara]

Lee, my comments aren't in the literal sense. Yes, one wouldn't typically go unplugging, plugging, installing/unstalling programs, partitioning hard drives etc. all while running jobs to your laser. My comments are more about a master/slave dependency on the PC for power & control of your laser system.

When you lose power in Colorado, It's pretty much the same as losing power in California. My power point is system crashes, Windows locking up etc. Or does that never happen with Windows based OS's in California.

Steve, Your experience with the different laser systems makes you a good source of information for comparison. There's no knocking that and like most everyone here, it's appreciated.

I was under the impression that all controls are done at the PC and not the laser. I now see that you've clearly stated how it works. Good deal.

Like vanilla and chocolate ice cream, both can be equally as good, unless you're lactose intolerant but I guess there are options there too. The main point in my original posting was:


I think there are pros and cons to both methods. None of which are superior to another and is dependent upon your likes and what's more convenient for you.


That's all guys, not hating, not knocking. Just sharing my opinion like everyone else.

[Lee DeRaud]

My power point is system crashes, Windows locking up etc. Or does that never happen with Windows based OS's in California.Dunno about California in general, but it's literally never happened on the machine connected to my laser.

The key concept here is that I consider the laser and the computer to be a single integrated system, and I treat it that way: it's about as clean a Windows installation as you'll ever encounter, with nothing running that isn't actually required to feed the laser. Even (most of) my Corel work is done on the (newer/faster) machine in the other room, which has the scanners, graphics tablet, big LCD, and the rest of the goodies attached to it.

Overkill? Probably, but a decent computer dedicated to driving the laser is trivially cheap compared to the laser anyway, so why not?